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HELP!!!

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  • martin soll
    Laying track for a small Z Scale layout. Using Rokuhan Classic Track. At a double insulated joint, using Rokuhan double insulator, there is a misalignment of
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 2, 2013
      Laying track for a small Z Scale layout. Using Rokuhan Classic Track. At a double insulated joint, using Rokuhan double insulator, there is a misalignment of the rails on opposite sides of the insulator, causing a derailment EVERYTIME the loco drives across it. A push with one finger on one rail aligns the rails, but when pressure from finger is removed, the rail immediately springs back to misaligned position.
       
      What is the best method to hold the rails in alignment?
       
      SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!!
       
      Marty in Estacada, Oregon
    • Spencer Eachus
      Hello Being a bit unhappy with the performance of my Micro train turnouts, I looked at Rokuhan which seems to be popular in this group. The connections, both
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 2, 2013
         
         
        Hello
         
        Being a bit unhappy with the performance of my Micro train turnouts, I looked at Rokuhan which seems to be popular in this group. The connections, both electrical and mechanical look very similar to Micro train track based on the manufacturer's web site pictures. Can anyone tell me if they are compatible? Or if they can be made compatible?
         
        And are others happy with the performance of the Rokuhan turnouts?
         
         
        Thanks,
        Spence
      • garthah
        correctly installed and unaltered the double insulated joiner supports the opin end of the rail either side of the insulator nub and there is a small ridge
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 2, 2013

           correctly installed and unaltered the double insulated joiner supports the opin end of the rail either side of the insulator nub and there is a small ridge ridge to ensure the track sits in correct alignment either side of the insulator nub which is moulded to full track height when used with Rokuhan track, so there is a seamless and smooth transition across the insulator. correctly installed in track that is undamaged and whole there is no way you would have a misalignment.  I would like to see a picture of the joint on the layout. Only a poorly formed or altered insulator or track piece can be the fault as the insulator has roadbed locking tabs  that lock into the roadbed and ensure the rail ends are held at the correct level on either side of the insulator


          I have two reverse loops and I am using four of these insulators with no problems. 


          regards Garth



          ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <solldesign@...> wrote:

          Laying track for a small Z Scale layout. Using Rokuhan Classic Track. At a double insulated joint, using Rokuhan double insulator, there is a misalignment of the rails on opposite sides of the insulator, causing a derailment EVERYTIME the loco drives across it. A push with one finger on one rail aligns the rails, but when pressure from finger is removed, the rail immediately springs back to misaligned position.
           
          What is the best method to hold the rails in alignment?
           
          SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!!
           
          Marty in Estacada, Oregon
        • martin soll
          Attached is a poor photo, but I think you can see the misalignment.   The misalignment is lateral, not vertical. The curved section (120mm radius) rail end is
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 2, 2013
            Attached is a poor photo, but I think you can see the misalignment.
             
            The misalignment is lateral, not vertical. The curved section (120mm radius) rail end is not tangent to the next section (straight). The insulator and both sections of track are Rokuhan. The insulator has not been modified.


            ________________________________
            From: "garth.a.hamilton@..." <garth.a.hamilton@...>
            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, November 2, 2013 9:18 AM
            Subject: [Z_Scale] RE: HELP!!!



             
             correctly installed and unaltered the double insulated joiner supports the opin end of the rail either side of the insulator nub and there is a small ridge ridge to ensure the track sits in correct alignment either side of the insulator nub which is moulded to full track height when used with Rokuhan track, so there is a seamless and smooth transition across the insulator. correctly installed in track that is undamaged and whole there is no way you would have a misalignment.  I would like to see a picture of the joint on the layout. Only a poorly formed or altered insulator or track piece can be the fault as the insulator has roadbed locking tabs  that lock into the roadbed and ensure the rail ends are held at the correct level on either side of the insulator

            I have two reverse loops and I am using four of these insulators with no problems. 

            regards Garth


            ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <solldesign@...> wrote:


            Laying track for a small Z Scale layout. Using Rokuhan Classic Track. At a double insulated joint, using Rokuhan double insulator, there is a misalignment of the rails on opposite sides of the insulator, causing a derailment EVERYTIME the loco drives across it. A push with one finger on one rail aligns the rails, but when pressure from finger is removed, the rail immediately springs back to misaligned position.

            What is the best method to hold the rails in alignment?

            SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!!

            Marty in Estacada, Oregon


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • garthah
            Apence; physically there is not much difference in the two turnouts, but electrically there is a big difference. Micro Trains are non power routing (also
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 2, 2013

               Apence;


              physically there is not much difference in the two turnouts, but electrically there is  a big difference.  Micro Trains are non power routing (also know as power everywhere) The turnouts is controlled is also different. the Micro Trains turnout uses a three wire  system and contains two diferent coils which move the points from side to side so two push buttons are needed to control it or it can be controlled with a three wire DCC controller power required is 12vac.You have to purchase your push buttons separately from another source other than Micro Trains and they must be momentary contact variety.  Rokuhan turnout updated 110m or 13 degree turnout and all turnouts that followed can be configured to be either power routing  as delivered or modified with screws supplied to non power routing. In either case the frog polarity is controlled internally by the position of the points. The turnout control is a two wire system similar to that used by Kato  and other Japanese manufacturers. They use 10vdc and the polarity is reversed to control the points through a single-bi-directional coil.  Rokuhan Rokuhan does offer several ways to control your turnouts in a plug an play system. There is a stand alone controller that can be power form the 16vac or 12vac accessory power terminals on controllers commonly found in North American hobby shops for all scales. or from a wall transformer also available from them. Their top of the lind controller C001 and C003 also has built in two turnout control levers for their plug and play cable system.All their controllers have snap on auxiliary terminals which allow you to piggyback their single turnout lever additional controller on to the side of their controllers.


