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Re: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...

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  • Loren Snyder
    Yes they can Dave. With SOZ, we went to a little trouble of making short legs and also add ons that can be attached to the shorter version to join with our
    Message 1 of 25 , Mar 5, 2013
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      Yes they can Dave.

      With SOZ, we went to a little trouble of making short legs and also add ons
      that can be attached to the shorter version to join with our taller, (50")
      ZBT brothers and sisters when we show with other groups.

      Like you Dave, we like to show at the lower level as it makes it much more
      enjoyable for the Munchkin's and the tall oaks. And for the 'other' larger
      scale boys, they can truly 'look down' on our Z and we don't feel the least
      bit offended.

      About the only down size to all this height issue, (yes, down size is a pun)
      is the fact that tiny tots do on occasion like to grab the sides of the
      modules and inadvertently create a magnitude 10 earthquake. They even do
      that when they are in the arms of their parents when the taller legs are
      used.

      You see, the real issue is that some parents just have no common sense to
      train their children not to touch things that aren't theirs. It's always
      the parents fault. I say slap the parent and train the child.

      Loren


      -------Original Message-------

      From: David George
      Date: 3/5/2013 3:43:39 PM
      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...


      All Z scale modular standards, I believe, can be adapted to table top level.
      I have a large Z bendtrack layout that I moved to table top level in 2002 so
      "Munchkins" and also oldsters in wheel chairs can enjoy the fun with out
      being elevated by others.
      All facets of the Zbendtrack standard are adhered to in my show layout
      except the height.
      Cordially,
      Mister Dave


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • ronaldjhurley
      Loren, Just what hight are your short legs ? ron
      Message 2 of 25 , Mar 5, 2013
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        Loren,
        Just what hight are your "short legs"?
        ron

        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren Snyder" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yes they can Dave.
        >
        > With SOZ, we went to a little trouble of making short legs and also add ons
        > that can be attached to the shorter version to join with our taller, (50")
        > ZBT brothers and sisters when we show with other groups.
        >
        >
      • Loren Snyder
        Ron, I just measured a module height at 38 . We had no particular reason to establish that height, we just liked the looks of it. 38 is still a bit high for
        Message 3 of 25 , Mar 5, 2013
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          Ron,

          I just measured a module height at 38". We had no particular reason to
          establish that height, we just liked the looks of it. 38" is still a bit
          high for the very little ones, but much lower might invite just too many
          little hands. Some groups, (not Z), have put rope barriers up to keep folks
          back about a foot or so, but we don't like to present any barrier to the
          viewing public. True, we are taking a bit of a chance for wandering hands,
          but thus far no disasters.

          Loren




          -------Original Message-------

          From: ronaldjhurley
          Date: 3/5/2013 9:56:05 PM
          To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: .Table top modules...

          Loren,
          Just what hight are your "short legs"?
          ron


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gert Velthuizen
          Friendz, Just to protect your lay-out at what ever height I have seen clubs and people that install clear styrene sheets at the facia of their exhibition
          Message 4 of 25 , Mar 6, 2013
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            Friendz,

            Just to protect your lay-out at what ever height I have seen clubs and people that install clear styrene sheets at the facia of their exhibition material. Everybody is still able to watch the greatness of their efforts while that same subject is pretty much save for both friendly and not so friendly fingers.

            Greetz,

            Gert

            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
            From: ljsnyder@...
            Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:49:42 -0800
            Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: .Table top modules...

            Ron,

            I just measured a module height at 38". We had no particular reason to
            establish that height, we just liked the looks of it. 38" is still a bit
            high for the very little ones, but much lower might invite just too many
            little hands. Some groups, (not Z), have put rope barriers up to keep folks
            back about a foot or so, but we don't like to present any barrier to the
            viewing public. True, we are taking a bit of a chance for wandering hands,
            but thus far no disasters.

            Loren
          • fr_germany2000
            Gert Velthuizen schrieb: Friendz, Just to protect your lay-out at what ever height I have seen clubs and people that install
            Message 5 of 25 , Mar 6, 2013
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              "Gert Velthuizen" <gertvelthuizen@...> schrieb:


              Friendz,

              Just to protect your lay-out at what ever height I have seen clubs and
              people that install clear styrene sheets at the facia of their
              exhibition material.

              Gert,

              I highly recomment this kind of protection at shows where many families
              with small children come such as Modellbahntreff Goeppingen. Otherwise
              you must always watch at children's fingers and remove them from the
              goodies.

