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Re: [Z_Scale] A little history

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  • Arnim v. Herff
    ... No problem posting inf... Ooops. web page by Railex is not really working, but on other hand not really dead: http://www.railex.de/neu04.htm OK! Here we
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 29 3:32 PM
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      Am Montag, 27. September 2010 17:34:12 schrieb Melissa Cull:
      > Would love to see that working in Z Scale! Didn't Railex do a working
      > Stephenson's Rocket in Z Scale?

      No problem posting inf... Ooops. web page by Railex is not really working, but
      on other hand not really dead: http://www.railex.de/neu04.htm

      OK! Here we go.
      In 2004 Railex announced a set "Rainhill Trials" in Z- and N-scale containig
      the Rocket by Stepenson, the Sans Pareil by Hackworth and the Novelty by
      Braithwaite and Ericsson. The models are not motorized. The set is (was?)
      available fullcoloured or in pure brass. Additionally is offered a
      passenger-train with one open and two closed cars. One of the closed contains
      a motor. And a freight with two open and one boxed car. The later one
      contains a motor.

      I did not found a web-site containig pictures. But if you will use the
      picture-search by Google, you'll get the pictures of the above mentioned page
      in using terms "railex stephenson" as first results.

      Hope this helps.

      Greetings Arnim
    • reynard wellman
      Hi Melissa, SMDs! Very delicate stuff. Paste and Re-flow solder. I m sure you could handle the tiny bits at the MTL factory nicely with that in your resume. I
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 29 8:16 PM
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        Hi Melissa,
        SMDs! Very delicate stuff. Paste and Re-flow solder.
        I'm sure you could handle the tiny bits at the MTL
        factory nicely with that in your resume.

        I recommend the Z scale Tenshodo locomotives.
        They are smooth and pleasing to watch along the grade.
        Nice touch with the "top-of-boiler" headlamp as well.
        We've gotten lucky. Once in a while someone comes along who not only
        lowers the price, but manages to raise the bar as well.

        best regardZ,
        Reynard
        On Sep 28, 2010, at 3:33 AM, Melissa Cull wrote:

