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Re: [Z_Scale] Why 1:220 ?

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  • Loren Snyder
    Reynard, Some good and interesting info has been posted and I think we are all enjoying catching up on our Z history. We certainly have a wealth of product
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 1, 2012
      Reynard,

      Some good and interesting info has been posted and I think we are all
      enjoying catching up on our Z history.

      We certainly have a wealth of product lines compared to the early days of Z.

      A great time to be modeling,

      Loren




      -------Original Message-------

      From: Reynard Wellman
      Date: 9/1/2012 10:56:50 AM
      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Why 1:220 ?

      Hi Loren,
      I also suspect that it had something to do with the
      track gauge of exactly 6.5 mm that Marklin came up with
      and the diameter of the available motors that would
      work within that range.

      We Electro/Mechanical folks have to design around numbers
      for solids. (Organics are another matter entirely, just add water
      and fertilizers ;>)

      Reynard
      http://www.micronart.com



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Alan Cox
      ... But not always sane ones. CD capacity came from the length of a particular classical piece. T scale model trains come from someone looking at the top of
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 1, 2012
        > We Electro/Mechanical folks have to design around numbers
        > for solids. (Organics are another matter entirely, just add water
        > and fertilizers ;>)

        But not always sane ones. CD capacity came from the length of a
        particular classical piece. T scale model trains come from someone
        looking at the top of their laptop and thinking I want my trainset to fit
        that space.
      • Kevin Brady
        Hi Alan,all, Read Prey by Michael Crichton. That might help or hurt. :-) Best,Kev ... -- Dr. Dirt s Weathering Service [Non-text portions of this message
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 1, 2012
          Hi Alan,all,
          Read 'Prey" by Michael Crichton.

          That might help or hurt. :-)

          Best,Kev

          On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Alan Cox <alan@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > > We Electro/Mechanical folks have to design around numbers
          > > for solids. (Organics are another matter entirely, just add water
          > > and fertilizers ;>)
          >
          > But not always sane ones. CD capacity came from the length of a
          > particular classical piece. T scale model trains come from someone
          > looking at the top of their laptop and thinking I want my trainset to fit
          > that space.
          >
          >
          >



          --
          Dr. Dirt's Weathering Service


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Larry
          Here is a rough translation taken from the Koll s Intro portion of the book on Maerklin Z scale. Please excuse all the errors. I did say rough Quote: From the
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 1, 2012
            Here is a rough translation taken from the Koll's Intro portion of the
            book on Maerklin Z scale.

            Please excuse all the errors. I did say rough

            Quote:

            From the outset there were toy railways in different sizes. Also the
            tracks had different mass, so that the locomotives and car manufacturer
            on the tracks of the other one could not drive. That changed only, after
            Maerklin had standardized the track widths and most offerers had adapted.

            Already 1895 offered "l" (45 mm) to Maerklin apart from the then most
            common track width the larger systems "2" (51 mm) and "3"(72 mm), which
            were manufactured however in very small numbers of items after
            vorbestellung and therefore today are extremely rare. The track width
            "0" (32 mm), likewise already 1895 in the program, could be offered
            clearly more cheaply. Still smaller courses were offered to 1902 by the
            Nuernberger company Schoenner: "00" (30 mm) and "000" (23 mm). There
            were however in addition no switches. 1912 brought then a table course,
            the "Liliput railway" (23 mm) to Maerklin, which was offered to 1932.
            Also it did not possess switches, which did not promote its success. The
            production of smaller courses made problems, because one could make the
            drive smaller at that time not yet at will.1923 appeared then the first
            toy course in the track width 16.5 mm, of Bing in Nuernberg manufactured
            for the Englishman W. J. Bassett Bassett-Lowke. 1925 manufactured the
            French company JEP their "Mignon trains" with same track width. Only
            1935, ten years later, came the companies Trix and Maerklin nearly at
            the same time with its track width 00 (16.5 mm. Yardstick 1:87). Saving
            in material and thus a small price, as well as space saving, were the
            motives for the introduction on the market. The toy courses had not
            formed themselves as table courses angepriesen at that time and yet as
            model courses. This changed however in the run the time, when one was
            able to manufacture ever nature-more faithful models.

            The stationary model railway facility had become now the worthwhile goal
            of the railway friends, but it caused a very large space requirement,
            wanted one also only to some extent realistic railway facilities to
            develop. Also after that 2. World war was not missing it at attempts to
            make the toy railway smaller further. Thus the "Mignon" railway from
            1947 to 1950 (track width 10 mm became. Yardstick 1:150) offered,
            obviously their time too far ahead. 1950 saw many model railway friends
            in the track width "TT" (12 mm, yardstick 1:120) the chance to carry out
            a realistic model railway facility. The company Rokal developed within a
            short time a rich model course program, which however 1971 was stopped.
            In the GDR the track width "TT" came 1958 on the market and could create
            itself a large friend circle, which is still very active also today.

