Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Bringing Back The Forum

Expand Messages
  • ztrack@aol.com
    Last night, the moderators have placed another member on moderated status. This is the second member is just as many months to have this done. While these
    Message 1 of 10 , May 5, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Last night, the moderators have placed another member on moderated status.
      This is the second member is just as many months to have this done. While
      these members can still participate in the forum, they will do so on a
      moderated status. This was done due to the personal negative nature of their
      responses. While we do not like to take this step, we feel it was appropriate
      based on this individuals current and past posts.

      The fact is, we have seen an increased about of strong posts which have
      turned personal. This has been compounded by an over whelming sense of
      negativity on this forum and others. The stir the pot syndrome is one way to put it.
      As these type of posts have increased, we have also witnessed the departure
      of many of our more talented and vocal Z scale friends who have decided
      that such negativity is not to be part of their lives.

      I would like to challenger all of us to bring back this forum and the other
      Z forums. These forums exist to share, educate, debate, promote and
      exchange ideas. All of us have our own experiences, and ideas. Debate is always
      welcome. It is highly important that we can have open dialog and view our
      differences. The key is to do so with respect and in a way that does not attack
      the individual. This will not be tolerated. We understand that many of you
      are passionate about your trains, or a specific manufacturer, and that is
      great. But we need to be tolerant to others. This list is strengthened by the
      fact that many manufacturers and manufacturer reps take part on this list.
      Again, open honest questions and debate on products should be encouraged with
      an appropriate response presented.

      At this point, I am encouraging all of us to bring back these forums from
      the negativity that has often prevailed. Let's get rolling again. Ask the
      questions, share your passion, pass on your findings and be a part of this
      great Z community. Z scale is moving forward and growing. Lets all do so
      together as a community.

      Rob

      Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
      6142 Northcliff Blvd.
      Dublin, OH 43016
      phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
      www.ztrack.com
      www.ztrackcenter.com
      Distributor American Z Line



      **************
      A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
      steps!
      (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&
      bcd=May5509AvgfooterNO115)


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dr John Lundy
      Here, here, Rob! John
      Message 2 of 10 , May 5, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Here, here, Rob!

        John



        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, ztrack@... wrote:
        >
        > Last night, the moderators have placed another member on moderated status.
        > This is the second member is just as many months to have this done. While
        > these members can still participate in the forum, they will do so on a
        > moderated status. This was done due to the personal negative nature of their
        > responses. While we do not like to take this step, we feel it was appropriate
        > based on this individuals current and past posts.
        >
        > The fact is, we have seen an increased about of strong posts which have
        > turned personal. This has been compounded by an over whelming sense of
        > negativity on this forum and others. The stir the pot syndrome is one way to put it.
        > As these type of posts have increased, we have also witnessed the departure
        > of many of our more talented and vocal Z scale friends who have decided
        > that such negativity is not to be part of their lives.
        >
        > I would like to challenger all of us to bring back this forum and the other
        > Z forums. These forums exist to share, educate, debate, promote and
        > exchange ideas. All of us have our own experiences, and ideas. Debate is always
        > welcome. It is highly important that we can have open dialog and view our
        > differences. The key is to do so with respect and in a way that does not attack
        > the individual. This will not be tolerated. We understand that many of you
        > are passionate about your trains, or a specific manufacturer, and that is
        > great. But we need to be tolerant to others. This list is strengthened by the
        > fact that many manufacturers and manufacturer reps take part on this list.
        > Again, open honest questions and debate on products should be encouraged with
        > an appropriate response presented.
        >
        > At this point, I am encouraging all of us to bring back these forums from
        > the negativity that has often prevailed. Let's get rolling again. Ask the
        > questions, share your passion, pass on your findings and be a part of this
        > great Z community. Z scale is moving forward and growing. Lets all do so
        > together as a community.
        >
        > Rob
        >
        > Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
        > 6142 Northcliff Blvd.
        > Dublin, OH 43016
        > phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
        > www.ztrack.com
        > www.ztrackcenter.com
        > Distributor American Z Line
        >
        >
        >
        > **************
        > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
        > steps!
        > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&
        > bcd=May5509AvgfooterNO115)
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Joe DAmato
        I think we also need to agree not to promote our products at the expense of someone elses. I don t have a problem with customers having loyalties or comparing
        Message 3 of 10 , May 5, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          I think we also need to agree not to promote our products at the expense of someone elses. I don't have a problem with customers having loyalties or comparing like items, it's part of the landscape and I encourage it. But when someone has a financial interest in the discussion, and makes false or misleading...or even snarky comments, a line gets crossed. We all have a lot of pride in the products we produce and when another manufacturer or Rep says your products are not accurate or poorly constructed, it's only natural to want to defend it. While I understand moderation is used to manage the tone and tennor of the discusson on forums, I think it must also be considered a consequence for those who are attempting to sell a product by pointing out the real or imagined shortcommings of a competitors' product. The conflict that took up a lot of space over the past few days didn't occur in a vaccum.