        > Hi Reynard,
        >
        > Thanks Reynard Railex do seem to like to build the tiny ones that would be a
        > real challenge. Must have been extremely expensive...
        >
        > I like Marklin and MTL, not yet tried AZL, Railex or Tenshodo. Tenshodo
        > motor bogies in 00 scale run fabulously so I would think the Z would run
        > like a dream too. The quality of all these Z far surpass much of the ready
        > built British outline N scale and 00 scale stuff available.
        >
        > There is that old saying "Less is more" which fits also our wonderful scale
        > as it's more difficult to build and requires more specialised tools /
        > magnification whilst "More is more" fits the larger scales as they use more
        > materials and heavier tools to make.
        >
        > I have the attitude if it looks right, works, is the right price and is what
        > I want for my layout then I don't mind what make it is:-)
        >
        > I'd like the job in the MTL factory assembling all the tiny components,
        > after working with assembling Suface Mount Devices (SMD / SMT) electronics Z
        > scale is big - so very relaxing:-)
        >
        > In factories I used to work in before I went into health research, studies
        > showed that women tended to have most patience and most dexterity with
        > repetitive very tiny work. Though many men to too as can be seen from our
        > wonderful hobby... I think it just depends on the person
        >
        > Kind RegardZ
        >
        > Melissa
        > UK
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
        > Of reynard wellman
        > Sent: 27 September 2010 17:16
        > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] A little history
        >
        > Hi Melissa,
        > Yes, I think Railex did make one of those early, early
        > locomotives and they are absolute gems.
        >
        > On another topic about the prices for N scale vs Z scale,
        > there is another reason Z equipment can be slightly higher:
        > Engineering and assembly labor. Raw materials are not
        > the issue but putting some of this stuff together can
        > be very time consuming. Designing in Z scale also requires
        > tighter tolerances and often a lot of research and experiment.
        > Overall we are starting to see real progress, wonderful steam
        > engines and better track. The Tenshodo equipment is
        > astonishingly well made. MTL is determined to put out
        > better and better equipment as well. Marklin's 5 pole motors
        > on my US Pacifics and Mikados are wonderful runners.
        > AZL's equipment rivals some of the finest brass in the
        > larger scales. I am happy with the future of Z scale.
        >
        > warm regardZ,
        > Reynard
        > http://www.micronart.com
        > On Sep 27, 2010, at 10:34 AM, Melissa Cull wrote:
        >
        > > Hi Alan,
        > >
        > > What about Cornish Engineer Richard Trevithick - he built the first ever
        > > working steam locomotive for the collieries.
        > >
        > > Would love to see that working in Z Scale! Didn't Railex do a working
        > > Stephenson's Rocket in Z Scale?
        > >
        > > Kind RegardZ
        > >
        > > Melissa
        > > UK
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
        > > Of Alan Cox
        > > Sent: 27 September 2010 15:49
        > > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        > > Cc: kc5uci_2@...
        > > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] A little history
        > >
        > > On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 06:42:19 -0700 (PDT)
        > > "FT. Dewey" <kc5uci_2@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > > In case anyone is interested... On this day in
        > > >
        > > > 1825 Railroad transportation is born with 1st track in England
        > >
        > > Dunno where you got that from but
        > >
        > > First "public" railway - as in one that was available to all users
        > > subject to paying the tolls was arguably the Surrey Iron Railway, except
        > > that they got their paperwork first, but the Llanelly and Mynydd Mawr
        > > railway was up and running first despite having permission second.
        > > (1802/3)
        > >
        > > First steam powered railway run was in 1804, Pen-y-Darren locomotive,
        > > Wales, which is also the same year as the first passenger railway (The
        > > Swansea and Mumbles) which at the time was horse drawn. That rather
        > > curious claim to fame occurred not because passenger rail travel was the
        > > thing but because the only link between the two locations was narrow and
        > > happened to be a railway (horse drawn) for moving goods. So they started
        > > moving people too.
        > >
        > > Catch-me-who-can was 1809 and pulled passengers in a circle of track as
        > > essentially a show act but was probably the first planned passenger
        > > railway.
        > >
        > > In 1812 the Middleton colliery began using steam locomotives and an
        > > interested cog track system for production work.
        > >
        > > 1814 saw Puffing Billy in use at Wylan colliery which is the oldest
        > > existing steam locomotive (although not in operational order)
        > >
        > > By 1825 and the Stockton and Darlington steam railways were 21 years old,
        > > they had been doing continuous useful work for 13 or so and intermodal
        > > incidentally was nearly 50 years old by then.
        > >
        > > Railways proper came from Waggonways most of which were wooden railed but
        > > began to use iron rails or iron plating on some sections to make wagons
        > > roll better. Exactly how old waggonways are is a mystery - but the answer
        > > is certainly "very old", and even more so if the earlier rutways are
        > > included.
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Z-scale: minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Melissa Cull
        Hi Reynard, Yes SMD was quite tiny to work on by hand with paste and reflow by hand and is nowadays even more tiny. Great for electronic circuits in Z Scale -
        Message 3 of 30 , Sep 30 2:47 AM
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          Hi Reynard,

          Yes SMD was quite tiny to work on by hand with paste and reflow by hand and
          is nowadays even more tiny. Great for electronic circuits in Z Scale -
          you'll find it all on DCC decoders.

          Now if only MTL had a UK factory I'd be in my element with all that tiny
          assembly and Quality Inspection:-)

          I'm not surprised the Tenshodo is very good running, detailed, not to
          mention reasonable cost for steam. I may give one a try means as steam is my
          favourite.

          Kind RegardZ

          Melissa
          UK

          -----Original Message-----
          From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
          Of reynard wellman
          Sent: 30 September 2010 04:17
          To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] A little history


          Hi Melissa,
          SMDs! Very delicate stuff. Paste and Re-flow solder.
          I'm sure you could handle the tiny bits at the MTL
          factory nicely with that in your resume.

          I recommend the Z scale Tenshodo locomotives.
          They are smooth and pleasing to watch along the grade.
          Nice touch with the "top-of-boiler" headlamp as well.
          We've gotten lucky. Once in a while someone comes along who not only
          lowers the price, but manages to raise the bar as well.

          best regardZ,
          Reynard
        • Melissa Cull
          Hi Arnim, Thanks for the info on the Railex items, wonder if it could be motorized:-) I ve got a great timeline poster with all those locomotives on right up
          Message 4 of 30 , Sep 30 2:47 AM
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            Hi Arnim,

            Thanks for the info on the Railex items, wonder if it could be motorized:-)

            I've got a great timeline poster with all those locomotives on right up to the flopped APTE......

