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Re: [Z_Scale] Re: rokuhan bridge update.

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  • Loren Snyder
    Speaking of clearance.........what is the minimum vertical clearance when considering double stack? Is it still the 1 3/8 or should it be a bit more? After
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 1, 2012
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      Speaking of clearance.........what is the minimum vertical clearance when
      considering double stack? Is it still the 1 3/8" or should it be a bit
      more?

      After seeing Jerry Craig's crossover module this weekend at the N convention
      I'm wanting to do a cross over module. Matter of fact, so is Robert Ray.
      This type of module sure offers some great scenery possibilities. Only
      possible drawback is the length the module needs to be to keep the grade at
      a minimum. 6' is about the shortest length that is workable.

      Loren




      -------Original Message-------

      From: Ken
      Date: 7/1/2012 8:02:42 AM
      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: rokuhan bridge update.

      A beautiful model and welcome addition. Is there enough clearance to
      handle double stack containers? If based on prototypical design probably
      so but never assume.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • mark2playz
      Loren, Interestingly enough, the NMRA has the modern clearance at 1 1/4 , although I ve always used 1 3/8 myself. Mark
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 1, 2012
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        Loren,
        Interestingly enough, the NMRA has the "modern" clearance at 1 1/4", although I've always used 1 3/8" myself.
        Mark

        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren Snyder" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
        >
        > Speaking of clearance.........what is the minimum vertical clearance when
        > considering double stack? Is it still the 1 3/8" or should it be a bit
        > more?
        >
        > After seeing Jerry Craig's crossover module this weekend at the N convention
        > I'm wanting to do a cross over module. Matter of fact, so is Robert Ray.
        > This type of module sure offers some great scenery possibilities. Only
        > possible drawback is the length the module needs to be to keep the grade at
        > a minimum. 6' is about the shortest length that is workable.
        >
        > Loren
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -------Original Message-------
        >
        > From: Ken
        > Date: 7/1/2012 8:02:42 AM
        > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: rokuhan bridge update.
        >
        > A beautiful model and welcome addition. Is there enough clearance to
        > handle double stack containers? If based on prototypical design probably
        > so but never assume.
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Loren Snyder
        Do you think that is adequate for stack cars or is there anything taller than that? Should we listen to NMRA?.........I doubt it :o) Loren ... From:
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 1, 2012
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          Do you think that is adequate for stack cars or is there anything taller
          than that? Should we listen to NMRA?.........I doubt it :o)
          Loren




          -------Original Message-------

          From: mark2playz
          Date: 7/1/2012 11:10:18 AM
          To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: rokuhan bridge update.

          Loren,
          Interestingly enough, the NMRA has the "modern" clearance at 1 1/4",
          although I've always used 1 3/8" myself.
          Mark


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mark2playz
          Loren, Actually, the 1 1/4 is the maximum height of the car + load (Sorry). Add 2 scale feet (.11 ) clearance and round up to the nearest eighth and you get 1
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 1, 2012
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            Loren,
            Actually, the 1 1/4" is the maximum height of the car + load (Sorry). Add 2 scale feet (.11") clearance and round up to the nearest eighth and you get 1 3/8". I'm not at home so I can't run out to the shop with the micrometer, but I checked all my stock to the NZT clearance gauge and nothing was oversized.
            As for the NMRA, I always have mixed feelings, but companies like Rokuhan are building products to the NMRA standards now. A company looking to enter the Z scale market would no doubt use the NMRA standards. If the standard is inappropriate we should look into changing it so that companies aren't try to build product that won't work.

            Mark

            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren Snyder" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
            >
            > Do you think that is adequate for stack cars or is there anything taller
            > than that? Should we listen to NMRA?.........I doubt it :o)
            > Loren
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > -------Original Message-------
            >
            > From: mark2playz
            > Date: 7/1/2012 11:10:18 AM
            > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: rokuhan bridge update.
            >
            > Loren,
            > Interestingly enough, the NMRA has the "modern" clearance at 1 1/4",
            > although I've always used 1 3/8" myself.
            > Mark
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • mark2playz
            Loren, Actually, the 1 1/4 is the maximum height of the car + load (Sorry). Add 2 scale feet (.11 ) clearance and round up to the nearest eighth and you get 1
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 1, 2012
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              Loren,
              Actually, the 1 1/4" is the maximum height of the car + load (Sorry). Add 2 scale feet (.11") clearance and round up to the nearest eighth and you get 1 3/8". I'm not at home so I can't run out to the shop with the micrometer, but I checked all my stock to the NZT clearance gauge and nothing was oversized.
              As for the NMRA, I always have mixed feelings, but companies like Rokuhan are building products to the NMRA standards now. A company looking to enter the Z scale market would no doubt use the NMRA standards. If the standard is inappropriate we should look into changing it so that companies aren't try to build product that won't work.

              Mark

              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren Snyder" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
              >
              > Do you think that is adequate for stack cars or is there anything taller
              > than that? Should we listen to NMRA?.........I doubt it :o)
              > Loren
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > -------Original Message-------
              >
              > From: mark2playz
              > Date: 7/1/2012 11:10:18 AM
              > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: rokuhan bridge update.
              >
              > Loren,
              > Interestingly enough, the NMRA has the "modern" clearance at 1 1/4",
              > although I've always used 1 3/8" myself.
              > Mark
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Loren Snyder
              Thanks Mark, Jerry from CZM and I were talking about his cross over module and he actually has a much higher clearance of about 2 1/2 which makes his grade a
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 1, 2012
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                Thanks Mark,

                Jerry from CZM and I were talking about his cross over module and he
                actually has a much higher clearance of about 2 1/2" which makes his grade a
                bit on the high side, but the appearance is more prototypical than having
                the tracks so close vertically.