              At expert model shows (such as Altenbeken, Zell or recently Neumuenster)
              this is not needed. I was running a very valuable pre-production
              loco sample the entire day at the module layout of Freundeskreis Spur Z
              Hamburg. No protection, no warning, no damage and no lost.

              See here:


              http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_01.wmv
              17 MB

              http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_02.wmv
              12 MB

              http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_03.wmv
              10,5 MB

              http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_04.wmv
              18 MB

              http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_05.wmv
              13,5 MB

              Harald

              --
              FREUDENREICH FEINWERKTECHNIK
              Harald Thom-Freudenreich
              Schwarzer Weg 1B
              D-18190 Sanitz / Mecklenburg
              Phone: +49 38209 49160 Fax: +49 38209 49161
              e-mail: FR.model@... web: www.FR-model.de


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Don Avila
              I have been with Mr Dave s layout since about 2005. His layout is closer to the floor than any other layout I have seen. Most of it is unprotected except
              Message 6 of 25 , Mar 6, 2013
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                I have been with Mr Dave's layout since about 2005. His layout is closer
                to the floor than any other layout I have seen. Most of it is
                "unprotected" except for one short area that is only about 12" off the
                floor and that does have an acrylic screen. I do not think anything has
                ever been taken. A couple of times we thought something was gone, but
                looking at some photos shows the item wasn't on the layout to begin with.
                I'd say the biggest problem are the little munchkin pointers -- kids just
                love to point and sometimes they get a little excited and can push a few
                cars onto their sides, but usually no big problem. A couple of years ago
                at a Houston show a couple of teenage girls showed up at the end of the
                show. It was painfully obvious they wanted a souvenir and were going to "grab
                & run". They didn't care what it was, just 'something'. Just VERY
                carefully keeping our eyes on them made them think this wasn't such a good
                idea. Other than that I don't think we have ever had any problems. We do
                have a bright yellow rope about 12" away from the table's perimeter, but
                other than that nothing.

                ..don

                On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:57 AM, <FR.model@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > "Gert Velthuizen" gertvelthuizen@...> schrieb:
                >
                > Friendz,
                >
                > Just to protect your lay-out at what ever height I have seen clubs and
                > people that install clear styrene sheets at the facia of their
                > exhibition material.
                >
                > Gert,
                >
                > I highly recomment this kind of protection at shows where many families
                > with small children come such as Modellbahntreff Goeppingen. Otherwise
                > you must always watch at children's fingers and remove them from the
                > goodies.
                >
                > At expert model shows (such as Altenbeken, Zell or recently Neumuenster)
                > this is not needed. I was running a very valuable pre-production
                > loco sample the entire day at the module layout of Freundeskreis Spur Z
                > Hamburg. No protection, no warning, no damage and no lost.
                >
                > See here:
                >
                > http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_01.wmv
                > 17 MB
                >
                > http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_02.wmv
                > 12 MB
                >
                > http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_03.wmv
                > 10,5 MB
                >
                > http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_04.wmv
                > 18 MB
                >
                > http://www.rainer-tielke-modellbau.com/Neumuenster_2013_SJ_Ra_05.wmv
                > 13,5 MB
                >
                > Harald
                >
                > --
                > FREUDENREICH FEINWERKTECHNIK
                > Harald Thom-Freudenreich
                > Schwarzer Weg 1B
                > D-18190 Sanitz / Mecklenburg
                > Phone: +49 38209 49160 Fax: +49 38209 49161
                > e-mail: FR.model@... web: www.FR-model.de
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >



                --
                *...don a * * **- Northern Ohio, USA*


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • FT. Dewey
                I say slap the parent and train the child. And the parent would probably sue you for assault and battery !! (sigh.) DEWEY   Sometimes the light at the end
                Message 7 of 25 , Mar 6, 2013
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                  "I say slap the parent and train the child."

                  And the parent would probably sue you for assault and battery !! (sigh.)

                  DEWEY

                   
                  Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
                  o o o o o o o . . . ______________________________
                  o _____ || |
                  .][__n_n_|DD[ ====_____ | |
                  >(________|__|_[_________]_|____________________________|
                  _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o!o!o o!o!o`
                  -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


                  ________________________________
                  From: Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...>
                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 6:54 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...

                  Yes they can Dave.

                  With SOZ, we went to a little trouble of making short legs and also add ons
                  that can be attached to the shorter version to join with our taller, (50")
                  ZBT brothers and sisters when we show with other groups. 

                  Like you Dave, we like to show at the lower level as it makes it much more
                  enjoyable for the Munchkin's and the tall oaks.  And for the 'other' larger
                  scale boys, they can truly 'look down' on our Z and we don't feel the least
                  bit offended.

