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Re : [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?

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  • de Champeaux Dominique
    Speaking of the Marklin TOFC: true, they consist of trailers AND tractors. However, I'm not aware of any intermodal transportation in the US made with
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 20, 2013
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      Speaking of the Marklin TOFC: true, they consist of trailers AND tractors. However, I'm not aware of any intermodal transportation in the US made with trailer tractors on railroad cars. I've only seen trailers on flat cars (ie the true meaning of TOFC), but in no way their tractors.

      Dom







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Malcolm Kent Cleaveland
      On Sat Jul 20, 2013 Brian Chapman wrote: Posted by: Brian cornbeltroute
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 21, 2013
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        On Sat Jul 20, 2013 Brian Chapman wrote:

        Posted by: "Brian" cornbeltroute <mailto:cornbeltroute@...?subject=Re%3A%20Budd%20passenger%20cars%3F%20TOFC%3F>
        Just a couple quick inquiries, if I may:

        1 - Are Budd passenger cars available in Z?

        2 - TOFC is my greatest rail interest, so I wonder how well stocked Z is for TOFC rail cars and trailers. My interest is from the inception of TrailerTrain in the middle 1950s through the 1960s.

        Brian Chapman
        Evansdale, Iowa

        Brian,

        E & D Models, LLC makes (or made, I haven't checked lately) 89' flats for TOFC. They took over from Alan Curtis. These are bare metal kits. AZL makes RTR 89' flats that could be used for TOFC, although they come with the AZL containers, not trailers. Some of this stuff may be out of your time era, 1950s-1960s. There are shorter flat cars available, i'm not sure when the longer trailers came in.

        Someone said that there are several sources of trailers. The only source (that I know of) for true N. American style !:220 trailers is Shapeways rapid prototyping. Those are somewhat fragile and you have to paint them and come up with decals. There are companies in Europe (Herpa for example) that make European trucks that often don't look like N.A. trucks, quite noticeably different. There are also trucks available in 1:200 and 1:250, but they wouldn't look so good on a 1:220 flatcar.

        Sorry to be so negative. We need injection molded, pad printed 1:220 N. American trailers. Micro-Trains has done this in N scale, but don't hold your breath to see it from them in Z scale.

        CheerZ,
        -- Malcolm Z
        MCZ Models


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Brian
        Mark, Dom, Malcolm, thank you for the information. It is helpful. Like so many others have already done, I m gearing up a tiny cottage business. I use 2D/3D
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
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          Mark, Dom, Malcolm, thank you for the information. It is helpful.

          Like so many others have already done, I'm gearing up a tiny cottage business. I use 2D/3D software to draw and proof my project items, cut pieces on a CNC mill and CNC lathe, build the master and move on to the casting shop (resin and metal).

          I'm trying to get a sense of what Z scale is about, and whether there's a need/desire for a resin caster to do a bit of work in the scale, that is, include Z scale with the other scales in which I intend to work.

          I need many different trailer types for the N scale CGW layout I'm building and for the TT scale modules I plan to construct.

          Thanks much,

          Brian Chapman
          Evansdale, Iowa
        • Alan Cox
          On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:13:22 -0000 ... I run a small cottage business in the UK mostly doing N gauge. With T, Z and with N I m finding it is small enough that
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
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            On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:13:22 -0000
            "Brian" <cornbeltroute@...> wrote:

            > Mark, Dom, Malcolm, thank you for the information. It is helpful.
            >
            > Like so many others have already done, I'm gearing up a tiny cottage business. I use 2D/3D software to draw and proof my project items, cut pieces on a CNC mill and CNC lathe, build the master and move on to the casting shop (resin and metal).

            I run a small cottage business in the UK mostly doing N gauge. With T, Z
            and with N I'm finding it is small enough that its usually cheaper to 3D
            print final product than resin cast it at the quality I want. Sometimes
            combining that with etched, vinyl or decal overlays.

            If your metal casting includes diecasting then you may have a good
            opportunity to produce some of the flatter vehicles that don't 3D print
            or cast well in resin (ie they tend to go banana shaped over time even
            with good resins). Not something I've pursued as the household management
            wouldn't approve of diecasting at home ;-)

            On the plus side there are lots of things not available in Z, on the
            negative side there are not that many Z modellers - but its an
            enthusiastic bunch!

            Alan
          • Brian
            Alan, thanks much! I m an inexperienced caster, and I know I ve got many tough lessons to learn as I move along. I have a never-used spin-casting machine (see
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
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              Alan, thanks much! I'm an inexperienced caster, and I know I've got many tough lessons to learn as I move along.

              I have a never-used spin-casting machine (see what I mean about a learning curve?) plus other methods of production, but not die-casting.

              I really don't want to cast 500 of something, I'd rather work with smaller, enthusiastic groups (TT is another one) than pour resin endlessly.

