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Re: [Z_Scale] Re: .Table top modules...

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  • Loren Snyder
    Ron, I just measured a module height at 38 . We had no particular reason to establish that height, we just liked the looks of it. 38 is still a bit high for
    Message 1 of 25 , Mar 5, 2013
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      Ron,

      I just measured a module height at 38". We had no particular reason to
      establish that height, we just liked the looks of it. 38" is still a bit
      high for the very little ones, but much lower might invite just too many
      little hands. Some groups, (not Z), have put rope barriers up to keep folks
      back about a foot or so, but we don't like to present any barrier to the
      viewing public. True, we are taking a bit of a chance for wandering hands,
      but thus far no disasters.

      Loren




      -------Original Message-------

      From: ronaldjhurley
      Date: 3/5/2013 9:56:05 PM
      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: .Table top modules...

      Loren,
      Just what hight are your "short legs"?
      ron


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Gert Velthuizen
      Friendz, Just to protect your lay-out at what ever height I have seen clubs and people that install clear styrene sheets at the facia of their exhibition
      Message 2 of 25 , Mar 6, 2013
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        Friendz,

        Just to protect your lay-out at what ever height I have seen clubs and people that install clear styrene sheets at the facia of their exhibition material. Everybody is still able to watch the greatness of their efforts while that same subject is pretty much save for both friendly and not so friendly fingers.

        Greetz,

        Gert

        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        From: ljsnyder@...
        Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:49:42 -0800
        Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: .Table top modules...

        Ron,

        I just measured a module height at 38". We had no particular reason to
        establish that height, we just liked the looks of it. 38" is still a bit
        high for the very little ones, but much lower might invite just too many
        little hands. Some groups, (not Z), have put rope barriers up to keep folks
        back about a foot or so, but we don't like to present any barrier to the
        viewing public. True, we are taking a bit of a chance for wandering hands,
        but thus far no disasters.

        Loren
      • fr_germany2000
        Gert Velthuizen schrieb: Friendz, Just to protect your lay-out at what ever height I have seen clubs and people that install
        Message 3 of 25 , Mar 6, 2013
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          "Gert Velthuizen" <gertvelthuizen@...> schrieb:


          Friendz,

          Just to protect your lay-out at what ever height I have seen clubs and
          people that install clear styrene sheets at the facia of their
          exhibition material.

          Gert,

          I highly recomment this kind of protection at shows where many families
          with small children come such as Modellbahntreff Goeppingen. Otherwise
          you must always watch at children's fingers and remove them from the
          goodies.

          At expert model shows (such as Altenbeken, Zell or recently Neumuenster)
          this is not needed. I was running a very valuable pre-production
          loco sample the entire day at the module layout of Freundeskreis Spur Z
          Hamburg. No protection, no warning, no damage and no lost.

          See here:


          http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_01.wmv
          17 MB

          http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_02.wmv
          12 MB

          http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_03.wmv
          10,5 MB

          http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_04.wmv
          18 MB

          http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_05.wmv
          13,5 MB

          Harald

          --
          FREUDENREICH FEINWERKTECHNIK
          Harald Thom-Freudenreich
          Schwarzer Weg 1B
          D-18190 Sanitz / Mecklenburg
          Phone: +49 38209 49160 Fax: +49 38209 49161
          e-mail: FR.model@... web: www.FR-model.de


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Don Avila
          I have been with Mr Dave s layout since about 2005. His layout is closer to the floor than any other layout I have seen. Most of it is unprotected except
          Message 4 of 25 , Mar 6, 2013
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            I have been with Mr Dave's layout since about 2005. His layout is closer
            to the floor than any other layout I have seen. Most of it is
            "unprotected" except for one short area that is only about 12" off the
            floor and that does have an acrylic screen. I do not think anything has
            ever been taken. A couple of times we thought something was gone, but
            looking at some photos shows the item wasn't on the layout to begin with.
            I'd say the biggest problem are the little munchkin pointers -- kids just
            love to point and sometimes they get a little excited and can push a few
            cars onto their sides, but usually no big problem. A couple of years ago
            at a Houston show a couple of teenage girls showed up at the end of the
            show. It was painfully obvious they wanted a souvenir and were going to "grab
            & run". They didn't care what it was, just 'something'. Just VERY
            carefully keeping our eyes on them made them think this wasn't such a good
            idea. Other than that I don't think we have ever had any problems. We do
            have a bright yellow rope about 12" away from the table's perimeter, but
            other than that nothing.