                  About the only down size to all this height issue, (yes, down size is a pun)
                  is the fact that tiny tots do on occasion like to grab the sides of the
                  modules and inadvertently create a magnitude 10 earthquake.  They even do
                  that when they are in the arms of their parents when the taller legs are
                  used. 

                  You see, the real issue is that some parents just have no common sense to
                  train their children not to touch things that aren't theirs.  It's always
                  the parents fault.  I say slap the parent and train the child.

                  Loren


                  -------Original Message-------

                  From: David George
                  Date: 3/5/2013 3:43:39 PM
                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...


                  All Z scale modular standards, I believe, can be adapted to table top level.
                  I have a large Z bendtrack layout that I moved to table top level in 2002 so
                  "Munchkins" and also oldsters in wheel chairs can enjoy the fun with out
                  being elevated by others.
                  All facets of the Zbendtrack standard are adhered to in my show layout
                  except the height.
                  Cordially,
                  Mister Dave


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ------------------------------------

                  Z-scale:  minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
                  Yahoo! Groups Links



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Loren Snyder
                  Dewey, Years ago when Bill Kronenberger was still alive he told me of one lady who picked up a structure off his layout surface and said to her child..... see,
                  Message 8 of 25 , Mar 6, 2013
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                    Dewey,

                    Years ago when Bill Kronenberger was still alive he told me of one lady who
                    picked up a structure off his layout surface and said to her child....."see,
                    it isn't glued down" Then she placed the building back on the layout in a
                    different position than how it faced originally and walked off. Bill came
                    close to going to prison that day for what he wanted to do to that lady. He
                    told me he was speechless.

                    I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head. It is amazing
                    some kids grow up to be decent citizens after the way they are not raised.

                    The subject of rope barriers, signs, Plexiglass protective guards, even
                    cattle prods, to control the masses has been discussed several times before.
                    I guess the problem of touching and jarring will always be with display
                    folks.

                    It's the nature of the business, again...(sigh.)

                    Loren




                    -------Original Message-------

                    From: FT. Dewey
                    Date: 3/6/2013 9:19:43 AM
                    To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...

                    "I say slap the parent and train the child."

                    And the parent would probably sue you for assault and battery !! (sigh.)

                    DEWEY



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ell
                    A number of years back I was exhibiting with an HO scale modular group. One kid about 6 years old kept grabbing things. He even reached over a plexiglass
                    Message 9 of 25 , Mar 6, 2013
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                      A number of years back I was exhibiting with an HO scale modular group. One kid about 6 years old kept grabbing things. He even reached over a plexiglass barrier that was about 16 inches high. His grandfather (I assumed) stood behind him all the time and just let the kid do what he wanted. That venue was the only time I have had something stolen from a module. I refused to exhibit there anymore.

                      I exhibit a 2 ft x 4 ft z-scale layout with a 16 in high hinged plexiglass sheet that goes around 3 sides. I set it up on a 30 in high table and have had very few problems. Most parents seem to do a pretty good job watching their little ones, but indeed the little ones can be quick.

                      Ell

                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren Snyder" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dewey,
                      >
                      > Years ago when Bill Kronenberger was still alive he told me of one lady who
                      > picked up a structure off his layout surface and said to her child....."see,
                      > it isn't glued down" Then she placed the building back on the layout in a
                      > different position than how it faced originally and walked off. Bill came
                      > close to going to prison that day for what he wanted to do to that lady. He
                      > told me he was speechless.
                      >
                      > I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head. It is amazing
                      > some kids grow up to be decent citizens after the way they are not raised.
                      >
                      > The subject of rope barriers, signs, Plexiglass protective guards, even
                      > cattle prods, to control the masses has been discussed several times before.
                      > I guess the problem of touching and jarring will always be with display
                      > folks.
                      >
                      > It's the nature of the business, again...(sigh.)
                      >
                      > Loren
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -------Original Message-------
                      >
                      > From: FT. Dewey
                      > Date: 3/6/2013 9:19:43 AM
                      > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...
                      >
                      > "I say slap the parent and train the child."
                      >
                      > And the parent would probably sue you for assault and battery !! (sigh.)
                      >
                      > DEWEY
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • FT. Dewey
                      I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head. I agree. With a baseball bat.I was just pointing out the possible legal consequences. DEWEY  
                      Message 10 of 25 , Mar 7, 2013
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                        "I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head. "

                        I agree. With a baseball bat.I was just pointing out the possible legal consequences.
                        DEWEY

                         
                        Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
                        o o o o o o o . . . ______________________________
                        o _____ || |
                        .][__n_n_|DD[ ====_____ | |
                        >(________|__|_[_________]_|____________________________|
                        _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o!o!o o!o!o`
                        -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


                        ________________________________
                        From: Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...>
                        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 12:48 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...

