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Re: [Z_Scale] Re: D51 Japanese Mikado at show yesterday.

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  • Reynard Wellman
    Hi Garth, Thank you for providing us some history behind this manufacturers credentials. It does reflect the kind of R & D that must go on before stamping out
    Message 1 of 28 , Feb 6, 2010
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      Hi Garth,
      Thank you for providing us some history behind this manufacturers
      credentials. It does reflect the kind of R & D that must go on before
      stamping out thousands of units. As for scale; it is as accurate
      as anything out there from other Z manufacturers. I took
      D51 measurements yesterday and they do hold up to the published
      dimensions. Good news all around and hopefully Tenshodo
      will dive into the North American (US, Canada, Mexico) market
      drawing from their well of experience to make good steamers
      for all Z scalers.

      regardZ,
      Reynard
      On Feb 6, 2010, at 12:02 PM, Garth wrote:

      > It would be interesting to see just how many pieces Tenshodo made
      > in the 8 variations of the Z-scale Mikado.
      >
      > Tenshodo has been making models in various scales for years going
      > back further than WWII. They were the superior brand in the 80's
      > for No. American brass engines. As for R&D that is one place where
      > they have already done it. This engine has been previously produced
      > in 3 scales that I know of by Tenshodo in Brass in Japan. They may
      > even have a vast resource of R&D from their HO and O gauge North
      > American production days.
      >
      > I think it is this vast resource of engineering data they have
      > amassed long before these engines died coupled with a good Chinese
      > partner that have made this Z-Scale D51 possible at the price it is
      > being offered at. If you are not familiar with the Japanese N-scale
      > Market this engine came out at about the same price break as Kato
      > and Micro Ace steam engines have been selling for in Japan for
      > several years.
      >
      > I do not know how many are produced in a run but I know that with
      > few exceptions they do not last for really long periods of time on
      > the shelves of the hobby stores in Japan. In many cases the really
      > popular releases reappear again after a few years.
      >
      > It was interesting to note that when I tallied up the total
      > production of the various Steam Engines types produced just by
      > Micro Ace in Japan since the late 1990's to the present, that it
      > exceeds the total number of models produced for whole North
      > American Market since the start of N-scale with Treble O in England
      > in the late 1960's.
      >
      > cheerz Garth
      > EDITED


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Garth
      Hi Reynard; Well I do not think this engine is going to lead us to more steam for No. AM. in Z but it could in the future. For instance a C57 or C62 done in
      Message 2 of 28 , Feb 6, 2010
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        Hi Reynard;

        Well I do not think this engine is going to lead us to more steam for No. AM. in Z but it could in the future. For instance a C57 or C62 done in 1:200 for Z would be right for a Pacific in Z for us at 1:220 and the other engine is a Hudson wheel arrangement and the same holds true for it. The Hudsons however have very different wheel centers than we are used to seeing in No. Am. but some of the C57 look right for a No. Am. Pacific. I have used the 1:150 Japanese Pacific's to make some very nice operating No. Am. Pacific for my Athabaska Northern. If this D51 had been scaled at 1:200 it would have fit into some of the lighter No. Am. Mikado's and 2-8-0's very nicely.

        It will be interesting to find out just how many of these Japanese D51's in Z are being produced and just how well they sell. The Japanese market has been buying the Z but there is still a lot of the earlier stuff around and two manufacturers have already pulled out of the market without producing much of what they promised. Pro-Z as scaled way back on what they proposed to offer in Z initially. There modular layouts are quite easy to find still in good supply and so we have not seen any of the buildings appear as separate offerings. They had a good spread of stuff a year ago and none of it has made the market yet. It has taken a full year to get the first of the track only starter sets announced and they are not delivered yet. The switch that was to have appeared on their curved diorama piece never appeared, but they finally got the straight track sections out along with an addition power pack feed cord so those with the dioramas could configure them to a double track main from the folded figure 8 of the original. The sad part about the diorama's is the D51 won't run on it as the radii are all smaller than 195mm as they are 170mm and 145mm. While their stuff runs well on the diorama all the other manufacturers have set 195mm as the minimum radius. I understand Crown or PRMLoco will take over production of the RealZJ track system that is very similar to Micro Trains roadbed track as well as the very nice power pack. None of the passenger cars promised by Crown or RealZJ and Terranetz have ever come to market and Terranetz put out the one set when RealZj quit introducing new material and noting since that and then 6 months ago they announced that they were not continuing in the scale. So it has not been all roses with Z in Japan.

