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Maerklin Transformer: 8 or 10 V DC?

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  • malleus12345
    I m the guy who was asking about my locomotives burning up. Bill Kronenberger and Greg (Wild Zontar) said to make sure that the transformer is only putting out
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 9, 2002
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      I'm the guy who was asking about my locomotives burning up.
      Bill Kronenberger and Greg (Wild Zontar) said to make
      sure that the transformer is only putting out 8 V.
      I've done some investigation and have some questions.

      The Maerklin track plan book (Gleisanlagen-Buch) p. 8 (I can
      read the German original) says that the transformer
      No. 6727 is supposed to output up to 8 V DC. It gives the 8 V figure
      in 3 places at least.

      I have two USA 6727 transformers (110 V, not 220 V).
      It says on the front cover that it goes
      up to 10 V on the 0-B terminals. Both measure 10 V DC
      at the output when the transformer is turned up all the way.

      Gee, I naively bought these two transformers that are
      clearly marked Maerklin mini-club. One came in a Z gauge
      starter set. Am I only supposed to turn these up to 8 V?
      Or are locomotives exported into the USA tweaked to run up to
      10 V?

      Thank you in advance!
    • Greg Elmassian
      I am not an authority, but MT engines are good for 10v, so maybe Marklin wanted to make a transformer to do both... Sounds like a bad plan though, they warn
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 9, 2002
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        I am not an authority, but MT engines are good for 10v, so maybe
        Marklin wanted to make a transformer to do both...

        Sounds like a bad plan though, they warn you not to go over 8v, then
        produce a product that does...

        hmm...

        I would guess that the 10v and the combination of your statement that you
        like to run your trains fast, and the 4 (I think) burned up locos are all
        a very congruent story...

        Greg

        -----Original Message-----
        From: malleus12345 [mailto:zscale@...]
        Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 4:39 PM
        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [z_scale] Maerklin Transformer: 8 or 10 V DC?


        I'm the guy who was asking about my locomotives burning up.
        Bill Kronenberger and Greg (Wild Zontar) said to make
        sure that the transformer is only putting out 8 V.
        I've done some investigation and have some questions.

        The Maerklin track plan book (Gleisanlagen-Buch) p. 8 (I can
        read the German original) says that the transformer
        No. 6727 is supposed to output up to 8 V DC. It gives the 8 V figure
        in 3 places at least.

        I have two USA 6727 transformers (110 V, not 220 V).
        It says on the front cover that it goes
        up to 10 V on the 0-B terminals. Both measure 10 V DC
        at the output when the transformer is turned up all the way.

        Gee, I naively bought these two transformers that are
        clearly marked Maerklin mini-club. One came in a Z gauge
        starter set. Am I only supposed to turn these up to 8 V?
        Or are locomotives exported into the USA tweaked to run up to
        10 V?

        Thank you in advance!
      • ted_lamar@peoplesoft.com
        This is of great concern to me as I have just added my first Maerklin locomotives to my roster. I have been using two 110V 6727 s to run my MicroTrains locos.
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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          This is of great concern to me as I have just added my first Maerklin
          locomotives to my roster. I have been using two 110V 6727's to run my
          MicroTrains locos. Fortunately, I haven't put my Maerklins on the track
          yet. I will measure the voltage tomorrow on both units and report here.

          If, indeed, the 6727 tops out at 10V, with the all ready very short 'less
          than 180 degree?' motion, it will be reduced to practically nothing.

          Has anyone tried the "externally modified (by MT) MRC" units? Are they
          just normal 12 v powerpaks that have a sticker on them indicating where not
          to turn past? Similar to what it sounds like my 6727's will become....

          Thanks,
          T

          >I have two USA 6727 transformers (110 V, not 220 V).
          >It says on the front cover that it goes
          >up to 10 V on the 0-B terminals. Both measure 10 V DC
          >at the output when the transformer is turned up all the way.
        • Greg Elmassian
          I have 2 of the MT transformers... they are 12v originally... there seems to be an additional mechanical stop inside that limits the output to 10v, and the
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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            I have 2 of the MT transformers... they are 12v originally... there seems
            to be an additional mechanical "stop" inside that limits the output to 10v,
            and the new added-on sticker surrounding the knob has markings at 10v
            and 8v...

            the 8v marking says "8v Stop here when using Marklin locomotives"

            greg

            -----Original Message-----
            From: ted_lamar@... [mailto:ted_lamar@...]
            Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 12:26 AM
            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [z_scale] Maerklin Transformer: 8 or 10 V DC?