            ..don

            On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:57 AM, <FR.model@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > "Gert Velthuizen" gertvelthuizen@...> schrieb:
            >
            > Friendz,
            >
            > Just to protect your lay-out at what ever height I have seen clubs and
            > people that install clear styrene sheets at the facia of their
            > exhibition material.
            >
            > Gert,
            >
            > I highly recomment this kind of protection at shows where many families
            > with small children come such as Modellbahntreff Goeppingen. Otherwise
            > you must always watch at children's fingers and remove them from the
            > goodies.
            >
            > At expert model shows (such as Altenbeken, Zell or recently Neumuenster)
            > this is not needed. I was running a very valuable pre-production
            > loco sample the entire day at the module layout of Freundeskreis Spur Z
            > Hamburg. No protection, no warning, no damage and no lost.
            >
            > See here:
            >
            > http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_01.wmv
            > 17 MB
            >
            > http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_02.wmv
            > 12 MB
            >
            > http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_03.wmv
            > 10,5 MB
            >
            > http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_04.wmv
            > 18 MB
            >
            > http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_05.wmv
            > 13,5 MB
            >
            > Harald
            >
            > --
            > FREUDENREICH FEINWERKTECHNIK
            > Harald Thom-Freudenreich
            > Schwarzer Weg 1B
            > D-18190 Sanitz / Mecklenburg
            > Phone: +49 38209 49160 Fax: +49 38209 49161
            > e-mail: FR.model@... web: www.FR-model.de
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >



            --
            *...don a * * **- Northern Ohio, USA*


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • FT. Dewey
            I say slap the parent and train the child. And the parent would probably sue you for assault and battery !! (sigh.) DEWEY   Sometimes the light at the end
            Message 5 of 25 , Mar 6, 2013
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              "I say slap the parent and train the child."

              And the parent would probably sue you for assault and battery !! (sigh.)

              DEWEY

               
              Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
              o o o o o o o . . . ______________________________
              o _____ || |
              .][__n_n_|DD[ ====_____ | |
              >(________|__|_[_________]_|____________________________|
              _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o!o!o o!o!o`
              -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


              ________________________________
              From: Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...>
              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 6:54 PM
              Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...

              Yes they can Dave.

              With SOZ, we went to a little trouble of making short legs and also add ons
              that can be attached to the shorter version to join with our taller, (50")
              ZBT brothers and sisters when we show with other groups. 

              Like you Dave, we like to show at the lower level as it makes it much more
              enjoyable for the Munchkin's and the tall oaks.  And for the 'other' larger
              scale boys, they can truly 'look down' on our Z and we don't feel the least
              bit offended.

              About the only down size to all this height issue, (yes, down size is a pun)
              is the fact that tiny tots do on occasion like to grab the sides of the
              modules and inadvertently create a magnitude 10 earthquake.  They even do
              that when they are in the arms of their parents when the taller legs are
              used. 

              You see, the real issue is that some parents just have no common sense to
              train their children not to touch things that aren't theirs.  It's always
              the parents fault.  I say slap the parent and train the child.

              Loren


              -------Original Message-------

              From: David George
              Date: 3/5/2013 3:43:39 PM
              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...


              All Z scale modular standards, I believe, can be adapted to table top level.
              I have a large Z bendtrack layout that I moved to table top level in 2002 so
              "Munchkins" and also oldsters in wheel chairs can enjoy the fun with out
              being elevated by others.
              All facets of the Zbendtrack standard are adhered to in my show layout
              except the height.
              Cordially,
              Mister Dave


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ------------------------------------

              Z-scale:  minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
              Yahoo! Groups Links



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Loren Snyder
              Dewey, Years ago when Bill Kronenberger was still alive he told me of one lady who picked up a structure off his layout surface and said to her child..... see,
              Message 6 of 25 , Mar 6, 2013
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                Dewey,

                Years ago when Bill Kronenberger was still alive he told me of one lady who
                picked up a structure off his layout surface and said to her child....."see,
                it isn't glued down" Then she placed the building back on the layout in a
                different position than how it faced originally and walked off. Bill came
                close to going to prison that day for what he wanted to do to that lady. He
                told me he was speechless.

