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Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Kato Controller

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  • Keith Buxton
    Many thanks Mark - I have experience of PWM control unit on an experiment with T gauge. ________________________________ From: mark2playz
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 23, 2013
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      Many thanks Mark - I have experience of PWM control unit on an experiment with T gauge.


      ________________________________
      From: mark2playz <mark.markham@...>
      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 3:27 AM
      Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Kato Controller

       

      Hi,
      The short answer is no. Depending on the loco you have, 8-9 VDC is maximum. The Marklin controller has a minimum voltage of about 3 V, which is a bit high for slow speeds. If you check the files section of the group, you'll find a diagram for a voltage dropping circuit that can be use to lower either the minimum voltage of the Marklin unit or the high voltagw of the Kato unit.
      I've been using a PWM unit called "The Snail" that is built for Z scale and allows for really low speeds.
      Hope this helps,

      Mark

      --- In mailto:z_scale%40yahoogroups.com, "heljan" <kbuxton71@...> wrote:
      >
      > Is it okay to use a Kato Controller on Z Marklin loco's ??? - I find that Marklin controller does not allow loco's to run slowly at bottom position of dial - I use Kato controller on N scale which seems more sensitive and produces very slow speeds
      >




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Keith Buxton
      Many thanks to you all for info. ________________________________ From: dpstripe@aol.com To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 23, 2013
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        Many thanks to you all for info.


        ________________________________
        From: "dpstripe@..." <dpstripe@...>
        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 7:00 AM
        Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Kato Controller


         


        The Railpower 1300 is a basic analog controller. If the Kato uses pulse power or PWM (pulse width modulation), it is a completely different storry. For example, when the 1300 is set to 9 volts, it is putting out a nine volt output. If a pulse power or PWM controller are set to "9v", it is actually sending out a bunch of full voltage pulses, varying frequency and duration. If the Kato supply is 10-12 volts output, then even at a lower setting (if it is a pulse controller), the output will be 10-12volts. As stated earlier, a diode voltage reducing circuit can be made (or purchased from MRC) to drop the voltage, or a z scale rated supply can be purchased.

        Dan S.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Brian K <mailto:odstalpha12%40gmail.com>
        To: z_scale <mailto:z_scale%40yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sat, Jun 22, 2013 11:51 pm
        Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Kato Controller

        I use a Railpower 1300 and just marked off where I got a reading of 9.0v
        when I had my multimeter on the track and it works fine. I would assume
        that the same practice can be used with the Kato controller. That being
        said, as Mark noted 9v is about all Z can handle from what I have seen and
        if you use this method you will need to be careful not to fry your engines.
        Just my $0.02.
        On Jun 22, 2013 8:27 PM, "mark2playz" <mailto:mark.markham%40rocketmail.com> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Hi,
        > The short answer is no. Depending on the loco you have, 8-9 VDC is
        > maximum. The Marklin controller has a minimum voltage of about 3 V, which
        > is a bit high for slow speeds. If you check the files section of the group,
        > you'll find a diagram for a voltage dropping circuit that can be use to
        > lower either the minimum voltage of the Marklin unit or the high voltagw of
        > the Kato unit.
        > I've been using a PWM unit called "The Snail" that is built for Z scale
        > and allows for really low speeds.
        > Hope this helps,
        >
        > Mark
        >
        > --- In mailto:z_scale%40yahoogroups.com, "heljan" <kbuxton71@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Is it okay to use a Kato Controller on Z Marklin loco's ??? - I find
        > that Marklin controller does not allow loco's to run slowly at bottom
        > position of dial - I use Kato controller on N scale which seems more
        > sensitive and produces very slow speeds
        > >
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Keith Buxton
        Thanks Alan - are the Rokuhan controllers any better than the Marklin ones for slow speed running ??? - Keith ________________________________ From: Alan Cox
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 23, 2013
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          Thanks Alan - are the Rokuhan controllers any better than the Marklin ones for slow speed running ??? - Keith


          ________________________________
          From: Alan Cox <alan@...>
          To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: mark.markham@...
          Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 12:49 PM
          Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Kato Controller


           

          On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:27:54 -0000
          "mark2playz" <mailto:mark.markham%40rocketmail.com> wrote:

          > Hi,
          > The short answer is no. Depending on the loco you have, 8-9 VDC is maximum. The Marklin controller has a minimum voltage of about 3 V, which is a bit high for slow speeds.

          Which version - the old big blue one in Europe did but the later grey one
          seems much better and is also slightly smarter.

          Either way as you say a diode bridge will drop about 1.4v

          Alan



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gardenrails
          Keith, I have 2 of the Rokuhan and they are great. I am amazed how slow the Micro Train SDs run with these. Have not tried any AZL locos. Mack Greensboro, NC
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 23, 2013
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            Keith, I have 2 of the Rokuhan and they are great. I am amazed how slow the Micro Train SDs run with these. Have not tried any AZL locos.