            This is of great concern to me as I have just added my first Maerklin
            locomotives to my roster. I have been using two 110V 6727's to run my
            MicroTrains locos. Fortunately, I haven't put my Maerklins on the track
            yet. I will measure the voltage tomorrow on both units and report here.

            If, indeed, the 6727 tops out at 10V, with the all ready very short 'less
            than 180 degree?' motion, it will be reduced to practically nothing.

            Has anyone tried the "externally modified (by MT) MRC" units? Are they
            just normal 12 v powerpaks that have a sticker on them indicating where not
            to turn past? Similar to what it sounds like my 6727's will become....

            Thanks,
            T
          • zbendtrack@aol.com
            ... The MicroTrains power pack is a stock MRC 1300 which has a new front panel placed over the old front panel. The new front panel has a projection in the
            Message 5 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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              "T":

              > Has anyone tried the "externally modified (by MT) MRC" units? Are they
              > just normal 12 v powerpaks that have a sticker on them indicating where not
              > to turn past?

              The MicroTrains power pack is a stock MRC 1300 which has a new front panel
              placed over the old front panel. The new front panel has a projection in the
              hole that surrounds the knob that prevents the knob from being turned past
              the 2:30pm (14:30) position. The knob rotation goes from 06:30 to 14:30
              rather than 06:30 to 17:30.

              That prevents the output from going into a region which would be dangerous to
              both MT and Marklin locomotives.

              For those who only want the "bottom line" here it is:

              A significant number of very notable (expert) members of this list have used
              MRC 1300 and 2800 power packs for a decade or more, and none have encountered
              any problems, period. At the National Train show last summer, manufacturers
              ran their advanced prototypes and production models right along side almost
              everything Marklin ever made on the giant layout for 3 days of continuous
              running off of a 2800, again no problems.

              Significant note: None of the above folks are known to me as "extremely
              fast" runners. No matter what "pack" they use, I doubt their locomotives
              have even seen anything over 7 volts RMS, and then only for short spurts of
              time. At 7 volts, a properly lubricated and maintained Marklin locomotive
              must be traveling at close to 250 scale mph or more. Almost triple the speed
              of the prototypes they represent.

              The only exceptions might be the ICE and other double-ended, double motor
              consists which still have all the diodes inside. Those internal diodes drop
              the voltage almost 2 volts before it ever reaches the motor. I would bet
              there is someone out there that runs them at close to 9 volts. Hopefully, we
              will hear from them.

              Very little has been posted in the thousands of emails in this list (I
              checked) about running trains at the maximum physical speed the locomotive
              motor can handle for a sustained period of time. While I personally cannot
              appreciate the sight of trains running at nearly 300 mph, I respect those
              that find it a rewarding experience and hope to learn from their experiments
              in high temperature motors. Some of their findings will, no doubt, assist me
              in discovering better ways to lubricate and maintain my fleet of 50 mph
              (tops) locomotives.

              Caution: No matter what pack you measure, be sure you have a load on the
              pack when the measurement is taken. An automobile stop light bulb (single
              contact type) is perfect. An unloaded pack will almost always show a much
              higher output without some kind of current draw across its output.

              For those that like math, more detailed info follows below.

              Bill Kronenberger
              Houston

              - - - - detailed folks only read below - - - -

              The 1300 (and 2800) is not a DC pack. Nor is it a "pulse" pack, either.
              When you look at it on an oscilloscope, the pack rectifies the 60 cycles per
              second output of its internal transformer into 120 sinusoidal "camel humps"
              per second. Then these waveforms are divided into 60 "odd" and 60 "even"
              humps each second by the computer circuits inside.