          Joe


          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, ztrack@... wrote:
          >
          > Last night, the moderators have placed another member on moderated status.
          > This is the second member is just as many months to have this done. While
          > these members can still participate in the forum, they will do so on a
          > moderated status. This was done due to the personal negative nature of their
          > responses. While we do not like to take this step, we feel it was appropriate
          > based on this individuals current and past posts.
          >
          > The fact is, we have seen an increased about of strong posts which have
          > turned personal. This has been compounded by an over whelming sense of
          > negativity on this forum and others. The stir the pot syndrome is one way to put it.
          > As these type of posts have increased, we have also witnessed the departure
          > of many of our more talented and vocal Z scale friends who have decided
          > that such negativity is not to be part of their lives.
          >
          > I would like to challenger all of us to bring back this forum and the other
          > Z forums. These forums exist to share, educate, debate, promote and
          > exchange ideas. All of us have our own experiences, and ideas. Debate is always
          > welcome. It is highly important that we can have open dialog and view our
          > differences. The key is to do so with respect and in a way that does not attack
          > the individual. This will not be tolerated. We understand that many of you
          > are passionate about your trains, or a specific manufacturer, and that is
          > great. But we need to be tolerant to others. This list is strengthened by the
          > fact that many manufacturers and manufacturer reps take part on this list.
          > Again, open honest questions and debate on products should be encouraged with
          > an appropriate response presented.
          >
          > At this point, I am encouraging all of us to bring back these forums from
          > the negativity that has often prevailed. Let's get rolling again. Ask the
          > questions, share your passion, pass on your findings and be a part of this
          > great Z community. Z scale is moving forward and growing. Lets all do so
          > together as a community.
          >
          > Rob
          >
          > Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
          > 6142 Northcliff Blvd.
          > Dublin, OH 43016
          > phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
          > www.ztrack.com
          > www.ztrackcenter.com
          > Distributor American Z Line
          >
          >
          >
          > **************
          > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
          > steps!
          > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&
          > bcd=May5509AvgfooterNO115)
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • ztrack@aol.com
          Joe, You are correct, a manufacturer has every right to defend a product. But it is how one does it that matters. I have challenged the manufacturers in the
          Message 4 of 10 , May 5, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Joe,

            You are correct, a manufacturer has every right to defend a product. But it
            is how one does it that matters. I have challenged the manufacturers in the
            past to stress the strengths and positives of their products, both in
            promotion and defense of their items. I think it is non realistic to say that a
            manufacturer cannot promote their strengths even if it is implied that a
            competing product does not have those qualities. Should AZL not promote their
            near accurate prototype width shells since it implies that other products
            may not have near accurate width dimensions? It is not like AZL is openly
            making accusations that other products have 'boiler plate' details. That fact is
            that this is a fine line between acceptable and not acceptable. But, as
            long as we keep to the facts and use these criticisms as a chance to educate
            and promote these products, then we keep positive.

            It should be also noted that many of these debates and over defense of
            products have not stemmed from manufacturers. They have started with consumers
            who have shared opinions, ask questions, or dared to make a comparison. This
            is exactly what we want the forums to be. We cannot stifle this type of
            discussion, nor should we. But as manufacturers and leaders in the hobby, we
            have the duty to respect the posts, share what knowledge we can share, guide
            and educate. It is never acceptable to attack and attempt to defame the person
            as we have seen is such open discussions of David Smith's GP7 and GP9
            review. I know we all can learn from these posts. In the end, if we are willing
            to be open to the criticisms and comparison, we all can work to make the
            hobby better and ultimately grow.