        I believe the first Electric produced for RealZJ was actually done by Tenshodo as they sold 2 colour variations of it under their own banner and 2 other variations were sold by RealZJ so the D51 is not their first Z scale issue.

        There is certainly interest in Z in Japan and the Micro Trains Lineup is readily available in a couple of places as is Marklin. Currently Sankei, a card stock building kit manufacturer is the only one producing buildings in Z-scale some Japanese and some American. They have a water tower and coaling kit currently available among about a dozen other offerings.

        I have been involved with Japanese profile steam in N-scale and trollys since about 1978. So that is my background for interest and why I sort have the beat covered so to say. That is how I ran into it when Z first hit the street in Japan.

        I have created several Japanese Engines before they were introduced in Z using static models modified to fit on a Marklin or Micro Trains Chassis. EF58 ED78, C58 and D51 all at 1:200. I also have passenger cars that were originally released as M gauge 1:200 as a battery operated toy on plastic track that was just a ditch in a piece of plastic made to look like rail from Takahara before they joined with Tomix (Tomy the parent of both now and know as Takahara-Tomy) I took off the toy trucks and added Micro Trains 4 wheel passenger trucks and 905 couplers and voila a Japanese electric passenger train with EF58 front end power using a Marlin GG1 chassis with added weight.

        You can see most of this stuff on www.nn3.ca on the Japanese Z Pages. I did all this at the same time I powered the Hallmark Freedom PA's and converted the trucks on the cars to use 36 inch wheels and 905 couplers and acetate axle end inserts from Robert Ray. Created a baggage car and sides for a coach and dinner. Tried to create a metal insert for the truck frame to use metal wheels and axles to get a smoother running 3 axle passenger truck in Z scale but I did not get all the art work quite right so it did not work quite as nicely as I had hoped. Might do better now with a better source of metal wheels.

        Up here in the backwoods north of the border we are constantly building something or other.

        cheerz Garth

        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Reynard Wellman <micron@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Garth,
        > Thank you for providing us some history behind this manufacturers
        > credentials. It does reflect the kind of R & D that must go on before
        > stamping out thousands of units. As for scale; it is as accurate
        > as anything out there from other Z manufacturers. I took
        > D51 measurements yesterday and they do hold up to the published
        > dimensions. Good news all around and hopefully Tenshodo
        > will dive into the North American (US, Canada, Mexico) market
        > drawing from their well of experience to make good steamers
        > for all Z scalers.
        >
        > regardZ,
        > Reynard
        > On Feb 6, 2010, at 12:02 PM, Garth wrote:
        >
        > > It would be interesting to see just how many pieces Tenshodo made
        > > in the 8 variations of the Z-scale Mikado.
        > >
        > > Tenshodo has been making models in various scales for years going
        > > back further than WWII. They were the superior brand in the 80's
        > > for No. American brass engines. As for R&D that is one place where
        > > they have already done it. This engine has been previously produced
        > > in 3 scales that I know of by Tenshodo in Brass in Japan. They may
        > > even have a vast resource of R&D from their HO and O gauge North
        > > American production days.
        > >
        > > I think it is this vast resource of engineering data they have
        > > amassed long before these engines died coupled with a good Chinese
        > > partner that have made this Z-Scale D51 possible at the price it is
        > > being offered at. If you are not familiar with the Japanese N-scale
        > > Market this engine came out at about the same price break as Kato
        > > and Micro Ace steam engines have been selling for in Japan for
        > > several years.
        > >
        > > I do not know how many are produced in a run but I know that with
        > > few exceptions they do not last for really long periods of time on
        > > the shelves of the hobby stores in Japan. In many cases the really
        > > popular releases reappear again after a few years.
        > >
        > > It was interesting to note that when I tallied up the total
        > > production of the various Steam Engines types produced just by
        > > Micro Ace in Japan since the late 1990's to the present, that it
        > > exceeds the total number of models produced for whole North
        > > American Market since the start of N-scale with Treble O in England
        > > in the late 1960's.
        > >
        > > cheerz Garth
        > > EDITED
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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