              As you turn the knob up, you begin to see tiny rounded humps start to appear
              on the oscilloscope in all the "odd" positions. Each hump is only about a
              volt. As the knob rotates up, these "odd" humps increase to 2 volts, 3
              volts, etc., tracking the knob position. The humps are always sinusoidal in
              shape. The "even" positions put out zero volts.

              At the high noon position of the knob, the "odd" humps have reached their
              maximum. Any further rotation of the knob continues the "odd" humps but
              starts to add "even" humps to the output. Again, the "even" humps put out 1
              volt, 2 volt, 3 volt, etc., tracking the position of the knob as it is turned
              up.

              At the 2:30 (14:30) position, the 1300 is putting out all the power a Marklin
              loco should ever see. On the 2800, that occurs at the 3:30 (15:30) position.
              At that point, there are very large "odd" humps and medium sized "even"
              humps on the oscilloscope face.

              At maximum knob position, both the "odd" and "even" humps are max'ed out. An
              oscilloscope shows the classic image of a full wave rectified signal without
              a filter capacitor following the rectifier. Any measurements taken with
              "affordable" meters would read correctly in RMS volts DC. Note: Measurement
              of any output below "full throttle" by an "affordable" meter would be
              meaningless in most cases. 95% of DVMs and analog movement meters do very
              poor jobs at measuring irregular waveforms.

              Someone at Microtrains who really likes math has "integrated" the "area under
              the curve" of this irregular waveform and determined the "effective RMS DC"
              power is 8 volts at the 2:30 (14:30) position for a 1300 pack. That means
              that a light bulb put across a perfect 8 volt battery, or, this complex
              waveform, would glow at the same level of brightness. I'll bet you vaguely
              remember your Integral Calculus now, don't you. <smile>

              The maximum height of the humps are 14.6v for the 1300 and 10.6v for the
              2800. Now, don't panic. Yes, this is in access of 8 volts, for sure. But
              the TIME these humps are over 8 volts is only a few thousands of a second.
              Its not enough TIME for excessive POWER to flow into the motor to overheat
              it. And remember that only the "odd" humps ever reach this level at the
              maximum Z scale position of the knob. The even humps are well below 5 volts
              at that point.

              The reason MRC does this (and others) is that this short burst of higher
              voltage "kicks" the armature of the motor and helps to overcome inertia,
              inductance, EMF, and good old mechanical friction that keeps a motor from
              being "responsive" like you want it to be. And it works.

              It should be noted that at "creep" speeds, no excessive voltages are applied
              by the 1300/2800. The "odd humps" are still well under 5 volts and the "even
              humps" are at zero. The motor is more responsive because of the missing
              "even" waveforms, and the "rattling" or "jarring" effect of humps occurring
              with "gaps" in between humps. Sort of like when you wife calls you to dinner
              for the 9th time, one minute apart. Lots of motivation to move. <grin>

              This is much different from "pulse" packs which use square waves and only
              change the frequency of occurrence or the width of the square waves. In
              those cases, the height of the waveform is always "excessive" in voltage.
              The idea is to use a sledge hammer on the motor to get it to do what you want
              (hot pulses). The trick is to only hit it every once in a while
              (milliseconds) so that it doesn't overheat and burn up. SOME combinations of
              Marklin motors and pulse packs work. SOME are fatal to the motor in seconds.
              I know of no one who has developed a matrix of packs and motors with "don't
              use" marked in some of the squares. You'd certainly burn up a lot of motors
              developing that chart. <ouch>

              Some folks will point out that DCC is a "pulse" pack when viewed from the
              motor. That is true. But the overvoltage pulses are not limited to 60 or
              120 times a second. If that were the case, the POWER contained in each pulse
              would be very harmful to the motor. It works in DCC because the pulses are
              extremely short and may occur up to 30,000 times a second. The POWER in a
              given pulse is not enough to cause overheating, even when the pulse is at 16
              volts or so.

              End of the Swiss Watch Factory story. By the way, what time is it? <smile>

              Bill Kronenberger
              Houston
            • Greg Elmassian
              Bill, the transformer sticker says to basically stop at 8v for Marklin... is this voltage your understanding of the upper limit for them? Mechanically, you can
              Message 6 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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                Bill, the transformer sticker says to basically stop at 8v
                for Marklin... is this voltage your understanding of the upper
                limit for them? Mechanically, you can turn the pack up to 10v...

