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Re: [Z_Scale] OT: dangerous subjects

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  • ztrack@aol.com
    ... Dom, No problem. I know this thread was not meant to be malicious. We all have to remember that this is an open forum. It is a community with a shared
    Message 1 of 16 , May 13, 2009
      In a message dated 5/12/09 2:59:07 PM, ddechamp71@... writes:


      >
      > OK, OK, Rob, please take it easy, I give up....
      > Sorry for the disturbance,
      > Dom
      >

      Dom,

      No problem. I know this thread was not meant to be malicious. We all have
      to remember that this is an open forum. It is a community with a shared
      interest in Z scale trains. We must always try and make sure we keep the forum
      open and welcoming. We definitely don't want to offend anyone. The last time
      the questionable term was used, no fewer than three members left. They citing
      specifically the use of the term as the reason for leaving. One even
      threatened legal action against the owners and moderators of this list. This was
      very unfortunate. We don't want anyone to leave, especially for such a reason
      as this.

      Reynard also pointed out one response to me and he has a good point. Many
      of us have very strong political views. Nothing can inflame a group of folks
      such as politics. So please leave these on the curbside.

      Again, I love the chatter, debate, discussions and sense of friendships and
      community we have. It creates a comfort level which can lead us to believe
      that we can say anything. But, many folks take issues very seriously and we
      don't want to hurt feelings or anger list members who are coming to this
      forum to help them get away from the real world.

      Rob

      Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
      6142 Northcliff Blvd.
      Dublin, OH 43016
      phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
      www.ztrack.com
      www.ztrackcenter.com
      Distributor American Z Line



      **************
      Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after
      instant savings!
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Alex
      Unbelievable... Alex
      Message 2 of 16 , May 13, 2009
        Unbelievable...

        Alex

        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, ztrack@... wrote:
        >
        > Dom,
        >
        > No problem. I know this thread was not meant to be malicious. We all have
        > to remember that this is an open forum. It is a community with a shared
        > interest in Z scale trains. We must always try and make sure we keep the forum
        > open and welcoming. We definitely don't want to offend anyone. The last time
        > the questionable term was used, no fewer than three members left. They citing
        > specifically the use of the term as the reason for leaving. One even
        > threatened legal action against the owners and moderators of this list. This was
        > very unfortunate. We don't want anyone to leave, especially for such a reason
        > as this.
      • Alex
        I just find so much of this politically correct cr@p ridiculous. When we were growing up as kids... we used to call each other a lot worse and still be
        Message 3 of 16 , May 13, 2009
          I just find so much of this "politically correct" cr@p ridiculous.
          When we were growing up as kids... we used to call each other a lot worse and still be friends.

          As time moves forward... I think we do NOT live in a better world. I often tell my 72-year-old Mother, that I wish I was her age... because, I know that would be 23 future years I would not have to live through and watch the values that this country was founded and built on deteriorate furthur.

          Moderate, ban, delete... whatever...

          Alex

          P.S. My comments are not meant to be personal against the moderators of this group.

          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" <butasama@...> wrote:
          >
          > Unbelievable...
          >
          > Alex
          >
          > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, ztrack@ wrote:
          > >
          > > Dom,
          > >
          > > No problem. I know this thread was not meant to be malicious. We all have
          > > to remember that this is an open forum. It is a community with a shared
          > > interest in Z scale trains. We must always try and make sure we keep the forum
          > > open and welcoming. We definitely don't want to offend anyone. The last time
          > > the questionable term was used, no fewer than three members left. They citing
          > > specifically the use of the term as the reason for leaving. One even
          > > threatened legal action against the owners and moderators of this list. This was
          > > very unfortunate. We don't want anyone to leave, especially for such a reason
          > > as this.
        • ztrack@aol.com
          Alex, I also am not a fan of political correctness. But as one of the moderators of this forum, I see the merits for avoiding such subjects. This is not about
          Message 4 of 16 , May 13, 2009
            Alex,

            I also am not a fan of political correctness. But as one of the moderators
            of this forum, I see the merits for avoiding such subjects. This is not
            about freedom of speech, or voicing an opinion. The fact is, this is not a
            political forum, or a forum established to debate civil liberties. It is simply a
            forum for Z scale model trains. We have members from all over the world. We
            must remember that we are a community of model train enthusiasts, composed
            of different races, nationalities, political views, genders, etc. We are all
            different, but with one common interest. Let's keep focussed on our
            interest.

            Rob



            Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
            6142 Northcliff Blvd.
            Dublin, OH 43016
            phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
            www.ztrack.com
            www.ztrackcenter.com
            Distributor American Z Line



            **************
            Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after
            instant savings!
            (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221972443x1201442012/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819441%3B36680237%3Bi)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Alan Cox
            ... 23 years ago you wouldn t have been able to post to this group, although you would have a tiny amount of this new Z scale stuff.. 23 years earlier I d have
            Message 5 of 16 , May 13, 2009
              > As time moves forward... I think we do NOT live in a better world. I often tell my 72-year-old Mother, that I wish I was her age... because, I know that would be 23 future years I would not have to live through and watch the values that this country was founded and built on deteriorate furthur.

