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Budd passenger cars? TOFC?

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  • Malcolm Kent Cleaveland
    On Sat Jul 20, 2013 Brian Chapman wrote: Posted by: Brian cornbeltroute
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 21, 2013
      On Sat Jul 20, 2013 Brian Chapman wrote:

      Posted by: "Brian" cornbeltroute <mailto:cornbeltroute@...?subject=Re%3A%20Budd%20passenger%20cars%3F%20TOFC%3F>
      Just a couple quick inquiries, if I may:

      1 - Are Budd passenger cars available in Z?

      2 - TOFC is my greatest rail interest, so I wonder how well stocked Z is for TOFC rail cars and trailers. My interest is from the inception of TrailerTrain in the middle 1950s through the 1960s.

      Brian Chapman
      Evansdale, Iowa

      Brian,

      E & D Models, LLC makes (or made, I haven't checked lately) 89' flats for TOFC. They took over from Alan Curtis. These are bare metal kits. AZL makes RTR 89' flats that could be used for TOFC, although they come with the AZL containers, not trailers. Some of this stuff may be out of your time era, 1950s-1960s. There are shorter flat cars available, i'm not sure when the longer trailers came in.

      Someone said that there are several sources of trailers. The only source (that I know of) for true N. American style !:220 trailers is Shapeways rapid prototyping. Those are somewhat fragile and you have to paint them and come up with decals. There are companies in Europe (Herpa for example) that make European trucks that often don't look like N.A. trucks, quite noticeably different. There are also trucks available in 1:200 and 1:250, but they wouldn't look so good on a 1:220 flatcar.

      Sorry to be so negative. We need injection molded, pad printed 1:220 N. American trailers. Micro-Trains has done this in N scale, but don't hold your breath to see it from them in Z scale.

      CheerZ,
      -- Malcolm Z
      MCZ Models


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Brian
      Mark, Dom, Malcolm, thank you for the information. It is helpful. Like so many others have already done, I m gearing up a tiny cottage business. I use 2D/3D
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
        Mark, Dom, Malcolm, thank you for the information. It is helpful.

        Like so many others have already done, I'm gearing up a tiny cottage business. I use 2D/3D software to draw and proof my project items, cut pieces on a CNC mill and CNC lathe, build the master and move on to the casting shop (resin and metal).

        I'm trying to get a sense of what Z scale is about, and whether there's a need/desire for a resin caster to do a bit of work in the scale, that is, include Z scale with the other scales in which I intend to work.

        I need many different trailer types for the N scale CGW layout I'm building and for the TT scale modules I plan to construct.

        Thanks much,

        Brian Chapman
        Evansdale, Iowa
      • Alan Cox
        On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:13:22 -0000 ... I run a small cottage business in the UK mostly doing N gauge. With T, Z and with N I m finding it is small enough that
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
          On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:13:22 -0000
          "Brian" <cornbeltroute@...> wrote:

          > Mark, Dom, Malcolm, thank you for the information. It is helpful.
          >
          > Like so many others have already done, I'm gearing up a tiny cottage business. I use 2D/3D software to draw and proof my project items, cut pieces on a CNC mill and CNC lathe, build the master and move on to the casting shop (resin and metal).

          I run a small cottage business in the UK mostly doing N gauge. With T, Z
          and with N I'm finding it is small enough that its usually cheaper to 3D
          print final product than resin cast it at the quality I want. Sometimes
          combining that with etched, vinyl or decal overlays.

          If your metal casting includes diecasting then you may have a good
          opportunity to produce some of the flatter vehicles that don't 3D print
          or cast well in resin (ie they tend to go banana shaped over time even
          with good resins). Not something I've pursued as the household management
          wouldn't approve of diecasting at home ;-)

          On the plus side there are lots of things not available in Z, on the
          negative side there are not that many Z modellers - but its an
          enthusiastic bunch!

          Alan
        • Brian
          Alan, thanks much! I m an inexperienced caster, and I know I ve got many tough lessons to learn as I move along. I have a never-used spin-casting machine (see
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
            Alan, thanks much! I'm an inexperienced caster, and I know I've got many tough lessons to learn as I move along.

            I have a never-used spin-casting machine (see what I mean about a learning curve?) plus other methods of production, but not die-casting.

            I really don't want to cast 500 of something, I'd rather work with smaller, enthusiastic groups (TT is another one) than pour resin endlessly.

            -Brian Chapman
            Evansdale, Iowa
          • Loren Snyder
            Brian, Z scale is almost the new kid on the block, and as a new kid, it takes time to be accepted as one of the gang. I think Z is basically where N was back
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
              Brian,

              Z scale is almost the new kid on the block, and as a new kid, it takes time
              to be accepted as one of the gang.