            1959 appeared Trix with unpowered soil runners "Minitrix" on a scale
            1:180. 1961 came Arnold with the electrical "Arnold Rapido" (9 mm.
            Yardstick 1:200), which was improved from year to year and then the
            yardstick 1:160, track width "N" received. 1964 brought also the company
            Piko a course in track width "N" and Minitrix electric appeared now with
            track system.

            Meat man came 1968 first with a truck course and one year later also
            with tracks into track width "N". In this yardstick now a large railway
            facility at small place could be realized very well. To today continuous
            success of the track width "N" appeared fast and led also in Goeppingen,
            with Maerklin to activities.

            one began 1962 with the development of a course in track width "N",
            which was final with production stage two years later. One was not
            convinced however of an economic success and began with the development
            of a still smaller model railway. Investigations on the dependence of
            the manufacturing costs on the yardstick had resulted in that a
            continuous lowering of the costs with the reduction took place. If one
            made smaller however too strongly, the costs rose again dramatically.
            Maerklin selected a yardstick, which lay still reliably in the range of
            economy: 1:220 (track width 6.5 mm).

            one cleared first the model course municipality in the magazine Miba for
            1968 up over the fact that Maerklin had the trace "N" in the drawer, but
            is evenly not convinced of this track width. That worked something
            disconcerting, where itself nevertheless straight only meat man had
            decided to mix together with "N" could not however success in the long
            run not stop.

            The considerations assumed with Maerklin

            1. should be obtained during the introduction of a new track width a
            maximum space gain. Here the yardstick 1:220 of the track width "Z"
            offers clear advantages in relation to the yardstick 1:160 of the track
            width "N".

            2. It would be more economical to create its own standard to be than an
            offerer under many with the track width "N".

            3. The however position with the superlativ "smallest electric train of
            the world" would offer large advantages in press and advertisement.

            4. It could not be correct for a market leader with large tradition to
            attach itself to a trend but one would have to make a trend.

            5. One would select children as a Kem target group not, but adults.

            6. The "mini club" should be positioned as gift.

            7. One the women strengthened to respond, because Mrs. small, nice
            things to like.

            Unquote.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • dks2855
            And the last of the floppy discs, the 3-1/2 inch, was designed to fit into a standard shirt pocket. A few others: Barometric pressure in inches, temperature in
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 1, 2012
              And the last of the floppy discs, the 3-1/2 inch, was designed to fit into a standard shirt pocket.

              A few others:
              Barometric pressure in inches, temperature in Fahrenheit degrees, AM and FM broadcast bands, all were totally arbitrary--someone just made a few tick marks on a stick, or used whatever hardware was at hand to start sending and receiving radio transmissions with no regard for the frequency.

              Regards,
              David

              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Alan Cox <alan@...> wrote:
              >
              > > We Electro/Mechanical folks have to design around numbers
              > > for solids. (Organics are another matter entirely, just add water
              > > and fertilizers ;>)
              >
              > But not always sane ones. CD capacity came from the length of a
              > particular classical piece. T scale model trains come from someone
              > looking at the top of their laptop and thinking I want my trainset to fit
              > that space.
              >
            • Uwe Liermann
              Hello Larry, thank you for your translation... ... Meat man means the modeltrain manufacturer Fleischmann :
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 2, 2012
                Hello Larry,

                thank you for your translation...

                > Please excuse all the errors. I did say rough

                that's ok with me, until I came to this line:

                > Meat man came 1968 first with a truck course...

                "Meat man" means the modeltrain manufacturer "Fleischmann":

                http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleischmann_%28Unternehmen%29

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleischmann_%28model_railroads%29

                ...but I have to admit that "Meat man" is the direct translation for the
                pure words. I don't know which translation software you used, since I
                got the correct result ("Fleischmann" = "Fleischmann") in Google.


                An interesting detail for Fleischmann can be found in the German
                Wikipedia text. Fleischmann also had a slotcar system from 1967 until
                1989, which is stated to be better then the market leader Carrera:

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrera_%28slot_car_brand%29

                and that the model quality from Fleischmann slotcars were better then
                all other brands, except the Maerklin Sprint system.

                GreetingZ

                Uwe
              • mark2playz
                All, Thanks for a lot of interesting info. I was hoping for an interesting story: a rational fraction of some obsure european scale (like O vs. HO ) or a
                Message 7 of 22 , Sep 4, 2012
                  All,
                  Thanks for a lot of interesting info. I was hoping for an "interesting" story: a rational fraction of some obsure european scale (like "O" vs. "HO") or a story like David's that rolling stock had to fit in the pocket.