                Greg

                -----Original Message-----
                From: zbendtrack@... [mailto:zbendtrack@...]
                Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 8:44 AM
                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [z_scale] Maerklin Transformer: 8 or 10 V DC?

                >>>>>>>>>>>>snip

                The MicroTrains power pack is a stock MRC 1300 which has a new front panel
                placed over the old front panel. The new front panel has a projection in
                the
                hole that surrounds the knob that prevents the knob from being turned past
                the 2:30pm (14:30) position.

                That prevents the output from going into a region which would be dangerous
                to
                both MT and Marklin locomotives.

                >>>>>>>> snip

                Bill Kronenberger
                Houston
              • Robert Allbritton
                Folks, More fuel for the fire: http://www.z220.com/Magazine/Fall_1997/volts/8_or_10_volts_.html also note that I wrote that back in 1997 - which shows you how
                Message 7 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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                  Folks,

                  More fuel for the fire:

                  http://www.z220.com/Magazine/Fall_1997/volts/8_or_10_volts_.html

                  also note that I wrote that back in 1997 - which shows you how long this
                  debate has been going on.

                  Best,
                  -Rob

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Greg Elmassian [mailto:greg@...]
                  Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 3:36 PM
                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [z_scale] Maerklin Transformer: 8 or 10 V DC?


                  Bill, the transformer sticker says to basically stop at 8v
                  for Marklin... is this voltage your understanding of the upper
                  limit for them? Mechanically, you can turn the pack up to 10v...

                  Greg

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: zbendtrack@... [mailto:zbendtrack@...]
                  Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 8:44 AM
                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [z_scale] Maerklin Transformer: 8 or 10 V DC?

                  >>>>>>>>>>>>snip

                  The MicroTrains power pack is a stock MRC 1300 which has a new front panel
                  placed over the old front panel. The new front panel has a projection in
                  the
                  hole that surrounds the knob that prevents the knob from being turned past
                  the 2:30pm (14:30) position.

                  That prevents the output from going into a region which would be dangerous
                  to
                  both MT and Marklin locomotives.

                  >>>>>>>> snip

                  Bill Kronenberger
                  Houston





                  "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • Greg Elmassian
                  Well, I d say prudence would suggest 8 is safe... I do try to keep the speed under 250 miles per hour on most main lines ;-) Rob, do you have the exact link to
                  Message 8 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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                    Well, I'd say prudence would suggest 8 is safe...

                    I do try to keep the speed under 250 miles per hour on most
                    main lines ;-)

                    Rob, do you have the exact link to the original German text?

                    Greg

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Robert Allbritton [mailto:robert@...]
                    Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 12:39 PM
                    To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [z_scale] Marklin Transformer: 8 or 10 V DC?


                    Folks,

                    More fuel for the fire:

                    http://www.z220.com/Magazine/Fall_1997/volts/8_or_10_volts_.html

                    also note that I wrote that back in 1997 - which shows you how long this
                    debate has been going on.

                    Best,
                    -Rob
                  • Robert Allbritton
                    Greg, Look at: http://www.marklin.de/service/ about 2/3 down the page. The paragraph heading is: 67011 mini-club-Fahrgerat Best, -Rob PS: Bill K. summary
                    Message 9 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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                      Greg,

                      Look at:

                      http://www.marklin.de/service/

                      about 2/3 down the page. The paragraph heading is:
                      "67011 mini-club-Fahrgerat"

                      Best,
                      -Rob

                      PS: Bill K. summary (epic tale?) is one of the best I have seen on the
                      subject, and right on target. Bottom line is that there are no hard rules on
                      this max voltage thing (ok ok - probably 12 volts is way to much) but I have
                      seen more motors burnt up due to improper lubrication than too much voltage.
                      Keep the heat down and everything will be OK. Your "good" runners will
                      probably take more volts than "poor" runners. Want to be safe? I don't see
                      how 8 volts will kill anything (except a loco that is locked up due to old
                      oil that has solidified) see! I said there were no hard rules! (grin)

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Greg Elmassian [mailto:greg@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 4:16 PM
                      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [z_scale] Marklin Transformer: 8 or 10 V DC?


