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MTL Z-trak

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  • wallywaldau
    Hi guys I have an N scale layout which uses Kato mini-trakc. I noticed that the power goes with the direction of the switch. Does MTL Z-track work the same
    Message 1 of 29 , Jun 14, 2009
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      Hi guys

      I have an N scale layout which uses Kato mini-trakc. I noticed that the power goes with the direction of the switch. Does MTL Z-track work the same way?

      Wally
    • Garth Hamilton
      Wally; The direction the train travels on the track is a function of how you have your power connected to the track and the orientation of the switch on the
      Message 2 of 29 , Jun 14, 2009
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        Wally;

        The direction the train travels on the track is a function of how you have your power connected to the track and the orientation of the switch on the power pack you are using. Not all power packs have the switch oriented horizontally on the front panel to show left and right. Some have them going up and down for ahead and reverse.

        When engines are assembled there is a convention as to which way they are wired so they all run in the same direction if the left hand track has the positive power lead. So if your geep is going forward and you stop it and pick it up and turn it around and put it back on the track it will now run backwards, but it is still running in the same direction it was originally as long as the direction switch is not moved.

        cheers
        Garth


        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "wallywaldau" <wallywaldau@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi guys
        >
        > I have an N scale layout which uses Kato mini-trakc. I noticed that the power goes with the direction of the switch. Does MTL Z-track work the same way?
        >
        > Wally
        >
      • Larry Card
        ... Just to clarify, are you asking if the turnouts are power routing? (Meaning that the power is routed to the track that the turnout is turned to.) V/R
        Message 3 of 29 , Jun 14, 2009
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          > I have an N scale layout which uses Kato mini-trakc. I noticed that the power goes with the direction of the switch. Does MTL Z-track work the same way?

          Just to clarify, are you asking if the turnouts are power routing? (Meaning that the power is routed to the track that the turnout is turned to.)

          V/R
          Larry P. Card
          Franklinton NC

          _________________________________________________________________
          Windows Live�: Keep your life in sync.
          http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • wallywaldau
          ... With the Kato track, a siding has no juice until the switch is turned to the siding so the switch acts to isolate the siding or spur as a active or
          Message 4 of 29 , Jun 14, 2009
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            > Just to clarify, are you asking if the turnouts are power routing? (Meaning that the power is routed to the track that the turnout is turned to.)


            With the Kato track, a siding has no juice until the switch is turned to the siding so the switch acts to isolate the siding or spur as a active or inactive block. A very nice feature of the Kato switches.

            The question was whether the MTL switch works the same way.

            And I have since figured out that the MTL switches don't have the same feature - at least, manual switches do not. I would need to use the standard methods of setting up siding blocks. Of which, I know there are several.

            Wally
            Lompoc, CA
          • Jim O'Connell
            Oh, Oh, Reynard, Now you done it. All the DCC guys will be arriving shortly. lol Cheers, Jim CCRR
            Message 5 of 29 , Jun 14, 2009
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              Oh, Oh, Reynard, Now you done it. All the DCC guys will be arriving shortly. lol Cheers, Jim CCRR
            • Reynard Wellman
              Hi Wally, The power is connected all the time no matter which way the turnouts are thrown with the MTL roadbed equipment. One must use insulated rail-joiners
              Message 6 of 29 , Jun 14, 2009
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                Hi Wally,

                The power is connected all the time no matter which
                way the turnouts are thrown with the MTL roadbed equipment.
                One must use insulated rail-joiners (plastic) made by Atlas
                and thus use block wiring to run trains at separate speeds
                and directions on adjoining tracks. It's not that hard.
                This has been the standard for model railroading since
                the early days.

                The Kato stuff is very clever but of no use to me, because
                I like to insulate the sidings, wiring them separately to a
                toggle switch or even to a different power supply for
                operating other independent trains. One has to keep
                up with which way the power is flowing by the use
                of North/South and East/West arrows to make smooth
                operations.

                best regardZ,
                Reynard
                http://www.micronart.com
                On Jun 14, 2009, at 2:48 PM, wallywaldau wrote:

                >
                >
                >
                > > Just to clarify, are you asking if the turnouts are power
                > routing? (Meaning that the power is routed to the track that the
                > turnout is turned to.)
                >
                > With the Kato track, a siding has no juice until the switch is
                > turned to the siding so the switch acts to isolate the siding or
                > spur as a active or inactive block. A very nice feature of the Kato
                > switches.
                >
                > The question was whether the MTL switch works the same way.
                >
                > And I have since figured out that the MTL switches don't have the
                > same feature - at least, manual switches do not. I would need to
                > use the standard methods of setting up siding blocks. Of which, I
                > know there are several.
                >
                > Wally
                > Lompoc, CA
                >
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Reynard Wellman
                Hi Jim, I don t care if they chide me for staying analog with the power to my locos. Sure I ve got digital TV. It s nice. And digital might be great for some
                Message 7 of 29 , Jun 14, 2009
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                  Hi Jim,

                  I don't care if they chide me for staying analog with
                  the power to my locos. Sure I've got digital TV.
                  It's nice. And digital might be great for some locos but
                  not all of them.

