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Double slip turnout "handedness"

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  • Malcolm Kent Cleaveland
    Folks, In looking at the Rokuhan offerings at the Hobby Search website, the double slip turnouts come in two flavors, left handed and right handed. Just
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 22, 2013
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      Folks,

        In looking at the Rokuhan offerings at the Hobby Search website, the double slip turnouts come in two flavors, left handed and right handed.  Just looking at a double slip turnout, there does not seem (at least to the ignorant like me) that there is an obvious left or right handed approach to it.  So what am I missing?  Can anyone give me an understandable explanation that would allow me to incorporate one of these Rokuhan double slip turnouts into a layout without electrical problems?

      CheerZ,
        -- Malcolm Z


    • Alan Cox
      On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:31:34 +0000 ... The double slips are a shorter line crossing a longer line, which way around determines the handedness of them. It
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 22, 2013
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        On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:31:34 +0000
        Malcolm Kent Cleaveland <mcleavel@...> wrote:

        > Folks,
        >
        > In looking at the Rokuhan offerings at the Hobby Search website, the double slip turnouts come in two flavors, left handed and right handed. Just looking at a double slip turnout, there does not seem (at least to the ignorant like me) that there is an obvious left or right handed approach to it. So what am I missing? Can anyone give me an understandable explanation that would allow me to incorporate one of these Rokuhan double slip turnouts into a layout without electrical problems?

        The double slips are a shorter line crossing a longer line, which way
        around determines the "handedness" of them. It needs to be that way for
        the geometry to work and to allow for the fact that if you have one in
        something like a crossing between sets of straight lines the angled part
        needs to be longer than the straight part.

        Alan
      • BAZ
        Have a visual example of that? Jeff Sent from the road
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 22, 2013
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          Have a visual example of that?


          Jeff

          Sent 'from the road'

          On Nov 22, 2013, at 9:10 AM, Alan Cox <alan@...> wrote:

           

          On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:31:34 +0000
          Malcolm Kent Cleaveland <mcleavel@...> wrote:

          > Folks,
          >
          > In looking at the Rokuhan offerings at the Hobby Search website, the double slip turnouts come in two flavors, left handed and right handed. Just looking at a double slip turnout, there does not seem (at least to the ignorant like me) that there is an obvious left or right handed approach to it. So what am I missing? Can anyone give me an understandable explanation that would allow me to incorporate one of these Rokuhan double slip turnouts into a layout without electrical problems?

          The double slips are a shorter line crossing a longer line, which way
          around determines the "handedness" of them. It needs to be that way for
          the geometry to work and to allow for the fact that if you have one in
          something like a crossing between sets of straight lines the angled part
          needs to be longer than the straight part.

          Alan

        • Alan Cox
          On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:17:33 -0800 ... Think about three parallel lines with a switch on each outer one and a double slip in the middle for the crossing.
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 22, 2013
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            On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:17:33 -0800
            BAZ <sjbazman49@...> wrote:

            > Have a visual example of that?

            Think about three parallel lines with a switch on each outer one and a
            double slip in the middle for the crossing.
          • garthah
            then why is the 13 degree crossing not sold in left or right hand model as it is the same geometry and the short piece of track supplied with the crossing make
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 22, 2013
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              then why is the 13 degree crossing not sold in left or right hand model as it is the same geometry and the short piece of track supplied with the crossing make the connection for the geometry. but in the 13 degree crossing the short pieces of track are not trimmed while in the left and right double slip they are trimmed on different sides. I have asked the question of Rokuhan, it maybe that it relates to the power routing feature of the double slip when used with a standard turnout. Not sure but will copy Rokuhan's answer when I get it.   


              regards Garth.   



              ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <alan@...> wrote:

              On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:31:34 +0000
              Malcolm Kent Cleaveland <mcleavel@...> wrote:

              > Folks,
              >
              > In looking at the Rokuhan offerings at the Hobby Search website, the double slip turnouts come in two flavors, left handed and right handed. Just looking at a double slip turnout, there does not seem (at least to the ignorant like me) that there is an obvious left or right handed approach to it. So what am I missing? Can anyone give me an understandable explanation that would allow me to incorporate one of these Rokuhan double slip turnouts into a layout without electrical problems?

              The double slips are a shorter line crossing a longer line, which way
              around determines the "handedness" of them. It needs to be that way for
              the geometry to work and to allow for the fact that if you have one in
              something like a crossing between sets of straight lines the angled part
              needs to be longer than the straight part.

              Alan
            • Alan Cox
              On 22 Nov 2013 14:54:48 -0800 ... Because of the length differences needed as I said. Think carefully about how it fits together. For a left hand you need
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 22, 2013
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                On 22 Nov 2013 14:54:48 -0800
                <garth.a.hamilton@...> wrote:

                > then why is the 13 degree crossing not sold in left or right hand model as it is the same geometry and the short piece of track supplied with the crossing make the connection for the geometry. but in the 13 degree crossing the short pieces of track are not trimmed while in the left and right double slip they are trimmed on different sides. I have asked the question of Rokuhan, it maybe that it relates to the power routing feature of the double slip when used with a standard turnout. Not sure but will copy Rokuhan's answer when I get it.