            Mack
            Greensboro, NC

            Sent from my iPhone

            On Jun 23, 2013, at 8:47 AM, Keith Buxton <kbuxton71@...> wrote:

            > Thanks Alan - are the Rokuhan controllers any better than the Marklin ones for slow speed running ??? - Keith
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Alan Cox <alan@...>
            > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
            > Cc: mark.markham@...
            > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 12:49 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Kato Controller
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:27:54 -0000
            > "mark2playz" <mailto:mark.markham%40rocketmail.com> wrote:
            >
            > > Hi,
            > > The short answer is no. Depending on the loco you have, 8-9 VDC is maximum. The Marklin controller has a minimum voltage of about 3 V, which is a bit high for slow speeds.
            >
            > Which version - the old big blue one in Europe did but the later grey one
            > seems much better and is also slightly smarter.
            >
            > Either way as you say a diode bridge will drop about 1.4v
            >
            > Alan
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Garth
            The Rokuhan controllers go down to zero volts and I find they do fine for slow speed operation even on their own engines which are jack rabbits. I like the
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 24, 2013
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              The Rokuhan controllers go down to zero volts and I find they do fine for slow speed operation even on their own engines which are jack rabbits. I like the C001 better than the C002, basically I think it is the bigger box. basic difference is C001 does not have the constant lighting circuit in it and the C002 does and the upgraded version of C001 the C003 will have constant lighting in it. So far I have not seen any heating on the Marklin engines (steamers ) that I run using on Rokuhan controllers with constant lighting. The biggest difference is that the C001 and C002 have higher current capacity so when running muliple engines particularly the F7's I do not trip the breaker which happens sometimes with 3 F7's on a C002 controller. However the best slow speed controllers are the Medvend ones and Joeger ones. The AJoeger ones are still available in Europe via the internet and the Medvend ones are found in several places from Z scale internet vendors here in North America as well as in Europe.

              regards Garth

              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Keith Buxton <kbuxton71@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks Alan - are the Rokuhan controllers any better than the Marklin ones for slow speed running ??? - Keith
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Alan Cox <alan@...>
              > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              > Cc: mark.markham@...
              > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 12:49 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Kato Controller
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              > On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:27:54 -0000
              > "mark2playz" <mailto:mark.markham%40rocketmail.com> wrote:
              >
              > > Hi,
              > > The short answer is no. Depending on the loco you have, 8-9 VDC is maximum. The Marklin controller has a minimum voltage of about 3 V, which is a bit high for slow speeds.
              >
              > Which version - the old big blue one in Europe did but the later grey one
              > seems much better and is also slightly smarter.
              >
              > Either way as you say a diode bridge will drop about 1.4v
              >
              > Alan
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • David Mummery
              I have used the Medvend controller but in N and you can get the locos to creep as if they where DCC controlled. A great controller! Dave Dave Mummery
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 24, 2013
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                I have used the Medvend controller but in N and you can get the locos to creep as if they where DCC controlled.
                A great controller!
                Dave

                Dave Mummery

                http://27squaresof220ing.blogspot.com/
                http://tractionmadness.blogspot.com/

                Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Garth <garth.a.hamilton@...>
                Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:49:46
                To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Kato Controller

                 



                The Rokuhan controllers go down to zero volts and I find they do fine for slow speed operation even on their own engines which are jack rabbits. I like the C001 better than the C002, basically I think it is the bigger box. basic difference is C001 does not have the constant lighting circuit in it and the C002 does and the upgraded version of C001 the C003 will have constant lighting in it. So far I have not seen any heating on the Marklin engines (steamers ) that I run using on Rokuhan controllers with constant lighting. The biggest difference is that the C001 and C002 have higher current capacity so when running muliple engines particularly the F7's I do not trip the breaker which happens sometimes with 3 F7's on a C002 controller. However the best slow speed controllers are the Medvend ones and Joeger ones. The AJoeger ones are still available in Europe via the internet and the Medvend ones are found in several places from Z scale internet vendors here in North America as well as in Europe.

                regards Garth

                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com <mailto:z_scale%40yahoogroups.com> , Keith Buxton <kbuxton71@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks Alan - are the Rokuhan controllers any better than the Marklin ones for slow speed running ??? - Keith
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Alan Cox <alan@...>
                > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com <mailto:z_scale%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Cc: mark.markham@...
                > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 12:49 PM
                > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Kato Controller
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                > On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:27:54 -0000
                > "mark2playz" <mailto:mark.markham%40rocketmail.com> wrote:
                >
                > > Hi,
                > > The short answer is no. Depending on the loco you have, 8-9 VDC is maximum. The Marklin controller has a minimum voltage of about 3 V, which is a bit high for slow speeds.
                >
                > Which version - the old big blue one in Europe did but the later grey one
                > seems much better and is also slightly smarter.
                >
                > Either way as you say a diode bridge will drop about 1.4v
                >
                > Alan
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Keith Buxton
                Many thanks for info re controllers - also info from Garth about Rokuhan loco s being jack rabbits - Keith.  ________________________________ From: David
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 24, 2013
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                  Many thanks for info re controllers - also info from Garth about Rokuhan loco's being "jack rabbits" - Keith. 