              If you want to provide your own control levers you need to read the article on David K Smith's web site on how to that as you need a center off toggle switch that is spring loaded to off, so it provides only momentary power to reverse the points. The control levers on the ROkuhan turnout controls do not appear to be spring loaded but when moved they connect briefly and then release internally. in addition their is double protection inside the turnout housing where the coil is located that when the points are thrown disconnects the power to the coil. with all these features the coil is very light so if you hold the lever over for an extended period you can burn it out quickly.  The other obvious difference between the two makes is on Rokuhan there is no side mounted solenoid operator.and the turnout can be used manually as well as remotely operated.  With the Micro Trains turnout you can purchase a manual version and later upgrade it to remote operation.  


              I think that covers all the pertinent points

              When combining or joining Rokuhan to Micro Trains  you need to realize there is a difference in rail size and heights and joiners. I have found that removing he micro trains road bed and metal rail joiners from Micro Track and replacing them with Rokuhan versions makes it fairly easy to join one to the other but there is a slight difference in rail height which will result in a click or bounce as the engine crosses the joint the faster the engine speed the more noticeable it is, this can be addressed with a small file but not eliminated entirely. 


              I like my turnouts but I have a connection to Rokuhan, it is not financial,  but even so might be consider to have a bias by some. 




              ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <kentuckylace@...> wrote:

               
               
              Hello
               
              Being a bit unhappy with the performance of my Micro train turnouts, I looked at Rokuhan which seems to be popular in this group. The connections, both electrical and mechanical look very similar to Micro train track based on the manufacturer's web site pictures. Can anyone tell me if they are compatible? Or if they can be made compatible?
               
              And are others happy with the performance of the Rokuhan turnouts?
               
               
              Thanks,
              Spence
            • thomas cipelle
              my name Thomas I use rokuhan track switches very reliable yes  they fit same foot print of marklin andMTL I have my rokuhan connect toMarklin double slip
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 2, 2013
                my name Thomas I use rokuhan track switches very reliable yes  they fit same foot print of marklin andMTL I have my rokuhan connect toMarklin double slip switchdouble slip into roukhan switch . rokuhan hastrack matching height connectors  being both MTL and  Marklin sit lowe  also rokuhan is 2 wire switch not 3 wire theroukhan  switch needs no added motor  switchmotor built drict into switch. IM using both roukhan standard switch and the 55 mm switchs.pulling 20 car tank train with SD70 azl locomotine my lower track 12car train doubled headedMTL  2gp-35 engine 4% grade center  track 2- gp- 38 AZL Mr. Garth and I one first use roukhan track. My other board is double helix using roukhan  under double helix is 90 degree figure 8 cross over NOTE no track cutting need fit figure eight under helix tks thomas


                On Saturday, November 2, 2013 12:00 PM, Spencer Eachus <kentuckylace@...> wrote:
                 
                 
                 
                Hello
                 
                Being a bit unhappy with the performance of my Micro train turnouts, I looked at Rokuhan which seems to be popular in this group. The connections, both electrical and mechanical look very similar to Micro train track based on the manufacturer's web site pictures. Can anyone tell me if they are compatible? Or if they can be made compatible?
                 
                And are others happy with the performance of the Rokuhan turnouts?
                 
                 
                Thanks,
                Spence


              • Spencer Eachus
                Thanks to those who responded to my plea for help. I ll keep the group posted as I wrestle toward a solution. Regards, Spence Gesendet: Samstag, 02. November
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 3, 2013
                  Thanks to those who responded to my plea for help. I'll keep the group posted as I wrestle toward a solution.
                   
                  Regards,
                  Spence
                   
                  Gesendet: Samstag, 02. November 2013 um 20:44 Uhr
                  Von: "thomas cipelle" <thomasc600@...>
                  An: "z_scale@yahoogroups.com" <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                  Betreff: Re: [Z_Scale] Track Compatability
                   

                   

                  my name Thomas I use rokuhan track switches very reliable yes  they fit same foot print of marklin andMTL I have my rokuhan connect toMarklin double slip switchdouble slip into roukhan switch . rokuhan hastrack matching height connectors  being both MTL and  Marklin sit lowe  also rokuhan is 2 wire switch not 3 wire theroukhan  switch needs no added motor  switchmotor built drict into switch. IM using both roukhan standard switch and the 55 mm switchs.pulling 20 car tank train with SD70 azl locomotine my lower track 12car train doubled headedMTL  2gp-35 engine 4% grade center  track 2- gp- 38 AZL Mr. Garth and I one first use roukhan track. My other board is double helix using roukhan  under double helix is 90 degree figure 8 cross over NOTE no track cutting need fit figure eight under helix tks thomas

                  On Saturday, November 2, 2013 12:00 PM, Spencer Eachus <kentuckylace@...> wrote:
                   
                   
                   
                  Hello
                   
                  Being a bit unhappy with the performance of my Micro train turnouts, I looked at Rokuhan which seems to be popular in this group. The connections, both electrical and mechanical look very similar to Micro train track based on the manufacturer's web site pictures. Can anyone tell me if they are compatible? Or if they can be made compatible?
                   