                        Dewey,

                        Years ago when Bill Kronenberger was still alive he told me of one lady who
                        picked up a structure off his layout surface and said to her child....."see,
                        it isn't glued down"  Then she placed the building back on the layout in a
                        different position than how it faced originally and walked off.  Bill came
                        close to going to prison that day for what he wanted to do to that lady.  He
                        told me he was speechless.

                        I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head.  It is amazing
                        some kids grow up to be decent citizens after the way they are not raised.

                        The subject of rope barriers, signs, Plexiglass protective guards, even
                        cattle prods, to control the masses has been discussed several times before.
                        I guess the problem of touching and jarring will always be with display
                        folks. 

                        It's the nature of the business, again...(sigh.)

                        Loren




                        -------Original Message-------

                        From: FT. Dewey
                        Date: 3/6/2013 9:19:43 AM
                        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...

                        "I say slap the parent and train the child."

                        And the parent would probably sue you for assault and battery !! (sigh.)

                        DEWEY



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        ------------------------------------

                        Z-scale:  minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
                        Yahoo! Groups Links



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Garth
                        I have a piece of sign plastic in black and white it could be any colour and it says KEEP YOUR COTTON PICKING HANDS OFF . The other sign I have seen was done
                        Message 11 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                          I have a piece of sign plastic in black and white it could be any colour and it says "KEEP YOUR COTTON PICKING HANDS OFF".

                          The other sign I have seen was done like a traffic prohibitive sign a red circle with a diagonal slash across it in inside the circle was a hand with a rail care held between thumb and fingers and it was hung on the skyboard and even the kids got that one and it created conversation between owner of display and the viewers.

                          regards Garth

                          I produces some interesting comments along the way but it does work.

                          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren Snyder" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Dewey,
                          >
                          > Years ago when Bill Kronenberger was still alive he told me of one lady who
                          > picked up a structure off his layout surface and said to her child....."see,
                          > it isn't glued down" Then she placed the building back on the layout in a
                          > different position than how it faced originally and walked off. Bill came
                          > close to going to prison that day for what he wanted to do to that lady. He
                          > told me he was speechless.
                          >
                          > I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head. It is amazing
                          > some kids grow up to be decent citizens after the way they are not raised.
                          >
                          > The subject of rope barriers, signs, Plexiglass protective guards, even
                          > cattle prods, to control the masses has been discussed several times before.
                          > I guess the problem of touching and jarring will always be with display
                          > folks.
                          >
                          > It's the nature of the business, again...(sigh.)
                          >
                          > Loren
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -------Original Message-------
                          >
                          > From: FT. Dewey
                          > Date: 3/6/2013 9:19:43 AM
                          > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] .Table top modules...
                          >
                          > "I say slap the parent and train the child."
                          >
                          > And the parent would probably sue you for assault and battery !! (sigh.)
                          >
                          > DEWEY
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Ken
                          I have occasionally had the same urge. It is probably more effective, not to say legal, to make a scene and embarrass or humiliate parent - for example say
                          Message 12 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                            I have occasionally had the same urge. It is probably more effective, not to say legal, to make a scene and embarrass or humiliate parent - for example say loudly "Why haven't you taught him/her how to behave?" or some such. Lousy PR but they will not forget (and maybe never forgive) the experience. Sometimes the tongue can wound deeper than a sword.

                            Ken Armstrong
                            Irmo, SC

                            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "FT. Dewey" <kc5uci_2@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > "I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head. "
                            >
                            > I agree. With a baseball bat.I was just pointing out the possible legal consequences.
                            > DEWEY
                            >
                            >
                          • Don Avila
                            That does NOT work in LA. Ask Garth or Mr Dave or Mrs Dave. We had an ADULT screw up a kids toy and her argument was since it is out for the public to see it
                            Message 13 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                              That does NOT work in LA. Ask Garth or Mr Dave or Mrs Dave. We had an
                              ADULT screw up a kids toy and her argument was since it is out for the
                              public to see it is O.K. for the public to touch. I thought Mrs Dave George,
                              who is a licensed gun totter, was going to try it out.