                  ________________________________
                  From: David Mummery <d_mummery@...>
                  To: Z Yahooers <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 6:05 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Kato Controller


                  I have used the Medvend controller but in N and you can get the locos to creep as if they where DCC controlled.
                  A great controller!
                  Dave

                  Dave Mummery

                  http://27squaresof220ing.blogspot.com/
                  http://tractionmadness.blogspot.com/

                  Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Garth <garth.a.hamilton@...>
                  Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:49:46
                  To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Kato Controller

                   



                  The Rokuhan controllers go down to zero volts and I find they do fine for slow speed operation even on their own engines which are jack rabbits. I like the C001 better than the C002, basically I think it is the bigger box. basic difference is C001 does not have the constant lighting circuit in it and the C002 does and the upgraded version of C001 the C003 will have constant lighting in it. So far I have not seen any heating on the Marklin engines (steamers ) that I run using on Rokuhan controllers with constant lighting. The biggest difference is that the C001 and C002 have higher current capacity so when running muliple engines particularly the F7's I do not trip the breaker which happens sometimes with 3 F7's on a C002 controller. However the best slow speed controllers are the Medvend ones and Joeger ones. The AJoeger ones are still available in Europe via the internet and the Medvend ones are found in several places from Z scale internet vendors here
                  in North America as well as in Europe.

                  regards Garth

                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com <mailto:z_scale%40yahoogroups.com> , Keith Buxton <kbuxton71@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks Alan - are the Rokuhan controllers any better than the Marklin ones for slow speed running ??? - Keith
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Alan Cox <alan@...>
                  > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com <mailto:z_scale%40yahoogroups.com> 
                  > Cc: mark.markham@...
                  > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 12:49 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Kato Controller
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  > On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:27:54 -0000
                  > "mark2playz" <mailto:mark.markham%40rocketmail.com> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hi,
                  > > The short answer is no. Depending on the loco you have, 8-9 VDC is maximum. The Marklin controller has a minimum voltage of about 3 V, which is a bit high for slow speeds.
                  >
                  > Which version - the old big blue one in Europe did but the later grey one
                  > seems much better and is also slightly smarter.
                  >
                  > Either way as you say a diode bridge will drop about 1.4v
                  >
                  > Alan
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >





                  ------------------------------------

                  Z-scale:  minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
                  Yahoo! Groups Links



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • joeszajko
                  I have not posted here in a bit, but I have read many of the replies and well, I think many people responded who have never used a Kato controller, and that
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 24, 2013
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                    I have not posted here in a bit, but I have read many of the replies and well, I think many people responded who have never used a Kato controller, and that bugs me a bit.

                    Truth, the voltage could get too high...if you run trains at light speed then yes this could be an issue.

                    Fact, kato is pure DC, it might be the "best" power pack of any scale. You would be fine using it for Z if you do not go too fast. If you run it too fast and ruin your loco's that is on you. It is better than the MRC 1300 or tech 2. The white marklin packs are in my mind junk.

                    If you want the best DC controller for Z get a Jorger, it has EMF and your trains can run at a slow constant speed better than anything. The snail speed is ok, not close to the jorger.

                    Well, it is your choice, but take a look at the "Pro Z" power pack, they are sometimes on sale on ebay. Quite frankly I think they are the same thing as the Kato. I do not own a pro Z power supply but boy do they look the same.

                    As for Rokuhan, I do not own one but I was not impressed with the slow speed operation based on the video on youtube.

                    My two cents baised on my personal equipment and what I have ran and seen with my eyes. All the best.