            Kind RegardZ

            Melissa
            UK
            -----Original Message-----
            From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Arnim v. Herff
            Sent: 29 September 2010 23:32
            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] A little history



            Am Montag, 27. September 2010 17:34:12 schrieb Melissa Cull:
            > Would love to see that working in Z Scale! Didn't Railex do a working
            > Stephenson's Rocket in Z Scale?

            No problem posting inf... Ooops. web page by Railex is not really working, but
            on other hand not really dead: http://www.railex.de/neu04.htm

            OK! Here we go.
            In 2004 Railex announced a set "Rainhill Trials" in Z- and N-scale containig
            the Rocket by Stepenson, the Sans Pareil by Hackworth and the Novelty by
            Braithwaite and Ericsson. The models are not motorized. The set is (was?)
            available fullcoloured or in pure brass. Additionally is offered a
            passenger-train with one open and two closed cars. One of the closed contains
            a motor. And a freight with two open and one boxed car. The later one
            contains a motor.

            I did not found a web-site containig pictures. But if you will use the
            picture-search by Google, you'll get the pictures of the above mentioned page
            in using terms "railex stephenson" as first results.

            Hope this helps.

            Greetings Arnim





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Tomas Dickinson
            i wouldnt make fun of the APTE, it is one of the greatest of the not so greats.... In gest, tomas.   ________________________________ From: Melissa Cull
            Message 5 of 30 , Sep 30 2:56 AM
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              i wouldnt make fun of the APTE, it is one of the greatest of the not so
              greats....

              In gest, tomas.

               



              ________________________________
              From: Melissa Cull <melissa.cull@...>
              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thu, 30 September, 2010 7:47:54 PM
              Subject: RE: [Z_Scale] A little history

               
              Hi Arnim,

              Thanks for the info on the Railex items, wonder if it could be motorized:-)

              I've got a great timeline poster with all those locomotives on right up to the
              flopped APTE......

              Kind RegardZ

              Melissa
              UK
              -----Original Message-----
              From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Arnim
              v. Herff
              Sent: 29 September 2010 23:32
              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] A little history

              Am Montag, 27. September 2010 17:34:12 schrieb Melissa Cull:
              > Would love to see that working in Z Scale! Didn't Railex do a working
              > Stephenson's Rocket in Z Scale?

              No problem posting inf... Ooops. web page by Railex is not really working, but
              on other hand not really dead: http://www.railex.de/neu04.htm

              OK! Here we go.
              In 2004 Railex announced a set "Rainhill Trials" in Z- and N-scale containig
              the Rocket by Stepenson, the Sans Pareil by Hackworth and the Novelty by
              Braithwaite and Ericsson. The models are not motorized. The set is (was?)
              available fullcoloured or in pure brass. Additionally is offered a
              passenger-train with one open and two closed cars. One of the closed contains
              a motor. And a freight with two open and one boxed car. The later one
              contains a motor.

              I did not found a web-site containig pictures. But if you will use the
              picture-search by Google, you'll get the pictures of the above mentioned page
              in using terms "railex stephenson" as first results.

              Hope this helps.

              Greetings Arnim

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Arnim v. Herff
              ... Hi Melissa. Of course in 2004 it was correct. But today? You know the jewels by Dr. Andreas Scheibe?
              Message 6 of 30 , Sep 30 10:35 AM
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                Am Donnerstag, 30. September 2010 11:47:54 schrieb Melissa Cull:
                > Thanks for the info on the Railex items, wonder if it could be motorized:-)

                Hi Melissa.

                Of course in 2004 it was correct. But today? You know the jewels by Dr.
                Andreas Scheibe? (http://www.z-modellbau.de/en_products/en_products.html)

                And yesterday I learned that Eishodo - the maker of T gauge - offers a second
                vehicle. It is a DMU. Better, the company offers the blank chassis without
                car-bodiy for realizing your own projects. Two different length: 19 and 21
                mm. And the best: The boogies and the motor are available as spare parts...

                I am corious what the future will bring us in our prefered scale.

                Continental greetings over the Channel
                Arnim
              • Melissa Cull
                Hi Arnim, Dr Andreas Scheibe makes some great locomotives particularly the Glaskasten. I was hoping T gauge would release chassis or even steam locos. Any
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 1, 2010
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                  Hi Arnim,

                  Dr Andreas Scheibe makes some great locomotives particularly the Glaskasten.

                  I was hoping T gauge would release chassis or even steam locos. Any ideas on cost?