                      Well, I'd say prudence would suggest 8 is safe...

                      I do try to keep the speed under 250 miles per hour on most
                      main lines ;-)

                      Rob, do you have the exact link to the original German text?

                      Greg

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Robert Allbritton [mailto:robert@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 12:39 PM
                      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [z_scale] Marklin Transformer: 8 or 10 V DC?


                      Folks,

                      More fuel for the fire:

                      http://www.z220.com/Magazine/Fall_1997/volts/8_or_10_volts_.html

                      also note that I wrote that back in 1997 - which shows you how long this
                      debate has been going on.

                      Best,
                      -Rob



                      "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • Robert Allbritton
                      Make that: http://www.marklin.de/service/tips.html Sorry for the double post guys...
                      Message 10 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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                        Make that:

                        http://www.marklin.de/service/tips.html

                        Sorry for the double post guys...
                      • zbendtrack@aol.com
                        ... I can only make recommendations based on person experience (heating), and the reported experiences of folks I trust a great deal: Stay under 8 volts pure
                        Message 11 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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                          Greg:

                          > Bill, the transformer sticker says to basically stop at 8v
                          > for Marklin... is this voltage your understanding of the upper
                          > limit for them? Mechanically, you can turn the pack up to 10v...

                          I can only make recommendations based on person experience (heating), and the
                          reported experiences of folks I trust a great deal: Stay under 8 volts pure
                          DC. For years, Marklin documentation said the same thing. MicroTrains says
                          10 volts on their locomotives, but puts a warning in the box to avoid pulse
                          power packs.

                          The only possible exception to my "statement" would be the ICE and other
                          double motor/double motor consists which STILL have the full set of diodes in
                          them (i.e., the 2 volt internal drop before the motor gets the track voltage).

                          This all assumes you have "sufficient" wiring between the power pack and the
                          locomotive. You can loose a volt or two with undersized wiring, poor
                          connections and even through the rails (if you don't provide power
                          connections to the track at regular intervals).

                          Lastly, determining the "effective" limit of highly processed waveforms
                          (pulse, PWM, irregular waveform) packs is extremely difficult for folks who
                          do not own an electronic laboratory full of equipment.

                          Use common sense. If you want to "try" something, just take the shell off
                          the loco. Run it for 30 seconds. Feel the motor with your fingers. If it's
                          not hot, run it for another 30 seconds. Keep doing that in 30 second
                          increments for several minutes. If it is gets really hot, then don't do it
                          anymore. If you can run it for 30 minutes without excessive heat, put the
                          shell back on, and call the combination of power pack and loco as
                          "successful."

                          Always do it with the shell off. By the time an overheated motor gets a
                          plastic or metal shell hot enough to feel, the game going on in the motor
                          will be "over" and you get to try installing one of the new 5 pole motors as
                          a replacement.

                          Hope this helps.
                          Bill Kronenberger
                          Houston
                        • jmac_han
                          Excellent advice, Bill. Thanks for your detailed explanations of the operating behaviour of model railroading transistor throttles. They are now enshrined in
                          Message 12 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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                            Excellent advice, Bill. Thanks for your detailed explanations of
                            the operating behaviour of model railroading transistor throttles.
                            They are now enshrined in our FAQ for easy consultation.

                            From the personal experience file: I ran a double-headed
                            Micro-Trains F7A-B lashup for a total of 16 hours last weekend
                            at the Amherst show in West Springfield powered by an MRC
                            Trainpower 5 throttle.

                            Believe it or not MRC had the table next to mine at the show.
                            They had a technician and an inside sales rep at their table
                            demonstrating their new line of throttles for large scale and
                            Lionel.

                            The technician observed that the Trainpower 5 was one of their
                            best power packs but that it was produced just as the electronics
                            revolution in throttles was taking place in the marketplace. As a
                            result the Trainpower 5 was only produced for 3 years ending in
                            1995. Too bad, it really is great. The locos ran very well even at
                            low speed and showed no sign of over heating.