                              ...d



                              On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Ken <kenarm322@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              > I have occasionally had the same urge. It is probably more effective, not
                              > to say legal, to make a scene and embarrass or humiliate parent - for
                              > example say loudly "Why haven't you taught him/her how to behave?" or some
                              > such. Lousy PR but they will not forget (and maybe never forgive) the
                              > experience. Sometimes the tongue can wound deeper than a sword.
                              >
                              > Ken Armstrong
                              > Irmo, SC
                              >
                              > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "FT. Dewey" <kc5uci_2@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > "I still say the parent should be whooped up side the head. "
                              > >
                              > > I agree. With a baseball bat.I was just pointing out the possible legal
                              > consequences.
                              > > DEWEY
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Loren Snyder
                              Here s one for you Garth. I am so tempted to do like James Garner did in the movie, Support your local Sheriff . The jail cell was not quite completed due to
                              Message 14 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                Here's one for you Garth.

                                I am so tempted to do like James Garner did in the movie, "Support your
                                local Sheriff". The jail cell was not quite completed due to the fact the
                                jail door had not been installed yet.

                                The sheriff took red paint and dribbled it on the floor outside the cell
                                before arresting Bruce Dern, the bad guy.

                                The sheriff told Bruce to get in the cell and Bruce asked "How do you plan
                                to keep me in this cell?" Then he noticed the red paint and asked what the
                                red color was, James said casually......"Oh that was where the last guy
                                tried to escape" Bruce jumped inside the cell enclosure quickly. One funny
                                moment in movie history.

                                I wonder if that would work at train shows?........"Oh that is where the
                                last guy was standing when he touched the module."




                                -------Original Message-------

                                From: Garth
                                Date: 03/08/13 07:17:01
                                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: .Table top modules...

                                I have a piece of sign plastic in black and white it could be any colour and
                                it says "KEEP YOUR COTTON PICKING HANDS OFF".

                                The other sign I have seen was done like a traffic prohibitive sign a red
                                circle with a diagonal slash across it in inside the circle was a hand with
                                a rail care held between thumb and fingers and it was hung on the skyboard
                                and even the kids got that one and it created conversation between owner of
                                display and the viewers.

                                regards Garth

                                It produces some interesting comments along the way but it does work.


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Loren Snyder
                                Don, It is folks like that lady who make you appreciate a trip to the dentist, a headache, gas, road blocks, tax increases, flat tires, and more.
                                Message 15 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                  Don,

                                  It is folks like that lady who make you appreciate a trip to the dentist, a
                                  headache, gas, road blocks, tax increases, flat tires, and more.

                                  Seriously......I have found that raising my voice slightly so others around
                                  can hear, and with a rather stern look on my face say, "Please don't touch"
                                  is usually effective. Folks standing nearby look to see who the comment is
                                  directed at and often times, the parent holding the child, (yes, in the
                                  parent's arms even) then pull the child's hand back and tell the child not
                                  to touch.


                                  There's nothing quite like having folks see that you haven't taught little
                                  Johnny not to touch without asking. Parents get the point and when they
                                  tell their child not to touch, the teaching and learning moment occurs......
                                  hopefully.

                                  I know that little Johnny is going to need that lesson repeated a number of
                                  times to become a part of his/her makeup, but at least it is a positive
                                  moment in the life of the child and parent..........I hope.

                                  Of course, there are some parents who are dumber than a sack of potatoes who
                                  wouldn't understand even if you took them by the nap of the neck and
                                  threatened to pull their eye teeth without anesthesia. Now that I think of
                                  it, that isn't a bad idea.....know what I mean Verne?

                                  On the flip side, when I see a parent pull Johnny's hand back and say "Don't
                                  touch", I make it a point to cheerfully say with a big smile on my face,
                                  Thank you, I appreciate that" That makes mom or dad feel good and they know
                                  they are being watched and it is a positive moment of interaction between
                                  attendee and modeler. It often gives opportunity for more interaction
                                  especially if you then engage the child in conversation about trains. The
                                  child feels special and the parent likes to have his/her child addressed in
                                  a positive manner.

                                  I believe it is Garth who will often have a car or two to let little folks
                                  hold and examine.

                                  There are some very positive moments at train shows, but it is the few bad
                                  moments we remember for a life time.

                                  Loren

                                  PS. If Judy did try out her side arm, I'd testify, "Honest judge, the man
                                  went for Judy's gun"



                                  -------Original Message-------

                                  From: Don Avila
                                  Date: 03/08/13 07:52:57
                                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Correcting Parents - wasTable top modules...

                                  That does NOT work in LA. Ask Garth or Mr Dave or Mrs Dave. We had an
                                  ADULT screw up a kids toy and her argument was since it is out for the
                                  public to see it is O.K. for the public to touch. I thought Mrs Dave George

                                  who is a licensed gun totter, was going to try it out.