                  Hope the T gauge chassis will be available in UK as that does open up some definite posibilities for some very Narrow Gauge Z Scale.

                  ThankZ

                  Kind RegardZ

                  Melissa
                  UK


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Arnim v. Herff
                  Sent: 30 September 2010 18:35
                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] A little history



                  Am Donnerstag, 30. September 2010 11:47:54 schrieb Melissa Cull:
                  > Thanks for the info on the Railex items, wonder if it could be motorized:-)

                  Hi Melissa.

                  Of course in 2004 it was correct. But today? You know the jewels by Dr.
                  Andreas Scheibe? (http://www.z-modellbau.de/en_products/en_products.html)

                  And yesterday I learned that Eishodo - the maker of T gauge - offers a second
                  vehicle. It is a DMU. Better, the company offers the blank chassis without
                  car-bodiy for realizing your own projects. Two different length: 19 and 21
                  mm. And the best: The boogies and the motor are available as spare parts...

                  I am corious what the future will bring us in our prefered scale.

                  Continental greetings over the Channel
                  Arnim





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Alan Cox
                  On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 08:23:15 +0100 ... See www.tgauge.co.uk They are UK based and sell all the chassis and parts including bogies etc for hacking up your own
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 1, 2010
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                    On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 08:23:15 +0100
                    "Melissa Cull" <melissa.cull@...> wrote:

                    > Hi Arnim,
                    >
                    > Dr Andreas Scheibe makes some great locomotives particularly the Glaskasten.
                    >
                    > I was hoping T gauge would release chassis or even steam locos. Any ideas on cost?
                    >
                    > Hope the T gauge chassis will be available in UK as that does open up some definite posibilities for some very Narrow Gauge Z Scale.

                    See www.tgauge.co.uk

                    They are UK based and sell all the chassis and parts including bogies etc
                    for hacking up your own stuff. Note that for standard gauge the scale
                    should be 1:480 and some people use it for that - so its even smaller than
                    you might think - just under half Z.

                    I don't hold out much hope for steam in Z with current technology. The
                    motors are too big for almost any steam, but a bigger problem would be
                    the connecting rods and valve gear. In N doing them roughly
                    prototypically is on the limit of acceptable robustness, in Z most of
                    them are very oversize, and in T you'd probably need materials out of a
                    NASA lab !

                    I'm surprised we've not seen any US style T stuff yet - the big bogie
                    locos, and long bogie wagons are well suited to it.

                    Alan
                  • Garth
                    ... Alan Have you seen the Tenshodo D51 Mikado in Z? and there is a C62 Hudson on its way as well. cheerz Garth
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 1, 2010
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                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Alan Cox <alan@...> wrote:

                      > snip
                      > I don't hold out much hope for steam in Z with current technology. The
                      > motors are too big for almost any steam, but a bigger problem would be
                      > the connecting rods and valve gear. In N doing them roughly
                      > prototypically is on the limit of acceptable robustness, in Z most of
                      > them are very oversize, snip
                      >
                      > Alan
                      >

                      Alan

                      Have you seen the Tenshodo D51 Mikado in Z?
                      and there is a C62 Hudson on its way as well.

                      cheerz Garth
                    • Alan Cox
                      ... Yes - I think it proves the point quite nicely. It looks ok at a distance and its a marvellous bit of engineering but the crankpins are huge versus scale
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 1, 2010
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                        > Have you seen the Tenshodo D51 Mikado in Z?

                        Yes - I think it proves the point quite nicely. It looks ok at a distance
                        and its a marvellous bit of engineering but the crankpins are huge versus
                        scale and the rodding looks way to heavy.

                        Steam in T would be half the size again. At that point the smallest
                        crankpins you can assemble commercially viably are about the size of the
                        loco wheels !
                      • reynard wellman
                        Hi Garth, I agree, the Tenshodo locomotives are superb given that they are also affordable Z scale steam locomotives. Over the years I have received photos of
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 1, 2010
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                          Hi Garth,
                          I agree, the Tenshodo locomotives are superb given that
                          they are also affordable Z scale steam locomotives.

                          Over the years I have received photos of some of
                          our kits that have been super-detailed by very skilled
                          customers, who have won "Best In Show" at train shows.
                          These folks use Sherline mills and lathes and often
                          "found" materials to add even more realism to our models.
                          The additional work requires patience, skill and weeks
                          of time to perfect. If someone wants to see actual "to scale"
                          drive rods and pins, it can be done but they should
                          expect to spend a lot of time on each modification
                          or expect to pay many more bucks for someone else
                          to do the work for them.