                  Anyway, we've got bigger problems in Z scale. The biggest
                  I've experience is the constant derailment of single-
                  axle pilot wheels on all brands of steam locomotives
                  like the Mogul, the Mikado and the Cab Forward.
                  These things are so light that the slightest whiff of
                  air derails them. They are constantly derailing in the
                  new MTL turnouts and are not much better with
                  the Marklin ones. You might as well build a layout
                  without any turnouts at all.

                  For the future, any manufacturer of Z scale steam
                  locomotives should solve this problem before loading us
                  up with expensive non-performing locomotives.

                  I would suggest that these evil single-axle pilot wheels,
                  whether in the rear or at the front, be spring
                  loaded so that they will stay on the track. Or make
                  the entire bogie out of tungsten or gold so that it
                  might have enough grams to keep from fluttering
                  off the track like a moth. Third choice is to give up
                  on Z steam engines altogether (especially ones that
                  show any hint of a single axle pilot wheel)
                  and go all diesel, all digital. Not likely, as they just
                  don't excite me.

                  best regardZ,
                  Reynard
                  On Jun 14, 2009, at 6:10 PM, Jim O'Connell wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Oh, Oh, Reynard, Now you done it. All the DCC guys will be arriving
                  > shortly. lol Cheers, Jim CCRR
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Alan Cox
                  ... The Kato stuff is N gauge (and HO) and the N gauge ones actually let you switch them into either mode. I believe the only power switching turnouts in Z
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jun 15, 2009
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                    > The Kato stuff is very clever but of no use to me, because
                    > I like to insulate the sidings, wiring them separately to a
                    > toggle switch or even to a different power supply for

                    The Kato stuff is N gauge (and HO) and the N gauge ones actually let you
                    switch them into either mode.

                    I believe the only power switching turnouts in Z scale are the Wright
                    turnouts.

                    Alan
                  • viktor_kovacs
                    ... This is the case for me too, because most of my locos are still too small for any usable decoder. (br89-s for example) Most of my engies are tank steamers
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jun 15, 2009
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                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Reynard Wellman <micron@...> wrote:
                      > Hi Jim,
                      > I don't care if they chide me for staying analog with
                      > the power to my locos. Sure I've got digital TV.
                      > It's nice. And digital might be great for some locos but
                      > not all of them.

                      This is the case for me too, because most of my locos are
                      still too small for any usable decoder. (br89-s for example)
                      Most of my engies are tank steamers and milling them out
                      for a decoder would make them useless for pulling a bigger
                      train and I really don't have the heart to modify them
                      so severly.

                      > Anyway, we've got bigger problems in Z scale. The biggest
                      > I've experience is the constant derailment of single-
                      > axle pilot wheels on all brands of steam locomotives
                      > like the Mogul, the Mikado and the Cab Forward.
                      > These things are so light that the slightest whiff of
                      > air derails them. They are constantly derailing in the
                      > new MTL turnouts and are not much better with
                      > the Marklin ones. You might as well build a layout
                      > without any turnouts at all.

                      This was a normal problem with 1:1 locos too. Originally
                      the new york central S motors had single axle pilots,
                      but after a serious derailment 2 axle pilot bogies were
                      fitted on them. (without telling it to the original
                      designer)

                      The main reason for derailments is usually too high
                      speed or bad turnouts. I have many tank locos with single
                      axle pilots and they run just fine. They are maerklin
                      locos with the cookie cutter wheel flanges and I use
                      maerklin turnouts. The lightest pilot is just a piece
                      of aluminium with a wheel in it and it's loosly fixed
                      with a single screw, but it can only be derailed by
                      forcibly cutting a switch at a high speed.

                      > For the future, any manufacturer of Z scale steam
                      > locomotives should solve this problem before loading us
                      > up with expensive non-performing locomotives.
                      >
                      > I would suggest that these evil single-axle pilot wheels,
                      > whether in the rear or at the front, be spring
                      > loaded so that they will stay on the track. Or make
                      > the entire bogie out of tungsten or gold so that it
                      > might have enough grams to keep from fluttering
                      > off the track like a moth. Third choice is to give up
                      > on Z steam engines altogether (especially ones that
                      > show any hint of a single axle pilot wheel)
                      > and go all diesel, all digital. Not likely, as they just
                      > don't excite me.

                      No need to do that. The only things required are deep
                      flanges, a pad on the main frame to push the pilot down
                      and switches with smooth inner sides, so the pilot
                      couldn't ride up on the tips of the point blades.

                      And one remark about power routing turnouts: They can
                      be nice, but they are useless as soon as someone installs
                      a switch with the trailing end towards the mainline,
                      which was a fairly common configuration on european
                      railroads. The best thing is to isolate both rails
                      and use double pole triple throw swiches (or something
                      similar) to select a cab. This even allows mixed analog
                      and digital operation with an analog and a digital
                      throttle.

                      best wishes: Viktor
                    • Reynard Wellman
                      Hi Alan, You may be right. It s been a while since I fooled around with my Kato switches because for the past decade I ve been so intensely working with my Z
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jun 15, 2009
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                        Hi Alan,

                        You may be right. It's been a while since I fooled around
                        with my Kato switches because for the past decade
                        I've been so intensely working with my Z equipment.