                If Jerry's module were a foot or so longer, the grade would be very
                acceptable and the eye appeal really is more pleasing.

                Looks like my cross over module may be two 4' joined securely at the middle
                or one long 8'

                Loren




                -------Original Message-------

                From: mark2playz
                Date: 7/1/2012 12:30:09 PM
                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: rokuhan bridge update.

                Loren,
                Actually, the 1 1/4" is the maximum height of the car + load (Sorry).
                Add 2 scale feet (.11") clearance and round up to the nearest eighth and you
                get 1 3/8". I'm not at home so I can't run out to the shop with the
                micrometer, but I checked all my stock to the NZT clearance gauge and
                nothing was oversized.
                As for the NMRA, I always have mixed feelings, but companies like
                Rokuhan are building products to the NMRA standards now. A company looking
                to enter the Z scale market would no doubt use the NMRA standards. If the
                standard is inappropriate we should look into changing it so that companies
                aren't try to build product that won't work.

                Mark


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Reynard Wellman
                Hi Loren, Mark is correct. For Z scale the clearance between the top-of-rail to any obstructions above should be 1.25 at least. That amounts to about 22 +
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 1, 2012
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                  Hi Loren,
                  Mark is correct. For Z scale the clearance between the "top-of-rail"
                  to any obstructions above should be 1.25" at least. That
                  amounts to about 22' + actual and since our scale is not always
                  "to scale" that would be advisable. The best standard for most US railroads
                  who have converted their bridges and tunnels for double stack service
                  is 20' 2" min. This avoids minor stope sagging and seismic displacements
                  along tunnels and for the truss bridge failures of some components, like
                  the cross-member frames.

                  The US Railroads have spent between 10 and 12 billion dollars
                  refitting all their those areas needing clearance improvements for
                  their own double stack service routes. (My estimate is low since
                  I have only seen a sample listing of those railway lines costs).
                  I'll stick to the little trains but always admire the big ones!

                  Reynard



                  On Jul 1, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Loren Snyder wrote:

                  > Do you think that is adequate for stack cars or is there anything taller
                  > than that? Should we listen to NMRA?.........I doubt it :o)
                  > Loren
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -------Original Message-------
                  >
                  > From: mark2playz
                  > Date: 7/1/2012 11:10:18 AM
                  > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: rokuhan bridge update.
                  >
                  > Loren,
                  > Interestingly enough, the NMRA has the "modern" clearance at 1 1/4",
                  > although I've always used 1 3/8" myself.
                  > Mark
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jeff
                  Just measured: 21.5 1.13 MTL Gunderson s with containers 20.5 1.12 Tim s Well cars with containers 19.5 1.06 AZL Autorack 17.5 0.95 AZL Hi-cube Add
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 1, 2012
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                    Just measured:

                    21.5' 1.13" MTL Gunderson's with containers
                    20.5' 1.12" Tim's Well cars with containers
                    19.5' 1.06" AZL Autorack
                    17.5' 0.95" AZL Hi-cube

                    Add MTL, Rokohan or Midwest cork+flex @ ~ 3.4' or 0.19""


                    Jeff M
                    SF Bay Area Z

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Reynard Wellman <micron@...>
                    Sender: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 21:06:40
                    To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                    Reply-To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: rokuhan bridge update.

                    Hi Loren,
                    Mark is correct. For Z scale the clearance between the "top-of-rail"
                    to any obstructions above should be 1.25" at least. That
                    amounts to about 22' + actual and since our scale is not always
                    "to scale" that would be advisable. The best standard for most US railroads
                    who have converted their bridges and tunnels for double stack service
                    is 20' 2" min. This avoids minor stope sagging and seismic displacements
                    along tunnels and for the truss bridge failures of some components, like
                    the cross-member frames.

                    The US Railroads have spent between 10 and 12 billion dollars
                    refitting all their those areas needing clearance improvements for
                    their own double stack service routes. (My estimate is low since
                    I have only seen a sample listing of those railway lines costs).
                    I'll stick to the little trains but always admire the big ones!

                    Reynard



                    On Jul 1, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Loren Snyder wrote:

                    > Do you think that is adequate for stack cars or is there anything taller
                    > than that? Should we listen to NMRA?.........I doubt it :o)
                    > Loren
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -------Original Message-------
                    >
                    > From: mark2playz
                    > Date: 7/1/2012 11:10:18 AM
                    > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: rokuhan bridge update.
                    >
                    > Loren,
                    > Interestingly enough, the NMRA has the "modern" clearance at 1 1/4",
                    > although I've always used 1 3/8" myself.
                    > Mark
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                  • hasbro
                    ... Thank you Reynard. When observing Jerry s cross over, I did like the looks of the greater vertical clearance than the minimum. I m really contemplating a
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 1, 2012
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                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Reynard Wellman <micron@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Loren,
                      > Mark is correct. For Z scale the clearance between the "top-of-rail"
                      > to any obstructions above should be 1.25" at least.
                      > Reynard

                      Thank you Reynard.

                      When observing Jerry's cross over, I did like the looks of the greater vertical clearance than the minimum. I'm really contemplating a long module to get the added spacing while maintaining no more than about a 1 1/2% grade.

                      Then the problem will shift back again to 'how do I transport yet more modules?' Could a Peter Built big rig and 40' trailer be in my future? :o)
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