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Re: Electrical for Track Crossover

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  • mark2playz
    All, Thanks for the input. The only idea I could come up with for sync ing the modules is to use isolated track sections wired as A , A or B and B ,
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 10, 2012
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      All,
      Thanks for the input. The only idea I could come up with for sync'ing the modules is to use isolated track sections wired as 'A', 'A' or 'B' and 'B', like a reversing loop.
      For module logistics, I've been thinking about having two single crossover modules or a double. The thought with the double is that it corrects it's own twist and that any number of standard modules could be added with the rule: "A=B and B=A".

      I'm modeling the WP and SP in eastern Alameda Cty. where the two lines cross each other 7 times in 20 miles. The crossing I ultimately want to model is: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/WP29A.JPG.
      But the prototypes used a simple crossing, back-to-back turnouts, a couple of girder bridges, even a truss...so I have plenty of options.
      Garth, for the back-to-back turnouts, I was planning on using Rokuhan units in power routing mode and the controlled in tandem. I think I should be able to run two power supplies provided the power routing is "break before make."


      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth" <garth.a.hamilton@...> wrote:
      >
      > Mark
      >
      > if you are using Micro Trains or Marklin track and turnouts they are all non power routing so wiring is quite simple, provided you are using a single power source either DC or DCC, Because you have a cross over the two tracks are wired the same and you can not run two trains independently on the parallel tracks unless you are using DCC.
      >
      > With non power routing turnouts and DCC or DC control you just have to be sure that rail closest to the module front of track "A" is connected to the same terminal on your controller as the rail closet to the the front on track "B" or in can be simplified and just use one pair of feeders to one track wither "A" or "B" only because in non power routing it is power everywhere.
      >
      > Using DC control if you want to operate two independent engines you need two independent sources. With two parallel tracks you wire the rail closest to the front of the module with on each track with the same polarity and the rails that are the furthest from the front of the module on each track with the other lead from your power source. If you want independent operation of the two tracks so you can operate two separate trains with DC power then you need to have insulators between the two turnouts in the cross over and you need two independent power sources We will call the track closest to the front of the module track "A" and its power source controller "A" and the other track furthest from the module front track "B" and its power source controller "B". You connect the plus lead of controller "A" to the rail closest to the module front of Track "A" and the minus lead of controller "A" to the the rail on track "A" furthest from the module front. On controller "B" you connect plus lead to the rail that is closest to the module front on track "B" and the minus lead to the furthest rail of Track "B". Now you can operate two independent engines on on each track. To cross over you set the turnouts for the cross over place the direction switch on controller "A" & "B" to the same direction and you can run your engine across the insulators without a problem. This way of wiring will also make it easy to join other modules in a show but you will have to work out the wiring interface between the adjacent modules. with this wiring. you will not be able to add end loops to this module without disconnecting one controller.
      >
      > going to a show to join others you will need some help conforming to the groups wiring standard and plugs and sockets. If you place terminal strips under your module and wire your track to the terminal strips and label your wiring it will not be too hard to connect up to other modules at a show.
      >
      > This should hopefully allow you to decide which direction you want to go.
      >
      > regards Garth
      >
      > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "jamesmacburney" <macburney@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Mark,
      > > There are much more knowledgeable folks here on track design and I, but I think the no-no would be having any other module between these cross-over modules, due to their under layout track feeders wouldn't match your feeds, even if you double gap-ed your track.
      > >
      > > That said, I would curious to see your plans, since this could have some interesting viewing and/or scenic possibilities.
      > > -JamesTraction
      > >
      > > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "rvn20012000" <rvn20012000@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi Mark,
      > > >
      > > > If the 2 modules will always be used together it doesn't make any difference how you connect the 2 of them....as long as the wiring matches up where they will join with other Z-bend track modules.
      > > >
      > > > Thom
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "mark2playz" <mark.markham@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi,
      > > > > I'm working on a couple of Z-bend track modules with the main lines crossing over. I'm wondering how others who have built crossovers have handled the wiring. I'm thinking of running the "B" power on the outside track exiting the module and leaving it that way until I get to the other crossover module. I'd appreciate any thoughts.
      > > > >
      > > > > Mark
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Garth
      If you are going to use Rokuhan you have to make sure your turnouts are all non power routing or power routing. The L55 turnouts coming on line now are set as
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 10, 2012
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        If you are going to use Rokuhan you have to make sure your turnouts are all non power routing or power routing. The L55 turnouts coming on line now are set as power routing by default and can be converted to power routing. The original L110mm turnouts are all power routing and can be modified to non power routing and the last release of L110 turnouts will come as power routing and can be converted to non power routing easily with two screws supplied with he turnout.