                  Mark

                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "dks2855" <david@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > And the last of the floppy discs, the 3-1/2 inch, was designed to fit into a standard shirt pocket.
                  >
                  > A few others:
                  > Barometric pressure in inches, temperature in Fahrenheit degrees, AM and FM broadcast bands, all were totally arbitrary--someone just made a few tick marks on a stick, or used whatever hardware was at hand to start sending and receiving radio transmissions with no regard for the frequency.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > David
                  >
                  > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Alan Cox <alan@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > We Electro/Mechanical folks have to design around numbers
                  > > > for solids. (Organics are another matter entirely, just add water
                  > > > and fertilizers ;>)
                  > >
                  > > But not always sane ones. CD capacity came from the length of a
                  > > particular classical piece. T scale model trains come from someone
                  > > looking at the top of their laptop and thinking I want my trainset to fit
                  > > that space.
                  > >
                  >
                • Rick Saviano
                  Beethoven s 9th, to be precise; Mrs. Sony didn t want to have to switch CDs: Sony had initially preferred a smaller diameter, but soon after the beginning of
                  Message 8 of 22 , Sep 4, 2012
                    Beethoven's 9th, to be precise; "Mrs. Sony" didn't want to have to
                    switch CDs:

                    Sony had initially preferred a smaller diameter, but soon after the
                    beginning of the collaboration started to argue vehemently for a
                    diameter of 120mm. Sony’s argument was simple and compelling: to
                    maximize the consumer appear of a switch to the new technology, any
                    major piece of music needed to fit on a single CD…Beethoven’s Ninth
                    Symphony was quickly identified as the point of reference — according to
                    some accounts, it was the favorite piece of Sony vice-president Norio
                    Ohga’s wife. And thorough research identified the 1951 recording by the
                    orchestra of the Bayreuther Festspiele under Wilhelm Furtwängler, at
                    seventy-four minutes, as the slowest performance of the Ninth Symphony
                    on record. And so, according to the official history, Sony and Philips
                    top executives agreed in their May 1980 meeting that “a diameter of 12
                    centimeters was required for this playing time.”


                    http://www.neatorama.com/2011/04/03/what-determined-the-length-of-an-audio-cd/

                    - Rick Saviano



                    On 9/4/2012 9:48 AM, mark2playz wrote:
                    > But not always sane ones. CD capacity came from the length of a
                    > particular classical piece.
                  • FT. Dewey
                    Beethoven s 9th, to be precise; Mrs. Sony didn t want to have to switch CDs: Good thing it wasn t Wagner s Ring Cycle !!
                    Message 9 of 22 , Sep 5, 2012
                      "Beethoven's 9th, to be precise; "Mrs. Sony" didn't want to have to
                      switch CDs:"

                      Good thing it wasn't Wagner's Ring Cycle !!
                                                                                                                   DEWEY

                       
                      Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
                      o o o o o o o . . . ______________________________
                      o _____ || |
                      .][__n_n_|DD[ ====_____ | |
                      >(________|__|_[_________]_|____________________________|
                      _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o!o!o o!o!o`
                      -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


                      ________________________________
                      From: Rick Saviano <saviano@...>
                      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 7:49 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Why 1:220 ?

                      Beethoven's 9th, to be precise; "Mrs. Sony" didn't want to have to
                      switch CDs:

                      Sony had initially preferred a smaller diameter, but soon after the
                      beginning of the collaboration started to argue vehemently for a
                      diameter of 120mm. Sony’s argument was simple and compelling: to
                      maximize the consumer appear of a switch to the new technology, any
                      major piece of music needed to fit on a single CD…Beethoven’s Ninth
                      Symphony was quickly identified as the point of reference — according to
                      some accounts, it was the favorite piece of Sony vice-president Norio
                      Ohga’s wife. And thorough research identified the 1951 recording by the
                      orchestra of the Bayreuther Festspiele under Wilhelm Furtwängler, at
                      seventy-four minutes, as the slowest performance of the Ninth Symphony
                      on record. And so, according to the official history, Sony and Philips
                      top executives agreed in their May 1980 meeting that “a diameter of 12
                      centimeters was required for this playing time.”


                      http://www.neatorama.com/2011/04/03/what-determined-the-length-of-an-audio-cd/

                      - Rick Saviano



                      On 9/4/2012 9:48 AM, mark2playz wrote:
                      > But not always sane ones. CD capacity came from the length of a
                      > particular classical piece.



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