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Will these work with Z?

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  • tv175
    In the latest Micro-Mark catalog, I came across the Basic Train Engineer . This is a hand-held radio-control train throttle with a receiver you place between
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 4, 2002
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      In the latest Micro-Mark catalog, I came across the "Basic Train
      Engineer". This is a hand-held radio-control train throttle with a
      receiver you place between your power pack and the track. You set
      your power pack at full power, and then the receiver adjusts the power
      that goes from your power pack to the track to control your train
      speed.

      A Web search led me to Aristo Craft Trains / Crest Electronics, which
      make the Basic Train Engineer and a full-featured version called the
      Train Engineer. Aristo Craft specializes in G and other large scales,
      which means they cater to folks who need massive amounts of track
      power. But since you connect your own power pack, would these units
      (Train Engineer and/or Basic Train Engineer) work safely & effectively
      at Z power levels? It would be great if they did, especially with the
      momentum features they have.

      Here are the URLs.

      http://www.aristocraft.com/catalog/crest/trainengineer/index.html

      http://www.aristocraft.com/catalog/crest/trainengineer/whitepaper/inde
      x.html

      Does anybody on the list have experience with these units? If one of
      the resident electronics wizards in the group would care to
      comment....

      Thanks,

      -- Andy Hunting
    • jeremypbrandon
      ... I have no first-hand experience of this product but I have read the web-site you gave links to. The systems look very good for what they was designed for:
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 5, 2002
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        --- In z_scale@y..., "tv175" <zscale@r...> wrote:
        > In the latest Micro-Mark catalog, I came across the "Basic Train
        > Engineer". This is a hand-held radio-control train throttle with a
        > receiver you place between your power pack and the track.

        I have no first-hand experience of this product but I have read the
        web-site you gave links to. The systems look very good for what they
        was designed for: G- and HO-scale. But I am not sure you will be very
        happy using them for Z. I guess it would be possible to limit the
        output to 10 or 8 volts, but the receiver/controller produces either
        pure-DC or high-frequency pulses (25K Hertz). I have never managed to
        get the little Z-motors to start smoothly with pure-DC, and I have
        just tested a 25K Hz lash-up which was no better. However I have used
        a 10K Hz system for HO and I know it works. Z-motors are very
        different from the larger scales! I therefore do not change my
        opinion: the only way to coax the little Z-motors to start (and run)
        slowly is to give them short pulses at 25 Hz. The "Basic Train
        Engineer" does not do that, so I think it is not suitable for Z-scale.

        I am sure someone will disagree with me, but I stick by my view.
        Jeremy.
      • Helmut Paule
        ... From: jeremypbrandon To: Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 9:14 AM Subject: [z_scale] Re: Will these work
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 5, 2002
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: jeremypbrandon <Jeremy.Brandon@...>
          To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 9:14 AM
          Subject: [z_scale] Re: Will these work with Z?

          Hi Z Modeler,

          I agree with Jeremy,

          I use in the last 4 Years the MCR Railpower 1300
          it outputs half-wave DC, rectified AC without a Capacitor.

          The MCR starts to output 30 Hz (60 Hz) where every second wave is
          missing.
          As I increase Power to the Motor, the missing wave is added.

          I will try 25 Hz and see if it makes the 3 or 5 pole Maerklin Motors
          run better.
          It may takes me a couple of weeks before I can post results!
          I try half and square wave's. I have a scope so I can see the waveforms
          +.

          For the Guys who dont know Hz it is cycle/second
          USA and Canada has 60 Hz, Germany/Europ has 50 Hz.

          "Z" Greetings
          Helmut



          > --- In z_scale@y..., "tv175" <zscale@r...> wrote:
          > > In the latest Micro-Mark catalog, I came across the "Basic Train
          > > Engineer". This is a hand-held radio-control train throttle with a
          > > receiver you place between your power pack and the track.
          >
          > I have no first-hand experience of this product but I have read the
          > web-site you gave links to. The systems look very good for what they
          > was designed for: G- and HO-scale. But I am not sure you will be very
          > happy using them for Z. I guess it would be possible to limit the
          > output to 10 or 8 volts, but the receiver/controller produces either
          > pure-DC or high-frequency pulses (25K Hertz). I have never managed to
          > get the little Z-motors to start smoothly with pure-DC, and I have
          > just tested a 25K Hz lash-up which was no better. However I have used
          > a 10K Hz system for HO and I know it works. Z-motors are very
          > different from the larger scales! I therefore do not change my
          > opinion: the only way to coax the little Z-motors to start (and run)
          > slowly is to give them short pulses at 25 Hz. The "Basic Train
          > Engineer" does not do that, so I think it is not suitable for Z-scale.
          >
          > I am sure someone will disagree with me, but I stick by my view.
          > Jeremy.
          >
          >
          >
          > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • jeremypbrandon
          ... Thank you! ... Full-wave rectified 60Hz AC gives 120 pulses per second, half-wave gives 60 pulses per second (because the half-wave rectifier ignores the
          Message 4 of 4 , Apr 5, 2002
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            --- In z_scale@y..., "Helmut Paule" <hpaule@t...> wrote:
            > I agree with Jeremy,

            Thank you!


            > I use in the last 4 Years the MCR Railpower 1300
            > it outputs half-wave DC, rectified AC without a Capacitor.
            > The MCR starts to output 30 Hz (60 Hz) where every second wave is
            > missing.
            > As I increase Power to the Motor, the missing wave is added.

            Full-wave rectified 60Hz AC gives 120 pulses per second, half-wave
            gives 60 pulses per second (because the half-wave rectifier ignores
            the negative pulses, and the full-wave turns them positive). The
            Märklin controllers try to do the same as your MCR, except there are
            only 14 steps in each direction and the first few steps are too
            course.

            > I will try 25 Hz and see if it makes the 3 or 5 pole
            > Maerklin Motors run better.

            You need to adjust the pulse width very carefully: each motor has its
            own prefered width, just wide enough to push the motor round
            one "notch" (60 or 36 degrees) - try 3mS to start with.

            I use this principle in my controller built around a little micro-
            computer, measuring the motor emf in the gaps as feedback to adjust
            the pulse width and frequency. It needs quite a complicated program!!

            Good luck. Jeremy.
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