                          regardZ,
                          Reynard
                          http://www.micronart.com
                          On Oct 1, 2010, at 7:34 AM, Garth wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > EDITED
                          > >
                          > > Alan
                          > >
                          >
                          > Alan
                          >
                          > Have you seen the Tenshodo D51 Mikado in Z?
                          > and there is a C62 Hudson on its way as well.
                          >
                          > cheerz Garth
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • de Champeaux Dominique
                          Joining my voice with Garth s, I should add I m a little bit surprised that most Z scale manufacturers don t consider powering the tender rather than the loco
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 2, 2010
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                            Joining my voice with Garth's, I should add I'm a little bit surprised that most Z scale manufacturers don't consider powering the tender rather than the loco itself. Let's face it: it's quite rare for a steamer to move without its tender, if ever, and if we consider north american prototype many steamers were matched with a pretty big tender, maybe as tall as a F7 diesel loco. Starting from there it would be easy to power the tender shouldn't be?
                             
                            Dom
                             
                             


                            --- En date de : Ven 1.10.10, Garth <garth.a.hamilton@...> a écrit :


                            De: Garth <garth.a.hamilton@...>
                            Objet: [Z_Scale] Re: A little history
                            À: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Vendredi 1 octobre 2010, 14h34


                             





                            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Alan Cox <alan@...> wrote:

                            > snip
                            > I don't hold out much hope for steam in Z with current technology. The
                            > motors are too big for almost any steam, but a bigger problem would be
                            > the connecting rods and valve gear. In N doing them roughly
                            > prototypically is on the limit of acceptable robustness, in Z most of
                            > them are very oversize, snip
                            >
                            > Alan
                            >

                            Alan

                            Have you seen the Tenshodo D51 Mikado in Z?
                            and there is a C62 Hudson on its way as well.

                            cheerz Garth











                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Rick Saviano
                            I can only speak from my grandson s experience with motorized Thomas the Tank Engine (actually, it was Emily that caused the problems) where the tenders
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 2, 2010
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                              I can only speak from my grandson's experience with motorized Thomas
                              the Tank Engine (actually, it was Emily that caused the problems) where
                              the tenders pushed the engines off the track. I supposed if Emily was
                              weighted enough, it wouldn't have jumped the tracks, but it would have
                              made a pretty lethal preschool weapon.

                              - Rick Saviano

                              On 10/2/2010 7:54 AM, Alan Cox wrote:

                              > On Sat, 2 Oct 2010 13:22:53 +0100 (BST)
                              > de Champeaux Dominique<ddechamp71@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >> Joining my voice with Garth's, I should add I'm a little bit surprised that most Z scale manufacturers don't consider powering the tender rather than the loco itself.
                              > It's been tried with varying success in other scales.
                              >
                            • Alan Cox
                              On Sat, 2 Oct 2010 13:22:53 +0100 (BST) ... It s been tried with varying success in other scales. The latest Bachmann N gauge UK outline models use a tender
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 2, 2010
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                                On Sat, 2 Oct 2010 13:22:53 +0100 (BST)
                                de Champeaux Dominique <ddechamp71@...> wrote:

                                > Joining my voice with Garth's, I should add I'm a little bit surprised that most Z scale manufacturers don't consider powering the tender rather than the loco itself. Let's face it: it's quite rare for a steamer to move without its tender, if ever, and if we consider north american prototype many steamers were matched with a pretty big tender, maybe as tall as a F7 diesel loco. Starting from there it would be easy to power the tender shouldn't be?

                                It's been tried with varying success in other scales. The latest Bachmann
                                N gauge UK outline models use a tender drive but this requires the
                                locomotive itself is well weighted, extremely free wheeling, the wheels
                                are almost perfectly round and the quartering right - otherwise the
                                locomotive tends to skid down the track which looks seriously silly.

                                Another approach that would also fit Z and is used is to put the motor in
                                the tender and a drive shaft from it into the locomotive to the gearing
                                and wheels. That lets you use a bigger motor (or flywheel), and avoids
                                the problems with skidding while allowing you to put a lot of weight over
                                the drive axles.

                                Not yet seen anything that drives both.

