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Re: [Z_Scale] InterMountain Canadian Grain Hoppers

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  • ztrack@aol.com
    Bill, Great information! Thanks for posting this! Rob Ztrack Magazine Ltd. www.ztrack.com www.ztrackcenter.com www.ztrackresale.com 6142 Northcliff Blvd Dublin
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 14, 2010
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      Bill,

      Great information! Thanks for posting this!

      Rob



      Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
      www.ztrack.com
      www.ztrackcenter.com
      www.ztrackresale.com
      6142 Northcliff Blvd
      Dublin OH 43016
      (614) 764-1703


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Gert Velthuizen
      Dear Bill, Thank you very much on the information. It ll make an interesting story for a load of modelrailroadfriends overhere after I have translated it into
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 14, 2010
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        Dear Bill,



        Thank you very much on the information.

        It'll make an interesting story for a load of modelrailroadfriends overhere after I have translated it into Dutch.



        I have some of the HO versions of the IM cars from the early start and some of later date and I love them. I guess I will love them in Z too, wasn't/isn't IM the actual producer for the Full Throttle ones in various paintschemes?



        Keep having fun!



        Gert




        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        From: WRDixon@...
        Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:26:39 -0700
        Subject: [Z_Scale] InterMountain Canadian Grain Hoppers





        A few notes on the just announced InterMountain Canadian Grain hoppers.

        This car was the first HO scale model released by InterMountain in 1993.
        It has remained their best seller with some paint schemes (Red Canada)
        now numbering over 100 road numbers released.

        A short history of the car.
        The genesis of the car goes back to the late 1890's when the CPR
        (Canadian Pacific Railway) signed the Crows Nest Agreement with the
        Canadian Government. This exchanged a a subsidy for railway construction
        for perpetual low grain transportation rates. The agreement lasted until
        the early 1980s. Over time the low grain shipment rates paid for less
        and less of the cost of actually transporting the grain. Because of this
        the railways did not spend any money on new grain cars. In the late
        1960s the grain fleet consisted of old 40' steel box cars and a large
        number of tired 1920s (and earlier) 36' single sheathed Wood box cars.
        As these tired old cars were being retired at an ever increasing rate a
        grain car shortage was developing.

        In the early 1970s the Canadian Federal Government stepped in and
        started building new cylindrical covered grain hoppers. Over time the
        Federal Government and two Provincial Governments ( Alberta and
        Saskatchewan ) built close to 19,000 cars in several variations. The
        cars were supposed to stay on Canadian rails but they ended up wandering
        far and wide.

        The InterMountain car represents the later version of the car. There
        were several paint schemes that were only on the earlier version.
        Although it would be nice if InterMountain made a new model for the
        earlier car, given the small size of the detail differences I would not
        be bothered if those interesting paint schemes were done on this car.

        This car also came equipped with six round hatches for Potash (and other
        products) transportation. If the grain car does well I would expect
        InterMountain to release these cars as well. It only requires tooling
        for a new roof and set of round hatches.

        Some Detail Notes

        The early cars were delivered with ACI labels. Even though the ACI
        system died early the labels lasted a long time on these cars. An
        interesting spotting feature in the 90's was an aluminum rectangle on
        the car side where the label had been sanded off.

        The cars were delivered with a consistent set of trough hatches painted
        in the car colour scheme. Over time as these were damaged they were
        replaced with whatever was on hand. So you could have several different
        types of hatches in different colours on a car.

        One feature seldom modeled is growing grain on the end platforms. Some
        grain is always spilled when these cars are loaded and some lands on the
        end platforms. With the dirt there and rain water this sprouts and
        grows. An interesting detail you can add.

        The cars tended to stay on their home rails. Thus CPR cars (CNWX, ALPX,
        SKPX) were seldom mixed with CNR cars (CNWX, ALNX, SKNX) in trains. At
        grain terminals however you can find string of both cars.

        The Government has been selling the cars to the railways. To represent
        this on the Red Canada cars (CNWX and CPWX), paint out the "WX" to leave
        CN or CP.

