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Re: [Z_Scale] Re: A Theoretical Question

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  • Lee Barry
    Garth,Lee Barry here. When Jim O Connell built my 37x27 layout last year from July 15 to Oct 15 I saw an ad in Ztrack in regards to one of those controllers. I
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 22, 2011
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      Garth,Lee Barry here.

      When Jim O'Connell built my 37x27 layout last year from July 15 to Oct 15 I saw an ad in Ztrack in regards to one of those controllers. I called Jim and he told me to get one of them that had the wall pak and he would wire it up for me after he saw what it would do. I bought it and had it sent to him. He extended the wire from the controller to the track plug ( I made a mistake when getting him tol build it, he asked where I was going put it and I told him in one corner of the room. I did not think that one thru, I should have had him put mt three (3) female plugs on 3 sides of the layout, oh well we live and we learn.

      I am well pleased with mine, when I tried it with a nine volt battery (not some cheap version, but a good one) I got 8 hrs of run time with mine. I used a MTL GP35 and 4 loaded 40' coal loaded hopper cars (AZL's) and a small MTL caboose. I ran it a about 3/4 speed. I just let it ran and checked on it about every 30 mins. I finally stopped, but my volt meter showed the battery still had 2-3 volts of power still left.

      I purchased one of Stonebridges a few weeks back but did not think to ask Loren if it was "dual power". The only thing it looks a little better, but I will use it too.

      I thought about getting rechargeable 9 volt batteries, but don't know how they would do or would it be worth the price. It's funny but I can buy a rechargeable battery and charger for my DeWalt drill almost as cheap as I can buy the 9 Volt rechargeable system. How well do you think a rechargeable deal would work with my system. I will probably have to change the male end of the one from Loren and also extend the wire.

      As I said I am well pleased with mine from Ztrack, but have not tried the other one yet. As you said you can start the engines off at a very slow speed and not have any trouble. I'm going to get with Jim and see if he will tell me what male end he used on my original controller. Knowing him he will tell me he'll send me one.

      By the way I got an email picture of part of his "N" layout. If the rest of it is as good and he lives long enough to finish, aka, the builder of the "Gorre & Dephited", pronounced Gory & Defeated!!! , Mr. John Allen.

      --- On Sat, 10/22/11, Garth <garth.a.hamilton@...> wrote:


      From: Garth <garth.a.hamilton@...>
      Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: A Theoretical Question
      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, October 22, 2011, 9:49 PM

      In my book it has more to do with your power source you use rather than the chemicals you put on your track or with the engine you are using if it is clean and new. Pure DC is not as effective at low speeds as some of the higher tech throttles in getting the engine to creep. A dc motor has a series of poles and that coupled with friction inside your engine gear box means at very low voltages the motor does not receive enough juice to overcome this initial friction and so it stalls or appears to stall at very low speeds regardless of the chemicals you have put on your track. this can happen even on surgically clean track and wheels. Higher tech throttles have a pulse power at a certain frequency so that at lower voltage settings there is spike of power which gets the engine armature moving and keeps it moving at low output voltages.Depending on your throttle these spikes could have a frequency of 120hz so that every half second the motor gets a burst of power that is higher than the actual voltage set by your dial position.When you couple this inertia kick to a brushless motor with a fly wheel or two on the motor shaft you have a pretty fine combination to get your slow speed operation.With my Joeger throttles(they are hard to find these days) I have been able to get the engine to run slow enough that it covers an
      inch of track in two minutes. It is so slow that you have to put a marker beside the track to tell if your engine is moving. There are several other models around that are very close to this sort of power management From Mendvend and Zthek throttles, available from Ztrack, Stonebridge models and Z scale monster and Zthek. These throttles usually feature battery power and some have optional wall transformer input as an option or instead of battery. A single 9 v dc battery will run a pair of Z scale engines for a 6 hour show no problem, so don't be so quick to discount a battery powered unit. Mendvend also produces a DCC throttle which is no hassle DCC, Hook it up to the track set you DCC equipped engine on the track at controller to position 1 2 or 3 and the unit programs the engine for that number and once the first engine is programmed you can do a second and a third. One version lets you run only 1 engine at a time and another allows you to run two or three at a time though this can get confusing for first time DCC operators.