              -Brian Chapman
              Evansdale, Iowa
            • Loren Snyder
              Brian, Z scale is almost the new kid on the block, and as a new kid, it takes time to be accepted as one of the gang. I think Z is basically where N was back
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
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                Brian,

                Z scale is almost the new kid on the block, and as a new kid, it takes time
                to be accepted as one of the gang.

                I think Z is basically where N was back in 1972, when Z first appeared. Now
                N is flooded with every imaginable product with many grades of quality,
                while Z is still very limited in comparison.

                It is true as Alan mentioned, there are far fewer folks involved in Z than
                in N or HO, but Z modelers can never be called on the carpet for not being
                very enthusiastic. Our enthusiasm runs over at any train show or on the
                forums and we are very passionate about our 'cute' little scale.

                What is also very true is the lack of products in Z as compared to N and HO.


                I think the bottom line in regards to what Z folks want generally speaking
                is "quality" for our dollar spent. Be is cast resin, wood, etched metal or
                any other material.....we want quality and as close to scale with as much
                detail as we can get for our dollar spent. In our scale, there are those
                who are pleased with 'good enough' but there are also those who really get
                excited when it comes to detail and accuracy.

                So, in conclusion, if you can provide a product or service that we Z folks
                want or need.......we will be happy to give you our money.
                Just don't ask for an arm and a leg. :o)

                If you want input as to what is desired, just ask on the forums, but be
                prepared for a long list of 'wants'. It's not that we are greedy, we just
                want what the other scales have already. And we also want to be recognized
                as legitimate modelers and with Z being much more than a passing fancy or
                novelty.

                We Z folks are very much here to stay and the more manufacturers can provide
                the stronger a voice we will have.

                Wishing you success in everything Z,

                Loren
                Z Train Things




                -------Original Message-------

                From: Brian
                Date: 7/22/2013 9:13:25 AM
                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?

                Mark, Dom, Malcolm, thank you for the information. It is helpful.

                Like so many others have already done, I'm gearing up a tiny cottage
                business. I use 2D/3D software to draw and proof my project items, cut
                pieces on a CNC mill and CNC lathe, build the master and move on to the
                casting shop (resin and metal).

                I'm trying to get a sense of what Z scale is about, and whether there's a
                need/desire for a resin caster to do a bit of work in the scale, that is,
                include Z scale with the other scales in which I intend to work.

                I need many different trailer types for the N scale CGW layout I'm building
                and for the TT scale modules I plan to construct.

                Thanks much,

                Brian Chapman
                Evansdale, Iowa




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Brian
                Loren, Terrific post, thank you! Z scale is ahead of TT scale in products available, but both groups, it s clear to me, are brothers in arms - devoted to its
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
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                  Loren,

                  Terrific post, thank you!

                  Z scale is ahead of TT scale in products available, but both groups, it's clear to me, are brothers in arms - devoted to its scale, and highly enthusiastic to boot.

                  I'll do my best with my Z scale masters and the Z scale community will pass judgment. Hope my best is good enough.

                  -Brian Chapman
                  Evansdale, Iowa
                • Loren Snyder
                  Brian, Would you PM me at ljsnyder@charter please? Stepping out for a few minutes but will be back shortly. Loren ... From: Brian Date: 7/22/2013 10:27:02 AM
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
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                    Brian,
                    Would you PM me at ljsnyder@charter please? Stepping out for a few minutes
                    but will be back shortly.

                    Loren




                    -------Original Message-------

                    From: Brian
                    Date: 7/22/2013 10:27:02 AM
                    To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?

                    Loren,

                    Terrific post, thank you!

                    Z scale is ahead of TT scale in products available, but both groups, it's
                    clear to me, are brothers in arms - devoted to its scale, and highly
                    enthusiastic to boot.

                    I'll do my best with my Z scale masters and the Z scale community will pass
                    judgment. Hope my best is good enough.

                    -Brian Chapman
                    Evansdale, Iowa



                    ------------------------------------

                    Z-scale: minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
                    Yahoo! Groups Links




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • BAZ
                    If you make the quality stuff, it generally sells into the low hundreds in our Z scale. TOFC s are great and, there have been several produced. A few limited
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
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                      If you make the quality stuff, it generally sells into the low hundreds in our Z scale. TOFC's are great and, there have been several produced. A few limited cast metal and the commercial AZL's. However, there are no trailers !!!! Tractor's we can get away with some RP's (3D printers) but the trailers just don't look right when RP'd.


                      Jeff

                      Sent 'from the road'

                      On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:26 AM, "Brian" <cornbeltroute@...> wrote:

                      > Loren,
                      >
                      > Terrific post, thank you!
                      >
                      > Z scale is ahead of TT scale in products available, but both groups, it's clear to me, are brothers in arms - devoted to its scale, and highly enthusiastic to boot.
                      >
                      > I'll do my best with my Z scale masters and the Z scale community will pass judgment. Hope my best is good enough.
                      >
                      > -Brian Chapman
                      > Evansdale, Iowa
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Edward Scullin
                      Loen Read your post, and have but one thing to say cute is a four letter word . Had that one pulled on me at this years NTS Ed Scullin
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
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                        Loen
                        Read your post, and have but one thing to say "cute is a four letter word".
                        Had that one pulled on me at this years NTS
                        Ed Scullin


                        ________________________________
                        From: Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...>
                        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 1:11 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?