        Graffiti - These cars have nice big sides, Graffiti artists (vandals)
        love all that space. Many cars are tagged. Some very artfully, some just
        vandalized.

        -

        Images
        The web site:
        http://tracksidetreasure.blogspot.com/2010/04/canadas-cylindrical-grain-cars.html
        has some interesting images.

        Rail Model Journal had a book on covered hoppers some time ago that
        covered these cars. I have forgotten the title. Perhaps someone out
        there has a copy and can let us all know.

        Lastly InterMountain has kindly supplied good images of HO scale cars so
        the web page:

        http://www.central-hobbies.com/products/intermountainz.html

        has been updated with these better images. I have reworked the
        images of CNR lettered cars to show the CPR lettering.

        I am looking forward to these cars. A long string of Red Canada cars
        behind a pair of CP Rail SD40-2s will look great.

        Regards
        Bill Dixon





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ztrack@aol.com
        ... Gert, Bowser produces the cylindrials for Full Throttle as well as their line of two bay hoppers. Rob Ztrack Magazine Ltd. www.ztrack.com
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 14, 2010
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          In a message dated 7/14/10 9:20:10 AM, gertvelthuizen@... writes:


          > I guess I will love them in Z too, wasn't/isn't IM the actual producer
          > for the Full Throttle ones in various paintschemes?
          >

          Gert,

          Bowser produces the cylindrials for Full Throttle as well as their line of
          two bay hoppers.

          Rob



          Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
          www.ztrack.com
          www.ztrackcenter.com
          www.ztrackresale.com
          6142 Northcliff Blvd
          Dublin OH 43016
          (614) 764-1703


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gert Velthuizen
          OK, Thank you. Love those too, you know... Gert To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com From: ztrack@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:40:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [Z_Scale]
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 14, 2010
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            OK, Thank you.

            Love those too, you know...



            Gert



            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
            From: ztrack@...
            Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:40:42 -0400
            Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] InterMountain Canadian Grain Hoppers






            In a message dated 7/14/10 9:20:10 AM, gertvelthuizen@... writes:

            > I guess I will love them in Z too, wasn't/isn't IM the actual producer
            > for the Full Throttle ones in various paintschemes?
            >

            Gert,

            Bowser produces the cylindrials for Full Throttle as well as their line of
            two bay hoppers.

            Rob

            Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
            www.ztrack.com
            www.ztrackcenter.com
            www.ztrackresale.com
            6142 Northcliff Blvd
            Dublin OH 43016
            (614) 764-1703

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Loren Snyder
            Bill, Great info on the new IM cars. Thanks, Loren ... From: W.R.Dixon Date: 7/14/2010 12:28:37 AM To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Z_Scale]
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 14, 2010
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              Bill,
              Great info on the new IM cars. Thanks,
              Loren




              -------Original Message-------

              From: W.R.Dixon
              Date: 7/14/2010 12:28:37 AM
              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Z_Scale] InterMountain Canadian Grain Hoppers

              <snip>
              A few notes on the just announced InterMountain Canadian Grain hoppers.

              This car was the first HO scale model released by InterMountain in 1993.
              It has remained their best seller with some paint schemes (Red Canada)
              now numbering over 100 road numbers released.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • W.R.Dixon
              ... I was digging through some magazines today and found an an article on these cars in the March 1992 Railroad Model Craftsman. Bill Dixon
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 14, 2010
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                ztrack@... wrote:
                > Bill,
                >
                > Great information! Thanks for posting this!
                >
                > Rob


                I was digging through some magazines today and found an an article on
                these cars in the March 1992 Railroad Model Craftsman.

                Bill Dixon
              • CJ Walsh
                This year Hallmark is offering the Lionel UP M-10000 in their Keepsake Christmas ornament series. It will be interesting to see if it is close to Z-scale.
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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                  This year Hallmark is offering the Lionel UP M-10000 in their Keepsake
                  Christmas ornament series. It will be interesting to see if it is close
                  to Z-scale.