              I think Z is basically where N was back in 1972, when Z first appeared. Now
              N is flooded with every imaginable product with many grades of quality,
              while Z is still very limited in comparison.

              It is true as Alan mentioned, there are far fewer folks involved in Z than
              in N or HO, but Z modelers can never be called on the carpet for not being
              very enthusiastic. Our enthusiasm runs over at any train show or on the
              forums and we are very passionate about our 'cute' little scale.

              What is also very true is the lack of products in Z as compared to N and HO.


              I think the bottom line in regards to what Z folks want generally speaking
              is "quality" for our dollar spent. Be is cast resin, wood, etched metal or
              any other material.....we want quality and as close to scale with as much
              detail as we can get for our dollar spent. In our scale, there are those
              who are pleased with 'good enough' but there are also those who really get
              excited when it comes to detail and accuracy.

              So, in conclusion, if you can provide a product or service that we Z folks
              want or need.......we will be happy to give you our money.
              Just don't ask for an arm and a leg. :o)

              If you want input as to what is desired, just ask on the forums, but be
              prepared for a long list of 'wants'. It's not that we are greedy, we just
              want what the other scales have already. And we also want to be recognized
              as legitimate modelers and with Z being much more than a passing fancy or
              novelty.

              We Z folks are very much here to stay and the more manufacturers can provide
              the stronger a voice we will have.

              Wishing you success in everything Z,

              Loren
              Z Train Things




              -------Original Message-------

              From: Brian
              Date: 7/22/2013 9:13:25 AM
              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?

              Mark, Dom, Malcolm, thank you for the information. It is helpful.

              Like so many others have already done, I'm gearing up a tiny cottage
              business. I use 2D/3D software to draw and proof my project items, cut
              pieces on a CNC mill and CNC lathe, build the master and move on to the
              casting shop (resin and metal).

              I'm trying to get a sense of what Z scale is about, and whether there's a
              need/desire for a resin caster to do a bit of work in the scale, that is,
              include Z scale with the other scales in which I intend to work.

              I need many different trailer types for the N scale CGW layout I'm building
              and for the TT scale modules I plan to construct.

              Thanks much,

              Brian Chapman
              Evansdale, Iowa




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Brian
              Loren, Terrific post, thank you! Z scale is ahead of TT scale in products available, but both groups, it s clear to me, are brothers in arms - devoted to its
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
                Loren,

                Terrific post, thank you!

                Z scale is ahead of TT scale in products available, but both groups, it's clear to me, are brothers in arms - devoted to its scale, and highly enthusiastic to boot.

                I'll do my best with my Z scale masters and the Z scale community will pass judgment. Hope my best is good enough.

                -Brian Chapman
                Evansdale, Iowa
              • Loren Snyder
                Brian, Would you PM me at ljsnyder@charter please? Stepping out for a few minutes but will be back shortly. Loren ... From: Brian Date: 7/22/2013 10:27:02 AM
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
                  Brian,
                  Would you PM me at ljsnyder@charter please? Stepping out for a few minutes
                  but will be back shortly.

                  Loren




                  -------Original Message-------

                  From: Brian
                  Date: 7/22/2013 10:27:02 AM
                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?

                  Loren,

                  Terrific post, thank you!

                  Z scale is ahead of TT scale in products available, but both groups, it's
                  clear to me, are brothers in arms - devoted to its scale, and highly
                  enthusiastic to boot.

                  I'll do my best with my Z scale masters and the Z scale community will pass
                  judgment. Hope my best is good enough.

                  -Brian Chapman
                  Evansdale, Iowa



                  ------------------------------------

                  Z-scale: minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
                  Yahoo! Groups Links




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • BAZ
                  If you make the quality stuff, it generally sells into the low hundreds in our Z scale. TOFC s are great and, there have been several produced. A few limited
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
                    If you make the quality stuff, it generally sells into the low hundreds in our Z scale. TOFC's are great and, there have been several produced. A few limited cast metal and the commercial AZL's. However, there are no trailers !!!! Tractor's we can get away with some RP's (3D printers) but the trailers just don't look right when RP'd.


                    Jeff

                    Sent 'from the road'

                    On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:26 AM, "Brian" <cornbeltroute@...> wrote:

                    > Loren,
                    >
                    > Terrific post, thank you!
                    >
                    > Z scale is ahead of TT scale in products available, but both groups, it's clear to me, are brothers in arms - devoted to its scale, and highly enthusiastic to boot.
                    >
                    > I'll do my best with my Z scale masters and the Z scale community will pass judgment. Hope my best is good enough.
                    >
                    > -Brian Chapman
                    > Evansdale, Iowa
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Edward Scullin
                    Loen Read your post, and have but one thing to say cute is a four letter word . Had that one pulled on me at this years NTS Ed Scullin
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
                      Loen
                      Read your post, and have but one thing to say "cute is a four letter word".
                      Had that one pulled on me at this years NTS
                      Ed Scullin


                      ________________________________
                      From: Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...>
                      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 1:11 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?