                                  ...d




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Perry A Pollino
                                  My favorite sign, and I have seen in on a couple displays. DO NOT TOUCH. If you want to touch soemthing take your kids to a petting zoo. I like the red circle
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                    My favorite sign, and I have seen in on a couple displays. DO NOT TOUCH. If you
                                    want to touch soemthing take your kids to a petting zoo.

                                    I like the red circle with slash throught it sign idea. It is a universal
                                    symbol.  One of my friends has a sign.It reads

                                    If you would like to handle my trains.
                                    Please not the Handleing Fee.
                                    Engine $125.00
                                    Freight cars $45.00
                                    Caboose $35.00
                                    I take cash check creditcard and Pay pal.
                                    Any un-authorised handling adds additional $25.00 fee.
                                    I think any of us that has dislplayed to the public has experineced this
                                    problem. I know I have several stories.

                                    Perry

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Thomas Scheuzger
                                    I like the sign at my veterinarian s office: Unattended Children Will Be Given a Cup of Espresso and a Puppy. Made me look twice... Tom
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                      I like the sign at my veterinarian's office:

                                      Unattended Children Will Be Given a Cup of Espresso and a Puppy.

                                      Made me look twice...

                                      Tom


                                      On Mar 8, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Perry A Pollino wrote:

                                      > My favorite sign, and I have seen in on a couple displays. DO NOT TOUCH. If you
                                      > want to touch soemthing take your kids to a petting zoo.
                                      >
                                      > I like the red circle with slash throught it sign idea. It is a universal
                                      > symbol. One of my friends has a sign.It reads
                                      >
                                      > If you would like to handle my trains.
                                      > Please not the Handleing Fee.
                                      > Engine $125.00
                                      > Freight cars $45.00
                                      > Caboose $35.00
                                      > I take cash check creditcard and Pay pal.
                                      > Any un-authorised handling adds additional $25.00 fee.
                                      > I think any of us that has dislplayed to the public has experineced this
                                      > problem. I know I have several stories.
                                      >
                                      > Perry
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > Z-scale: minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Loren Snyder
                                      Now that is worth spending money on and making a nice big vinyl sign that goes right beneath your group sign. Two extra atta boys for you Tom. ... From:
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                        Now that is worth spending money on and making a nice big vinyl sign that
                                        goes right beneath your group sign.

                                        Two extra 'atta boys' for you Tom.






                                        -------Original Message-------

                                        From: Thomas Scheuzger
                                        Date: 03/08/13 10:04:56
                                        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Favorite sign

                                        I like the sign at my veterinarian's office:

                                        Unattended Children Will Be Given a Cup of Espresso and a Puppy.

                                        Made me look twice...

                                        Tom



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • mark2playz
                                        Considering this is a railroading forum why not just tie the parent to the tracks and ..... Those 1 foot gauge trains with the faces on them look like they
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Considering this is a railroading forum why not just tie the parent to the tracks and ..... Those 1 foot gauge trains with the faces on them look like they could teach a parent a lesson too.