                  And are others happy with the performance of the Rokuhan turnouts?
                   
                   
                  Thanks,
                  Spence
                   

                   

                   

                • martin soll
                  As noted in previous HELP email, I m building a Z Scale layout with Rokuhan Classic Track. As I progress, I try to build it in steps so I can run trains, and
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 5, 2013
                    As noted in previous HELP email, I'm building a Z Scale layout with Rokuhan Classic Track. As I progress, I try to build it in steps so I can run trains, and test things out.
                     
                    Things were going great, when I suddenly lost power on the points and frog on one left hand 110mm turnout. The power loss is when the turnout is set for straight thru travel. When set to turn to alternate route, the points and frog have normal power. I did NOT alter the turnout--it is still set up for power routing as it came from the factory.
                     
                    QUESTIONS:
                    1. Any thoughts about what I might have done to damage the power feed to the points/frog feature of this turnout?
                    2. Any suggestions on how to repair rather than replace this turnout?
                    3. Does anyone know of a weak link in this Rokuhan turnout that might cause this problem to recurr? If I replace the turnout, can I expect a long life from the new one?
                     
                    Marty Soll in Estacada, Oregon
                     
                  • garthah
                    with power routing the power connection to track has to com from in front of points. this allows for power to be routed to either route, if power is fed from
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 6, 2013

                      with power routing the power connection to track has to com from in front of points. this allows for power to be routed to either route, if power is fed from other side power routing does not work  if you have converted to non power routing then you need only one feed point to the layout. however if enter turnout from end set against points engine will still stop.


                      regards Garth 



                      ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <solldesign@...> wrote:

                      As noted in previous HELP email, I'm building a Z Scale layout with Rokuhan Classic Track. As I progress, I try to build it in steps so I can run trains, and test things out.
                       
                      Things were going great, when I suddenly lost power on the points and frog on one left hand 110mm turnout. The power loss is when the turnout is set for straight thru travel. When set to turn to alternate route, the points and frog have normal power. I did NOT alter the turnout--it is still set up for power routing as it came from the factory.
                       
                      QUESTIONS:
                      1. Any thoughts about what I might have done to damage the power feed to the points/frog feature of this turnout?
                      2. Any suggestions on how to repair rather than replace this turnout?
                      3. Does anyone know of a weak link in this Rokuhan turnout that might cause this problem to recurr? If I replace the turnout, can I expect a long life from the new one?
                       
                      Marty Soll in Estacada, Oregon
                       
                    • BAZ
                      In other words, if configured for power routing, when set to any given direction, say straight , if the following thrown (curved) track does not have wired
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 6, 2013
                        In other words, if configured for power routing, when set to any given direction, say 'straight', if the following 'thrown' (curved) track does not have wired power on the rail *after* the turnout's frog rail, it won't run (no power gets to the frog rail due power routing with turnout is designed not to connect). But if running on a functioning power routing 'straight' turnout and the train stops after the 'straight' internally powered frog rail, then the turnout has a defective internal connection.

                        This a potential issue with DCC powered track work as a loco that runs into an incorrectly thrown Turn out will cause a short within the turnout and potentially damage internal parts due to the higher currents of DCC. Even some DC power packs have a lot of current that could do the same.

                        Jeff

                        Sent 'from the road'

                        On Nov 6, 2013, at 8:11 AM, <garth.a.hamilton@...> wrote:

                         

                        with power routing the power connection to track has to com from in front of points. this allows for power to be routed to either route, if power is fed from other side power routing does not work  if you have converted to non power routing then you need only one feed point to the layout. however if enter turnout from end set against points engine will still stop.


                        regards Garth 



                        ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <solldesign@...> wrote:

                        As noted in previous HELP email, I'm building a Z Scale layout with Rokuhan Classic Track. As I progress, I try to build it in steps so I can run trains, and test things out.
                         
                        Things were going great, when I suddenly lost power on the points and frog on one left hand 110mm turnout. The power loss is when the turnout is set for straight thru travel. When set to turn to alternate route, the points and frog have normal power. I did NOT alter the turnout--it is still set up for power routing as it came from the factory.
                         
                        QUESTIONS:
                        1. Any thoughts about what I might have done to damage the power feed to the points/frog feature of this turnout?
                        2. Any suggestions on how to repair rather than replace this turnout?
                        3. Does anyone know of a weak link in this Rokuhan turnout that might cause this problem to recurr? If I replace the turnout, can I expect a long life from the new one?
                         
                        Marty Soll in Estacada, Oregon
                         

                      • garthah
                        power routing only works if your feed to the track is in the track in front of the points.so this means that if your turnout is a loop of track you need an
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 6, 2013

                          power routing only works if your feed to the track is in the track in front of the points.so this means that if your turnout is a loop of track you need an insulator to ensure that feed in front of the points is not also feeding back to one of the routes out of the turnout. If that is the case you are better off using non power routing form of turnout. non power routing is the Marklin standard for turnouts, to use power routing you need to learn about power routing requirements and block wiring, basically you need also to understand reverse loops.  in power routing the track power can only be connected in front of the points and there can be no feeds from the route out side of turnout.