                  From their catalog:

                  LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Locomotive
                  Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 1/2" W.
                  $18.95 USA QX8626

                  LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Long Coach
                  Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 1/2" W.
                  $14.95 USA QXI2023

                  LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Buffet Coach
                  Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 3/4" W.
                  $14.95 USA QXI2013

                  You can see all three pieces in the on-line catalog at Hallmark.com.

                  Cheerz,

                  CJ Walsh
                • Loren Snyder
                  Hallmark is also offering the Berkshire steam that is featured in Polar Express. I ve seen it and it looks like it might be fairly close to Z scale Not too
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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                    Hallmark is also offering the Berkshire steam that is featured in Polar
                    Express. I've seen it and it looks like it might be fairly close to Z scale
                    Not too bad a looking loco if you don't get up too awfully close. The
                    three foot rule would certainly work in this case.

                    Loren




                    -------Original Message-------

                    From: CJ Walsh
                    Date: 7/15/2010 10:54:20 AM
                    To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Z_Scale] Hallmark Keepsake Ornament for 2010

                    This year Hallmark is offering the Lionel UP M-10000 in their Keepsake
                    Christmas ornament series. It will be interesting to see if it is close
                    to Z-scale.

                    From their catalog:

                    LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Locomotive
                    Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 1/2" W.
                    $18.95 USA QX8626

                    LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Long Coach
                    Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 1/2" W.
                    $14.95 USA QXI2023

                    LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Buffet Coach
                    Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 3/4" W.
                    $14.95 USA QXI2013

                    You can see all three pieces in the on-line catalog at Hallmark.com.

                    Cheerz,

                    CJ Walsh




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Randall Smidt
                    I picked up one of the M-10000 sets last night, but haven t had a chance to measure it yet.  It seems about the right size, but since the prototype train
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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                      I picked up one of the M-10000 sets last night, but haven't had a chance to measure it yet.  It seems about the right size, but since the prototype train itself was a little on the small side, I can't tell for sure until I dig out my drawings and compare the measurements.

                      The gauge is about 7.5mm which is big for Z, but gauge doesn't mean much for Hallmark ornaments.  It scales out to about 78' long and 12-14' wide for the power unit, which sounds about right for a passenger car, but as I said, this was a small train.

                      I saw the polar express train as well.  No tender (not really a problem), and it is plastic and not as detailed as some other Hallmark ornaments, but it does seem to be the right size.  I haven't bought one yet (forgot and left my coupon at home).

                      In October, they will release the miniature train set with a steam engine (2-4-2), tender, and gondola.  Might or moght not be too small.

                      Randy

                      --- On Thu, 7/15/10, Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...> wrote:

                      From: Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...>
                      Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Hallmark Keepsake Ornament for 2010
                      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, July 15, 2010, 5:05 PM







                       









                      Hallmark is also offering the Berkshire steam that is featured in Polar

                      Express. I've seen it and it looks like it might be fairly close to Z scale

                      Not too bad a looking loco if you don't get up too awfully close. The

                      three foot rule would certainly work in this case.





                      Loren














                      -------Original Message-------





                      From: CJ Walsh


                      Date: 7/15/2010 10:54:20 AM


                      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com


                      Subject: [Z_Scale] Hallmark Keepsake Ornament for 2010





                      This year Hallmark is offering the Lionel UP M-10000 in their Keepsake


                      Christmas ornament series. It will be interesting to see if it is close


                      to Z-scale.





                      From their catalog:





                      LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Locomotive


                      Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 1/2" W.


                      $18.95 USA QX8626





                      LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Long Coach


                      Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 1/2" W.


                      $14.95 USA QXI2023





                      LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Buffet Coach


                      Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 3/4" W.


                      $14.95 USA QXI2013





                      You can see all three pieces in the on-line catalog at Hallmark.com.





                      Cheerz,





                      CJ Walsh












                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Thomas Creighton Sr
                      what coupon? ________________________________ From: Randall Smidt To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, July 15, 2010 7:21:55 PM
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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                        what coupon?