                                For custom stuff there are other tricks one of which is to power small
                                locomotives with a tiny micromotor so it's not really able to haul much
                                but itself (and tender if relevant) around but to hide a decent motor in
                                a passenger coach or wagon. It can then run around trains, do a little
                                shunting and apparently haul large trains, the latter work really being
                                done by the hidden motor for the most part.
                              • Melissa Cull
                                Hi Tomas, I wasn t really making fun of the APTE as it was the forerunner to the Pendilino trains useed by Virgin Trains that are nice and smooth running. Like
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 4, 2010
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                                  Hi Tomas,

                                  I wasn't really making fun of the APTE as it was the forerunner to the Pendilino trains useed by Virgin Trains that are nice and smooth running.

                                  Like the Ford Capri and my favourite sports car the beautiful E-Type Jaguar- a little ahead of it's time when technology wasn't quite there:-)

                                  Kind RegardZ

                                  Melissa
                                  UK

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tomas Dickinson
                                  Sent: 30 September 2010 10:57
                                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] A little history



                                  i wouldnt make fun of the APTE, it is one of the greatest of the not so
                                  greats....

                                  In gest, tomas.



                                  ________________________________
                                  From: Melissa Cull <melissa.cull@...>
                                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thu, 30 September, 2010 7:47:54 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [Z_Scale] A little history


                                  Hi Arnim,

                                  Thanks for the info on the Railex items, wonder if it could be motorized:-)

                                  I've got a great timeline poster with all those locomotives on right up to the
                                  flopped APTE......

                                  Kind RegardZ

                                  Melissa
                                  UK
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Arnim
                                  v. Herff
                                  Sent: 29 September 2010 23:32
                                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] A little history

                                  Am Montag, 27. September 2010 17:34:12 schrieb Melissa Cull:
                                  > Would love to see that working in Z Scale! Didn't Railex do a working
                                  > Stephenson's Rocket in Z Scale?

                                  No problem posting inf... Ooops. web page by Railex is not really working, but
                                  on other hand not really dead: http://www.railex.de/neu04.htm

                                  OK! Here we go.
                                  In 2004 Railex announced a set "Rainhill Trials" in Z- and N-scale containig
                                  the Rocket by Stepenson, the Sans Pareil by Hackworth and the Novelty by
                                  Braithwaite and Ericsson. The models are not motorized. The set is (was?)
                                  available fullcoloured or in pure brass. Additionally is offered a
                                  passenger-train with one open and two closed cars. One of the closed contains
                                  a motor. And a freight with two open and one boxed car. The later one
                                  contains a motor.

                                  I did not found a web-site containig pictures. But if you will use the
                                  picture-search by Google, you'll get the pictures of the above mentioned page
                                  in using terms "railex stephenson" as first results.

                                  Hope this helps.

                                  Greetings Arnim

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Melissa Cull
                                  Hi Alan, Fabulous thanks for the UK T gauge link. Parts, chassis and even a UK brass loco kit - wow! I wish someone would sell parts like that for Z Scale for
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 7, 2010
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                                    Hi Alan,

                                    Fabulous thanks for the UK T gauge link. Parts, chassis and even a UK brass
                                    loco kit - wow! I wish someone would sell parts like that for Z Scale for
                                    scratch and kit building rather than having to buy a whole new / second hand
                                    loco and chop it up.

                                    If as with any other scale manufacturers brought out etched super detailing
                                    kits in Z then we could have wonderful more to scale steam connecting rods
                                    and details. I see BLMA do super detailing for USA diesel locos and
                                    MicronArt do some ladders and brake wheels for wagons.

                                    As the Japanese being so dextrous with tiny weeny technology have brought
                                    out T Scale I can see them doing more in Z Scale too.

                                    Nano technology will break new boundries in tiny models eventually. Look
                                    what Willard White can do in the eye of a needle - truly stunning but
                                    totally impractical unless you have a mega expensive microscope to view.

                                    Overall Z scale still has better scale looking models than much UK N and OO
                                    scale. Modelling also in British N Scale and O Scale and an occasional
                                    dabble in OO scale - standards between manufacturers are so variable. I like
                                    to super detail proprietery, kitbash and scratchbuild to get what I want but
                                    I'm not a rivet counter more like art perspective if it looks right it is
                                    right.

                                    Kind RegardZ

                                    Melissa
                                    UK

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                                    Alan Cox
                                    Sent: 01 October 2010 10:18
                                    To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] A little history



                                    See www.tgauge.co.uk

                                    They are UK based and sell all the chassis and parts including bogies etc
                                    for hacking up your own stuff. Note that for standard gauge the scale
                                    should be 1:480 and some people use it for that - so its even smaller than
                                    you might think - just under half Z.