                          regards Garth   



                          ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <sjbazman49@...> wrote:

                          In other words, if configured for power routing, when set to any given direction, say 'straight', if the following 'thrown' (curved) track does not have wired power on the rail *after* the turnout's frog rail, it won't run (no power gets to the frog rail due power routing with turnout is designed not to connect). But if running on a functioning power routing 'straight' turnout and the train stops after the 'straight' internally powered frog rail, then the turnout has a defective internal connection.

                          This a potential issue with DCC powered track work as a loco that runs into an incorrectly thrown Turn out will cause a short within the turnout and potentially damage internal parts due to the higher currents of DCC. Even some DC power packs have a lot of current that could do the same.

                          Jeff

                          Sent 'from the road'

                          On Nov 6, 2013, at 8:11 AM, <garth.a.hamilton@...> wrote:

                           

                          with power routing the power connection to track has to com from in front of points. this allows for power to be routed to either route, if power is fed from other side power routing does not work  if you have converted to non power routing then you need only one feed point to the layout. however if enter turnout from end set against points engine will still stop.


                          regards Garth 



                          ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <solldesign@...> wrote:

                          As noted in previous HELP email, I'm building a Z Scale layout with Rokuhan Classic Track. As I progress, I try to build it in steps so I can run trains, and test things out.
                           
                          Things were going great, when I suddenly lost power on the points and frog on one left hand 110mm turnout. The power loss is when the turnout is set for straight thru travel. When set to turn to alternate route, the points and frog have normal power. I did NOT alter the turnout--it is still set up for power routing as it came from the factory.
                           
                          QUESTIONS:
                          1. Any thoughts about what I might have done to damage the power feed to the points/frog feature of this turnout?
                          2. Any suggestions on how to repair rather than replace this turnout?
                          3. Does anyone know of a weak link in this Rokuhan turnout that might cause this problem to recurr? If I replace the turnout, can I expect a long life from the new one?
                           
                          Marty Soll in Estacada, Oregon
                           
                        • martin soll
                          No response to my below email regarding loss of power to points and frog. Does that mean nobody besides me has encountered this problem?   I ve already
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 7, 2013
                            No response to my below email regarding loss of power to points and frog. Does that mean nobody besides me has encountered this problem?
                             
                            I've already ordered another turnout, so question 2 is a moot point.
                             
                            I would like to hear from someone, ANYONE, regarding questions 1 & 3.
                             
                            Marty in estacada, OR

                            From: martin soll <solldesign@...>
                            To: "z_scale@yahoogroups.com" <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:25 AM
                            Subject: [Z_Scale] HELP AGAIN!!!

                             
                            As noted in previous HELP email, I'm building a Z Scale layout with Rokuhan Classic Track. As I progress, I try to build it in steps so I can run trains, and test things out.
                             
                            Things were going great, when I suddenly lost power on the points and frog on one left hand 110mm turnout. The power loss is when the turnout is set for straight thru travel. When set to turn to alternate route, the points and frog have normal power. I did NOT alter the turnout--it is still set up for power routing as it came from the factory.
                             
                            QUESTIONS:
                            1. Any thoughts about what I might have done to damage the power feed to the points/frog feature of this turnout?
                            2. Any suggestions on how to repair rather than replace this turnout?
                            3. Does anyone know of a weak link in this Rokuhan turnout that might cause this problem to recurr? If I replace the turnout, can I expect a long life from the new one?
                             
                            Marty Soll in Estacada, Oregon
                             


                          • thomas cipelle
                            You need read what mr. Garth wrote On Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:04 PM, martin soll wrote:   No response to my below email
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 7, 2013
                              You need read what mr. Garth wrote


                              On Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:04 PM, martin soll <solldesign@...> wrote:
                               
                              No response to my below email regarding loss of power to points and frog. Does that mean nobody besides me has encountered this problem?
                               
                              I've already ordered another turnout, so question 2 is a moot point.
                               
                              I would like to hear from someone, ANYONE, regarding questions 1 & 3.
                               
                              Marty in estacada, OR

                              From: martin soll <solldesign@...>
                              To: "z_scale@yahoogroups.com" <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:25 AM
                              Subject: [Z_Scale] HELP AGAIN!!!

                               
                              As noted in previous HELP email, I'm building a Z Scale layout with Rokuhan Classic Track. As I progress, I try to build it in steps so I can run trains, and test things out.
                               
                              Things were going great, when I suddenly lost power on the points and frog on one left hand 110mm turnout. The power loss is when the turnout is set for straight thru travel. When set to turn to alternate route, the points and frog have normal power. I did NOT alter the turnout--it is still set up for power routing as it came from the factory.
                               
                              QUESTIONS:
                              1. Any thoughts about what I might have done to damage the power feed to the points/frog feature of this turnout?
                              2. Any suggestions on how to repair rather than replace this turnout?
                              3. Does anyone know of a weak link in this Rokuhan turnout that might cause this problem to recurr? If I replace the turnout, can I expect a long life from the new one?
                               
