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Re: Modified 88836

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  • Sönke Löffler-von Gierke
    Well, I can see strange wires, and an engineer, and some light from the firebox. http://www.blueneptune.com/~kim/88836/88836-2.JPG Seems the light even shines
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 3, 2001
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      Well, I can see strange wires, and an engineer, and some light from
      the firebox. http://www.blueneptune.com/~kim/88836/88836-2.JPG
      Seems the light even shines when the engine is standing.
      http://www.blueneptune.com/~kim/88836/M88836-3.MPG
      And the blinking green diode beneath the tender doesn't look like
      standard, too.

      But: How is it done?

      Sönke

      --- In z_scale@y..., jcubbin@o... wrote:
      > Kim,
      >
      > This is really amazing work, could you post up some text describing
      exactly what was done? I can't stop watching the large video!
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > John
      > http://www.ztrains.com
      > Exploring Basic Z Scale Ideas
    • jmac_han@hotmail.com
      ... And the result is astounding. Flickering firebox glow, slow speed operation and rear tender lights (at least from what I saw in the hi- res MPEG) all run
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 3, 2001
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        --- In z_scale@y..., kim@b... wrote:
        > Folks,
        > After many months of modifying my 88836 here is the result.

        And the result is astounding. Flickering firebox glow, slow speed
        operation and rear tender lights (at least from what I saw in the hi-
        res MPEG) all run from a DZX121 decoder I imagine. When can you
        convert my locos? ;-)

        I'm curious to know what wires you used from the tender to the loco.
        They look thin enough to be commutator windings but what would I know.

        GREAT work, Kim.

        Cheers,
        Jeffrey MacHan
        Chief Imagineer
        Val Ease Central Railroad
      • kim@blueneptune.com
        Folks, Thanks for the complements. I had put in a few months of work in this loco I ll try to summarize all I can remember: 1) I first started with adding
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 3, 2001
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          Folks,
          Thanks for the complements. I had put in a few months of work
          in this loco I'll try to summarize all I can remember:
          1) I first started with adding tender pickup
          2) I used a DN142 Decoder which is full FX decoder. FX are the
          functions used for lighting that Digitrax claims "the ultimate in
          locomotive lighting which create realistic looking lighting effects"
          3) Added a lot of capacitors (1000uF) for better running (like a big
          flywheel)
          4) To compensate for all the added weight in the tender I added
          tungsten powder mixed with glue to the engine in the front and back,
          just above the motor. There was quite a bit of space to add weight in
          this loco.
          5) Added pick up on the wheels that did not have any in the loco
          6) The DN142 decoder has 4 outputs one for the front light one for the
          back of the tender and I had two more outputs so I used one for the
          fire box and the other to the lamp under the tender. I am not sure if
          that is really a light in the real loco at the tender, but it looked
          like one.

          The fire box: I used two of the Minatronics tiny lamps .75mm dia which
          is really small, perfect for this application. To install this lamp I
          filed the grove that is in the side of the motor on both sides and
          glued them in the grove. I then painted the top portion of it red and
          the bottom black.

          The light in the tender was the most challenging to add. I drilled
          two holes one from the top and one from the side so they meet. I then
          used a fiber optic 1mm dia (big one) with a white LED painted with
          yellow so it looks like a incandescent lamp. I then painted the inside
          with silver and black. After tinkering with it a bit it looks like
          the light comes from the concave surface and there are no lamps or
          fiber optic visible.

          7) I added two engineers on either side of the loco and one side
          waving his arm. The engineer you see in the picture has his arm
          broken, I just noticed it and need to fix it.
          8) Also added a couple of thin fiber optic cables to the back of the
          loco and connected it to a Yellow LED.
          Easy way to make this is to bring the fiber optic cable close to the
          soldering Iron and it melts the tip so it forms like a cone shape at
          the tip. Then you drill a hole where the fiberoptic goes and you push
          the cable flush.

          The wire that you see going from the tender to the loco is a gauge 36
          ~38 magnet wire. You will need 6~7 going from the tender to the loco
          for converting them to DCC. The technique I use to keep these wires
          neat is to use thin teflon tubes (sleeves from a teflon wire) glue two
          on top of the motor and drill two holes in the base of the tender
          parallel to the tracks and insert the teflon tubes through them so it
          has a nice conduit to run these wires. The reason I do this is once
          when I had a short circuit in the motor the wires heated up and melted
          the plastic in the tender where the wires came out, but with teflon it
          will not melt and keep the tender safe in a head on collision.

          A tip for using fiber optic cables, do not stick it with CA (super
          glue) it eats the fiber.
          All this is a little time consuming but once you see the loco
          performance you will feel it is worth it. Imagine a steam loco
          crawling across a double cross switch and never stalling?.