                                    I don't hold out much hope for steam in Z with current technology. The
                                    motors are too big for almost any steam, but a bigger problem would be
                                    the connecting rods and valve gear. In N doing them roughly
                                    prototypically is on the limit of acceptable robustness, in Z most of
                                    them are very oversize, and in T you'd probably need materials out of a
                                    NASA lab !

                                    I'm surprised we've not seen any US style T stuff yet - the big bogie
                                    locos, and long bogie wagons are well suited to it.

                                    Alan



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Alan Cox
                                    ... You can make stainless steel rods easily enough - various companies like PPD will do etching for people on a small scale. For fine crankpins and the like
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 7, 2010
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                                      > kits in Z then we could have wonderful more to scale steam connecting rods
                                      > and details. I see BLMA do super detailing for USA diesel locos and

                                      You can make stainless steel rods easily enough - various companies like
                                      PPD will do etching for people on a small scale. For fine crankpins and
                                      the like the 2mm Scale Association ones are about the finest I know of in
                                      the UK but sold to members only.

                                      > As the Japanese being so dextrous with tiny weeny technology have brought
                                      > out T Scale I can see them doing more in Z Scale too.

                                      T is extremely crude in terms of rail and wheel standards, physics pretty
                                      much demands it. Also no steamers not likely to be any for a while -
                                      although I'd love to be proven wrong.

                                      > Overall Z scale still has better scale looking models than much UK N and OO
                                      > scale.

                                      Most of my work is in N doing things like detailing work. The modern UK N
                                      gauge is generally within a whisker of perfect scale and vastly superior
                                      to any Z I've seen where certain vendors seem to have trouble even getting
                                      the trucks the right length or in another vendors case in the right place.

                                      So as a ruler wielding, photo analysing, running around with a tape
                                      measure and rivet counting modeller - I'd disagree - although I'm not
                                      sure it matters vastly providing you are careful with the trackwork. At
                                      human viewing (as opposed to digicam from six inches) Z done nicely
                                      creates wonderful 'train in landscape' vistas in very small spaces.

                                      T track on the other hand is really hard to hide because of the relative
                                      coarseness. It's great narrow gauge track but hard to use for its
                                      intended purpose.

                                      Alan
                                    • mark2playz
                                      Alan, After seeing the MTL operation in Oregon, western labor doesn t have to be expensive labor. I was amazed at amount of quality manufacturing they do
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 7, 2010
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                                        Alan,
                                        After seeing the MTL operation in Oregon, western labor doesn't have to be expensive labor. I was amazed at amount of quality manufacturing they do in-house while still keeping prices low. I think the costs are determined more by smart management than cheap labor.
                                        I agree that I don't mind paying for a reasonable mark-up for western labor costs...the job I save just might be my own!

                                        Mark

                                        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Alan Cox <alan@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > On another topic about the prices for N scale vs Z scale,
                                        > > there is another reason Z equipment can be slightly higher:
                                        > > Engineering and assembly labor.
                                        >
                                        > And also the fact a lot of that labour is done in Western countries at
                                        > higher cost. Personally that makes me somewhat happier even if my bank
                                        > manager disagrees.
                                        >
                                        > And with the strikes in China, rapid wage rises and the pending trade war
                                        > with the USA the pricing margin may well narrow quite a bit.
                                        >
                                        > Alan
                                        >
                                      • mark2playz
                                        ... Hi Melissa, I ve had the opportunity to watch the ladies at MTL assembling the couplers (I think there is a video on youtube from the Z scale convention).
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Oct 7, 2010
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                                          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa Cull" <melissa.cull@...> wrote:
                                          > ...
                                          > I'd like the job in the MTL factory assembling all the tiny components,
                                          > after working with assembling Suface Mount Devices (SMD / SMT) electronics Z
                                          > scale is big - so very relaxing:-)
                                          Hi Melissa,

                                          I've had the opportunity to watch the ladies at MTL assembling the couplers (I think there is a video on youtube from the Z scale convention). Spend an afternoon doing that and I think you'd go running back to SMD.

                                          Mark
                                        • Melissa Cull
                                          Hi Mark, I also used to do very tiny fiddly engineering and electronic assembly work before SMD work. As long as you do varied batches of work then its not too
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Oct 8, 2010
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                                            Hi Mark,

                                            I also used to do very tiny fiddly engineering and electronic assembly work
                                            before SMD work. As long as you do varied batches of work then its not too
                                            monotonous and is quite theraputic. Unlike working with research computers
                                            all day on clinical auditing databases. Developing databases is fine, data
                                            entry is mind numbing - give me practical any day.