            Rob


            Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
            6142 Northcliff Blvd.
            Dublin, OH 43016
            phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
            www.ztrack.com
            www.ztrackcenter.com
            Distributor American Z Line



            **************
            A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
            steps!
            (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&
            bcd=May5509AvgfooterNO115)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • John & Sue Bartolotto
            I totally agree with Joe. John Bartolotto From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe DAmato Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009
            Message 5 of 10 , May 5, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              I totally agree with Joe.



              John Bartolotto



              From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Joe DAmato
              Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 5:17 PM
              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Bringing Back The Forum








              I think we also need to agree not to promote our products at the expense of
              someone elses. I don't have a problem with customers having loyalties or
              comparing like items, it's part of the landscape and I encourage it. But
              when someone has a financial interest in the discussion, and makes false or
              misleading...or even snarky comments, a line gets crossed. We all have a lot
              of pride in the products we produce and when another manufacturer or Rep
              says your products are not accurate or poorly constructed, it's only natural
              to want to defend it. While I understand moderation is used to manage the
              tone and tennor of the discusson on forums, I think it must also be
              considered a consequence for those who are attempting to sell a product by
              pointing out the real or imagined shortcommings of a competitors' product.
              The conflict that took up a lot of space over the past few days didn't occur
              in a vaccum.

              Joe

              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com <mailto:z_scale%40yahoogroups.com> ,
              ztrack@... wrote:
              >
              > Last night, the moderators have placed another member on moderated status.

              > This is the second member is just as many months to have this done. While
              > these members can still participate in the forum, they will do so on a
              > moderated status. This was done due to the personal negative nature of
              their
              > responses. While we do not like to take this step, we feel it was
              appropriate
              > based on this individuals current and past posts.
              >
              > The fact is, we have seen an increased about of strong posts which have
              > turned personal. This has been compounded by an over whelming sense of
              > negativity on this forum and others. The stir the pot syndrome is one way
              to put it.
              > As these type of posts have increased, we have also witnessed the
              departure
              > of many of our more talented and vocal Z scale friends who have decided
              > that such negativity is not to be part of their lives.
              >
              > I would like to challenger all of us to bring back this forum and the
              other
              > Z forums. These forums exist to share, educate, debate, promote and
              > exchange ideas. All of us have our own experiences, and ideas. Debate is
              always
              > welcome. It is highly important that we can have open dialog and view our
              > differences. The key is to do so with respect and in a way that does not
              attack
              > the individual. This will not be tolerated. We understand that many of you

              > are passionate about your trains, or a specific manufacturer, and that is
              > great. But we need to be tolerant to others. This list is strengthened by
              the
              > fact that many manufacturers and manufacturer reps take part on this list.

              > Again, open honest questions and debate on products should be encouraged
              with
              > an appropriate response presented.
              >
              > At this point, I am encouraging all of us to bring back these forums from
              > the negativity that has often prevailed. Let's get rolling again. Ask the
              > questions, share your passion, pass on your findings and be a part of this

              > great Z community. Z scale is moving forward and growing. Lets all do so
              > together as a community.
              >
              > Rob
              >
              > Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
              > 6142 Northcliff Blvd.
              > Dublin, OH 43016
              > phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
              > www.ztrack.com
              > www.ztrackcenter.com
              > Distributor American Z Line
              >
              >
              >
              > **************
              > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
              > steps!
              >
              (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=htt
              p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072
              <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=htt
              p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&>
              &hmpgID=115&
              > bcd=May5509AvgfooterNO115)
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Joe DAmato
              I don t have problems with fair comparisons by objective folks, I just think it s bad form to sell one s products at the expense of others...and that happens.
              Message 6 of 10 , May 5, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                I don't have problems with fair comparisons by objective folks, I just think it's bad form to sell one's products at the expense of others...and that happens. I don't go on these forums and say..."Hey we got a new set of passenger cars and here's how they are better than my competition's". I have no use for that nor have I ever encouraged anyone to fight my battles.(in no way saying you do) We have to make tough business decisons that affect the final design of a product, that's the real world. We all deal with that. I just think we need to avoid any appearance of conflict of interest on this forum...make an announcement about a new product and then get out of the way...frankly I wonder if this is even the proper venue to do that, but that's a different discussion all together.