                              Marty Soll in Estacada, Oregon
                               




                            • martin soll
                              Mr. Garth Hamilton did not respond to this inquiry, HELP AGAIN--he responded to my previous cry for HELP. From: thomas cipelle To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 7, 2013
                                Mr. Garth Hamilton did not respond to this inquiry, HELP AGAIN--he responded to my previous cry for HELP.

                                From: thomas cipelle
                                To: "z_scale@yahoogroups.com"
                                Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2013 9:18 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] HELP AGAIN!!!

                                 
                                You need read what mr. Garth wrote


                                On Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:04 PM, martin soll wrote:
                                 
                                No response to my below email regarding loss of power to points and frog. Does that mean nobody besides me has encountered this problem?
                                 
                                I've already ordered another turnout, so question 2 is a moot point.
                                 
                                I would like to hear from someone, ANYONE, regarding questions 1 & 3.
                                 
                                Marty in estacada, OR

                                From: martin soll
                                To: "z_scale@yahoogroups.com"
                                Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:25 AM
                                Subject: [Z_Scale] HELP AGAIN!!!

                                 
                                As noted in previous HELP email, I'm building a Z Scale layout with Rokuhan Classic Track. As I progress, I try to build it in steps so I can run trains, and test things out.
                                 
                                Things were going great, when I suddenly lost power on the points and frog on one left hand 110mm turnout. The power loss is when the turnout is set for straight thru travel. When set to turn to alternate route, the points and frog have normal power. I did NOT alter the turnout--it is still set up for power routing as it came from the factory.
                                 
                                QUESTIONS:
                                1. Any thoughts about what I might have done to damage the power feed to the points/frog feature of this turnout?
                                2. Any suggestions on how to repair rather than replace this turnout?
                                3. Does anyone know of a weak link in this Rokuhan turnout that might cause this problem to recurr? If I replace the turnout, can I expect a long life from the new one?
                                 
                                Marty Soll in Estacada, Oregon
                                 






                              • Mack Canady
                                Actually Garth did respond. Mack Canady On Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:55 PM, martin soll wrote: Mr. Garth Hamilton did not respond to this inquiry, HELP
                                Message 15 of 23 , Nov 7, 2013
                                  Actually Garth did respond.

                                  Mack Canady


                                  On Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:55 PM, martin soll wrote:
                                   
                                  Mr. Garth Hamilton did not respond to this inquiry, HELP AGAIN--he responded to my previous cry for HELP.
                                • BAZ
                                  First, dont panic. second,d are a limited number of people on this forum and third, I would say we really have not had your issue and don t have answers for
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Nov 7, 2013
                                    First, dont panic. second,d are a limited number of people on this forum and third, I would say we really have not had your issue and don't have answers for everything.

                                    You are truly going to have to take the turnout off the layout to determine the issue. You likely will be able to resolve it and reuse the turnout. Either the contact to the frog rail is not getting connected to the PC board wiper or the points rail to the same. Garth's Nn3 site has the Rokuhan turnout internal pix so you can see how it is built and interwired.

                                    Once out, you can use a 'continuity tester', like an ohm meter (VOM) or light bulb and battery. Clip one lead on the frog' exit rail to compare to the frog or either stock rail, as you slide the side switch. Do the same for the points, clipping onto the stock rails this time to compare to the points (don't push hard on the points as there may an issue with contacts with that screw it pivots on or the small hook piece under the switch rod area. Also compare to the frog.

                                    Jeff 
                                    SF Bay Area Z 

                                    Sent 'from the road'

                                    On Nov 7, 2013, at 12:50 PM, martin soll <solldesign@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    Mr. Garth Hamilton did not respond to this inquiry, HELP AGAIN--he responded to my previous cry for HELP.

                                    From: thomas cipelle
                                    To: "z_scale@yahoogroups.com"
                                    Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2013 9:18 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] HELP AGAIN!!!

                                     
                                    You need read what mr. Garth wrote


                                    On Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:04 PM, martin soll wrote:
                                     
                                    No response to my below email regarding loss of power to points and frog. Does that mean nobody besides me has encountered this problem?
                                     
                                    I've already ordered another turnout, so question 2 is a moot point.
                                     
                                    I would like to hear from someone, ANYONE, regarding questions 1 3.
                                     
                                    Marty in estacada, OR

                                    From: martin soll
                                    To: "z_scale@yahoogroups.com"
                                    Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:25 AM
                                    Subject: [Z_Scale] HELP AGAIN!!!

                                     
                                    As noted in previous HELP email, I'm building a Z Scale layout with Rokuhan Classic Track. As I progress, I try to build it in steps so I can run trains, and test things out.
                                     
                                    Things were going great, when I suddenly lost power on the points and frog on one left hand 110mm turnout. The power loss is when the turnout is set for straight thru travel. When set to turn to alternate route, the points and frog have normal power. I did NOT alter the turnout--it is still set up for power routing as it came from the factory.
                                     
                                    QUESTIONS:
                                    1. Any thoughts about what I might have done to damage the power feed to the points/frog feature of this turnout?
                                    2. Any suggestions on how to repair rather than replace this turnout?
                                    3. Does anyone know of a weak link in this Rokuhan turnout that might cause this problem to recurr? If I replace the turnout, can I expect a long life from the new one?
                                     