                I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head. It is amazing
                some kids grow up to be decent citizens after the way they are not raised.

                The subject of rope barriers, signs, Plexiglass protective guards, even
                cattle prods, to control the masses has been discussed several times before.
                I guess the problem of touching and jarring will always be with display
                folks.

                It's the nature of the business, again...(sigh.)

                Loren




                -------Original Message-------

                From: FT. Dewey
                Date: 3/6/2013 9:19:43 AM
                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...

                "I say slap the parent and train the child."

                And the parent would probably sue you for assault and battery !! (sigh.)

                DEWEY



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ell
                A number of years back I was exhibiting with an HO scale modular group. One kid about 6 years old kept grabbing things. He even reached over a plexiglass
                Message 7 of 25 , Mar 6, 2013
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                  A number of years back I was exhibiting with an HO scale modular group. One kid about 6 years old kept grabbing things. He even reached over a plexiglass barrier that was about 16 inches high. His grandfather (I assumed) stood behind him all the time and just let the kid do what he wanted. That venue was the only time I have had something stolen from a module. I refused to exhibit there anymore.

                  I exhibit a 2 ft x 4 ft z-scale layout with a 16 in high hinged plexiglass sheet that goes around 3 sides. I set it up on a 30 in high table and have had very few problems. Most parents seem to do a pretty good job watching their little ones, but indeed the little ones can be quick.

                  Ell

                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren Snyder" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dewey,
                  >
                  > Years ago when Bill Kronenberger was still alive he told me of one lady who
                  > picked up a structure off his layout surface and said to her child....."see,
                  > it isn't glued down" Then she placed the building back on the layout in a
                  > different position than how it faced originally and walked off. Bill came
                  > close to going to prison that day for what he wanted to do to that lady. He
                  > told me he was speechless.
                  >
                  > I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head. It is amazing
                  > some kids grow up to be decent citizens after the way they are not raised.
                  >
                  > The subject of rope barriers, signs, Plexiglass protective guards, even
                  > cattle prods, to control the masses has been discussed several times before.
                  > I guess the problem of touching and jarring will always be with display
                  > folks.
                  >
                  > It's the nature of the business, again...(sigh.)
                  >
                  > Loren
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -------Original Message-------
                  >
                  > From: FT. Dewey
                  > Date: 3/6/2013 9:19:43 AM
                  > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...
                  >
                  > "I say slap the parent and train the child."
                  >
                  > And the parent would probably sue you for assault and battery !! (sigh.)
                  >
                  > DEWEY
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • FT. Dewey
                  I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head. I agree. With a baseball bat.I was just pointing out the possible legal consequences. DEWEY  
                  Message 8 of 25 , Mar 7, 2013
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                    "I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head. "

                    I agree. With a baseball bat.I was just pointing out the possible legal consequences.
                    DEWEY

                     
                    Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
                    o o o o o o o . . . ______________________________
                    o _____ || |
                    .][__n_n_|DD[ ====_____ | |
                    >(________|__|_[_________]_|____________________________|
                    _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o!o!o o!o!o`
                    -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


                    ________________________________
                    From: Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...>
                    To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 12:48 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...

                    Dewey,

                    Years ago when Bill Kronenberger was still alive he told me of one lady who
                    picked up a structure off his layout surface and said to her child....."see,
                    it isn't glued down"  Then she placed the building back on the layout in a
                    different position than how it faced originally and walked off.  Bill came
                    close to going to prison that day for what he wanted to do to that lady.  He
                    told me he was speechless.

                    I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head.  It is amazing
                    some kids grow up to be decent citizens after the way they are not raised.

                    The subject of rope barriers, signs, Plexiglass protective guards, even
                    cattle prods, to control the masses has been discussed several times before.
                    I guess the problem of touching and jarring will always be with display
                    folks. 

                    It's the nature of the business, again...(sigh.)

                    Loren




                    -------Original Message-------

                    From: FT. Dewey
                    Date: 3/6/2013 9:19:43 AM
                    To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...

                    "I say slap the parent and train the child."

                    And the parent would probably sue you for assault and battery !! (sigh.)