                Because of the length differences needed as I said.

                Think carefully about how it fits together. For a "left hand" you need
                the short two tracks trimmed on one side, for a "right hand" you need the
                trimming the other way. In the Märklin case the geometry difference is in
                the point but in the Rokuhan case its in the 'cut' tracks - but you still
                have the handedness there.

                See the page on 1999 which explains this.

                http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10248856

                compare

                http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10248857
              • BAZ
                The way it is described is that there is some special left-hand or right-hand version. If it is a true double slip switch, there should be two lefts and two
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 22, 2013
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                  The way it is described is that there is some special left-hand or right-hand version. If it is a true double slip switch, there should be two lefts and two rights, basically four turnouts together with a 'special' like universal cross in the middle. Basically. From any direction to any (forward) direction.

                  A right hand (or left hand) implies, from what I recall, a half-slip switch. That is, one track can go to the other track from only one direction or, from one side.



                  Jeff

                  Sent 'from the road'

                  On Nov 22, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Alan Cox <alan@...> wrote:

                   

                  On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:17:33 -0800
                  BAZ <sjbazman49@...> wrote:

                  > Have a visual example of that?

                  Think about three parallel lines with a switch on each outer one and a
                  double slip in the middle for the crossing.

                • garthah
                  With a bit of thought I think I have it. when the double slip throw bar is not energized the straight through route is selected. On the left hand double slip
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 22, 2013
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                     With a bit of thought I think I have it. 


                    when the double slip throw bar is not energized the straight through route is selected. On the left hand double slip when the throw bar is energized it is the left hand route is selected. It does not matter in which direction you are travelling on the straight through route it is the left hand diverging route that is selected when the throwbar is energized. the opposite for the right hand version. So left hand and right hand have to do with position of the throw bar when it is energized versus the position when no energized. So as the unit is supplied as power routing double slip now you now which route is power when throw bar is energized. The double slip can be configured for  non power routing with supplied screws.  


                    regards Garth



                    ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <alan@...> wrote:

                    On 22 Nov 2013 14:54:48 -0800
                    <garth.a.hamilton@...> wrote:

                    > then why is the 13 degree crossing not sold in left or right hand model as it is the same geometry and the short piece of track supplied with the crossing make the connection for the geometry. but in the 13 degree crossing the short pieces of track are not trimmed while in the left and right double slip they are trimmed on different sides. I have asked the question of Rokuhan, it maybe that it relates to the power routing feature of the double slip when used with a standard turnout. Not sure but will copy Rokuhan's answer when I get it.

                    Because of the length differences needed as I said.

                    Think carefully about how it fits together. For a "left hand" you need
                    the short two tracks trimmed on one side, for a "right hand" you need the
                    trimming the other way. In the Märklin case the geometry difference is in
                    the point but in the Rokuhan case its in the 'cut' tracks - but you still
                    have the handedness there.

                    See the page on 1999 which explains this.

                    http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10248856

                    compare

                    http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10248857
                  • tpalex
                    I don t get it yet :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwrKnw4dOyE Is this one Left or Right hand? Which different behavior should I expect for the other
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 23, 2013
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                      I don't get it yet :)

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwrKnw4dOyE

                      Is this one Left or Right hand?  Which different behavior should I expect for the other "hand"?

                      Alex



                      On 23/11/2013 03:29, garth.a.hamilton@... wrote:
                       

                       With a bit of thought I think I have it. 


                      when the double slip throw bar is not energized the straight through route is selected. On the left hand double slip when the throw bar is energized it is the left hand route is selected. It does not matter in which direction you are travelling on the straight through route it is the left hand diverging route that is selected when the throwbar is energized. the opposite for the right hand version. So left hand and right hand have to do with position of the throw bar when it is energized versus the position when no energized. So as the unit is supplied as power routing double slip now you now which route is power when throw bar is energized. The double slip can be configured for  non power routing with supplied screws.  


                      regards Garth



                      ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <alan@...> wrote:

                      On 22 Nov 2013 14:54:48 -0800
                      <garth.a.hamilton@...> wrote:

                      > then why is the 13 degree crossing not sold in left or right hand model as it is the same geometry and the short piece of track supplied with the crossing make the connection for the geometry. but in the 13 degree crossing the short pieces of track are not trimmed while in the left and right double slip they are trimmed on different sides. I have asked the question of Rokuhan, it maybe that it relates to the power routing feature of the double slip when used with a standard turnout. Not sure but will copy Rokuhan's answer when I get it.

                      Because of the length differences needed as I said.

                      Think carefully about how it fits together. For a "left hand" you need
                      the short two tracks trimmed on one side, for a "right hand" you need the
                      trimming the other way. In the Märklin case the geometry difference is in
                      the point but in the Rokuhan case its in the 'cut' tracks - but you still
                      have the handedness there.