                        Thanks for the clarification.

                        Reynard


                        On Jun 15, 2009, at 1:49 AM, Alan Cox wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > > The Kato stuff is very clever but of no use to me, because
                        > > I like to insulate the sidings, wiring them separately to a
                        > > toggle switch or even to a different power supply for
                        >
                        > The Kato stuff is N gauge (and HO) and the N gauge ones actually
                        > let you
                        > switch them into either mode.
                        >
                        > I believe the only power switching turnouts in Z scale are the Wright
                        > turnouts.
                        >
                        > Alan
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Jim O'Connell
                        Reynard, I just posted a photo of a fix for bouncy front wheels. Check out the photo above by clicking on New Photos. You will see a small piece of lead
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jun 15, 2009
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                          Reynard, I just posted a photo of a fix for bouncy front wheels. Check out the photo above by clicking on New Photos. You will see a small piece of lead affixed to the top of the wheel assembly. I've done this on all my steamers and it makes a world of difference. This lead with stick on tape is available and golf shops and comes in 1/4 oz./ 7gr. ingots. I use it to weight my rolling stock as well. Plus, since it comes with it's own self-stick backing it can be moved around if need be. Cheers, Jim CCRR
                        • Garth Hamilton
                          To create power routing switches for z-scale you can use the Micro Trains Micro Track switches either manual or remote as internally they are the same. THe
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jun 15, 2009
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                            To create power routing switches for z-scale you can use the Micro Trains Micro Track switches either manual or remote as internally they are the same. THe only difference is the motor on the switch.

                            The page link below shows how to modify the switches so your main line is powered all the way around regardless of the switch position, while isolating the siding until such time as the switch is positioned to allow a train access to the siding. There is a switch incorporated into the switch mechanism to switch the power to the frog rail so the switch is safe to use with DCC. This page also shows to isolate either the curved or straight or both routes through the switch. Using these techniques it is possible to build a layout without any block wiring and I have also shown the mod needed to connect a cross track between the two tracks of a two track main so that you can run the two mains in opposite directions from separate power packs. You do need to know a bit about soldering as the solder joints need to be neat and small so the cover plate can be put back on after making the modifications. If the cover plate does not sit flat the switch will cause problems on the layout. I also show how to notch bottom plate to use a different below table switch machine of your choice.

                            <http://www.nn3.ca/main/main-american-zj-gauge-p5.htm>

                            regards
                            Garth


                            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "wallywaldau" <wallywaldau@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > > Just to clarify, are you asking if the turnouts are power routing? (Meaning that the power is routed to the track that the turnout is turned to.)
                            >
                            >
                            > With the Kato track, a siding has no juice until the switch is turned to the siding so the switch acts to isolate the siding or spur as a active or inactive block. A very nice feature of the Kato switches.
                            >
                            > The question was whether the MTL switch works the same way.
                            >
                            > And I have since figured out that the MTL switches don't have the same feature - at least, manual switches do not. I would need to use the standard methods of setting up siding blocks. Of which, I know there are several.
                            >
                            > Wally
                            > Lompoc, CA
                            >
                          • Garth Hamilton
                            I think I need to make a service call. Open the back to back on your pilot wheels and install a very small rare earth magnet under the truck on the frame.
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jun 15, 2009
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                              I think I need to make a service call. Open the back to back on your pilot wheels and install a very small rare earth magnet under the truck on the frame. These magnets can be found in various plates as small as the hole in a 3 ring binder piece of paper.

                              I use switches from Micro Trains, hand laid switches code 40 and 55, as well as those from England and I have no problem with all of these makes after a tune up on the pilot wheels. On some of the older Micro Trains Switches I have had to file the top corner of the points to avoid a blunt edge which some of the fine flanges just love to climb instead of sliding past them and this slight mod helps considerably.

                              On my home layout I am steam Nn3 95% with some 15 steam engines so I would really get frustrated if this were a constant problem that could not be resolved. I also have an additional 6 steamers in Z running on the same track. I have 23 switches, 8 on the double track main which run around a 2 foot wide shelf down a 12 foot wall, on a three foot shelf across the 8 foot end wall and back 8 foot on the other side of the room on a 3 foot shelf. So 42 feet of double track main in this space.