                    DEWEY



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    ------------------------------------

                    Z-scale:  minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
                    Yahoo! Groups Links



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Garth
                    I have a piece of sign plastic in black and white it could be any colour and it says KEEP YOUR COTTON PICKING HANDS OFF . The other sign I have seen was done
                    Message 9 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                      I have a piece of sign plastic in black and white it could be any colour and it says "KEEP YOUR COTTON PICKING HANDS OFF".

                      The other sign I have seen was done like a traffic prohibitive sign a red circle with a diagonal slash across it in inside the circle was a hand with a rail care held between thumb and fingers and it was hung on the skyboard and even the kids got that one and it created conversation between owner of display and the viewers.

                      regards Garth

                      I produces some interesting comments along the way but it does work.

                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren Snyder" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dewey,
                      >
                      > Years ago when Bill Kronenberger was still alive he told me of one lady who
                      > picked up a structure off his layout surface and said to her child....."see,
                      > it isn't glued down" Then she placed the building back on the layout in a
                      > different position than how it faced originally and walked off. Bill came
                      > close to going to prison that day for what he wanted to do to that lady. He
                      > told me he was speechless.
                      >
                      > I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head. It is amazing
                      > some kids grow up to be decent citizens after the way they are not raised.
                      >
                      > The subject of rope barriers, signs, Plexiglass protective guards, even
                      > cattle prods, to control the masses has been discussed several times before.
                      > I guess the problem of touching and jarring will always be with display
                      > folks.
                      >
                      > It's the nature of the business, again...(sigh.)
                      >
                      > Loren
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -------Original Message-------
                      >
                      > From: FT. Dewey
                      > Date: 3/6/2013 9:19:43 AM
                      > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...
                      >
                      > "I say slap the parent and train the child."
                      >
                      > And the parent would probably sue you for assault and battery !! (sigh.)
                      >
                      > DEWEY
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Ken
                      I have occasionally had the same urge. It is probably more effective, not to say legal, to make a scene and embarrass or humiliate parent - for example say
                      Message 10 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                        I have occasionally had the same urge. It is probably more effective, not to say legal, to make a scene and embarrass or humiliate parent - for example say loudly "Why haven't you taught him/her how to behave?" or some such. Lousy PR but they will not forget (and maybe never forgive) the experience. Sometimes the tongue can wound deeper than a sword.

                        Ken Armstrong
                        Irmo, SC

                        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "FT. Dewey" <kc5uci_2@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > "I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head. "
                        >
                        > I agree. With a baseball bat.I was just pointing out the possible legal consequences.
                        > DEWEY
                        >
                        >
                      • Don Avila
                        That does NOT work in LA. Ask Garth or Mr Dave or Mrs Dave. We had an ADULT screw up a kids toy and her argument was since it is out for the public to see it
                        Message 11 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                          That does NOT work in LA. Ask Garth or Mr Dave or Mrs Dave. We had an
                          ADULT screw up a kids toy and her argument was since it is out for the
                          public to see it is O.K. for the public to touch. I thought Mrs Dave George,
                          who is a licensed gun totter, was going to try it out.

                          ...d



                          On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Ken <kenarm322@...> wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          > I have occasionally had the same urge. It is probably more effective, not
                          > to say legal, to make a scene and embarrass or humiliate parent - for
                          > example say loudly "Why haven't you taught him/her how to behave?" or some
                          > such. Lousy PR but they will not forget (and maybe never forgive) the
                          > experience. Sometimes the tongue can wound deeper than a sword.
                          >
                          > Ken Armstrong
                          > Irmo, SC
                          >
                          > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "FT. Dewey" <kc5uci_2@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > "I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head. "
                          > >
                          > > I agree. With a baseball bat.I was just pointing out the possible legal
                          > consequences.
                          > > DEWEY
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Loren Snyder
                          Here s one for you Garth. I am so tempted to do like James Garner did in the movie, Support your local Sheriff . The jail cell was not quite completed due to
                          Message 12 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                            Here's one for you Garth.

                            I am so tempted to do like James Garner did in the movie, "Support your
                            local Sheriff". The jail cell was not quite completed due to the fact the
                            jail door had not been installed yet.

                            The sheriff took red paint and dribbled it on the floor outside the cell
                            before arresting Bruce Dern, the bad guy.