              23 years ago you wouldn't have been able to post to this group, although
              you would have a tiny amount of this new Z scale stuff..

              23 years earlier I'd have been born to the world of nuclear war,
              austerity and crisis and not had a chance to go to university..

              Change and deterioration are sometimes rather hard to tell apart.

              23 years ago Britain was "People know their place", "Trust the
              establishment", "women on the news programs for their looks only", and
              only finally getting rid of signs on rented accomodation that said things
              like "No Irish"

              So pardon me for not thinking "deteriorate" is the whole story...
            • Loren
              Alex, Rob, et al.......I agree with all......PC stinks, but unfortunately there isn t much we can do about it these days. We can all agree to dislike certain
              Message 6 of 16 , May 13, 2009
                Alex, Rob, et al.......I agree with all......PC stinks, but unfortunately
                there isn't much we can do about it these days.

                We can all agree to dislike certain aspects of our world, but the truth
                remains we are all alike in certain areas.

                We all like to eat, drink, sleep when tired, pay the lowest prices we can,
                and above all else, we all like this weird little scale that is slowly, ever
                so slowly becoming a main stream hobby. This we can stand shoulder to
                shoulder on and defy the critics and nay sayers.

                So whether we are red, brown, yellow, black or white, or even green from
                envy or blue in the face from holding our breath for the next AZL and MTL
                release........... we do have our one common fault and for that none of us
                will ever apologize...........we love our Z scale.

                So world, "take this job and shove it" like the song says, but we're Z, hear
                us roar!!!

                Everyone have a great day and try ever so slightly not to tick off all the
                other scale model railroaders.....we can't help it they don't know any
                better. And that's a big WINK.

                Best to all,
                Loren

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <ztrack@...>
                To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 7:25 AM
                Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: OT: dangerous subjects


                > Alex,
                >
                > I also am not a fan of political correctness. But as one of the moderators
                > of this forum, I see the merits for avoiding such subjects. This is not
                > about freedom of speech, or voicing an opinion. The fact is, this is not a
                > political forum, or a forum established to debate civil liberties. It is
                > simply a
                > forum for Z scale model trains. We have members from all over the world.
                > We
                > must remember that we are a community of model train enthusiasts, composed
                > of different races, nationalities, political views, genders, etc. We are
                > all
                > different, but with one common interest. Let's keep focussed on our
                > interest.
                >
                > Rob
                >
                > Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
                > 6142 Northcliff Blvd.
                > Dublin, OH 43016
                > phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
                > www.ztrack.com
                > www.ztrackcenter.com
                > Distributor American Z Line
              • Uwe Liermann
                Hello Alex, ... I agree with you in both accounts! But there is a small, but important, difference in writing things in a mail, or doing so from person to
                Message 7 of 16 , May 13, 2009
                  Hello Alex,

                  > I just find so much of this "politically correct" cr@p ridiculous.
                  > When we were growing up as kids... we used to call each other a lot
                  > worse and still be friends.

                  I agree with you in both accounts!

                  But there is a small, but important, difference in writing things in a
                  mail, or doing so from person to person. When I played with my
                  friends, and we called each other names, we could see each other in
                  the eyes and knew how it was meant at the same moment when it was
                  said. Today a mail is written and send fast, and the other person
                  which we perhaps haven't seen in person even once can't see us while
                  we're typing away. And since a lot of us haven't meet we don't know
                  for sure what kind of person the other one really is, and what kind of
                  humor she or he has and tolerate. So the person can't see the twinkle
                  in our eyes while we use a certain phrase. Using smilies isn't the
                  perfect solution, even if it is helpful most of the times.

                  Today I'm often wondering about the way people write (not especially
                  on this list, here the average is much better as in some other places
                  I knew, but in an overall overview). Not only for the words they use,
                  but also for the grammar and the spelling they use. 23 years back
                  nobody would have wanted to get known by this way to write or speak.
                  (And probably at this moment I'm just making a fool out of myself
                  because of my grammar and spelling, but then I always can claim that
                  at this moment I'm not writing in my native language...)

                  > As time moves forward... I think we do NOT live in a better world.

                  And here I don't agree with you!

                  Sure, there are a lot of things that deteriorate as you wrote, but
                  there are also a lot of things that improved over time. I won't name
                  them all, but for this list and for getting back on our beloved topic
                  here, I would name Z-scale and the possibilitys of the Internet.
                  Z-scale improved a lot in the last years, and this wouldn't have
                  happened without the Internet in this time and amount. As imperfect
                  as the net is, how would we have learned about all those great artists
                  in our small scale, and about all the things that we can get from all
                  around the world. Imagine writing your E-Mails under the light of a
                  candle...