                       
                      Brian,

                      Z scale is almost the new kid on the block, and as a new kid, it takes time
                      to be accepted as one of the gang.

                      I think Z is basically where N was back in 1972, when Z first appeared. Now
                      N is flooded with every imaginable product with many grades of quality,
                      while Z is still very limited in comparison.

                      It is true as Alan mentioned, there are far fewer folks involved in Z than
                      in N or HO, but Z modelers can never be called on the carpet for not being
                      very enthusiastic. Our enthusiasm runs over at any train show or on the
                      forums and we are very passionate about our 'cute' little scale.

                      What is also very true is the lack of products in Z as compared to N and HO.


                      I think the bottom line in regards to what Z folks want generally speaking
                      is "quality" for our dollar spent. Be is cast resin, wood, etched metal or
                      any other material.....we want quality and as close to scale with as much
                      detail as we can get for our dollar spent. In our scale, there are those
                      who are pleased with 'good enough' but there are also those who really get
                      excited when it comes to detail and accuracy.

                      So, in conclusion, if you can provide a product or service that we Z folks
                      want or need.......we will be happy to give you our money.
                      Just don't ask for an arm and a leg. :o)

                      If you want input as to what is desired, just ask on the forums, but be
                      prepared for a long list of 'wants'. It's not that we are greedy, we just
                      want what the other scales have already. And we also want to be recognized
                      as legitimate modelers and with Z being much more than a passing fancy or
                      novelty.

                      We Z folks are very much here to stay and the more manufacturers can provide
                      the stronger a voice we will have.

                      Wishing you success in everything Z,

                      Loren
                      Z Train Things




                      -------Original Message-------

                      From: Brian
                      Date: 7/22/2013 9:13:25 AM
                      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?

                      Mark, Dom, Malcolm, thank you for the information. It is helpful.

                      Like so many others have already done, I'm gearing up a tiny cottage
                      business. I use 2D/3D software to draw and proof my project items, cut
                      pieces on a CNC mill and CNC lathe, build the master and move on to the
                      casting shop (resin and metal).

                      I'm trying to get a sense of what Z scale is about, and whether there's a
                      need/desire for a resin caster to do a bit of work in the scale, that is,
                      include Z scale with the other scales in which I intend to work.

                      I need many different trailer types for the N scale CGW layout I'm building
                      and for the TT scale modules I plan to construct.

                      Thanks much,

                      Brian Chapman
                      Evansdale, Iowa




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Loren Snyder
                      Ed, I don t mind the term cute , but I know it bothers some folks. I think they are cute or neat or cool or whatever you wish to describe them as. Main
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
                        Ed,

                        I don't mind the term 'cute', but I know it bothers some folks. I think
                        they are cute or neat or cool or whatever you wish to describe them as.
                        Main objective at train shows is to share the excitement and enjoyment of
                        our hobby with the viewing public, hoping our enjoyment will be a bit
                        contagious and rub off on others.

                        I'm willing to wager the one using the term 'cute' was of the female
                        persuasion?

                        Loren




                        -------Original Message-------

                        From: Edward Scullin
                        Date: 7/22/2013 1:49:32 PM
                        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?

                        Loren
                        Read your post, and have but one thing to say "cute is a four letter word".
                        Had that one pulled on me at this years NTS
                        Ed Scullin



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • John C. La Rue, Jr.
                        Cute is the most common term among the ladies and is probably the reason there are so many women in Z. The term among the kids is cool ; nothing odd about
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 23, 2013
                          "Cute" is the most common term among the ladies and is probably the reason there are so many women in Z. The term among the kids is "cool"; nothing odd about that as "cool" has been the universal term for approval since I was a kid and that was over 50 years ago.

                          As for the men, remarks like: "Maybe if you water it, it will grow" seem to be more the norm.

                          John C. La Rue, Jr.
                          Bonita Springs, FL


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...>
                          To: z_scale <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Tue, Jul 23, 2013 1:16 am
                          Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?






                          Ed,

                          I don't mind the term 'cute', but I know it bothers some folks. I think
                          they are cute or neat or cool or whatever you wish to describe them as.
                          Main objective at train shows is to share the excitement and enjoyment of
                          our hobby with the viewing public, hoping our enjoyment will be a bit
                          contagious and rub off on others.

                          I'm willing to wager the one using the term 'cute' was of the female
                          persuasion?

                          Loren




                          -------Original Message-------

                          From: Edward Scullin
                          Date: 7/22/2013 1:49:32 PM
                          To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?

                          Loren
                          Read your post, and have but one thing to say "cute is a four letter word".
                          Had that one pulled on me at this years NTS
                          Ed Scullin



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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