                                    Marty Soll in Estacada, Oregon
                                     






                                  • airborne7395
                                    Sorry, I see your problem but I am still using Marklin. ... First, dont panic. second,d are a limited number of people on this forum and third, I would say we
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Nov 8, 2013

                                      Sorry, I see your problem but I am still using Marklin. 



                                      ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <sjbazman49@...> wrote:

                                      First, dont panic. second,d are a limited number of people on this forum and third, I would say we really have not had your issue and don't have answers for everything.

                                      You are truly going to have to take the turnout off the layout to determine the issue. You likely will be able to resolve it and reuse the turnout. Either the contact to the frog rail is not getting connected to the PC board wiper or the points rail to the same. Garth's Nn3 site has the Rokuhan turnout internal pix so you can see how it is built and interwired.

                                      Once out, you can use a 'continuity tester', like an ohm meter (VOM) or light bulb and battery. Clip one lead on the frog' exit rail to compare to the frog or either stock rail, as you slide the side switch. Do the same for the points, clipping onto the stock rails this time to compare to the points (don't push hard on the points as there may an issue with contacts with that screw it pivots on or the small hook piece under the switch rod area. Also compare to the frog.

                                      Jeff 
                                      SF Bay Area Z 

                                      Sent 'from the road'

                                      On Nov 7, 2013, at 12:50 PM, martin soll <solldesign@...> wrote:

                                       

                                      Mr. Garth Hamilton did not respond to this inquiry, HELP AGAIN--he responded to my previous cry for HELP.

                                      From: thomas cipelle
                                      To: "z_scale@yahoogroups.com"
                                      Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2013 9:18 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] HELP AGAIN!!!

                                       
                                      You need read what mr. Garth wrote


                                      On Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:04 PM, martin soll wrote:
                                       
                                      No response to my below email regarding loss of power to points and frog. Does that mean nobody besides me has encountered this problem?
                                       
                                      I've already ordered another turnout, so question 2 is a moot point.
                                       
                                      I would like to hear from someone, ANYONE, regarding questions 1 3.
                                       
                                      Marty in estacada, OR

                                      From: martin soll
                                      To: "z_scale@yahoogroups.com"
                                      Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:25 AM
                                      Subject: [Z_Scale] HELP AGAIN!!!

                                       
                                      As noted in previous HELP email, I'm building a Z Scale layout with Rokuhan Classic Track. As I progress, I try to build it in steps so I can run trains, and test things out.
                                       
                                      Things were going great, when I suddenly lost power on the points and frog on one left hand 110mm turnout. The power loss is when the turnout is set for straight thru travel. When set to turn to alternate route, the points and frog have normal power. I did NOT alter the turnout--it is still set up for power routing as it came from the factory.
                                       
                                      QUESTIONS:
                                      1. Any thoughts about what I might have done to damage the power feed to the points/frog feature of this turnout?
                                      2. Any suggestions on how to repair rather than replace this turnout?
                                      3. Does anyone know of a weak link in this Rokuhan turnout that might cause this problem to recurr? If I replace the turnout, can I expect a long life from the new one?
                                       
                                      Marty Soll in Estacada, Oregon
                                       






                                    • viktor_kovacs
                                      Hi, Please check if power is connected to the correct side of the turnout. You can not power one direction by power coming from the other direction. You must
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Nov 8, 2013

                                        Hi,


                                        Please check if power is connected to the correct side of the turnout. You can not

                                        power one direction by power coming from the other direction. You must connect

                                        the power feed to the common end. (where the points are)


                                        Also, check if your power pack has a higher current limit than your turnout,

                                        because if you do, your power pack can burn out the moving contacts in the

                                        turnout. The rokuhan switches should be good for 12V and 1A of power. Do

                                        not use a powerpack with a higher output rating. You can check any internal

                                        damage with a multimeter by measuring the resitance between the two ends

                                        of the turnout for both rails. You should measure something close to a short.


                                        If you measure something else, then you can disassemble the turnout and

                                        check the internal circuit board for damaged moving connections or other

                                        burned parts. Replace or repair the parts in question or disable the power

                                        routing altogether with the included screws. The latter should bridge any

                                        burnt contacts and lets you use the turnout as non power routing, like a

                                        normal maerklin turnout.


                                        just my 2 cents: Viktor





                                        ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <solldesign@...> wrote:

                                        No response to my below email regarding loss of power to points and frog. Does that mean nobody besides me has encountered this problem?
                                         
                                        I've already ordered another turnout, so question 2 is a moot point.
                                         
                                        I would like to hear from someone, ANYONE, regarding questions 1 & 3.
                                         
                                        Marty in estacada, OR

                                        From: martin soll <solldesign@...>
                                        To: "z_scale@yahoogroups.com" <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:25 AM
                                        Subject: [Z_Scale] HELP AGAIN!!!