                  So let's get back at our workbenches, layouts and projects to have a
                  fun time. And sometimes also let's get back at the keyboard to share
                  those times and moments with each other, because:

                  A problem shared is a problem halved.
                  A joy shared is a joy doubled.

                  --
                  Happy GreetingZ
                  Uwe
                • Allan Wright
                  ... When we were growing up as kids... we used to call each other a lot worse and still be friends. As time moves forward... I think we do NOT live in a better
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 13, 2009
                    >> I just find so much of this "politically correct" cr@p ridiculous.
                    When we were growing up as kids... we used to call each other a lot worse
                    and still be friends.
                    As time moves forward... I think we do NOT live in a better world. I often
                    tell my 72-year-old Mother, that I wish I was her age... because, I know
                    that would be 23 future years I would not have to live through and watch the
                    values that this country was founded and built on deteriorate furthur.
                    Moderate, ban, delete... whatever...
                    Alex
                    P.S. My comments are not meant to be personal against the moderators of this
                    group.<<

                    The trouble is, Alex, that is very easy to offend someone who wants to be
                    offended! Often there's money in it too! A soon as you open your mouth
                    someone somewhere can and possibly will be offended. Political correctness
                    offends me and now it has got into the peaceful hobby I love. Whatever
                    happened to the Coke ad - 'I'd like to teach the world to sing.and sing in
                    harmony. ' ?

                    Peace and happiness to all of you,

                    Allan, (UK)








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Chris
                    Hi Allan, (UK). ... Well said Allan. I have to admit that I hate political correctness. Recently there was an attempt to rename Christmas as the Winter
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 13, 2009
                      Hi Allan, (UK).

                      2009/5/13 Allan Wright <allan@...>:
                      > The trouble is, Alex, that is very easy to offend someone who wants to be
                      > offended! Often there's money in it too! A soon as you open your mouth
                      > someone somewhere can and possibly will be offended. Political correctness
                      > offends me and now it has got into the peaceful hobby I love. Whatever
                      > happened to the Coke ad - 'I'd like to teach the world to sing.and sing in
                      > harmony. ' ?

                      Well said Allan.

                      I have to admit that I hate political correctness. Recently there was
                      an attempt to rename Christmas as the Winter Festival (or some such)
                      so that it would not offend our Muslim (and other religions)
                      population. One of the Muslim community's leaders was on the radio
                      being interviewed about it and said words to the effect that calling
                      it the Winter Festival was an insult to the Muslim community as it
                      implied that they could not bare having a Christian Festival in a
                      (nominally) Christian country named after Christ!

                      My feeling is that PC just panders to those who +think+ that they are
                      protecting those who they +think+ would be hurt but, who, in reality,
                      could not care less. I was editor of quarterly newsletters for some 16
                      years and at no time was my total avoidance of words ending in
                      '-person' instead of '-man', and words ending in '-ess', challenged.
                      Maybe I just had very tolerant readers.

                      > Peace and happiness to all of you,

                      Amen.

                      With best wishes from a sunny Skye,
                      Chris (UK).


                      --
                      Chris Manvell
                      http://trains.manvell.org.uk, http://family.manvell.org.uk,
                      http://skye.manvell.org.uk, http://bahai-faith.manvell.org.uk.
                    • David Epling
                      I have read about this Locomotive on this list and in the issue of ZTrack that arrived today. Who makes it and how can I get one? Thanks David Epling Museum
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 13, 2009
                        I have read about this Locomotive on this list and in the issue of ZTrack
                        that arrived today. Who makes it and how can I get one?

                        Thanks

                        David Epling
                        Museum Manager
                        Western Pacific Railroad Museum 501(c)3
                        Portola, California
                        http://www.wplives.org
                        w: 530-832-4131
                        c: 209-915-5169
                      • David K. Smith
                        The SW1 is a craftsman kit from Zthek: http://www.zthek.com/id99.htm It runs on a modified Marklin 88051 mechanism, which is not included in the kit. Sometimes
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 13, 2009
                          The SW1 is a craftsman kit from Zthek: http://www.zthek.com/id99.htm

                          It runs on a modified Marklin 88051 mechanism, which is not included in the kit.

                          Sometimes you can order them pre-built.