                            The sheriff told Bruce to get in the cell and Bruce asked "How do you plan
                            to keep me in this cell?" Then he noticed the red paint and asked what the
                            red color was, James said casually......"Oh that was where the last guy
                            tried to escape" Bruce jumped inside the cell enclosure quickly. One funny
                            moment in movie history.

                            I wonder if that would work at train shows?........"Oh that is where the
                            last guy was standing when he touched the module."




                            -------Original Message-------

                            From: Garth
                            Date: 03/08/13 07:17:01
                            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: .Table top modules...

                            I have a piece of sign plastic in black and white it could be any colour and
                            it says "KEEP YOUR COTTON PICKING HANDS OFF".

                            The other sign I have seen was done like a traffic prohibitive sign a red
                            circle with a diagonal slash across it in inside the circle was a hand with
                            a rail care held between thumb and fingers and it was hung on the skyboard
                            and even the kids got that one and it created conversation between owner of
                            display and the viewers.

                            regards Garth

                            It produces some interesting comments along the way but it does work.


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Loren Snyder
                            Don, It is folks like that lady who make you appreciate a trip to the dentist, a headache, gas, road blocks, tax increases, flat tires, and more.
                            Message 13 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                              Don,

                              It is folks like that lady who make you appreciate a trip to the dentist, a
                              headache, gas, road blocks, tax increases, flat tires, and more.

                              Seriously......I have found that raising my voice slightly so others around
                              can hear, and with a rather stern look on my face say, "Please don't touch"
                              is usually effective. Folks standing nearby look to see who the comment is
                              directed at and often times, the parent holding the child, (yes, in the
                              parent's arms even) then pull the child's hand back and tell the child not
                              to touch.


                              There's nothing quite like having folks see that you haven't taught little
                              Johnny not to touch without asking. Parents get the point and when they
                              tell their child not to touch, the teaching and learning moment occurs......
                              hopefully.

                              I know that little Johnny is going to need that lesson repeated a number of
                              times to become a part of his/her makeup, but at least it is a positive
                              moment in the life of the child and parent..........I hope.

                              Of course, there are some parents who are dumber than a sack of potatoes who
                              wouldn't understand even if you took them by the nap of the neck and
                              threatened to pull their eye teeth without anesthesia. Now that I think of
                              it, that isn't a bad idea.....know what I mean Verne?

                              On the flip side, when I see a parent pull Johnny's hand back and say "Don't
                              touch", I make it a point to cheerfully say with a big smile on my face,
                              Thank you, I appreciate that" That makes mom or dad feel good and they know
                              they are being watched and it is a positive moment of interaction between
                              attendee and modeler. It often gives opportunity for more interaction
                              especially if you then engage the child in conversation about trains. The
                              child feels special and the parent likes to have his/her child addressed in
                              a positive manner.

                              I believe it is Garth who will often have a car or two to let little folks
                              hold and examine.

                              There are some very positive moments at train shows, but it is the few bad
                              moments we remember for a life time.

                              Loren

                              PS. If Judy did try out her side arm, I'd testify, "Honest judge, the man
                              went for Judy's gun"



                              -------Original Message-------

                              From: Don Avila
                              Date: 03/08/13 07:52:57
                              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Correcting Parents - wasTable top modules...

                              That does NOT work in LA. Ask Garth or Mr Dave or Mrs Dave. We had an
                              ADULT screw up a kids toy and her argument was since it is out for the
                              public to see it is O.K. for the public to touch. I thought Mrs Dave George

                              who is a licensed gun totter, was going to try it out.

                              ...d




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Perry A Pollino
                              My favorite sign, and I have seen in on a couple displays. DO NOT TOUCH. If you want to touch soemthing take your kids to a petting zoo. I like the red circle
                              Message 14 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                My favorite sign, and I have seen in on a couple displays. DO NOT TOUCH. If you
                                want to touch soemthing take your kids to a petting zoo.

                                I like the red circle with slash throught it sign idea. It is a universal
                                symbol.  One of my friends has a sign.It reads

                                If you would like to handle my trains.
                                Please not the Handleing Fee.
                                Engine $125.00
                                Freight cars $45.00
                                Caboose $35.00
                                I take cash check creditcard and Pay pal.
                                Any un-authorised handling adds additional $25.00 fee.
                                I think any of us that has dislplayed to the public has experineced this
                                problem. I know I have several stories.