                              cheers Garth


                              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Reynard Wellman <micron@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Jim,
                              >
                              > I don't care if they chide me for staying analog with
                              > the power to my locos. Sure I've got digital TV.
                              > It's nice. And digital might be great for some locos but
                              > not all of them.
                              >
                              > Anyway, we've got bigger problems in Z scale. The biggest
                              > I've experience is the constant derailment of single-
                              > axle pilot wheels on all brands of steam locomotives
                              > like the Mogul, the Mikado and the Cab Forward.
                              > These things are so light that the slightest whiff of
                              > air derails them. They are constantly derailing in the
                              > new MTL turnouts and are not much better with
                              > the Marklin ones. You might as well build a layout
                              > without any turnouts at all.
                              >
                              > For the future, any manufacturer of Z scale steam
                              > locomotives should solve this problem before loading us
                              > up with expensive non-performing locomotives.
                              >
                              > I would suggest that these evil single-axle pilot wheels,
                              > whether in the rear or at the front, be spring
                              > loaded so that they will stay on the track. Or make
                              > the entire bogie out of tungsten or gold so that it
                              > might have enough grams to keep from fluttering
                              > off the track like a moth. Third choice is to give up
                              > on Z steam engines altogether (especially ones that
                              > show any hint of a single axle pilot wheel)
                              > and go all diesel, all digital. Not likely, as they just
                              > don't excite me.
                              >
                              > best regardZ,
                              > Reynard
                              > On Jun 14, 2009, at 6:10 PM, Jim O'Connell wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Oh, Oh, Reynard, Now you done it. All the DCC guys will be arriving
                              > > shortly. lol Cheers, Jim CCRR
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Reynard Wellman
                              Hi Jim, I agree and I have already done this for the Mogul and the Mikado. Moderate improvement - but not a real solution. What my rant was about is; it is up
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jun 15, 2009
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                                Hi Jim,

                                I agree and I have already done this for the Mogul and the Mikado.
                                Moderate improvement - but not a real solution.
                                What my rant was about is; it is up to the manufacturers
                                to fix this problem before these trains go to market.
                                Why should we have to fool around with "Golf-Works" products
                                when the makers of our Z trains should be the ones to
                                contact them, purchase the lead or tungsten and then incorporate the
                                little weights into the design? Adding these bits and pieces to
                                these trains before we get them is their job.

                                Cheers and warm regardZ,

                                Reynard
                                On Jun 15, 2009, at 8:38 AM, Jim O'Connell wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > Reynard, I just posted a photo of a fix for bouncy front wheels.
                                > Check out the photo above by clicking on New Photos. You will see a
                                > small piece of lead affixed to the top of the wheel assembly. I've
                                > done this on all my steamers and it makes a world of difference.
                                > This lead with stick on tape is available and golf shops and comes
                                > in 1/4 oz./ 7gr. ingots. I use it to weight my rolling stock as
                                > well. Plus, since it comes with it's own self-stick backing it can
                                > be moved around if need be. Cheers, Jim CCRR
                                >
                                >
                                >



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Loren
                                Reynard, In other words......... let the maker of the item be responsible for a good product all the way around .........wow, what a novel idea !! I wonder
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jun 15, 2009
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                                  Reynard,
                                  In other words........."let the maker of the item be responsible for a good
                                  product all the way around".........wow, what a novel idea !! I wonder how
                                  come more folks can't grasp that concept? Works in my world.

                                  Loren

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Reynard Wellman" <micron@...>
                                  To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:09 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: MTL Z-trak


                                  > Hi Jim,
                                  >
                                  > I agree and I have already done this for the Mogul and the Mikado.
                                  > Moderate improvement - but not a real solution.
                                  > What my rant was about is; it is up to the manufacturers
                                  > to fix this problem before these trains go to market.
                                  > Why should we have to fool around with "Golf-Works" products
                                  > when the makers of our Z trains should be the ones to
                                  > contact them, purchase the lead or tungsten and then incorporate the
                                  > little weights into the design? Adding these bits and pieces to
                                  > these trains before we get them is their job.
                                  >
                                  > Cheers and warm regardZ,
                                  >
                                  > Reynard
                                • Garth Hamilton
                                  Victor; Using the Micro Trains turnouts this is very much a possibility. If you use one modified turnout to isolate the siding from the main and then place the
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jun 15, 2009
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                                    Victor;

                                    Using the Micro Trains turnouts this is very much a possibility. If you use one modified turnout to isolate the siding from the main and then place the other switch unmodified with the trailing leg towards the isolated main line switch. Both legs are powered as long as the switch from the main is open to the siding. This is the beauty of the Micro Trains Switches they can be modified for almost any configuration you want or left unmodified. You can even have the second siding isolated until the switch is turned to it. If you want a diagram I can show it to you.

                                    regards
                                    Garth

                                    --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "viktor_kovacs" <viktor_kovacs@...> wrote:

                                    >
                                    > And one remark about power routing turnouts: They can
                                    > be nice, but they are useless as soon as someone installs
                                    > a switch with the trailing end towards the mainline,
                                    > which was a fairly common configuration on european
                                    > railroads. The best thing is to isolate both rails
                                    > and use double pole triple throw swiches (or something
                                    > similar) to select a cab. This even allows mixed analog
                                    > and digital operation with an analog and a digital
                                    > throttle.
                                    >
                                    > best wishes: Viktor
                                    >
                                  • Alan Cox
                                    ... Not for the 99.9% thing though 8) It always changes with time - Märklin stuff used to be reliable and near indestructible - once upon a time. Pray MTL
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jun 15, 2009
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                                      > achieve an excellent level of quality 99.9% of the time!
                                      > Dyson vacuum cleaners sound familiar to you?

