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RE: [Z_Scale] What happened to the power?

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  • Matthew Parker
    I did touch the probes to the terminals of the feeder track, but there was no needle movement. I then put the probes directly on the track and still nothing.
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 2, 2009
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      I did touch the probes to the terminals of the feeder track, but there was no needle movement. I then put the probes directly on the track and still nothing. Both loops are connected to the same power source as the rest of the layout off of one turnout at each end. They are not islolated or insulated. Neither are any of my three passing tracks.

      At this stage, I won't be doing any switching in the strictest sense. Some consists of cars will be left on passing tracks without engines just for a place to put them and to switch loads for testing purposes. If you're refering to a yard of sorts, not yet. I'm also going to be running one engine or consist of engines on this part of my layout at any given time.

      I'm using MTL turnouts exclusively simply because I can't get Marklin turnouts here accept by mailorder.



      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
      From: AFN47583@...
      Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 07:03:48 -0400
      Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] What happened to the power?







      I also suspect that, as Tom said, you have a short due to not having
      isolators on the loops. In the files section of our site
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale/files/ you will find a PDF
      file titled Loops.pdf that I did years ago with pictures and
      descriptions of how to set up the feed and isolators on a loop using
      Marklin track and turnouts or indeed any turnouts where the frog and
      rails are not switched by the turnout itself. The PDF includes the
      use of catenary if desired but that can be ignored if you have no
      catenary. It is just an extra connection between the transformer and
      the catenary and doesn't affect the workings of the loop itself.

      You will need a DPDT switch either hand operated or solenoid type to
      make a loop work but the same switch will do the job for both loops
      or indeed for however many loops you want to put off the main line.
      This also allows the use of only one loco on the set at a time. If
      you want to run more then one loco at a time then you also have to do
      block control and things get more complicated rapidly.

      If you enjoy doing switching operations then Garth also has a file in
      the files section named Live-overhead that uses a double loop and
      requires uncoupling and recoupling the loco to the train but seems to
      require power routing turnouts. I never did try to figure that one
      out completely as that was a bit more work then I wanted to do just
      to run a train through a loop. I do like to do switching operations
      in the yard when I feel like it. Most of the time I just like to
      watch the trains run around. :-)

      Manfred
    • Loren
      Matthew, If your speaker wire is the clear sheathed kind you might find at Radio Shack or some electronics store, then your speaker wire is good enough to
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 2, 2009
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        Matthew,
        If your speaker wire is the clear sheathed kind you might find at Radio
        Shack or some electronics store, then your speaker wire is good enough to
        power anything you may have in Z scale.

        Loren

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Matthew Parker" <echo31a@...>
        To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 7:18 AM
        Subject: RE: [Z_Scale] What happened to the power?


        > I've been reading other responses to this and I am thinking that the
        > problem could in fact be at my loops. They are running off the same power
        > as the rest of the layout and it does make sense that I'm trying to feed
        > the power back into itself through the turnouts. They are not insulated or
        > isolated in any way. As for the speaker wire, I have no idea what gauge it
        > is, my son gave it too me months ago and said it would be perfect for my
        > layout. Maybe I should get different wire?
      • de Champeaux Dominique
        ... So if I ve properly understood that s it: without any isolation the (+) rail comes back on the (-) stockrail, thus the short. In my opinion you should cut
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 3, 2009
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          >I've been reading other responses to this and I am thinking that the >problem could in fact be at my loops. They are running off the same power >as the rest of the layout and it does make sense that I'm trying to feed >the power back into itself through the turnouts. They are not insulated >or isolated in any way.

          So if I've properly understood that's it: without any isolation the (+) rail comes back on the (-) stockrail, thus the short. In my opinion you should cut a gap on each rail leaving the turnout, straight and curve (thus 4 gaps as a total), and feed the loop with an inverter that allows to change polarity when the train comes back to the turnout.