                                         
                                        As noted in previous HELP email, I'm building a Z Scale layout with Rokuhan Classic Track. As I progress, I try to build it in steps so I can run trains, and test things out.
                                         
                                        Things were going great, when I suddenly lost power on the points and frog on one left hand 110mm turnout. The power loss is when the turnout is set for straight thru travel. When set to turn to alternate route, the points and frog have normal power. I did NOT alter the turnout--it is still set up for power routing as it came from the factory.
                                         
                                        QUESTIONS:
                                        1. Any thoughts about what I might have done to damage the power feed to the points/frog feature of this turnout?
                                        2. Any suggestions on how to repair rather than replace this turnout?
                                        3. Does anyone know of a weak link in this Rokuhan turnout that might cause this problem to recurr? If I replace the turnout, can I expect a long life from the new one?
                                         
                                        Marty Soll in Estacada, Oregon
                                         


                                      • martin soll
                                        I did exactly what Viktor noted I CANNOT do. I assume that the turnout is toast. I ve already ordered a new one. As soon as the new one arrives, I ll take out
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Nov 8, 2013
                                          I did exactly what Viktor noted I CANNOT do. I assume that the turnout is toast. I've already ordered a new one. As soon as the new one arrives, I'll take out the faulty one and see if it can be repaired (as a spare). Prior to installing the new one, I will revise the wiring to meet the requirements of NOT powering the turnout track from the frog end.
                                          Thanks you to all who responded, Marty
                                        • garthah
                                          Marty; I do not think there is anything wrong with your turnout, with power routing there is a different set of electrical rules from non power routing. non
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Nov 8, 2013

                                             Marty;


                                            I do not think there is anything wrong with your turnout, with power routing there is a different set of electrical rules from non power routing. non power routing is the Marklin standard for  Z scale and is the one most people are familiar with and is the simplest to implement. Power routing requires a fair bit of electrical knowledge and a knowledge of block wiring and is much more complicated to implement.  


                                            In any power routing turnout the track feed must be in front of  points or common end of the turnout and then power will be routed to the outlet as per the direction selected by the points. If you try to feed the turnout from the other side then only one route will be powered. This is why with most power routing turnouts the track feed is usually don by blocks with a control panel  and switches. If you feed the track at the backside, or outlet side of the turnout on the straight route the when the curved route is selected there will be no power. the same if you feed track power at outlet of curved route then when the turnout is set straight then there will be no power on that route. 


                                            For small and medium sized layouts non power routing is probably the way to go as you only need one power feed to the track and the complete layout is powered. However you can only run one engine or several MU'd or connected to one another so they act as a single engine. to run multiple engines on a layout you need either block control of track feed or DCC. In block wiring for multiple train operation you usually have a switch to select which cab, or throttle to power the block and a polarity switch to change direction with a throttle to control speed only and not change track direction. In block wiring there are two systems, one a single wire and a common rail and the other where you switch the power to both rails, my preference is for the two wire control rather single wire and common approach of some companies supplying control switches for blocks and turnouts. Block operation is more challenging as you have to match track polarity from block to block and when crossing from cab to cab or throttle. 


                                            regards Garth 



                                            ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <viktor_kovacs@...> wrote:

                                            Hi,


                                            Please check if power is connected to the correct side of the turnout. You can not

                                            power one direction by power coming from the other direction. You must connect

                                            the power feed to the common end. (where the points are)


                                            Also, check if your power pack has a higher current limit than your turnout,

                                            because if you do, your power pack can burn out the moving contacts in the

                                            turnout. The rokuhan switches should be good for 12V and 1A of power. Do

                                            not use a powerpack with a higher output rating. You can check any internal

                                            damage with a multimeter by measuring the resitance between the two ends

                                            of the turnout for both rails. You should measure something close to a short.


                                            If you measure something else, then you can disassemble the turnout and

                                            check the internal circuit board for damaged moving connections or other

                                            burned parts. Replace or repair the parts in question or disable the power

                                            routing altogether with the included screws. The latter should bridge any

                                            burnt contacts and lets you use the turnout as non power routing, like a

                                            normal maerklin turnout.


                                            just my 2 cents: Viktor





                                            ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <solldesign@...> wrote:

                                            No response to my below email regarding loss of power to points and frog. Does that mean nobody besides me has encountered this problem?
                                             
                                            I've already ordered another turnout, so question 2 is a moot point.
                                             
                                            I would like to hear from someone, ANYONE, regarding questions 1 & 3.
                                             
                                            Marty in estacada, OR

                                            From: martin soll <solldesign@...>
                                            To: "z_scale@yahoogroups.com" <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:25 AM
                                            Subject: [Z_Scale] HELP AGAIN!!!

                                             
                                            As noted in previous HELP email, I'm building a Z Scale layout with Rokuhan Classic Track. As I progress, I try to build it in steps so I can run trains, and test things out.
                                             
                                            Things were going great, when I suddenly lost power on the points and frog on one left hand 110mm turnout. The power loss is when the turnout is set for straight thru travel. When set to turn to alternate route, the points and frog have normal power. I did NOT alter the turnout--it is still set up for power routing as it came from the factory.
                                             
                                            QUESTIONS:
                                            1. Any thoughts about what I might have done to damage the power feed to the points/frog feature of this turnout?
                                            2. Any suggestions on how to repair rather than replace this turnout?
                                            3. Does anyone know of a weak link in this Rokuhan turnout that might cause this problem to recurr? If I replace the turnout, can I expect a long life from the new one?
                                             
                                            Marty Soll in Estacada, Oregon
                                             


                                          • martin soll
                                            Garth, Thank you for the reply. I must disagree--I am certain the turnout is toast. As I mentioned in initial HELP AGAIN!!! email, the layout was working
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Nov 8, 2013
                                              Garth,
                                              Thank you for the reply. I must disagree--I am certain the turnout is toast. As I mentioned in initial HELP AGAIN!!! email, the layout was working perfectly, and then suddenly it was not. When I tried to find the cause of the loco stalling on the turnout, I found the points and frog were dead when set to straight, but powered when set to alternate route (curved). I also realized that powering the turnout from the wrong end causes a short if switched under power--I am pretty certain that is what I did to fry the turnout circuit.