          Also those of you using Relco can your loco crawl across double slip
          turnouts without stalling? Just want to compare my loco performance
          after all this work.
          Kim



          --- In z_scale@y..., jmac_han@h... wrote:
          > --- In z_scale@y..., kim@b... wrote:
          > > Folks,
          > > After many months of modifying my 88836 here is the result.
          >
          > And the result is astounding. Flickering firebox glow, slow speed
          > operation and rear tender lights (at least from what I saw in the
          hi-
          > res MPEG) all run from a DZX121 decoder I imagine. When can you
          > convert my locos? ;-)
          >
          > I'm curious to know what wires you used from the tender to the loco.
          > They look thin enough to be commutator windings but what would I
          know.
          >
          > GREAT work, Kim.
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Jeffrey MacHan
          > Chief Imagineer
          > Val Ease Central Railroad
        • Robert Allbritton
          Kim, Very, very well done. I am impressed! Question: where in the electrical chain did you add the capacitors? After the decoder? Best place would be in-line
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 3, 2001
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            Kim,
            Very, very well done. I am impressed!

            Question: where in the electrical chain did you add the capacitors? After
            the decoder? Best place would be in-line with the decoder (let the decoder
            "see" the DCC signal, but have that full 1000uf to keep on functioning. That
            way you can have Back-EMF too)

            Best,
            -Rob

            -----Original Message-----
            From: kim@... [mailto:kim@...]
            Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 5:08 PM
            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [z_scale] Re: Modified 88836


            Folks,
            Thanks for the complements. I had put in a few months of work
            in this loco I'll try to summarize all I can remember:
            1) I first started with adding tender pickup
            2) I used a DN142 Decoder which is full FX decoder. FX are the
            functions used for lighting that Digitrax claims "the ultimate in
            locomotive lighting which create realistic looking lighting effects"
            3) Added a lot of capacitors (1000uF) for better running (like a big
            flywheel)
            4) To compensate for all the added weight in the tender I added
            tungsten powder mixed with glue to the engine in the front and back,
            just above the motor. There was quite a bit of space to add weight in
            this loco.
            5) Added pick up on the wheels that did not have any in the loco
            6) The DN142 decoder has 4 outputs one for the front light one for the
            back of the tender and I had two more outputs so I used one for the
            fire box and the other to the lamp under the tender. I am not sure if
            that is really a light in the real loco at the tender, but it looked
            like one.

            The fire box: I used two of the Minatronics tiny lamps .75mm dia which
            is really small, perfect for this application. To install this lamp I
            filed the grove that is in the side of the motor on both sides and
            glued them in the grove. I then painted the top portion of it red and
            the bottom black.

            The light in the tender was the most challenging to add. I drilled
            two holes one from the top and one from the side so they meet. I then
            used a fiber optic 1mm dia (big one) with a white LED painted with
            yellow so it looks like a incandescent lamp. I then painted the inside
            with silver and black. After tinkering with it a bit it looks like
            the light comes from the concave surface and there are no lamps or
            fiber optic visible.

            7) I added two engineers on either side of the loco and one side
            waving his arm. The engineer you see in the picture has his arm
            broken, I just noticed it and need to fix it.
            8) Also added a couple of thin fiber optic cables to the back of the
            loco and connected it to a Yellow LED.
            Easy way to make this is to bring the fiber optic cable close to the
            soldering Iron and it melts the tip so it forms like a cone shape at
            the tip. Then you drill a hole where the fiberoptic goes and you push
            the cable flush.

            The wire that you see going from the tender to the loco is a gauge 36
            ~38 magnet wire. You will need 6~7 going from the tender to the loco
            for converting them to DCC. The technique I use to keep these wires
            neat is to use thin teflon tubes (sleeves from a teflon wire) glue two
            on top of the motor and drill two holes in the base of the tender
            parallel to the tracks and insert the teflon tubes through them so it
            has a nice conduit to run these wires. The reason I do this is once
            when I had a short circuit in the motor the wires heated up and melted
            the plastic in the tender where the wires came out, but with teflon it
            will not melt and keep the tender safe in a head on collision.

            A tip for using fiber optic cables, do not stick it with CA (super
            glue) it eats the fiber.
            All this is a little time consuming but once you see the loco
            performance you will feel it is worth it. Imagine a steam loco
            crawling across a double cross switch and never stalling?.

            Also those of you using Relco can your loco crawl across double slip
            turnouts without stalling? Just want to compare my loco performance
            after all this work.
            Kim



            --- In z_scale@y..., jmac_han@h... wrote:
            > --- In z_scale@y..., kim@b... wrote:
            > > Folks,
            > > After many months of modifying my 88836 here is the result.
            >
            > And the result is astounding. Flickering firebox glow, slow speed
            > operation and rear tender lights (at least from what I saw in the
            hi-
            > res MPEG) all run from a DZX121 decoder I imagine. When can you
            > convert my locos? ;-)
            >
            > I'm curious to know what wires you used from the tender to the loco.
            > They look thin enough to be commutator windings but what would I
            know.
            >
            > GREAT work, Kim.
            >
            > Cheers,
            > Jeffrey MacHan
            > Chief Imagineer
            > Val Ease Central Railroad



            "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!


