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Re: [Z_Scale] Figure 8

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  • MG
    take a piece of 110 and cut it to the right length. Manfred
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 30, 2013
      take a piece of 110 and cut it to the right length.

      Manfred

      martin soll wrote:
      > I want to build a Z Scale figure 8 test track on a 17" x 28" board. Now that Rokuhan has a 90 degree crossover (R025), I want to use Rokuhan track. I've designed the Figure 8 on screen (AutoCAD), but can't find a good combination of the crossover, straight track elements (25mm, 55mm, and 110mm), and 95mm radius sections. The best combination I can come up with pretty much fills the available space, but leaves two 102.03mm gaps. Obviously, two Rokuhan R031 adjustable track sections (extendable from 100mm to 120mm) will fill the gaps, but they are pretty spendy.
      >
      > If anyone is interested is seeing the layout, contact me directly, and I'll send a pdf image of the AutoCAD layout.
      >
      > SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!!
      >
      > Marty in Estacada, Oregon
    • thomas cipelle
      you don t need special track im running figure  eight under double helix ________________________________ From: john@ztrains.com To:
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 30, 2013
        you don't need special track im running figure  eight under double helix

        From: "john@..." <john@...>
        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:17 PM
        Subject: [Z_Scale] RE: Figure 8
         
        As you've already seen a dead-on Figure-8 isn't quite possible on paper, but it is in practice. Here's an article I wrote a couple weeks back on the subject. The author of AnyRail track planning software also has a comment at the bottom of the article.

        http://www.raildig.com/blog/the-figure-8-plan-resolved/ 

        John
        http://www.raildig.com
        ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <greg@...> wrote:
        I had the same question, and to my surprise, when you buy the 90 degree crossing, Rokuhan supplies the information you are asking.
         
        See my web page, scroll to the bottom:  http://www.elmassian.com/z-scale-trains/z-track/rokuhan-track
         
        Regards, Greg 
        ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <z_scale@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        I want to build a Z Scale figure 8 test track on a 17" x 28" board. Now that Rokuhan has a 90 degree crossover (R025), I want to use Rokuhan track. I've designed the Figure 8 on screen (AutoCAD), but can't find a good combination of the crossover, straight track elements (25mm, 55mm, and 110mm), and 95mm radius sections. The best combination I can come up with pretty much fills the available space, but leaves two 102.03mm gaps. Obviously, two Rokuhan R031 adjustable track sections (extendable from 100mm to 120mm) will fill the gaps, but they are pretty spendy.
         
        If anyone is interested is seeing the layout, contact me directly, and I'll send a pdf image of the AutoCAD layout.
         
        SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!!
         
        Marty in Estacada, Oregon
         
      • martin soll
        Thanks for the suggestion Manfred, but I think I prefer to use 2 Rokuhan R031 s even tho they are spendy. ________________________________ From: MG
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 30, 2013
          Thanks for the suggestion Manfred, but I think I prefer to use 2 Rokuhan R031's even tho they are spendy.

          From: MG <AFN47583@...>
          To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:22 PM
          Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Figure 8
           
          take a piece of 110 and cut it to the right length.

          Manfred

          martin soll wrote:
          > I want to build a Z Scale figure 8 test track on a 17" x 28" board. Now that Rokuhan has a 90 degree crossover (R025), I want to use Rokuhan track. I've designed the Figure 8 on screen (AutoCAD), but can't find a good combination of the crossover, straight track elements (25mm, 55mm, and 110mm), and 95mm radius sections. The best combination I can come up with pretty much fills the available space, but leaves two 102.03mm gaps. Obviously, two Rokuhan R031 adjustable track sections (extendable from 100mm to 120mm) will fill the gaps, but they are pretty spendy.
          >
          > If anyone is interested is seeing the layout, contact me directly, and I'll send a pdf image of the AutoCAD layout.
          >
          > SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!!
          >
          > Marty in Estacada, Oregon
        • rgminutillo
          Yes it is possible on paper and in reality. As has been noted Rokuhan provides a sheet showing all combinations of strainght and curved for various symmetrical
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 1 6:04 AM

            Yes it is possible on paper and in reality. As has been noted Rokuhan provides a sheet showing all combinations of strainght and curved for various symmetrical figure-eight layouts. Use those as a starting point and build from there. If I can do it anyone can.