                                              From: "garth.a.hamilton@..."
                                              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, November 8, 2013 12:53 PM
                                              Subject: [Z_Scale] RE: HELP!!!

                                               
                                               Marty;

                                              I do not think there is anything wrong with your turnout, with power routing there is a different set of electrical rules from non power routing. non power routing is the Marklin standard for  Z scale and is the one most people are familiar with and is the simplest to implement. Power routing requires a fair bit of electrical knowledge and a knowledge of block wiring and is much more complicated to implement.  

                                              In any power routing turnout the track feed must be in front of  points or common end of the turnout and then power will be routed to the outlet as per the direction selected by the points. If you try to feed the turnout from the other side then only one route will be powered. This is why with most power routing turnouts the track feed is usually don by blocks with a control panel  and switches. If you feed the track at the backside, or outlet side of the turnout on the straight route the when the curved route is selected there will be no power. the same if you feed track power at outlet of curved route then when the turnout is set straight then there will be no power on that route. 

                                              For small and medium sized layouts non power routing is probably the way to go as you only need one power feed to the track and the complete layout is powered. However you can only run one engine or several MU'd or connected to one another so they act as a single engine. to run multiple engines on a layout you need either block control of track feed or DCC. In block wiring for multiple train operation you usually have a switch to select which cab, or throttle to power the block and a polarity switch to change direction with a throttle to control speed only and not change track direction. In block wiring there are two systems, one a single wire and a common rail and the other where you switch the power to both rails, my preference is for the two wire control rather single wire and common approach of some companies supplying control switches for blocks and turnouts. Block operation is more challenging as you have to match track polarity from block to block and when crossing from cab to cab or throttle. 

                                              regards Garth 


                                            • garthah
                                              you say the turnout is toast, does that mean you have melted the body of the turnout and it can no longer physically be operated manually.. if the turnout
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Nov 9, 2013

                                                 you say the turnout is toast, does that mean you have melted the body of the turnout and it can no longer physically be operated manually.. if the turnout points can be controlled manually there is a good chance that the power routing from the points, to the frog  will also work, While he remote coil is  easily damaged,  it is pretty hard to damage the mechanical part of the manual turnout which controls the points manually and routes the power to the frog. 


                                                regards Garth



                                                ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <solldesign@...> wrote:

                                                Garth,
                                                Thank you for the reply. I must disagree--I am certain the turnout is toast. As I mentioned in initial HELP AGAIN!!! email, the layout was working perfectly, and then suddenly it was not. When I tried to find the cause of the loco stalling on the turnout, I found the points and frog were dead when set to straight, but powered when set to alternate route (curved). I also realized that powering the turnout from the wrong end causes a short if switched under power--I am pretty certain that is what I did to fry the turnout circuit.

                                                From: "garth.a.hamilton@..."
                                                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Friday, November 8, 2013 12:53 PM
                                                Subject: [Z_Scale] RE: HELP!!!

                                                 
                                                 Marty;

                                                I do not think there is anything wrong with your turnout, with power routing there is a different set of electrical rules from non power routing. non power routing is the Marklin standard for  Z scale and is the one most people are familiar with and is the simplest to implement. Power routing requires a fair bit of electrical knowledge and a knowledge of block wiring and is much more complicated to implement.  

                                                In any power routing turnout the track feed must be in front of  points or common end of the turnout and then power will be routed to the outlet as per the direction selected by the points. If you try to feed the turnout from the other side then only one route will be powered. This is why with most power routing turnouts the track feed is usually don by blocks with a control panel  and switches. If you feed the track at the backside, or outlet side of the turnout on the straight route the when the curved route is selected there will be no power. the same if you feed track power at outlet of curved route then when the turnout is set straight then there will be no power on that route. 

                                                For small and medium sized layouts non power routing is probably the way to go as you only need one power feed to the track and the complete layout is powered. However you can only run one engine or several MU'd or connected to one another so they act as a single engine. to run multiple engines on a layout you need either block control of track feed or DCC. In block wiring for multiple train operation you usually have a switch to select which cab, or throttle to power the block and a polarity switch to change direction with a throttle to control speed only and not change track direction. In block wiring there are two systems, one a single wire and a common rail and the other where you switch the power to both rails, my preference is for the two wire control rather single wire and common approach of some companies supplying control switches for blocks and turnouts. Block operation is more challenging as you have to match track polarity from block to block and when crossing from cab to cab or throttle. 

                                                regards Garth 


                                              • martin soll
                                                The body of the turnout is not melted. I have not tested the remote switching function of the turnout. It does switch manually. When I used the word toast , I
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Nov 9, 2013
                                                  The body of the turnout is not melted. I have not tested the remote switching function of the turnout. It does switch manually. When I used the word "toast", I was referring to the power routing circuitry. The points and frog are dead when the switch is aligned for straight thru travel. The points and frog have power when the switch is aligned for travel on the diverging (curved) route.

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