                          --David

                          http://jamesriverbranch.net/
                          http://1-220.blogspot.com/

                          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "David Epling" <cct24@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I have read about this Locomotive on this list and in the issue of ZTrack
                          > that arrived today. Who makes it and how can I get one?
                          >
                          > Thanks
                          >
                          > David Epling
                          > Museum Manager
                          > Western Pacific Railroad Museum 501(c)3
                          > Portola, California
                          > http://www.wplives.org
                          > w: 530-832-4131
                          > c: 209-915-5169
                          >
                        • dpstripe@aol.com
                          This is a conversion kit available from Zthek. It converts the Marklin 0-6-0 tank loc chassis into a SW1. It does require quite a bit of chassis modification,
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 13, 2009
                            This is a conversion kit available from Zthek. It converts the Marklin
                            0-6-0 tank loc chassis into a SW1. It does require quite a bit of chassis
                            modification, but it is a very nice kit.

                            _http://www.zthek.com/_ (http://www.zthek.com/)

                            Dan S.


                            In a message dated 5/13/2009 4:19:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                            cct24@... writes:

                            I have read about this Locomotive on this list and in the issue of ZTrack
                            that arrived today. Who makes it and how can I get one?

                            Thanks

                            David Epling
                            Museum Manager
                            Western Pacific Railroad Museum 501(c)3
                            Portola, California
                            http://www.wplives.org
                            w: 530-832-4131
                            c: 209-915-5169



                            ------------------------------------

                            Z-scale: minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
                            Yahoo! Groups Links





                            **************Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after
                            instant savings!
                            (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221972443x1201442012/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819441%3B36680237%3Bi)


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • David Epling
                            Thanks Dan and David...gotta think this one over. It would look great as WP 501 ... From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 13, 2009
                              Thanks Dan and David...gotta think this one over. It would look great as WP
                              501

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: <dpstripe@...>
                              To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:27 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] SW1


                              This is a conversion kit available from Zthek. It converts the Marklin
                              0-6-0 tank loc chassis into a SW1. It does require quite a bit of chassis
                              modification, but it is a very nice kit.

                              _http://www.zthek.com/_ (http://www.zthek.com/)

                              Dan S.


                              In a message dated 5/13/2009 4:19:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                              cct24@... writes:

                              I have read about this Locomotive on this list and in the issue of ZTrack
                              that arrived today. Who makes it and how can I get one?

                              Thanks

                              David Epling
                              Museum Manager
                              Western Pacific Railroad Museum 501(c)3
                              Portola, California
                              http://www.wplives.org
                              w: 530-832-4131
                              c: 209-915-5169



                              ------------------------------------

                              Z-scale: minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
                              Yahoo! Groups Links





                              **************Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after
                              instant savings!
                              (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221972443x1201442012/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819441%3B36680237%3Bi)


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              ------------------------------------

                              Z-scale: minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • ronaldjhurley
                              Uwe, I loved this.... thanks, ron
                              Message 14 of 16 , May 13, 2009
                                Uwe,

                                I loved this.... thanks, ron

                                > A problem shared is a problem halved.
                                > A joy shared is a joy doubled.
                                >
                                > --
                                > Happy GreetingZ
                                > Uwe
                                >
                              • Thomas Creighton Sr
                                who makes it prebuilt? ... From: David K. Smith Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: SW1 To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2009,
                                Message 15 of 16 , May 13, 2009
                                  who makes it prebuilt?

                                  --- On Wed, 5/13/09, David K. Smith <david@...> wrote:

                                  From: David K. Smith <david@...>
                                  Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: SW1
                                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 3:23 PM








                                  The SW1 is a craftsman kit from Zthek: http://www.zthek. com/id99. htm

                                  It runs on a modified Marklin 88051 mechanism, which is not included in the kit.

                                  Sometimes you can order them pre-built.

                                  --David

                                  http://jamesriverbr anch.net/
                                  http://1-220. blogspot. com/

                                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups .com, "David Epling" <cct24@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I have read about this Locomotive on this list and in the issue of ZTrack
                                  > that arrived today. Who makes it and how can I get one?
                                  >
                                  > Thanks
                                  >
                                  > David Epling
                                  > Museum Manager
                                  > Western Pacific Railroad Museum 501(c)3
                                  > Portola, California
                                  > http://www.wplives. org
                                  > w: 530-832-4131
                                  > c: 209-915-5169
                                  >
















                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Jim O'Connell
                                  Thomas, Actually no one makes the SW-1 prebuilt. Lajos will be happy to sell you a kit so you can get started, but I don t think he has the time or inclination
                                  Message 16 of 16 , May 14, 2009
                                    Thomas, Actually no one makes the SW-1 prebuilt. Lajos will be happy to sell you a kit so you can get started, but I don't think he has the time or inclination to make them anymore. He had Tim Buehring building them for the last couple of years. Tim does the chassis mods and the whole works I believe. He hangs out most on ZCS. Tim also makes many fine Z models. His time has been taken up for the last year away from home working. He is behind on all his projects. He will finish those before going back to the SW-1 again. I haven't talked to Tim or Lajos lately so this is info that may or may not be correct or current. Cheers, Jim CCRR
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