                            Several newcomers to Z scale stopped by the MRC table and I
                            actually asked the sales rep to recommend a throttle for Z scale
                            to the visitors. I am sorry that I did not make a note of the answer
                            since I was too busy with the crowds. I'll try to see if they can
                            supply an answer via email.

                            As you can tell from my anecdote on the subject of throttles I tend
                            to use MRC brand packs. I have never paid any attention to the
                            throttle knob position or the dial markings. The only thing that I
                            watch for is the "speed" of the loco on the rails. I try to keep
                            things running as slowly as possible without stalling. Many
                            modellers tend to run their trains too fast in scale terms. I like
                            to watch the speed that rail cars pass a fixed point on the layout.
                            I'll slow the train down until the percieved speed is close to what
                            I have observed on the real thing.

                            The crowds seem to like the trains moving at a more realistic
                            speed as well. Well most of the time, there is an occasional slot
                            car enthusiast who wants to see how fast the trains will go. My
                            answer is somewhere in the vicinity of 400 miles per hour but
                            that the speed limit is 75 mph.

                            Cheers,
                            Jeffrey MacHan

                            > Use common sense. If you want to "try" something, just take
                            the shell off
                            > the loco. Run it for 30 seconds. Feel the motor with your
                            fingers. If it's
                            > not hot, run it for another 30 seconds. Keep doing that in 30
                            second
                            > increments for several minutes. If it is gets really hot, then
                            don't do it
                            > anymore. If you can run it for 30 minutes without excessive
                            heat, put the
                            > shell back on, and call the combination of power pack and loco
                            as
                            > "successful."
                            >
                            > Hope this helps.
                            > Bill Kronenberger
                            > Houston
                          • uptoolateny
                            ... I tend to do the same thing, I have a link on my site: http://www.ztrains.com/pages/links.html that is kind if interesting for determining speed. If you
                            Message 13 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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                              --- In z_scale@y..., "jmac_han" <jmac_han@h...> wrote:

                              > "I'll slow the train down until the percieved speed is close to what I have observed on the real thing. "


                              I tend to do the same thing, I have a link on my site:

                              http://www.ztrains.com/pages/links.html

                              that is kind if interesting for determining speed. If you click on the link titled "Z Scale Speed Calculator", you can input a few numbers to determine
                              speed / distances covered.

                              John
                              http://www.ztrains.com
                              Exploring Basic Z Scale Ideas
                            • Dieter_Mac_Nolte@t-online.de
                              ... Dear Bill, you are right: Who is running locos at full speed? For me, it is always an eyesore, seeing trains running at high speed on layouts. You see this
                              Message 14 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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                                zbendtrack@... schrieb:
                                >
                                > Significant note: None of the above folks are known to me as "extremely
                                > fast" runners. No matter what "pack" they use, I doubt their locomotives
                                > have even seen anything over 7 volts RMS, and then only for short spurts of
                                > time. At 7 volts, a properly lubricated and maintained Marklin locomotive
                                > must be traveling at close to 250 scale mph or more. Almost triple the speed
                                > of the prototypes they represent.
                                >
                                > The only exceptions might be the ICE and other double-ended, double motor
                                > consists which still have all the diodes inside. Those internal diodes drop
                                > the voltage almost 2 volts before it ever reaches the motor. I would bet
                                > there is someone out there that runs them at close to 9 volts. Hopefully, we
                                > will hear from them.

                                Dear Bill,

                                you are right: Who is running locos at full speed? For me, it is always an
                                eyesore, seeing trains running at high speed on layouts. You see this even
                                on the exhibition layouts of Maerklin!
                                Yes, at this speed, you have no stops or sputtering of trains. But is it worth
                                the effort?
                                No! Keep tracks and locos clean and run locos slowly and smoothly, then you
                                enjoy your jewels more. And you have not to worry on too high voltage.
                                Well, I may now follow now political correctness when I state: When you have to
                                put on to your layout a voltage of more than 8 V to get your trains running,
                                then something is wrong with the maintenance or cónstruction of the layout and
                                rolling stock.