      After these high tech controllers, come are the more simple variety of good quality DC controllers from Crown in Japan From Rokuhan in Japan and North America. There is one other unit called varipulse from a source close to my home near Niagara Falls Canada. When you order it for use with Z scale, make sure you specify it is for Z scale then it will be safe for our small engines, but, be aware he does make other models for other scales which are not safe for Z.
      everything here I have used and am familiar with and know it works with Z. There may be other units around that others say will work, but I take those recommends lightly unless is comes from someone using the devices for Z and has experience with them.There are other pulse power throttles that are not safe for Z. SO beware of imposters.

      cheerz Garth
    • mark2playz
      Lee, I ve been using rechargeable NiMH 9V batteries in my Ztrack controller for some time and overall been happy with the results. Two batteries and a general
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 4, 2011
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        Lee,
        I've been using rechargeable NiMH 9V batteries in my Ztrack controller for some time and overall been happy with the results. Two batteries and a general purpose charger (which I also use with D cells for other purposes) cost the better part of $100.
        The NiMH battery runs at 8.4V which is fine although it seems to affect the high speed a bit. The battery will run a GP for about 5-6 hrs of normal operation and recharges overnight. The only thing strange with NiMH cells is that they lose power quickly when they need to be recharged, so the cell can go from near full power to zero in just a minute.
        Mark


        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Lee Barry <z_scale2@...> wrote:
        >
        > Garth,Lee Barry here.
        >
        > When Jim O'Connell built my 37x27 layout last year from July 15 to Oct 15 I saw an ad in Ztrack in regards to one of those controllers. I called Jim and he told me to get one of them that had the wall pak and he would wire it up for me after he saw what it would do. I bought it and had it sent to him. He extended the wire from the controller to the track plug ( I made a mistake when getting him tol build it, he asked where I was going put it and I told him in one corner of the room. I did not think that one thru, I should have had him put mt three (3) female plugs on 3 sides of the layout, oh well we live and we learn.
        >
        > I am well pleased with mine, when I tried it with a nine volt battery (not some cheap version, but a good one) I got 8 hrs of run time with mine. I used a MTL GP35 and 4 loaded 40' coal loaded hopper cars (AZL's) and a small MTL caboose. I ran it a about 3/4 speed. I just let it ran and checked on it about every 30 mins. I finally stopped, but my volt meter showed the battery still had 2-3 volts of power still left.
        >
        > I purchased one of Stonebridges a few weeks back but did not think to ask Loren if it was "dual power". The only thing it looks a little better, but I will use it too.
        >
        > I thought about getting rechargeable 9 volt batteries, but don't know how they would do or would it be worth the price. It's funny but I can buy a rechargeable battery and charger for my DeWalt drill almost as cheap as I can buy the 9 Volt rechargeable system. How well do you think a rechargeable deal would work with my system. I will probably have to change the male end of the one from Loren and also extend the wire.
      • Lee Barry
        Thanks for the info. Just wondering whether it is less money to recharge than to replace with new ones. The $100 price is about what I seen here. The one I use
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 4, 2011
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          Thanks for the info. Just wondering whether it is less money to recharge than to replace with new ones. The $100 price is about what I seen here. The one I use for my layout can be used either way. I also bought one from Loren & Karin last month that is 9 volt only. Always be prepared for anything to happen at a show. If the lights went out and your batteries were fully charged you'd be the only one goin' round.Lee

          --- On Fri, 11/4/11, mark2playz <mark.markham@...> wrote:


          From: mark2playz <mark.markham@...>
          Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: A Theoretical Question
          To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, November 4, 2011, 3:19 PM

          Lee,
          I've been using rechargeable NiMH 9V batteries in my Ztrack controller for some time and overall been happy with the results. Two batteries and a general purpose charger (which I also use with D cells for other purposes) cost the better part of $100.
          The NiMH battery runs at 8.4V which is fine although it seems to affect the high speed a bit. The battery will run a GP for about 5-6 hrs of normal operation and recharges overnight. The only thing strange with NiMH cells is that they lose power quickly when they need to be recharged, so the cell can go from near full power to zero in just a minute.
          Mark
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