                                      Not for the 99.9% thing though 8)

                                      It always changes with time - Märklin stuff used to be reliable and near
                                      indestructible - once upon a time. Pray MTL manage to keep the quality up.

                                      Alan
                                    • Reynard Wellman
                                      Hi Loren, Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to get across. You said it better. One of the best examples of an excellent product right out the door are
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jun 15, 2009
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                                        Hi Loren,

                                        Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to get across.
                                        You said it better. One of the best examples of an
                                        excellent product right out the door are MTL's
                                        GP35s & GP7s. Absolutely perfect runners even
                                        on my weirdest test tracks. Of course these gems are
                                        not as mechanically interesting as the steamers but they
                                        do come with some very lively paint jobs and road names.

                                        Why should a customer have to spend extra time
                                        and money finding some esoteric supplier just to make
                                        a product behave the way it was suppose to behave in
                                        the first place?

                                        I know it's a novel idea but some businesses do spend a lot of
                                        their profits on research and development and in end do
                                        achieve an excellent level of quality 99.9% of the time!
                                        Dyson vacuum cleaners sound familiar to you?

                                        warm regardZ,
                                        Reynard
                                        http://www.micronart.com
                                        On Jun 15, 2009, at 1:17 PM, Loren wrote:

                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Reynard,
                                        > In other words........."let the maker of the item be responsible
                                        > for a good
                                        > product all the way around".........wow, what a novel idea !! I
                                        > wonder how
                                        > come more folks can't grasp that concept? Works in my world.
                                        >
                                        > Loren
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "Reynard Wellman" <micron@...>
                                        > To: <z_scale@>
                                        > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:09 PM
                                        > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: MTL Z-trak
                                        >
                                        > > Hi Jim,
                                        > >
                                        > > I agree and I have already done this for the Mogul and the Mikado.
                                        > > Moderate improvement - but not a real solution.
                                        > > What my rant was about is; it is up to the manufacturers
                                        > > to fix this problem before these trains go to market.
                                        > > Why should we have to fool around with "Golf-Works" products
                                        > > when the makers of our Z trains should be the ones to
                                        > > contact them, purchase the lead or tungsten and then incorporate the
                                        > > little weights into the design? Adding these bits and pieces to
                                        > > these trains before we get them is their job.
                                        > >
                                        > > Cheers and warm regardZ,
                                        > >
                                        > > Reynard
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Jim O'Connell
                                        Garth, Victor and I would like so see a diagram please! Thanks, Jim CCRR
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jun 15, 2009
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                                          Garth, Victor and I would like so see a diagram please! Thanks, Jim CCRR

                                          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hamilton" <garth.a.hamilton@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Victor;
                                          >
                                          > Using the Micro Trains turnouts this is very much a possibility. If you use one modified turnout to isolate the siding from the main and then place the other switch unmodified with the trailing leg towards the isolated main line switch. Both legs are powered as long as the switch from the main is open to the siding. This is the beauty of the Micro Trains Switches they can be modified for almost any configuration you want or left unmodified. You can even have the second siding isolated until the switch is turned to it. If you want a diagram I can show it to you.
                                          >
                                          > regards
                                          > Garth
                                          >
                                          > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "viktor_kovacs" <viktor_kovacs@> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > > And one remark about power routing turnouts: They can
                                          > > be nice, but they are useless as soon as someone installs
                                          > > a switch with the trailing end towards the mainline,
                                          > > which was a fairly common configuration on european
                                          > > railroads. The best thing is to isolate both rails
                                          > > and use double pole triple throw swiches (or something
                                          > > similar) to select a cab. This even allows mixed analog
                                          > > and digital operation with an analog and a digital
                                          > > throttle.
                                          > >
                                          > > best wishes: Viktor
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • dpstripe@aol.com
                                          Garth, I have found them smaller than 1/8 . But one question. Do you use decoupling magnets under your track, and if so, how do these rare earth weights
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jun 15, 2009
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                                            Garth,
                                            I have found them smaller than 1/8". But one question. Do you use
                                            decoupling magnets under your track, and if so, how do these rare earth "weights"
                                            respond? I have several Mikados that don't really have a problem with the
                                            leading trucks, at least nothing common enough to call a problem. But, I do
                                            have one little 2-6-0 with a leading truck that will jump the track if you
                                            look at it funny (so, I don't look at it funny). I have tried gluing weights
                                            to it, adding springs..., but they all seem to fall off. I have Tungsten
                                            powder and white glue all ready to go, but the magnet sounds much easier.
                                            Dan S.


                                            In a message dated 6/15/2009 1:49:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                            garth.a.hamilton@... writes:

                                            I think I need to make a service call. Open the back to back on your pilot
                                            wheels and install a very small rare earth magnet under the truck on the
                                            frame. These magnets can be found in various plates as small as the hole in
                                            a 3 ring binder piece of paper.