                                            If MTL or Marklin had a UK manufacturing place or UK out working then I'd be
                                            applying for a job faster than a steaming train:-)

                                            Kind RegardZ

                                            Melissa
                                            UK





                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                                            mark2playz
                                            Sent: 07 October 2010 18:58
                                            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: A little history





                                            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa Cull" <melissa.cull@...> wrote:
                                            > ...
                                            > I'd like the job in the MTL factory assembling all the tiny components,
                                            > after working with assembling Suface Mount Devices (SMD / SMT)
                                            electronics Z
                                            > scale is big - so very relaxing:-)
                                            Hi Melissa,

                                            I've had the opportunity to watch the ladies at MTL assembling the
                                            couplers (I think there is a video on youtube from the Z scale convention).
                                            Spend an afternoon doing that and I think you'd go running back to SMD.

                                            Mark






                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Melissa Cull
                                            Hi Alan, I ve seen the 2mm scale Association items at exhibitions very nice. I was going to go down that route until I found Z Scale. I can see T scale is
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Oct 8, 2010
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hi Alan,

                                              I've seen the 2mm scale Association items at exhibitions very nice. I was
                                              going to go down that route until I found Z Scale.

                                              I can see T scale is crude for it's scale but should make reasonable Narrow
                                              Gauge in Z scale or even as a model garden train O scale. Can always put
                                              finer wheels on etc.

                                              I only rivet count in O scale or above as you can really see them in that
                                              scale, especially on my scratchbuilt Sentinal Steam Shunter I'm building in
                                              nickel silver and brass- real thing looks like a chain driven riveted metal
                                              shed on wheels:-)

                                              In smaller scales as with larger I measure thrice, cut once and like to be
                                              as accurate as my eyesight allows.

                                              Kind RegardZ

                                              Melissa
                                              UK




                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                                              Alan Cox
                                              Sent: 07 October 2010 17:18
                                              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] A little history



                                              > kits in Z then we could have wonderful more to scale steam connecting
                                              rods
                                              > and details. I see BLMA do super detailing for USA diesel locos and

                                              You can make stainless steel rods easily enough - various companies like
                                              PPD will do etching for people on a small scale. For fine crankpins and
                                              the like the 2mm Scale Association ones are about the finest I know of in
                                              the UK but sold to members only.

                                              > As the Japanese being so dextrous with tiny weeny technology have
                                              brought
                                              > out T Scale I can see them doing more in Z Scale too.

                                              T is extremely crude in terms of rail and wheel standards, physics pretty
                                              much demands it. Also no steamers not likely to be any for a while -
                                              although I'd love to be proven wrong.

                                              > Overall Z scale still has better scale looking models than much UK N and
                                              OO
                                              > scale.

                                              Most of my work is in N doing things like detailing work. The modern UK N
                                              gauge is generally within a whisker of perfect scale and vastly superior
                                              to any Z I've seen where certain vendors seem to have trouble even getting
                                              the trucks the right length or in another vendors case in the right place.

                                              So as a ruler wielding, photo analysing, running around with a tape
                                              measure and rivet counting modeller - I'd disagree - although I'm not
                                              sure it matters vastly providing you are careful with the trackwork. At
                                              human viewing (as opposed to digicam from six inches) Z done nicely
                                              creates wonderful 'train in landscape' vistas in very small spaces.

                                              T track on the other hand is really hard to hide because of the relative
                                              coarseness. It's great narrow gauge track but hard to use for its
                                              intended purpose.

                                              Alan





                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • mark2playz
                                              ... Actually, I think you would. Having had the opportunity to visit the MTL factory, I had some thoughts of putting in a job application myself. Many of the
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Oct 8, 2010
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                                                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa Cull" <melissa.cull@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > ...If MTL or Marklin had a UK manufacturing place or UK out working then I'd be
                                                > applying for a job faster than a steaming train:-)
                                                >
                                                > Kind RegardZ
                                                >
                                                > Melissa
                                                > UK

                                                Actually, I think you would. Having had the opportunity to visit the MTL factory, I had some thoughts of putting in a job application myself. Many of the techniques they use today, I used in IC manufacturing in the 90s.

                                                Mark
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