            RGM 



            ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <z_scale@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            As you've already seen a dead-on Figure-8 isn't quite possible on paper, but it is in practice. Here's an article I wrote a couple weeks back on the subject. The author of AnyRail track planning software also has a comment at the bottom of the article.


            http://www.raildig.com/blog/the-figure-8-plan-resolved/ 


            John

            http://www.raildig.com



            ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <greg@...> wrote:

            I had the same question, and to my surprise, when you buy the 90 degree crossing, Rokuhan supplies the information you are asking.

             

            See my web page, scroll to the bottom:  http://www.elmassian.com/z-scale-trains/z-track/rokuhan-track

             

            Regards, Greg 



            ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <z_scale@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            I want to build a Z Scale figure 8 test track on a 17" x 28" board. Now that Rokuhan has a 90 degree crossover (R025), I want to use Rokuhan track. I've designed the Figure 8 on screen (AutoCAD), but can't find a good combination of the crossover, straight track elements (25mm, 55mm, and 110mm), and 95mm radius sections. The best combination I can come up with pretty much fills the available space, but leaves two 102.03mm gaps. Obviously, two Rokuhan R031 adjustable track sections (extendable from 100mm to 120mm) will fill the gaps, but they are pretty spendy.
             
            If anyone is interested is seeing the layout, contact me directly, and I'll send a pdf image of the AutoCAD layout.
             
            SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!!
             
            Marty in Estacada, Oregon
             
          • martin soll
            RGM, Sorry to disagree with you, but I cannot find any combination of 25mm straights, 55mm straights, 95mm radius curves, (the combination included with the
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 1 8:15 AM
              RGM, Sorry to disagree with you, but I cannot find any combination of 25mm straights, 55mm straights, 95mm radius curves, (the combination included with the 90 degree xing that Rokuhan claims will make a figure 8) and a 90 degree 25mm crossing that form a perfect figure 8. Admittedly, the error is small (about 0.25mm, .010"), but an error just the same. If the joints are flexed to account for the error, it will most likely be functional, BUT if I build such a figure 8, and I get derailments, I will never know if it is trackage error or rolling stock error that is to blame. Another consideration is this plan requires several 25mm sections, that probably equal the cost of the "spendy" adjustable sections used in my original design. A third consideration is the size of the fig 8--my original design nearly fills the available space (17" x 28"), while the design noted in this paragraph is quite small.
               
              As before, comments/suggestions welcome.
               
              Marty in Estacada, OR

              From: "rgminutillo@..." <rgminutillo@...>
              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 6:04 AM
              Subject: [Z_Scale] RE: RE: Figure 8
               
              Yes it is possible on paper and in reality. As has been noted Rokuhan provides a sheet showing all combinations of strainght and curved for various symmetrical figure-eight layouts. Use those as a starting point and build from there. If I can do it anyone can.

              RGM 
              ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <z_scale@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
              As you&apos;ve already seen a dead-on Figure-8 isn&apos;t quite possible on paper, but it is in practice. Here&apos;s an article I wrote a couple weeks back on the subject. The author of AnyRail track planning software also has a comment at the bottom of the article.

              http://www.raildig.com/blog/the-figure-8-plan-resolved/ 

              John
              http://www.raildig.com
              ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <greg@...> wrote:
              I had the same question, and to my surprise, when you buy the 90 degree crossing, Rokuhan supplies the information you are asking.
               
              See my web page, scroll to the bottom:  http://www.elmassian.com/z-scale-trains/z-track/rokuhan-track
               
              Regards, Greg 
              ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <z_scale@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
              I want to build a Z Scale figure 8 test track on a 17" x 28" board. Now that Rokuhan has a 90 degree crossover (R025), I want to use Rokuhan track. I&apos;ve designed the Figure 8 on screen (AutoCAD), but can&apos;t find a good combination of the crossover, straight track elements (25mm, 55mm, and 110mm), and 95mm radius sections. The best combination I can come up with pretty much fills the available space, but leaves two 102.03mm gaps. Obviously, two Rokuhan R031 adjustable track sections (extendable from 100mm to 120mm) will fill the gaps, but they are pretty spendy.
               
              If anyone is interested is seeing the layout, contact me directly, and I&apos;ll send a pdf image of the AutoCAD layout.
               
              SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!!
               
              Marty in Estacada, Oregon
               
            • David Mummery
              I have a PDF on the home computer that shows the various configurations and parts needed, I ll try to get it posted tonight. Dave Mummery
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 1 8:50 AM
                I have a PDF on the home computer that shows the various configurations and parts needed, I'll try to get it posted tonight.