        With power routing you need to know about block wiring and block control panels as without it just using the turnouts will lead you to many conditoons where you are creating a short by where you have placed the turnouts in relation to other. Look for information on wiring N - scale layouts with Kato Unitrack as that is the closest you can come to useful information for wiring Rokuhan in Z scale.

        regards Garth


        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "mark2playz" <mark.markham@...> wrote:
        >
        > All,
        > Thanks for the input. The only idea I could come up with for sync'ing the modules is to use isolated track sections wired as 'A', 'A' or 'B' and 'B', like a reversing loop.
        > For module logistics, I've been thinking about having two single crossover modules or a double. The thought with the double is that it corrects it's own twist and that any number of standard modules could be added with the rule: "A=B and B=A".
        >
        > I'm modeling the WP and SP in eastern Alameda Cty. where the two lines cross each other 7 times in 20 miles. The crossing I ultimately want to model is: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/WP29A.JPG.
        > But the prototypes used a simple crossing, back-to-back turnouts, a couple of girder bridges, even a truss...so I have plenty of options.
        > Garth, for the back-to-back turnouts, I was planning on using Rokuhan units in power routing mode and the controlled in tandem. I think I should be able to run two power supplies provided the power routing is "break before make."
        >
        >
        > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth" <garth.a.hamilton@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Mark
        > >
        > > if you are using Micro Trains or Marklin track and turnouts they are all non power routing so wiring is quite simple, provided you are using a single power source either DC or DCC, Because you have a cross over the two tracks are wired the same and you can not run two trains independently on the parallel tracks unless you are using DCC.
        > >
        > > With non power routing turnouts and DCC or DC control you just have to be sure that rail closest to the module front of track "A" is connected to the same terminal on your controller as the rail closet to the the front on track "B" or in can be simplified and just use one pair of feeders to one track wither "A" or "B" only because in non power routing it is power everywhere.
        > >
        > > Using DC control if you want to operate two independent engines you need two independent sources. With two parallel tracks you wire the rail closest to the front of the module with on each track with the same polarity and the rails that are the furthest from the front of the module on each track with the other lead from your power source. If you want independent operation of the two tracks so you can operate two separate trains with DC power then you need to have insulators between the two turnouts in the cross over and you need two independent power sources We will call the track closest to the front of the module track "A" and its power source controller "A" and the other track furthest from the module front track "B" and its power source controller "B". You connect the plus lead of controller "A" to the rail closest to the module front of Track "A" and the minus lead of controller "A" to the the rail on track "A" furthest from the module front. On controller "B" you connect plus lead to the rail that is closest to the module front on track "B" and the minus lead to the furthest rail of Track "B". Now you can operate two independent engines on on each track. To cross over you set the turnouts for the cross over place the direction switch on controller "A" & "B" to the same direction and you can run your engine across the insulators without a problem. This way of wiring will also make it easy to join other modules in a show but you will have to work out the wiring interface between the adjacent modules. with this wiring. you will not be able to add end loops to this module without disconnecting one controller.
        > >
        > > going to a show to join others you will need some help conforming to the groups wiring standard and plugs and sockets. If you place terminal strips under your module and wire your track to the terminal strips and label your wiring it will not be too hard to connect up to other modules at a show.
        > >
        > > This should hopefully allow you to decide which direction you want to go.
        > >
        > > regards Garth
        > >
        > > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "jamesmacburney" <macburney@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Mark,
        > > > There are much more knowledgeable folks here on track design and I, but I think the no-no would be having any other module between these cross-over modules, due to their under layout track feeders wouldn't match your feeds, even if you double gap-ed your track.
        > > >
        > > > That said, I would curious to see your plans, since this could have some interesting viewing and/or scenic possibilities.
        > > > -JamesTraction
        > > >
        > > > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "rvn20012000" <rvn20012000@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi Mark,
        > > > >
        > > > > If the 2 modules will always be used together it doesn't make any difference how you connect the 2 of them....as long as the wiring matches up where they will join with other Z-bend track modules.
        > > > >
        > > > > Thom
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "mark2playz" <mark.markham@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Hi,
        > > > > > I'm working on a couple of Z-bend track modules with the main lines crossing over. I'm wondering how others who have built crossovers have handled the wiring. I'm thinking of running the "B" power on the outside track exiting the module and leaving it that way until I get to the other crossover module. I'd appreciate any thoughts.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Mark
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Patrick
        Hi, Six or seven years ago (?) I built a crossover Module (see photos in the Crossover Module album for this group) and encountered the same issue. The
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 11, 2012
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          Hi,

          Six or seven years ago (?) I built a crossover Module (see photos in the Crossover Module album for this group) and encountered the same issue. The solution for me was to build a balloon end module with special wiring. You could also build a non-end module with special wiring. We discovered (painfully for Brian K and others) that you cannot insert a normally wired module between the two.

          Good luck on your crossover module, and they provide great train views.

          Check out my photo album and also the two part series in Z Track magazine from a few years ago where I described in detail the building process. You'll need a 6 foot module or longer to maintain 2 degree or less gradients, with one set of tracks dipping down under the elevated other sets of tracks.

          Pat
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