                                          Mark

                                          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren Snyder" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Don,
                                          >
                                          > It is folks like that lady who make you appreciate a trip to the dentist, a
                                          > headache, gas, road blocks, tax increases, flat tires, and more.
                                          >
                                          > Seriously......I have found that raising my voice slightly so others around
                                          > can hear, and with a rather stern look on my face say, "Please don't touch"
                                          > is usually effective. Folks standing nearby look to see who the comment is
                                          > directed at and often times, the parent holding the child, (yes, in the
                                          > parent's arms even) then pull the child's hand back and tell the child not
                                          > to touch.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > There's nothing quite like having folks see that you haven't taught little
                                          > Johnny not to touch without asking. Parents get the point and when they
                                          > tell their child not to touch, the teaching and learning moment occurs......
                                          > hopefully.
                                          >
                                          > I know that little Johnny is going to need that lesson repeated a number of
                                          > times to become a part of his/her makeup, but at least it is a positive
                                          > moment in the life of the child and parent..........I hope.
                                          >
                                          > Of course, there are some parents who are dumber than a sack of potatoes who
                                          > wouldn't understand even if you took them by the nap of the neck and
                                          > threatened to pull their eye teeth without anesthesia. Now that I think of
                                          > it, that isn't a bad idea.....know what I mean Verne?
                                          >
                                          > On the flip side, when I see a parent pull Johnny's hand back and say "Don't
                                          > touch", I make it a point to cheerfully say with a big smile on my face,
                                          > Thank you, I appreciate that" That makes mom or dad feel good and they know
                                          > they are being watched and it is a positive moment of interaction between
                                          > attendee and modeler. It often gives opportunity for more interaction
                                          > especially if you then engage the child in conversation about trains. The
                                          > child feels special and the parent likes to have his/her child addressed in
                                          > a positive manner.
                                          >
                                          > I believe it is Garth who will often have a car or two to let little folks
                                          > hold and examine.
                                          >
                                          > There are some very positive moments at train shows, but it is the few bad
                                          > moments we remember for a life time.
                                          >
                                          > Loren
                                          >
                                          > PS. If Judy did try out her side arm, I'd testify, "Honest judge, the man
                                          > went for Judy's gun"
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > -------Original Message-------
                                          >
                                          > From: Don Avila
                                          > Date: 03/08/13 07:52:57
                                          > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Correcting Parents - wasTable top modules...
                                          >
                                          > That does NOT work in LA. Ask Garth or Mr Dave or Mrs Dave. We had an
                                          > ADULT screw up a kids toy and her argument was since it is out for the
                                          > public to see it is O.K. for the public to touch. I thought Mrs Dave George
                                          >
                                          > who is a licensed gun totter, was going to try it out.
                                          >
                                          > ...d
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                        • Nathan Leon
                                          Everyone has a lot of hours invested in their projects and some like to show them to the public.   Some do it out of pride, some as a service to encourage
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                            Everyone has a lot of hours invested in their projects and some like to show them to the public.   Some do it out of pride, some as a service to encourage new members to the hobby, and some for fun.   Can anyone really do enough damage to your module that you couldn't fix it?   It's not worth the bad PR to appear grumpy when we are ambassadors to the hobby.
                                             
                                            Damage is part of railroading anyways.  So let the anger go.  My grandkids destroy stuff, I fix it.  They will always remember the fun and their happy grandpa.  Behind the scenes I'm busy keeping the railroad running.  The same is true with the public.
                                             
                                            My 2 cents.

                                            --- On Fri, 3/8/13, mark2playz <mark.markham@...> wrote:


                                            From: mark2playz <mark.markham@...>
                                            Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Correcting Parents - wasTable top modules...
                                            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Friday, March 8, 2013, 11:05 AM

                                            Considering this is a railroading forum why not just tie the parent to the tracks and ..... Those 1 foot gauge trains with the faces on them look like they could teach a parent a lesson too.

                                            Mark
                                          • Don Avila
                                            Nathan I m not sure if you have had a layout at a show -- BUT Please don t touch Do NOT touch Keep your hands off Don t you understand English Dang it, do we
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                              Nathan

                                              I'm not sure if you have had a layout at a show -- BUT
                                              Please don't touch
                                              Do NOT touch
                                              Keep your hands off
                                              Don't you understand English
                                              Dang it, do we have to call the cops
                                              ....and these comments are addressed to the adults -- this is what we are
                                              talking about. Little kids point, and sometimes they overshoot -- and you
                                              get a few cars dumped over. It is a pain to set them back up in a working
                                              show, but that is not our main complaint. It is the adult who thinks they
                                              are a hot ticket and can do anything they want that cause 95% of the
                                              problems. Adults who have a large liquid soppy drink while holding the cup
                                              at arms length and over the layout. Wet liquid dumped on the layout is not
                                              just causing a little problem. They cause serious damage -- and as soon as
                                              it happens they take off. I have never seen one ask if they can pay for
                                              their EXPENSIVE damage. Believe me that is not what the exhibitioner is
                                              expecting.

                                              ...don



                                              On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Nathan Leon <wnleon@...> wrote:

                                              > **
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Everyone has a lot of hours invested in their projects and some like to
                                              > show them to the public. Some do it out of pride, some as a service to
                                              > encourage new members to the hobby, and some for fun. Can anyone really
                                              > do enough damage to your module that you couldn't fix it? It's not worth
                                              > the bad PR to appear grumpy when we are ambassadors to the hobby.
                                              >
                                              > Damage is part of railroading anyways. So let the anger go. My grandkids
                                              > destroy stuff, I fix it. They will always remember the fun and their happy
                                              > grandpa. Behind the scenes I'm busy keeping the railroad running. The
                                              > same is true with the public.
                                              >
                                              > My 2 cents.
                                              >
                                              > --- On Fri, 3/8/13, mark2playz <mark.markham@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > From: mark2playz <mark.markham@...>
                                              > Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Correcting Parents - wasTable top modules...
                                              > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date: Friday, March 8, 2013, 11:05 AM
                                              >
                                              > Considering this is a railroading forum why not just tie the parent to the
                                              > tracks and ..... Those 1 foot gauge trains with the faces on them look like
                                              > they could teach a parent a lesson too.
                                              >
                                              > Mark
                                              >
                                              >