                                The other day I heard at a fair the comment of people approaching a scale Z
                                layout: Oh, this is the scale where the mad cockroachs are running around.

                                I do not like this comments! We have to fight these prejudsices, they do harm
                                our hobby!

                                Regards

                                Dieter


                                Dieter W. Nolte
                                E-Mail Dieter_Mac_Nolte@...
                              • SecondhandMarklin.com
                                Hi Gang, I will run 2 good size trains (a lok plus 5 to 9 cars) on one track (about 60 feet in length) and a very seldom run more then 6vdc. Anything greater
                                Message 15 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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                                  Hi Gang,

                                  I will run 2 good size trains (a lok plus 5 to 9 cars) on one track
                                  (about 60 feet in length) and a very seldom run more then 6vdc.
                                  Anything greater then 6vdc makes the trains go much too fast. At times
                                  I will run trains on as litle as 3.5vdc. How to I know this? The
                                  output of my power supply is metered and I have also metered the track
                                  at various points to verify the voltage reading.

                                  I think if you use more feed points in your layout, about 1 feed point
                                  every 3 to 4 feet, you will not need that much voltage and your trains
                                  will run smother. Remember, power feed points on a layout are like
                                  dollars...you can never have too many ;-))

                                  Bill

                                  =====
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                                • Greg Elmassian
                                  Thanks.. went there, did a cursory translation... seems that 10v is fine, but seems 12v will make more heat... could not quite make sense of the measuring
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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                                    Thanks.. went there, did a cursory translation... seems that 10v is fine,
                                    but seems 12v will make more heat... could not quite make sense of the
                                    measuring reference, seems like they were inferring that 12v packs might
                                    have higher voltage due to tolerances (manufacturing) and that might not
                                    be good... also seemed to be a reference to measuring the actual voltage
                                    applied to the motor or loco being the right measurement, not what is
                                    coming out of the pack.. although at these low currents, I suspect the
                                    voltage drop between the transformer and the loco itself is small..

                                    Greg

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Robert Allbritton [mailto:robert@...]
                                    Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 1:27 PM
                                    To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [z_scale] Marklin Transformer: 8 or 10 V DC?


                                    Make that:

                                    http://www.marklin.de/service/tips.html
                                  • Greg Elmassian
                                    Bill, I am in complete agreement with what you have said... one question, does the power to an ICE train effectively pass through 1 or 2 diodes? Usually the
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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                                      Bill, I am in complete agreement with what you have said...

                                      one question, does the power to an ICE train effectively
                                      pass through 1 or 2 diodes? Usually the voltage drop on
                                      diodes is .7 volts.. but then again, there are different
                                      types of diodes..

                                      Greg

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: zbendtrack@... [mailto:zbendtrack@...]
                                      Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 1:32 PM
                                      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [z_scale] Maerklin Transformer: 8 or 10 V DC?


                                      Greg:

                                      >>>> snip

                                      The only possible exception to my "statement" would be the ICE and other
                                      double motor/double motor consists which STILL have the full set of diodes
                                      in
                                      them (i.e., the 2 volt internal drop before the motor gets the track
                                      voltage).

                                      >>> snip

                                      Bill Kronenberger
                                    • Bob Byrne
                                      ... I like to run my locos slow also as I do a lot of consist work. I set myself a task to pick up various carriages and trucks scattered about the layout and
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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                                        > Dear Bill,
                                        > .........
                                        > No! Keep tracks and locos clean and run locos slowly and smoothly, then you
                                        > enjoy your jewels more. And you have not to worry on too high voltage.

                                        I like to run my locos slow also as I do a lot of consist work. I set myself a task
                                        to pick up various carriages and trucks scattered about the layout and take
                                        them to a siding.
                                        I'd be very impressed if Marklin would release "low gear" kits for their locos,
                                        they are just too high at the moment. The slower I can run them the better.

                                        --
                                        Regards, Bob
                                      • zbendtrack@aol.com
                                        ... Two diodes. Bill K. Houston
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Feb 10, 2002
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                                          Greg:

                                          > one question, does the power to an ICE train effectively
                                          > pass through 1 or 2 diodes?

                                          Two diodes.

                                          Bill K.
                                          Houston
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