          Dom
        • Edward Scullin
          MattThe wire is not the problem.  The reversing loops must be isolated.  I  do not know where the actual placement of the isolating gaps should be. There
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 3, 2009
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            MattThe wire is not the problem.  The reversing loops must be isolated.  I  do not know where the actual placement of the isolating gaps should be. There others here that can help you.Ed ScullinRoanoke VA

            --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Matthew Parker <echo31a@...> wrote:

            From: Matthew Parker <echo31a@...>
            Subject: RE: [Z_Scale] What happened to the power?
            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 7:18 AM
























            I've been reading other responses to this and I am thinking that the problem could in fact be at my loops. They are running off the same power as the rest of the layout and it does make sense that I'm trying to feed the power back into itself through the turnouts. They are not insulated or isolated in any way. As for the speaker wire, I have no idea what gauge it is, my son gave it too me months ago and said it would be perfect for my layout. Maybe I should get different wire?

































            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Matthew Parker
            Yes thanks Ed. I solved the problem of my loops by disconnection one section of track in each loops. My engines now run at the speeds they were intended to.
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 3, 2009
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              Yes thanks Ed. I solved the problem of my loops by disconnection one section of track in each loops. My engines now run at the speeds they were intended to. Now all I have to so is insulate and attache wire and controller boxes for each hoop to transfer power.



              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              From: sculline@...
              Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 07:26:43 -0700
              Subject: RE: [Z_Scale] What happened to the power?







              MattThe wire is not the problem. The reversing loops must be isolated. I do not know where the actual placement of the isolating gaps should be. There others here that can help you.Ed ScullinRoanoke VA

              --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Matthew Parker <echo31a@...> wrote:

              From: Matthew Parker <echo31a@...>
              Subject: RE: [Z_Scale] What happened to the power?
              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 7:18 AM

              I've been reading other responses to this and I am thinking that the problem could in fact be at my loops. They are running off the same power as the rest of the layout and it does make sense that I'm trying to feed the power back into itself through the turnouts. They are not insulated or isolated in any way. As for the speaker wire, I have no idea what gauge it is, my son gave it too me months ago and said it would be perfect for my layout. Maybe I should get different wire?















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









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            • Matthew Parker
              Yes you ve got it. I was thinking along the same lines so I went out today and purchased a twin contol box for loops and it gives complete instalation
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 3, 2009
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                Yes you've got it. I was thinking along the same lines so I went out today and purchased a twin contol box for loops and it gives complete instalation instructions on the back, but instead of cutting gaps in the rails is show using insulated joiners. But I can get them here. So I guess cutting the gaps will work the same way as the joiners. I just have to follow the directions on the back of the package. That reminds me, I have to pick up some more wire.



                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                From: ddechamp71@...
                Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 13:53:36 +0000
                Subject: RE: [Z_Scale] What happened to the power?








                >I've been reading other responses to this and I am thinking that the >problem could in fact be at my loops. They are running off the same power >as the rest of the layout and it does make sense that I'm trying to feed >the power back into itself through the turnouts. They are not insulated >or isolated in any way.

                So if I've properly understood that's it: without any isolation the (+) rail comes back on the (-) stockrail, thus the short. In my opinion you should cut a gap on each rail leaving the turnout, straight and curve (thus 4 gaps as a total), and feed the loop with an inverter that allows to change polarity when the train comes back to the turnout.

                Dom









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              • Matthew Parker
                Thankyou Loren for that. I was so hoping that my son was right about speaker wire being all that I needed herre. Yes it is the clear sheathed stuff. To:
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 3, 2009
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                  Thankyou Loren for that. I was so hoping that my son was right about speaker wire being all that I needed herre. Yes it is the clear sheathed stuff.



                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                  From: ljsnyder@...
                  Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 21:54:37 -0700
                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] What happened to the power?







                  Matthew,
                  If your speaker wire is the clear sheathed kind you might find at Radio
                  Shack or some electronics store, then your speaker wire is good enough to
                  power anything you may have in Z scale.

                  Loren

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Matthew Parker" <echo31a@...>
                  To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 7:18 AM
                  Subject: RE: [Z_Scale] What happened to the power?

                  > I've been reading other responses to this and I am thinking that the
                  > problem could in fact be at my loops. They are running off the same power
                  > as the rest of the layout and it does make sense that I'm trying to feed
                  > the power back into itself through the turnouts. They are not insulated or
                  > isolated in any way. As for the speaker wire, I have no idea what gauge it
                  > is, my son gave it too me months ago and said it would be perfect for my
                  > layout. Maybe I should get different wire?









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