                                              --
                                              *...don a * * **- Northern Ohio, USA*


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Loren Snyder
                                              Nathan, I see your point, but that doesn t make the pain of suffering damage to our layouts any less palatable. Any damage is a step backward for the
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Mar 8, 2013
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                                                Nathan,

                                                I see your point, but that doesn't make the pain of suffering damage to our
                                                layouts any less palatable. Any damage is a step backward for the modeler.
                                                Will accidents happen?......you bet.

                                                We as module exhibitors need to be vigilant, diplomatic, kind, firm,
                                                informative, and friendly as you allude to. The only grumpy folks I have
                                                ever observed are the old guys in larger scales who like to set their trains
                                                a running and then sit back in the inner circle and yak while ignoring the
                                                obvious opportunity to share and grow the hobby.

                                                You are so right when you call us ambassadors. Some are good, some are
                                                great, and some are, well, maybe they shouldn't have shown up if it hurts
                                                that much to smile and talk to strangers.

                                                I think it safe to say we are all on the same page about being concerned
                                                about damage to our trains, good PR, and enjoying the hobby with all
                                                concerned.

                                                With that said, I do have to smile a bit when I consider Mark's solution of
                                                tying the adult to the tracks......
                                                There is a certain poetic justice to the idea. Of course, the clean up
                                                would be a bummer.

                                                One more thing regarding your comment, 'can anyone really do enough damage
                                                to your module that you couldn't fix it?'

                                                Probably not, but have you ever tried to repair a piece of track with
                                                soldered rail joiner that is an inch or two from a tunnel portal? I'd
                                                rather get a notice in the mail that I'd been drafted. At least I'd get a
                                                chuckle when I told the draft board I was 65 with failing eye sight and
                                                tremors :o)

                                                Happy modeling to all us big boys and our toys.

                                                Loren


                                                -------Original Message-------

                                                From: Nathan Leon
                                                Date: 3/8/2013 11:38:09 AM
                                                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Correcting Parents - wasTable top modules...

                                                Everyone has a lot of hours invested in their projects and some like to show
                                                them to the public. Some do it out of pride, some as a service to
                                                encourage new members to the hobby, and some for fun. Can anyone really do
                                                enough damage to your module that you couldn't fix it? It's not worth the
                                                bad PR to appear grumpy when we are ambassadors to the hobby.

                                                Damage is part of railroading anyways. So let the anger go. My grandkids
                                                destroy stuff, I fix it. They will always remember the fun and their happy
                                                grandpa. Behind the scenes I'm busy keeping the railroad running. The same
                                                is true with the public.

                                                My 2 cents.



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • FT. Dewey
                                                I wonder if that would work at train shows?........ Oh that is where the last guy was standing when he touched the module. ... Perhaps a burnt dummy with a
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Mar 9, 2013
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  "I wonder if that would work at train shows?........"Oh that is where the
                                                  last guy was standing when he touched the module."..."

                                                  Perhaps a burnt dummy with a "High Voltage" sign near by......
                                                  DEWEY

                                                   
                                                  Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
                                                  o o o o o o o . . . ______________________________
                                                  o _____ || |
                                                  .][__n_n_|DD[ ====_____ | |
                                                  >(________|__|_[_________]_|____________________________|
                                                  _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o!o!o o!o!o`
                                                  -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


                                                  ________________________________
                                                  From: Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...>
                                                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 10:29 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: .Table top modules...

                                                  Here's one for you Garth.

                                                  I am so tempted to do like James Garner did in the movie, "Support your
                                                  local Sheriff".  The jail cell was not quite completed due to the fact the
                                                  jail door had not been installed yet. 

                                                  The sheriff took red paint and dribbled it on the floor outside the cell
                                                  before arresting Bruce Dern, the bad guy.

                                                  The sheriff told Bruce to get in the cell and Bruce asked "How do you plan
                                                  to keep me in this cell?"  Then he noticed the red paint and asked what the
                                                  red color was, James said casually......"Oh that was where the last guy
                                                  tried to escape"  Bruce jumped inside the cell enclosure quickly.  One funny
                                                  moment in movie history.

                                                  I wonder if that would work at train shows?........"Oh that is where the
                                                  last guy was standing when he touched the module."

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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