                        ________________________________
                        From: Randall Smidt <randy@...>
                        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thu, July 15, 2010 7:21:55 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Hallmark Keepsake Ornament for 2010

                         
                        I picked up one of the M-10000 sets last night, but haven't had a chance to
                        measure it yet.  It seems about the right size, but since the prototype train
                        itself was a little on the small side, I can't tell for sure until I dig out my
                        drawings and compare the measurements.

                        The gauge is about 7.5mm which is big for Z, but gauge doesn't mean much for
                        Hallmark ornaments.  It scales out to about 78' long and 12-14' wide for the
                        power unit, which sounds about right for a passenger car, but as I said, this
                        was a small train.

                        I saw the polar express train as well.  No tender (not really a problem), and it
                        is plastic and not as detailed as some other Hallmark ornaments, but it does
                        seem to be the right size.  I haven't bought one yet (forgot and left my coupon
                        at home).

                        In October, they will release the miniature train set with a steam engine
                        (2-4-2), tender, and gondola.  Might or moght not be too small.

                        Randy

                        --- On Thu, 7/15/10, Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...> wrote:

                        From: Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...>
                        Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Hallmark Keepsake Ornament for 2010
                        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, July 15, 2010, 5:05 PM

                         

                        Hallmark is also offering the Berkshire steam that is featured in Polar

                        Express. I've seen it and it looks like it might be fairly close to Z scale

                        Not too bad a looking loco if you don't get up too awfully close. The

                        three foot rule would certainly work in this case.

                        Loren

                        -------Original Message-------

                        From: CJ Walsh

                        Date: 7/15/2010 10:54:20 AM

                        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com

                        Subject: [Z_Scale] Hallmark Keepsake Ornament for 2010

                        This year Hallmark is offering the Lionel UP M-10000 in their Keepsake

                        Christmas ornament series. It will be interesting to see if it is close

                        to Z-scale.

                        From their catalog:

                        LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Locomotive

                        Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 1/2" W.

                        $18.95 USA QX8626

                        LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Long Coach

                        Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 1/2" W.

                        $14.95 USA QXI2023

                        LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Buffet Coach

                        Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 3/4" W.

                        $14.95 USA QXI2013

                        You can see all three pieces in the on-line catalog at Hallmark.com.

                        Cheerz,

                        CJ Walsh

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • GLENN
                        ... The UP set does appear to be close to Z scale. The miniature sets tend to be too small for Z scale. The Polar Express steamer may be useable as a park
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 16, 2010
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                          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Creighton Sr <bigtrain6@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > what coupon?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I sometimes get a coupon for Hallmark purchases in the mail for the local store. Usually mixed in with coupons for other local business like Jiffy Lube I can't use.

                          The UP set does appear to be close to Z scale. The miniature sets tend to be too small for Z scale. The Polar Express steamer may be useable as a park engine. Needs a tender.
                          I'm watching for the Vacation House that may be useful. Too bad the church series has ended.
                        • Randall Smidt
                          I measured the whole three car set last night (The only prototype dimension I could find online was the length of the entire three car train set) and it scales
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 17, 2010
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                            I measured the whole three car set last night (The only prototype dimension I could find online was the length of the entire three car train set) and it scales out about 3% larger than Z or about 1/210th scale.  Width measures out to 11.5' wide (in 1/220).

                            Interesting thing about this set is that the cars are joined together by magnets in the articulated part/vestibule section instead of by couplers.  The power car is cast metal and the cars are plastic.  I noticed that the brown paint color on the power car is slightly different than on the cars, probably due to one being metal and the other being plastic.

                            The M-10000 was a three car set as this ornament set is, but the box says it is a model of (the Lionel toy train of) the M-10001 which was run as a longer train set with a sleeper.  The car numbers used don't quite seem to match up though.  Still have to check that (as well as dig out my drawings that are currently buried in the basement).

                            This is one I've personally been hoping for for a long time.

                            Randy

                            --- On Fri, 7/16/10, GLENN <glennwoodle@...> wrote:

                            From: GLENN <glennwoodle@...>
                            Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Hallmark Keepsake Ornament for 2010
                            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Friday, July 16, 2010, 10:01 PM


                            The UP set does appear to be close to Z scale. The miniature sets tend to be too small for Z scale. The Polar Express steamer may be useable as a park engine. Needs a tender.