                                            **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Reynard Wellman
                                            Hi Dan, If you have some thick brass (1/16 ) strip around you can cut out a shape to fit, then epoxy it to the pilot assembly. This works - it assures no
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jun 16, 2009
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hi Dan,
                                              If you have some thick brass (1/16") strip
                                              around you can cut out a shape to fit, then
                                              epoxy it to the pilot assembly. This works -
                                              it assures no magnetic interference
                                              and no inhalation of the highly toxic
                                              tungsten powder.

                                              As to which of the REM elements folks are
                                              referring to in these discussions, I am unsure of.
                                              Some will cost more than gold or platinum
                                              and some are highly radioactive (Plutonium).
                                              So rare earth might be a little too extreme for
                                              a cost effective Rx ;>)

                                              best regardZ,
                                              Reynard
                                              http://www.micronart.com


                                              On Jun 15, 2009, at 5:20 PM, dpstripe@... wrote:

                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Garth,
                                              > I have found them smaller than 1/8". But one question. Do you use
                                              > decoupling magnets under your track, and if so, how do these rare
                                              > earth "weights"
                                              > respond? I have several Mikados that don't really have a problem
                                              > with the
                                              > leading trucks, at least nothing common enough to call a problem.
                                              > But, I do
                                              > have one little 2-6-0 with a leading truck that will jump the track
                                              > if you
                                              > look at it funny (so, I don't look at it funny). I have tried
                                              > gluing weights
                                              > to it, adding springs..., but they all seem to fall off. I have
                                              > Tungsten
                                              > powder and white glue all ready to go, but the magnet sounds much
                                              > easier.
                                              > Dan S.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > In a message dated 6/15/2009 1:49:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                              > garth.a.hamilton@... writes:
                                              >
                                              > I think I need to make a service call. Open the back to back on
                                              > your pilot
                                              > wheels and install a very small rare earth magnet under the truck
                                              > on the
                                              > frame. These magnets can be found in various plates as small as the
                                              > hole in
                                              > a 3 ring binder piece of paper.
                                              >
                                              > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2
                                              > Easy
                                              > Steps!
                                              > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322979x1201367215/aol?
                                              > redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?
                                              > sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun
                                              > eExcfooterNO62)
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >



                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • vincentgoudreault
                                              ... If I can jump in with a bit of chemical precisions, tungsten is not considerd highly toxic. It is not totally without effect, but to put things in
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jun 16, 2009
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Reynard Wellman <micron@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hi Dan,
                                                > If you have some thick brass (1/16") strip
                                                > around you can cut out a shape to fit, then
                                                > epoxy it to the pilot assembly. This works -
                                                > it assures no magnetic interference
                                                > and no inhalation of the highly toxic
                                                > tungsten powder.

                                                If I can jump in with a bit of chemical precisions, tungsten is not considerd highly toxic. It is not totally without effect, but to put things in perspective, the lethal dose is estimated at more than 500 mg per kg, i.e. a healthy average person would have to absorb more than one ounce, which calls either for deliberate action or gross neglect. With such level, it is far less toxic than lead.

                                                Evidently, it is not to be handled carelessly, and small doses may still have some less than desirable effects. But again, not considered "highly" toxic.


                                                >
                                                > As to which of the REM elements folks are
                                                > referring to in these discussions, I am unsure of.
                                                > Some will cost more than gold or platinum
                                                > and some are highly radioactive (Plutonium).
                                                > So rare earth might be a little too extreme for
                                                > a cost effective Rx ;>)

                                                Rare earths are those elements between Lanthanum (atomic number 57) and Lutehium (atomic number 71), only one of which (Promethium) existing only as radio-active isotopes.
                                                The Actinoids (which include Uranium and Plutonium; i.e. elements with atomic number bewteen 85 and 103) are sometimes referred as "rare earth" as well, but in usual parlance, when someone refers to "rare earth metal" oand especially "rare eath magnet", one is to understand that this is about lighter, non-radiocative elements and those Neodymium alloys magnets. And in the current context, those are not used for their density, but for the capacity they would have to magnetically "weight down" the object that carries it when going above an iron (or other suitable composition) plate or part hidden under the track.


                                                CBVG
                                              • Garth Hamilton
                                                Dan; I have no under track magnets on the main so not sure how they would react. The magnets for uncoupling are oriented cross track horizontally and these
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jun 16, 2009
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Dan;

                                                  I have no under track magnets on the main so not sure how they would react. The magnets for uncoupling are oriented cross track horizontally and these magnets are oriented vertically so not sure how that would work.