            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • kim@blueneptune.com
            Rob, To do this you have to remove the shrink wrap around the decoder. You will see four diodes (bridge rectifier) where two ends go to the track and the other
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 3, 2001
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              Rob,
              To do this you have to remove the shrink wrap around the decoder.
              You will see four diodes (bridge rectifier) where two ends go to the
              track and the other two go to a zener diode (used to protect the
              decoder against voltage spikes). The side of the diode that has the
              black line (cathode) is the +. You can add the capacitor across the
              diode, make sure cathode of the diode goes to the + of the capacitor.
              I use size 'D' 100uF 16V SMD Tantalum Caps. This cap is the max uF for
              size and voltage available. One can add ~6 to 15 in the tender
              depending on the size.

              Initially when I converted to DCC the performance of my steams was
              poorer than DC control till I added the caps. Even a single 10uF cap
              makes a big difference. The 10uF SMD caps are small enough to add to
              diesel locos. I have added more than 200uF cap to the crocodile I
              converted.

              Kim


              --- In z_scale@y..., "Robert Allbritton" <robert@p...> wrote:
              > Kim,
              > Very, very well done. I am impressed!
              >
              > Question: where in the electrical chain did you add the capacitors?
              After
              > the decoder? Best place would be in-line with the decoder (let the
              decoder
              > "see" the DCC signal, but have that full 1000uf to keep on
              functioning. That
              > way you can have Back-EMF too)
              >
              > Best,
              > -Rob
            • ngntw@mtco.com
              Kim, Would it be possible for you to post a picture of this installation somewhere? I d like to try adding caps to a decoder, but I d like to see a pic of it
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 4, 2001
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                Kim,
                Would it be possible for you to post a picture of this installation
                somewhere? I'd like to try adding caps to a decoder, but I'd like to see a pic
                of it before cutting into the decoder.
                Mike
                Quoting kim@...:

                > Rob,
                > To do this you have to remove the shrink wrap around the decoder.
                > You will see four diodes (bridge rectifier) where two ends go to the
                > track and the other two go to a zener diode (used to protect the
                > decoder against voltage spikes). The side of the diode that has the
                > black line (cathode) is the +. You can add the capacitor across the
                > diode, make sure cathode of the diode goes to the + of the capacitor.
                > I use size 'D' 100uF 16V SMD Tantalum Caps. This cap is the max uF for
                > size and voltage available. One can add ~6 to 15 in the tender
                > depending on the size.
                >
                > Initially when I converted to DCC the performance of my steams was
                > poorer than DC control till I added the caps. Even a single 10uF cap
                > makes a big difference. The 10uF SMD caps are small enough to add to
                > diesel locos. I have added more than 200uF cap to the crocodile I
                > converted.
                >
                > Kim
                >
                >
                > --- In z_scale@y..., "Robert Allbritton" <robert@p...> wrote:
                > > Kim,
                > > Very, very well done. I am impressed!
                > >
                > > Question: where in the electrical chain did you add the capacitors?
                > After
                > > the decoder? Best place would be in-line with the decoder (let the
                > decoder
                > > "see" the DCC signal, but have that full 1000uf to keep on
                > functioning. That
                > > way you can have Back-EMF too)
                > >
                > > Best,
                > > -Rob
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • kimvellore
                Mike, I have posted the image at http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Z_Scale_DCC/lst Kim ... installation ... see a pic ... decoder. ... the ... the ... the
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 4, 2001
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                  Mike,
                  I have posted the image at
                  http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Z_Scale_DCC/lst
                  Kim

                  --- In z_scale@y..., ngntw@m... wrote:
                  > Kim,
                  > Would it be possible for you to post a picture of this
                  installation
                  > somewhere? I'd like to try adding caps to a decoder, but I'd like to
                  see a pic
                  > of it before cutting into the decoder.
                  > Mike
                  > Quoting kim@b...:
                  >
                  > > Rob,
                  > > To do this you have to remove the shrink wrap around the
                  decoder.
                  > > You will see four diodes (bridge rectifier) where two ends go to
                  the
                  > > track and the other two go to a zener diode (used to protect the
                  > > decoder against voltage spikes). The side of the diode that has
                  the
                  > > black line (cathode) is the +. You can add the capacitor across
                  the
                  > > diode, make sure cathode of the diode goes to the + of the
                  capacitor.
                  > > I use size 'D' 100uF 16V SMD Tantalum Caps. This cap is the max uF
                  for
                  > > size and voltage available. One can add ~6 to 15 in the tender
                  > > depending on the size.
                  > >
                  > > Initially when I converted to DCC the performance of my steams
                  was
                  > > poorer than DC control till I added the caps. Even a single 10uF
                  cap
                  > > makes a big difference. The 10uF SMD caps are small enough to add
                  to
                  > > diesel locos. I have added more than 200uF cap to the crocodile I
                  > > converted.
                  > >
                  > > Kim
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In z_scale@y..., "Robert Allbritton" <robert@p...> wrote:
                  > > > Kim,
                  > > > Very, very well done. I am impressed!
                  > > >
                  > > > Question: where in the electrical chain did you add the
                  capacitors?
                  > > After
                  > > > the decoder? Best place would be in-line with the decoder (let
                  the
                  > > decoder
                  > > > "see" the DCC signal, but have that full 1000uf to keep on
                  > > functioning. That
                  > > > way you can have Back-EMF too)
                  > > >
                  > > > Best,
                  > > > -Rob
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
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