                            I'm watching for the Vacation House that may be useful. Too bad the church series has ended.

                            _,_._,___












                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Danny Goodman
                            There is a difference between the UP M-1000x trains and Lionel s versions. It s true that the UP (prototype) City of Portland entered service as a 6-car train.
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 18, 2010
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                              There is a difference between the UP M-1000x trains and Lionel's versions. It's true that the UP (prototype) City of Portland entered service as a 6-car train. But AFAIK, Lionel's version of the CoP was only three cars total with perhaps an available extra car (I don't have any Lionel prewar catalogs to confirm, but their more recent commemorative issue of the M-10000 had an optional extra car). The 752W, 753, and 754 numbers on the ornaments (Lionel numbers) are consistent with prewar models I've seen (although there was also a 752E engine, both in UP colors -- I'm not sure the difference between the two issues, perhaps the E was City of Salina M-10000).

                              I have an original copy of the Ranks/Kratville UP Streamliners book, which contains a museum full of photos (including construction and component photos) and drawings of these extraordinary trains. The M-1000x series is by far my favorite in all of traindom.

                              Danny

                              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Randall Smidt <randy@...> wrote:

                              >
                              > The M-10000 was a three car set as this ornament set is, but the box says it is a model of (the Lionel toy train of) the M-10001 which was run as a longer train set with a sleeper.  The car numbers used don't quite seem to match up though. 
                            • Rocco
                              Coupon? How is one obtained? ________________________________ From: Randall Smidt To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, July 15, 2010
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 25, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Coupon? How is one obtained?





                                ________________________________
                                From: Randall Smidt <randy@...>
                                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thu, July 15, 2010 7:21:55 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Hallmark Keepsake Ornament for 2010


                                I picked up one of the M-10000 sets last night, but haven't had a chance to
                                measure it yet. It seems about the right size, but since the prototype train
                                itself was a little on the small side, I can't tell for sure until I dig out my
                                drawings and compare the measurements.

                                The gauge is about 7.5mm which is big for Z, but gauge doesn't mean much for
                                Hallmark ornaments. It scales out to about 78' long and 12-14' wide for the
                                power unit, which sounds about right for a passenger car, but as I said, this
                                was a small train.

                                I saw the polar express train as well. No tender (not really a problem), and it
                                is plastic and not as detailed as some other Hallmark ornaments, but it does
                                seem to be the right size. I haven't bought one yet (forgot and left my coupon
                                at home).

                                In October, they will release the miniature train set with a steam engine
                                (2-4-2), tender, and gondola. Might or moght not be too small.

                                Randy

                                --- On Thu, 7/15/10, Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...> wrote:

                                From: Loren Snyder <ljsnyder@...>
                                Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Hallmark Keepsake Ornament for 2010
                                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Thursday, July 15, 2010, 5:05 PM



                                Hallmark is also offering the Berkshire steam that is featured in Polar

                                Express. I've seen it and it looks like it might be fairly close to Z scale

                                Not too bad a looking loco if you don't get up too awfully close. The

                                three foot rule would certainly work in this case.

                                Loren

                                -------Original Message-------

                                From: CJ Walsh

                                Date: 7/15/2010 10:54:20 AM

                                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com

                                Subject: [Z_Scale] Hallmark Keepsake Ornament for 2010

                                This year Hallmark is offering the Lionel UP M-10000 in their Keepsake

                                Christmas ornament series. It will be interesting to see if it is close

                                to Z-scale.

                                From their catalog:

                                LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Locomotive

                                Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 1/2" W.

                                $18.95 USA QX8626

                                LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Long Coach

                                Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 1/2" W.

                                $14.95 USA QXI2023

                                LIONEL® Union Pacific Streamliner Buffet Coach

                                Wheels turn. Handcrafted and metal. 3 3/4" W.

                                $14.95 USA QXI2013

                                You can see all three pieces in the on-line catalog at Hallmark.com.

                                Cheerz,

                                CJ Walsh

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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