                                Perry

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Thomas Scheuzger
                                I like the sign at my veterinarian s office: Unattended Children Will Be Given a Cup of Espresso and a Puppy. Made me look twice... Tom
                                Message 15 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                  I like the sign at my veterinarian's office:

                                  Unattended Children Will Be Given a Cup of Espresso and a Puppy.

                                  Made me look twice...

                                  Tom


                                  On Mar 8, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Perry A Pollino wrote:

                                  > My favorite sign, and I have seen in on a couple displays. DO NOT TOUCH. If you
                                  > want to touch soemthing take your kids to a petting zoo.
                                  >
                                  > I like the red circle with slash throught it sign idea. It is a universal
                                  > symbol. One of my friends has a sign.It reads
                                  >
                                  > If you would like to handle my trains.
                                  > Please not the Handleing Fee.
                                  > Engine $125.00
                                  > Freight cars $45.00
                                  > Caboose $35.00
                                  > I take cash check creditcard and Pay pal.
                                  > Any un-authorised handling adds additional $25.00 fee.
                                  > I think any of us that has dislplayed to the public has experineced this
                                  > problem. I know I have several stories.
                                  >
                                  > Perry
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Z-scale: minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Loren Snyder
                                  Now that is worth spending money on and making a nice big vinyl sign that goes right beneath your group sign. Two extra atta boys for you Tom. ... From:
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                    Now that is worth spending money on and making a nice big vinyl sign that
                                    goes right beneath your group sign.

                                    Two extra 'atta boys' for you Tom.






                                    -------Original Message-------

                                    From: Thomas Scheuzger
                                    Date: 03/08/13 10:04:56
                                    To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Favorite sign

                                    I like the sign at my veterinarian's office:

                                    Unattended Children Will Be Given a Cup of Espresso and a Puppy.

                                    Made me look twice...

                                    Tom



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • mark2playz
                                    Considering this is a railroading forum why not just tie the parent to the tracks and ..... Those 1 foot gauge trains with the faces on them look like they
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                      Considering this is a railroading forum why not just tie the parent to the tracks and ..... Those 1 foot gauge trains with the faces on them look like they could teach a parent a lesson too.

                                      Mark

                                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren Snyder" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Don,
                                      >
                                      > It is folks like that lady who make you appreciate a trip to the dentist, a
                                      > headache, gas, road blocks, tax increases, flat tires, and more.
                                      >
                                      > Seriously......I have found that raising my voice slightly so others around
                                      > can hear, and with a rather stern look on my face say, "Please don't touch"
                                      > is usually effective. Folks standing nearby look to see who the comment is
                                      > directed at and often times, the parent holding the child, (yes, in the
                                      > parent's arms even) then pull the child's hand back and tell the child not
                                      > to touch.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > There's nothing quite like having folks see that you haven't taught little
                                      > Johnny not to touch without asking. Parents get the point and when they
                                      > tell their child not to touch, the teaching and learning moment occurs......
                                      > hopefully.
                                      >
                                      > I know that little Johnny is going to need that lesson repeated a number of
                                      > times to become a part of his/her makeup, but at least it is a positive
                                      > moment in the life of the child and parent..........I hope.
                                      >
                                      > Of course, there are some parents who are dumber than a sack of potatoes who
                                      > wouldn't understand even if you took them by the nap of the neck and
                                      > threatened to pull their eye teeth without anesthesia. Now that I think of
                                      > it, that isn't a bad idea.....know what I mean Verne?
                                      >
                                      > On the flip side, when I see a parent pull Johnny's hand back and say "Don't
                                      > touch", I make it a point to cheerfully say with a big smile on my face,
                                      > Thank you, I appreciate that" That makes mom or dad feel good and they know
                                      > they are being watched and it is a positive moment of interaction between
                                      > attendee and modeler. It often gives opportunity for more interaction
                                      > especially if you then engage the child in conversation about trains. The
                                      > child feels special and the parent likes to have his/her child addressed in
                                      > a positive manner.
                                      >
                                      > I believe it is Garth who will often have a car or two to let little folks
                                      > hold and examine.
                                      >
                                      > There are some very positive moments at train shows, but it is the few bad
                                      > moments we remember for a life time.
                                      >
                                      > Loren
                                      >
                                      > PS. If Judy did try out her side arm, I'd testify, "Honest judge, the man
                                      > went for Judy's gun"
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                      >
                                      > From: Don Avila
                                      > Date: 03/08/13 07:52:57
                                      > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Correcting Parents - wasTable top modules...
                                      >
                                      > That does NOT work in LA. Ask Garth or Mr Dave or Mrs Dave. We had an
                                      > ADULT screw up a kids toy and her argument was since it is out for the
                                      > public to see it is O.K. for the public to touch. I thought Mrs Dave George
                                      >
                                      > who is a licensed gun totter, was going to try it out.
                                      >
                                      > ...d
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                    • Nathan Leon
                                      Everyone has a lot of hours invested in their projects and some like to show them to the public.   Some do it out of pride, some as a service to encourage
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                        Everyone has a lot of hours invested in their projects and some like to show them to the public.   Some do it out of pride, some as a service to encourage new members to the hobby, and some for fun.   Can anyone really do enough damage to your module that you couldn't fix it?   It's not worth the bad PR to appear grumpy when we are ambassadors to the hobby.
                                         