                         
                        Brian,

                        Z scale is almost the new kid on the block, and as a new kid, it takes time
                        to be accepted as one of the gang.

                        I think Z is basically where N was back in 1972, when Z first appeared. Now
                        N is flooded with every imaginable product with many grades of quality,
                        while Z is still very limited in comparison.

                        It is true as Alan mentioned, there are far fewer folks involved in Z than
                        in N or HO, but Z modelers can never be called on the carpet for not being
                        very enthusiastic. Our enthusiasm runs over at any train show or on the
                        forums and we are very passionate about our 'cute' little scale.

                        What is also very true is the lack of products in Z as compared to N and HO.


                        I think the bottom line in regards to what Z folks want generally speaking
                        is "quality" for our dollar spent. Be is cast resin, wood, etched metal or
                        any other material.....we want quality and as close to scale with as much
                        detail as we can get for our dollar spent. In our scale, there are those
                        who are pleased with 'good enough' but there are also those who really get
                        excited when it comes to detail and accuracy.

                        So, in conclusion, if you can provide a product or service that we Z folks
                        want or need.......we will be happy to give you our money.
                        Just don't ask for an arm and a leg. :o)

                        If you want input as to what is desired, just ask on the forums, but be
                        prepared for a long list of 'wants'. It's not that we are greedy, we just
                        want what the other scales have already. And we also want to be recognized
                        as legitimate modelers and with Z being much more than a passing fancy or
                        novelty.

                        We Z folks are very much here to stay and the more manufacturers can provide
                        the stronger a voice we will have.

                        Wishing you success in everything Z,

                        Loren
                        Z Train Things




                        -------Original Message-------

                        From: Brian
                        Date: 7/22/2013 9:13:25 AM
                        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?

                        Mark, Dom, Malcolm, thank you for the information. It is helpful.

                        Like so many others have already done, I'm gearing up a tiny cottage
                        business. I use 2D/3D software to draw and proof my project items, cut
                        pieces on a CNC mill and CNC lathe, build the master and move on to the
                        casting shop (resin and metal).

                        I'm trying to get a sense of what Z scale is about, and whether there's a
                        need/desire for a resin caster to do a bit of work in the scale, that is,
                        include Z scale with the other scales in which I intend to work.

                        I need many different trailer types for the N scale CGW layout I'm building
                        and for the TT scale modules I plan to construct.

                        Thanks much,

                        Brian Chapman
                        Evansdale, Iowa




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Loren Snyder
                        Ed, I don t mind the term cute , but I know it bothers some folks. I think they are cute or neat or cool or whatever you wish to describe them as. Main
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 22, 2013
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                          Ed,

                          I don't mind the term 'cute', but I know it bothers some folks. I think
                          they are cute or neat or cool or whatever you wish to describe them as.
                          Main objective at train shows is to share the excitement and enjoyment of
                          our hobby with the viewing public, hoping our enjoyment will be a bit
                          contagious and rub off on others.

                          I'm willing to wager the one using the term 'cute' was of the female
                          persuasion?

                          Loren




                          -------Original Message-------

                          From: Edward Scullin
                          Date: 7/22/2013 1:49:32 PM
                          To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?

                          Loren
                          Read your post, and have but one thing to say "cute is a four letter word".
                          Had that one pulled on me at this years NTS
                          Ed Scullin



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • John C. La Rue, Jr.
                          Cute is the most common term among the ladies and is probably the reason there are so many women in Z. The term among the kids is cool ; nothing odd about
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 23, 2013
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                            "Cute" is the most common term among the ladies and is probably the reason there are so many women in Z. The term among the kids is "cool"; nothing odd about that as "cool" has been the universal term for approval since I was a kid and that was over 50 years ago.

                            As for the men, remarks like: "Maybe if you water it, it will grow" seem to be more the norm.

                            John C. La Rue, Jr.
                            Bonita Springs, FL


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...>
                            To: z_scale <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Tue, Jul 23, 2013 1:16 am
                            Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?






                            Ed,

                            I don't mind the term 'cute', but I know it bothers some folks. I think
                            they are cute or neat or cool or whatever you wish to describe them as.
                            Main objective at train shows is to share the excitement and enjoyment of
                            our hobby with the viewing public, hoping our enjoyment will be a bit
                            contagious and rub off on others.

                            I'm willing to wager the one using the term 'cute' was of the female
                            persuasion?

                            Loren




                            -------Original Message-------

                            From: Edward Scullin
                            Date: 7/22/2013 1:49:32 PM
                            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Budd passenger cars? TOFC?

                            Loren
                            Read your post, and have but one thing to say "cute is a four letter word".
                            Had that one pulled on me at this years NTS
                            Ed Scullin



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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