                Dave Mummery

                http://27squaresof220ing.blogspot.com/
                http://tractionmadness.blogspot.com/

                Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone

                -----Original Message-----
                From: martin soll <solldesign@...>
                Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 15:15:12
                To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] RE: RE: Figure 8

                 





                RGM, Sorry to disagree with you, but I cannot find any combination of 25mm straights, 55mm straights, 95mm radius curves, (the combination included with the 90 degree xing that Rokuhan claims will make a figure 8) and a 90 degree 25mm crossing that form a perfect figure 8. Admittedly, the error is small (about 0.25mm, .010"), but an error just the same. If the joints are flexed to account for the error, it will most likely be functional, BUT if I build such a figure 8, and I get derailments, I will never know if it is trackage error or rolling stock error that is to blame. Another consideration is this plan requires several 25mm sections, that probably equal the cost of the "spendy" adjustable sections used in my original design. A third consideration is the size of the fig 8--my original design nearly fills the available space (17" x 28"), while the design noted in this paragraph is quite small.
                 
                As before, comments/suggestions welcome.
                 
                Marty in Estacada, OR





                From: "rgminutillo@..." <rgminutillo@...>
                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 6:04 AM
                Subject: [Z_Scale] RE: RE: Figure 8



                 



                Yes it is possible on paper and in reality. As has been noted Rokuhan provides a sheet showing all combinations of strainght and curved for various symmetrical figure-eight layouts. Use those as a starting point and build from there. If I can do it anyone can.


                RGM 

                ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <z_scale@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                As you've already seen a dead-on Figure-8 isn't quite possible on paper, but it is in practice. Here's an article I wrote a couple weeks back on the subject. The author of AnyRail track planning software also has a comment at the bottom of the article.



                http://www.raildig.com/blog/the-figure-8-plan-resolved/%c2%a0


                John
                http://www.raildig.com

                ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <greg@...> wrote:

                I had the same question, and to my surprise, when you buy the 90 degree crossing, Rokuhan supplies the information you are asking.
                 
                See my web page, scroll to the bottom:  http://www.elmassian.com/z-scale-trains/z-track/rokuhan-track
                 
                Regards, Greg 
                ---In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, <z_scale@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                I want to build a Z Scale figure 8 test track on a 17" x 28" board. Now that Rokuhan has a 90 degree crossover (R025), I want to use Rokuhan track. I&apos;ve designed the Figure 8 on screen (AutoCAD), but can&apos;t find a good combination of the crossover, straight track elements (25mm, 55mm, and 110mm), and 95mm radius sections. The best combination I can come up with pretty much fills the available space, but leaves two 102.03mm gaps. Obviously, two Rokuhan R031 adjustable track sections (extendable from 100mm to 120mm) will fill the gaps, but they are pretty spendy.
                 
                If anyone is interested is seeing the layout, contact me directly, and I&apos;ll send a pdf image of the AutoCAD layout.
                 
                SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!!
                 
                Marty in Estacada, Oregon
                 
              • john_ztrains
                The thing is the illustrations by Rokuhan are sometimes more artists renditions, not 100% accurate track plans. It’s explained by Rokuhan themselves as well
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 1 12:28 PM

                  The thing is the illustrations by Rokuhan are sometimes more artists renditions, not 100% accurate track plans. It’s explained by Rokuhan themselves as well as the author of the track planning software, Anyrail, in these two articles:

                  http://www.raildig.com/blog/inaccuracy-in-track-planning/
                  http://www.raildig.com/blog/the-figure-8-plan-resolved/

                  In the second article I was sent a sketch directly from Rokuhan illustrating this, as well as the comment:

                  "We selected, by chance, to develop 25mm and 55mm straight track. If you ask for real “accuracy” on Z scale, really PRECISE dimensions would be necessary, such as 18.678mm (just as an example). However, we think pieces like this would be impractical in the current Z scale world."

                  Also you can see the PDF (link below) of the 90 degree crossing where Rokuhan lays out the track pieces needed for different Figure-8 patterns but realize these Figure-8 patterns are illustrations, not accurate track plans, there will be gaps using these patterns according to Rokuhan.


                  http://www.us-zscale.com/rokuhan-track/rokuhan-crossings/rokuhan-r025

                  The gaps you’ll see sometimes are very small and as Rokuhan says, there’s enough wiggle room there so you can put together many plans with no adverse running effects.

                  If you want dead-on perfect fitting track, you can always cut and tweak track but in running several Figure-8 patterns with trains from MTL and AZL, I've seen no negative results from using small amounts of wiggle room to make them fit.

                  John
                  http://www.raildig.com

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