                    --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "heljan" <kbuxton71@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Is it okay to use a Kato Controller on Z Marklin loco's ??? - I find that Marklin controller does not allow loco's to run slowly at bottom position of dial - I use Kato controller on N scale which seems more sensitive and produces very slow speeds
                    >
                  • Garth
                    There are a large variety of Kato controllers and no model information was given. I have two of the least expensive of Kato Controllers, the blue box which
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 25, 2013
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                      There are a large variety of Kato controllers and no model information was given. I have two of the least expensive of Kato Controllers, the blue box which uses a wall transformer for your connection to household AC, which I use for N-scale, yes they can be used for Z -scale, but I don't use them because when I am at shows I prefer to use a controller where guest operators can operate and there is not fear of them inadvertently putting too much juice to an engine. Yes you can glue a block on the front panel to limit the power output. There is also the consideration of what happens in a short as the unit has current protection, but I have not tested to see how fast it reacts. at 1.5 amps it is not excessive, when operating multiple engines.putting a coin across the track definitely pops the breaker and you have to push to reset. I certainly prefer it to the 1300 controller that is sold by Micro Trains, but that is just personal preference, there is not technical reason for that choice.

                      regards Garth

                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "joeszajko" <joeszajko@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I have not posted here in a bit, but I have read many of the replies and well, I think many people responded who have never used a Kato controller, and that bugs me a bit.
                      >
                      > Truth, the voltage could get too high...if you run trains at light speed then yes this could be an issue.
                      >
                      > Fact, kato is pure DC, it might be the "best" power pack of any scale. You would be fine using it for Z if you do not go too fast. If you run it too fast and ruin your loco's that is on you. It is better than the MRC 1300 or tech 2. The white marklin packs are in my mind junk.
                      >
                      > If you want the best DC controller for Z get a Jorger, it has EMF and your trains can run at a slow constant speed better than anything. The snail speed is ok, not close to the jorger.
                      >
                      > Well, it is your choice, but take a look at the "Pro Z" power pack, they are sometimes on sale on ebay. Quite frankly I think they are the same thing as the Kato. I do not own a pro Z power supply but boy do they look the same.
                      >
                      > As for Rokuhan, I do not own one but I was not impressed with the slow speed operation based on the video on youtube.
                      >
                      > My two cents baised on my personal equipment and what I have ran and seen with my eyes. All the best.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "heljan" <kbuxton71@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Is it okay to use a Kato Controller on Z Marklin loco's ??? - I find that Marklin controller does not allow loco's to run slowly at bottom position of dial - I use Kato controller on N scale which seems more sensitive and produces very slow speeds
                      > >
                      >
                    • joeszajko
                      I agree wtih you 100% if you are not the one at the controller, then never use a power supply that can go over the recommended voltage for Z. For some reason
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 25, 2013
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                        I agree wtih you 100% if you are not the one at the controller, then never use a power supply that can go over the recommended voltage for Z. For some reason there is a select group of people that always wants to see "how fast" they go. That can cause dammage for sure.

                        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth" <garth.a.hamilton@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > There are a large variety of Kato controllers and no model information was given. I have two of the least expensive of Kato Controllers, the blue box which uses a wall transformer for your connection to household AC, which I use for N-scale, yes they can be used for Z -scale, but I don't use them because when I am at shows I prefer to use a controller where guest operators can operate and there is not fear of them inadvertently putting too much juice to an engine. Yes you can glue a block on the front panel to limit the power output. There is also the consideration of what happens in a short as the unit has current protection, but I have not tested to see how fast it reacts. at 1.5 amps it is not excessive, when operating multiple engines.putting a coin across the track definitely pops the breaker and you have to push to reset. I certainly prefer it to the 1300 controller that is sold by Micro Trains, but that is just personal preference, there is not technical reason for that choice.
                        >
                        > regards Garth
                        >
                        > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "joeszajko" <joeszajko@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I have not posted here in a bit, but I have read many of the replies and well, I think many people responded who have never used a Kato controller, and that bugs me a bit.
                        > >
                        > > Truth, the voltage could get too high...if you run trains at light speed then yes this could be an issue.
                        > >
                        > > Fact, kato is pure DC, it might be the "best" power pack of any scale. You would be fine using it for Z if you do not go too fast. If you run it too fast and ruin your loco's that is on you. It is better than the MRC 1300 or tech 2. The white marklin packs are in my mind junk.
                        > >
                        > > If you want the best DC controller for Z get a Jorger, it has EMF and your trains can run at a slow constant speed better than anything. The snail speed is ok, not close to the jorger.
                        > >
                        > > Well, it is your choice, but take a look at the "Pro Z" power pack, they are sometimes on sale on ebay. Quite frankly I think they are the same thing as the Kato. I do not own a pro Z power supply but boy do they look the same.
                        > >
                        > > As for Rokuhan, I do not own one but I was not impressed with the slow speed operation based on the video on youtube.
                        > >
                        > > My two cents baised on my personal equipment and what I have ran and seen with my eyes. All the best.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "heljan" <kbuxton71@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Is it okay to use a Kato Controller on Z Marklin loco's ??? - I find that Marklin controller does not allow loco's to run slowly at bottom position of dial - I use Kato controller on N scale which seems more sensitive and produces very slow speeds
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
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