                                                  cheers
                                                  Garth

                                                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, dpstripe@... wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Garth,
                                                  > I have found them smaller than 1/8". But one question. Do you use
                                                  > decoupling magnets under your track, and if so, how do these rare earth "weights"
                                                  > respond? I have several Mikados that don't really have a problem with the
                                                  > leading trucks, at least nothing common enough to call a problem. But, I do
                                                  > have one little 2-6-0 with a leading truck that will jump the track if you
                                                  > look at it funny (so, I don't look at it funny). I have tried gluing weights
                                                  > to it, adding springs..., but they all seem to fall off. I have Tungsten
                                                  > powder and white glue all ready to go, but the magnet sounds much easier.
                                                  > Dan S.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > In a message dated 6/15/2009 1:49:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                  > garth.a.hamilton@... writes:
                                                  >
                                                  > I think I need to make a service call. Open the back to back on your pilot
                                                  > wheels and install a very small rare earth magnet under the truck on the
                                                  > frame. These magnets can be found in various plates as small as the hole in
                                                  > a 3 ring binder piece of paper.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
                                                  > Steps!
                                                  > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322979x1201367215/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun
                                                  > eExcfooterNO62)
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                • Garth Hamilton
                                                  Jim; Solution to problem posed by Victor uploaded to photo s section under Garth s Stuff and it is the last pic in the folder. Hope you can make it out. If
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jun 16, 2009
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Jim;

                                                    Solution to problem posed by Victor uploaded to photo's section under Garth's Stuff and it is the last pic in the folder.

                                                    Hope you can make it out. If this photo is not big enough look in files for a folder Garth's Stuff and I will place photo there also.

                                                    cheers
                                                    Garth


                                                    --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Jim O'Connell" <jimo.crcmnvgtr@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Garth, Victor and I would like so see a diagram please! Thanks, Jim CCRR
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hamilton" <garth.a.hamilton@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Victor;
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Using the Micro Trains turnouts this is very much a possibility. If you use one modified turnout to isolate the siding from the main and then place the other switch unmodified with the trailing leg towards the isolated main line switch. Both legs are powered as long as the switch from the main is open to the siding. This is the beauty of the Micro Trains Switches they can be modified for almost any configuration you want or left unmodified. You can even have the second siding isolated until the switch is turned to it. If you want a diagram I can show it to you.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > regards
                                                    > > Garth
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "viktor_kovacs" <viktor_kovacs@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > And one remark about power routing turnouts: They can
                                                    > > > be nice, but they are useless as soon as someone installs
                                                    > > > a switch with the trailing end towards the mainline,
                                                    > > > which was a fairly common configuration on european
                                                    > > > railroads. The best thing is to isolate both rails
                                                    > > > and use double pole triple throw swiches (or something
                                                    > > > similar) to select a cab. This even allows mixed analog
                                                    > > > and digital operation with an analog and a digital
                                                    > > > throttle.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > best wishes: Viktor
                                                    > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                  • dpstripe@aol.com
                                                    Reynard, I think the reason Garth used the magnet was simply that it would hold itself in place, and could be removed easily, if desired. I don t think it was
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jun 16, 2009
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                                                      Reynard,
                                                      I think the reason Garth used the magnet was simply that it would hold
                                                      itself in place, and could be removed easily, if desired. I don't think it was
                                                      for optimum weight.
                                                      Dan S.


                                                      In a message dated 6/16/2009 8:36:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                      micron@... writes:

                                                      Besides there is not that much weight advantage between a
                                                      heavy slug of brass or iron and some of these exotics
                                                      anyway.

                                                      best regardZ,
                                                      Reynard


                                                      **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
                                                      Steps!
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                                                      eExcfooterNO62)


                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • Reynard Wellman
                                                      Hi Vincent You can jump in anytime. But I re-read the warning label on my jar of tungsten and will seek immediate medical attention if I inadvertently inhale
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Jun 16, 2009
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Hi Vincent

                                                        You can jump in anytime. But I re-read the
                                                        warning label on my jar of tungsten and will
                                                        seek immediate medical attention if I inadvertently
                                                        inhale any of it. They even say to wear a respirator
                                                        and goggles when handling it. Perhaps you have
                                                        found a milder grade. Anyway, even if they are
                                                        posting this warning only for legal purposes,
                                                        why take a chance?

                                                        Yeah, rare-earth metals are a mixed bag of all
                                                        sorts of hard to find or extract (i.e. rare) minerals.
                                                        According to Wiki many such mining operations
                                                        are highly damaging to the environment. For
                                                        that reason alone I would prefer to avoid them.

                                                        Besides there is not that much weight advantage between a
                                                        heavy slug of brass or iron and some of these exotics
                                                        anyway.

                                                        best regardZ,
                                                        Reynard
                                                        On Jun 16, 2009, at 3:27 PM, vincentgoudreault wrote:

                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Reynard Wellman <micron@...> wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Hi Dan,
                                                        > > If you have some thick brass (1/16") strip
                                                        > > around you can cut out a shape to fit, then
                                                        > > epoxy it to the pilot assembly. This works -
                                                        > > it assures no magnetic interference
                                                        > > and no inhalation of the highly toxic
                                                        > > tungsten powder.
                                                        >
                                                        > If I can jump in with a bit of chemical precisions, tungsten is not
                                                        > considerd highly toxic. It is not totally without effect, but to
                                                        > put things in perspective, the lethal dose is estimated at more
                                                        > than 500 mg per kg, i.e. a healthy average person would have to
                                                        > absorb more than one ounce, which calls either for deliberate
                                                        > action or gross neglect. With such level, it is far less toxic than
                                                        > lead.
                                                        >
                                                        > Evidently, it is not to be handled carelessly, and small doses may
                                                        > still have some less than desirable effects. But again, not
                                                        > considered "highly" toxic.
                                                        >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > As to which of the REM elements folks are
                                                        > > referring to in these discussions, I am unsure of.
                                                        > > Some will cost more than gold or platinum
                                                        > > and some are highly radioactive (Plutonium).
                                                        > > So rare earth might be a little too extreme for
                                                        > > a cost effective Rx ;>)
                                                        >
                                                        > Rare earths are those elements between Lanthanum (atomic number 57)
                                                        > and Lutehium (atomic number 71), only one of which (Promethium)
                                                        > existing only as radio-active isotopes.
                                                        > The Actinoids (which include Uranium and Plutonium; i.e. elements
                                                        > with atomic number bewteen 85 and 103) are sometimes referred as
                                                        > "rare earth" as well, but in usual parlance, when someone refers to
                                                        > "rare earth metal" oand especially "rare eath magnet", one is to
                                                        > understand that this is about lighter, non-radiocative elements and
                                                        > those Neodymium alloys magnets. And in the current context, those
                                                        > are not used for their density, but for the capacity they would
                                                        > have to magnetically "weight down" the object that carries it when
                                                        > going above an iron (or other suitable composition) plate or part
                                                        > hidden under the track.
                                                        >
                                                        > CBVG
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >



                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • Reynard Wellman
                                                        Hi Dan, I m not against using REM magnets. But they won t stay on a brass or stainless steel locomotive pilot without some sort of adhesive. I weighed down my
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Jun 17, 2009
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          Hi Dan,
                                                          I'm not against using REM magnets. But they won't
                                                          stay on a brass or stainless steel locomotive pilot
                                                          without some sort of adhesive.

                                                          I weighed down my evanescent single-axle pilots with a piece
                                                          of brass epoxyed to them. That's all.

                                                          Someday I may even find a way to use my larder of
                                                          tungsten to help out my lighter locomotive performance.
                                                          But so far it is only these pilots which are proving to be
                                                          so nasty. I found it ridiculously difficult to mold a few gram
                                                          puffs of tungsten powder and Elmer's into a shape that
                                                          will fit on a tiny Z scale pilot. Not worth the trouble.

                                                          I've even used a dense chewing gum to weight these
                                                          pilots. It works and it's removable ! ;>)

                                                          I've enjoyed the drift of this conversation, even learned
                                                          some new things. But the bottom line is that I would
                                                          prefer that the makers of these steamers solve this problem
                                                          before shipping them out the door.

                                                          warm regardZ,
                                                          Reynard

                                                          On Jun 16, 2009, at 7:27 PM, dpstripe@... wrote:

                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Reynard,
                                                          > I think the reason Garth used the magnet was simply that it would hold
                                                          > itself in place, and could be removed easily, if desired. I don't
                                                          > think it was
                                                          > for optimum weight.
                                                          > Dan S.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > In a message dated 6/16/2009 8:36:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                          > micron@... writes:
                                                          >
                                                          > Besides there is not that much weight advantage between a
                                                          > heavy slug of brass or iron and some of these exotics
                                                          > anyway.
                                                          >
                                                          > best regardZ,
                                                          > Reynard
                                                          >
                                                          > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2
                                                          > Easy
                                                          > Steps!
                                                          > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823265x1201398681/aol?
                                                          > redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?
                                                          > sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun
                                                          > eExcfooterNO62)
                                                          >
                                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >



                                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        • Garth Hamilton
                                                          There are two parts to using the magnet. The weight and ease of attachment were the initial reason but I found there is some magnetic attraction to the rail
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Jun 17, 2009
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            There are two parts to using the magnet. The weight and ease of attachment were the initial reason but I found there is some magnetic attraction to the rail imparted to the bogie as well for a bit of added bonus.




                                                            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, dpstripe@... wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > Reynard,
                                                            > I think the reason Garth used the magnet was simply that it would hold
                                                            > itself in place, and could be removed easily, if desired. I don't think it was
                                                            > for optimum weight.
                                                            > Dan S.
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > In a message dated 6/16/2009 8:36:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                            > micron@... writes:
                                                            >
                                                            > Besides there is not that much weight advantage between a
                                                            > heavy slug of brass or iron and some of these exotics
                                                            > anyway.
                                                            >
                                                            > best regardZ,
                                                            > Reynard
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
                                                            > Steps!
                                                            > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823265x1201398681/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun
                                                            > eExcfooterNO62)
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                            >
                                                          • de Champeaux Dominique
                                                            ... I think Aspenmodels releases power routing turnouts as well. http://www.aspenmodels.com Dom
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Jun 20, 2009
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              >I believe the only power switching turnouts in Z scale are the Wright
                                                              >turnouts.
                                                              >
                                                              >Alan

                                                              I think Aspenmodels releases power routing turnouts as well.

                                                              http://www.aspenmodels.com

                                                              Dom
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