                                        Damage is part of railroading anyways.  So let the anger go.  My grandkids destroy stuff, I fix it.  They will always remember the fun and their happy grandpa.  Behind the scenes I'm busy keeping the railroad running.  The same is true with the public.
                                         
                                        My 2 cents.

                                        --- On Fri, 3/8/13, mark2playz <mark.markham@...> wrote:


                                        From: mark2playz <mark.markham@...>
                                        Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Correcting Parents - wasTable top modules...
                                        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Friday, March 8, 2013, 11:05 AM

                                        Considering this is a railroading forum why not just tie the parent to the tracks and ..... Those 1 foot gauge trains with the faces on them look like they could teach a parent a lesson too.

                                        Mark
                                      • Don Avila
                                        Nathan I m not sure if you have had a layout at a show -- BUT Please don t touch Do NOT touch Keep your hands off Don t you understand English Dang it, do we
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                          Nathan

                                          I'm not sure if you have had a layout at a show -- BUT
                                          Please don't touch
                                          Do NOT touch
                                          Keep your hands off
                                          Don't you understand English
                                          Dang it, do we have to call the cops
                                          ....and these comments are addressed to the adults -- this is what we are
                                          talking about. Little kids point, and sometimes they overshoot -- and you
                                          get a few cars dumped over. It is a pain to set them back up in a working
                                          show, but that is not our main complaint. It is the adult who thinks they
                                          are a hot ticket and can do anything they want that cause 95% of the
                                          problems. Adults who have a large liquid soppy drink while holding the cup
                                          at arms length and over the layout. Wet liquid dumped on the layout is not
                                          just causing a little problem. They cause serious damage -- and as soon as
                                          it happens they take off. I have never seen one ask if they can pay for
                                          their EXPENSIVE damage. Believe me that is not what the exhibitioner is
                                          expecting.

                                          ...don



                                          On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Nathan Leon <wnleon@...> wrote:

                                          > **
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Everyone has a lot of hours invested in their projects and some like to
                                          > show them to the public. Some do it out of pride, some as a service to
                                          > encourage new members to the hobby, and some for fun. Can anyone really
                                          > do enough damage to your module that you couldn't fix it? It's not worth
                                          > the bad PR to appear grumpy when we are ambassadors to the hobby.
                                          >
                                          > Damage is part of railroading anyways. So let the anger go. My grandkids
                                          > destroy stuff, I fix it. They will always remember the fun and their happy
                                          > grandpa. Behind the scenes I'm busy keeping the railroad running. The
                                          > same is true with the public.
                                          >
                                          > My 2 cents.
                                          >
                                          > --- On Fri, 3/8/13, mark2playz <mark.markham@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > From: mark2playz <mark.markham@...>
                                          > Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Correcting Parents - wasTable top modules...
                                          > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Date: Friday, March 8, 2013, 11:05 AM
                                          >
                                          > Considering this is a railroading forum why not just tie the parent to the
                                          > tracks and ..... Those 1 foot gauge trains with the faces on them look like
                                          > they could teach a parent a lesson too.
                                          >
                                          > Mark
                                          >
                                          >



                                          --
                                          *...don a * * **- Northern Ohio, USA*


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                                        • Loren Snyder
                                          Nathan, I see your point, but that doesn t make the pain of suffering damage to our layouts any less palatable. Any damage is a step backward for the
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                            Nathan,

                                            I see your point, but that doesn't make the pain of suffering damage to our
                                            layouts any less palatable. Any damage is a step backward for the modeler.
                                            Will accidents happen?......you bet.