                      See the page on 1999 which explains this.

                      http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10248856

                      compare

                      http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10248857

                    • Alan Cox
                      On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 12:20:16 +0100 ... See the two links I posted earlier. The difference is in the two extra tracks you get with the product not with the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 23, 2013
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                        On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 12:20:16 +0100
                        tpalex <tpalex@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > I don't get it yet :)
                        >
                        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwrKnw4dOyE
                        >
                        > Is this one Left or Right hand? Which different behavior should I
                        > expect for the other "hand"?

                        See the two links I posted earlier. The difference is in the two extra
                        tracks you get with the product not with the actual crossing element
                        itself. Those need to be different depending which way your crossing is
                        oriented for something like a branch line coming off a mainline or a
                        crossing through three lines.

                        As I said earlier...

                        > > Think carefully about how it fits together. For a "left hand" you need
                        > > the short two tracks trimmed on one side, for a "right hand" you need the
                        > > trimming the other way. In the Märklin case the geometry difference is in
                        > > the point but in the Rokuhan case its in the 'cut' tracks - but you still
                        > > have the handedness there.
                        > >
                        > > See the page on 1999 which explains this.
                        > >
                        > > http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10248856
                        > >
                        > > compare
                        > >
                        > > http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10248857
                        > >
                        >

                        Don't look at the crossing piece in the picture look at the two trimmed
                        tracks.

                        Alan
                      • tpalex
                        Ok thank you but, for example: I have a Left Hand set but the 2 cut tracks from the Right Hand set, what prevents me to use them on the crossing line ends?
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 23, 2013
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                          Ok thank you but, for example: I have a Left Hand set but the 2 cut
                          tracks from the Right Hand set, what prevents me to use
                          them on the "crossing" line ends? Is it a matter of orientation respect
                          to what? :(

                          Alex

                          On 23/11/2013 13:10, Alan Cox wrote:
                          > On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 12:20:16 +0100
                          > tpalex <tpalex@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >> I don't get it yet :)
                          >>
                          >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwrKnw4dOyE
                          >>
                          >> Is this one Left or Right hand? Which different behavior should I
                          >> expect for the other "hand"?
                          > See the two links I posted earlier. The difference is in the two extra
                          > tracks you get with the product not with the actual crossing element
                          > itself. Those need to be different depending which way your crossing is
                          > oriented for something like a branch line coming off a mainline or a
                          > crossing through three lines.
                          >
                          > As I said earlier...
                          >
                          >>> Think carefully about how it fits together. For a "left hand" you need
                          >>> the short two tracks trimmed on one side, for a "right hand" you need the
                          >>> trimming the other way. In the Märklin case the geometry difference is in
                          >>> the point but in the Rokuhan case its in the 'cut' tracks - but you still
                          >>> have the handedness there.
                          >>>
                          >>> See the page on 1999 which explains this.
                          >>>
                          >>> http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10248856
                          >>>
                          >>> compare
                          >>>
                          >>> http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10248857
                          >>>
                          > Don't look at the crossing piece in the picture look at the two trimmed
                          > tracks.
                          >
                          > Alan
                          >
                        • Alan Cox
                          On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:38:41 +0100 ... Nothing. If you take a left hand set and swap the cut tracks for those from a right hand set, you end up with a right
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 23, 2013
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                            On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:38:41 +0100
                            tpalex <tpalex@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > Ok thank you but, for example: I have a Left Hand set but the 2 cut
                            > tracks from the Right Hand set, what prevents me to use
                            > them on the "crossing" line ends? Is it a matter of orientation respect
                            > to what? :(

                            Nothing. If you take a left hand set and swap the cut tracks for those
                            from a right hand set, you end up with a right hand set. The handedness
                            is in the cut tracks in the Rokuhan case.

                            Alan
                          • garthah
                            I have placed a copy of the Rokuhan Double slip turnout instruction sheet in the files section of this group. electrically and physically the left and right
                            Message 13 of 13 , Nov 26, 2013
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                               I have placed a copy of the Rokuhan Double slip turnout instruction sheet in the files section of this group. 


                              electrically and physically the left and right hand versions are identical the only difference is the trimed track, for a left hand the trim is on the right at one end and the opposite for a right hand one, the trim is on the left. . 


                              for position of the double slip when connected to a Rokuhan controller went lever is forward towards cable connector the route is the turnout diverging route and when pulled back the route is straight through. double slip.


                              the file is a pdf and it is not in a folder but in the root directory of the files section and file name starts with Rokuhan and files are listed in alphabetical order. 


                              regards Garth



                              ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <alan@...> wrote:

                              On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:38:41 +0100
                              tpalex <tpalex@...> wrote:

                              >
                              > Ok thank you but, for example: I have a Left Hand set but the 2 cut
                              > tracks from the Right Hand set, what prevents me to use
                              > them on the "crossing" line ends? Is it a matter of orientation respect
                              > to what? :(

                              Nothing. If you take a left hand set and swap the cut tracks for those
                              from a right hand set, you end up with a right hand set. The handedness
                              is in the cut tracks in the Rokuhan case.

                              Alan
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