                                            We as module exhibitors need to be vigilant, diplomatic, kind, firm,
                                            informative, and friendly as you allude to. The only grumpy folks I have
                                            ever observed are the old guys in larger scales who like to set their trains
                                            a running and then sit back in the inner circle and yak while ignoring the
                                            obvious opportunity to share and grow the hobby.

                                            You are so right when you call us ambassadors. Some are good, some are
                                            great, and some are, well, maybe they shouldn't have shown up if it hurts
                                            that much to smile and talk to strangers.

                                            I think it safe to say we are all on the same page about being concerned
                                            about damage to our trains, good PR, and enjoying the hobby with all
                                            concerned.

                                            With that said, I do have to smile a bit when I consider Mark's solution of
                                            tying the adult to the tracks......
                                            There is a certain poetic justice to the idea. Of course, the clean up
                                            would be a bummer.

                                            One more thing regarding your comment, 'can anyone really do enough damage
                                            to your module that you couldn't fix it?'

                                            Probably not, but have you ever tried to repair a piece of track with
                                            soldered rail joiner that is an inch or two from a tunnel portal? I'd
                                            rather get a notice in the mail that I'd been drafted. At least I'd get a
                                            chuckle when I told the draft board I was 65 with failing eye sight and
                                            tremors :o)

                                            Happy modeling to all us big boys and our toys.

                                            Loren


                                            -------Original Message-------

                                            From: Nathan Leon
                                            Date: 3/8/2013 11:38:09 AM
                                            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Correcting Parents - wasTable top modules...

                                            Everyone has a lot of hours invested in their projects and some like to show
                                            them to the public. Some do it out of pride, some as a service to
                                            encourage new members to the hobby, and some for fun. Can anyone really do
                                            enough damage to your module that you couldn't fix it? It's not worth the
                                            bad PR to appear grumpy when we are ambassadors to the hobby.

                                            Damage is part of railroading anyways. So let the anger go. My grandkids
                                            destroy stuff, I fix it. They will always remember the fun and their happy
                                            grandpa. Behind the scenes I'm busy keeping the railroad running. The same
                                            is true with the public.

                                            My 2 cents.



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                                          • FT. Dewey
                                            I wonder if that would work at train shows?........ Oh that is where the last guy was standing when he touched the module. ... Perhaps a burnt dummy with a
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Mar 9, 2013
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                                              "I wonder if that would work at train shows?........"Oh that is where the
                                              last guy was standing when he touched the module."..."

                                              Perhaps a burnt dummy with a "High Voltage" sign near by......
                                              DEWEY

                                               
                                              Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
                                              o o o o o o o . . . ______________________________
                                              o _____ || |
                                              .][__n_n_|DD[ ====_____ | |
                                              >(________|__|_[_________]_|____________________________|
                                              _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o!o!o o!o!o`
                                              -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


                                              ________________________________
                                              From: Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...>
                                              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 10:29 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: .Table top modules...

                                              Here's one for you Garth.

                                              I am so tempted to do like James Garner did in the movie, "Support your
                                              local Sheriff".  The jail cell was not quite completed due to the fact the
                                              jail door had not been installed yet. 

                                              The sheriff took red paint and dribbled it on the floor outside the cell
                                              before arresting Bruce Dern, the bad guy.

                                              The sheriff told Bruce to get in the cell and Bruce asked "How do you plan
                                              to keep me in this cell?"  Then he noticed the red paint and asked what the
                                              red color was, James said casually......"Oh that was where the last guy
                                              tried to escape"  Bruce jumped inside the cell enclosure quickly.  One funny
                                              moment in movie history.

                                              I wonder if that would work at train shows?........"Oh that is where the
                                              last guy was standing when he touched the module."

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