                And to my point about folks making questionable claims getting a pass and those who challenge them being punished by banishment via moderation or snarkie Blogs on personal websites, Malcolms last post makes the case. He has restated his position, one I challenge until he shows up here at the plant with a tape measure, but Steve can't now that he's been moderated. I worry about what that says about who's product is being protected...maybe I didn't see the harm in his posts since I see much, much, much worse on the Atlas forum where MTL bashing has evolved to an artform. What he said may have been confrontory, but hardly worth banishment. I think we should let Steve make his case or Malcolm's post be moderated and we all call it a day, a lesson learned and a good excuse to eat a lot of chocolate.

                Joe


                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, ztrack@... wrote:
                >
                > Joe,
                >
                > You are correct, a manufacturer has every right to defend a product. But it
                > is how one does it that matters. I have challenged the manufacturers in the
                > past to stress the strengths and positives of their products, both in
                > promotion and defense of their items. I think it is non realistic to say that a
                > manufacturer cannot promote their strengths even if it is implied that a
                > competing product does not have those qualities. Should AZL not promote their
                > near accurate prototype width shells since it implies that other products
                > may not have near accurate width dimensions? It is not like AZL is openly
                > making accusations that other products have 'boiler plate' details. That fact is
                > that this is a fine line between acceptable and not acceptable. But, as
                > long as we keep to the facts and use these criticisms as a chance to educate
                > and promote these products, then we keep positive.
                >
                > It should be also noted that many of these debates and over defense of
                > products have not stemmed from manufacturers. They have started with consumers
                > who have shared opinions, ask questions, or dared to make a comparison. This
                > is exactly what we want the forums to be. We cannot stifle this type of
                > discussion, nor should we. But as manufacturers and leaders in the hobby, we
                > have the duty to respect the posts, share what knowledge we can share, guide
                > and educate. It is never acceptable to attack and attempt to defame the person
                > as we have seen is such open discussions of David Smith's GP7 and GP9
                > review. I know we all can learn from these posts. In the end, if we are willing
                > to be open to the criticisms and comparison, we all can work to make the
                > hobby better and ultimately grow.
                >
                > Rob
                >
                >
                > Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
                > 6142 Northcliff Blvd.
                > Dublin, OH 43016
                > phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
                > www.ztrack.com
                > www.ztrackcenter.com
                > Distributor American Z Line
                >
                >
                >
                > **************
                > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
                > steps!
                > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&
                > bcd=May5509AvgfooterNO115)
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Jeff BAZ-man
                Us consumers and viewers of the forums see both the manufacutures jabs (see below, they re there in a way to show another example of the reasons) and also
                Message 7 of 10 , May 5, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Us consumers and viewers of the forums see both the manufacutures 'jabs' (see below, they're there in a way to show another example of the reasons) and also the critiques (and compliments) of of various products.

                  To me, there are two distinct catagories: the manufacture postings and the product discussions. Manufacturers make announcements and most are benign, as they should be. Some, have often just that one line in there that can start everyone, including other manufacturers, to turn the heat up. Maybe seeming simple in terms, the example below of 'accurate prototype widths' can easily start one, and has. So lets keep the new product listings down to the generics, please:
                  Loco/rolling stock
                  Model/size
                  road name
                  option

                  No special info (we can get that on the website or LHS) or pricing (we all know we aren't paying MSRP)

                  As for the product discussions, there are many on all of the forums and they expect nothing but but perfection and every road. It's just not going to happen. First, any prototype was never made in 1,000,000 volumes so you ARE going to find endless variations. So expect some compromises, many of them. And, when you consider that there are all kinds of parts going into it, some outsourced, mistakes happen. So something will be wrong. Happens in big market HO, certainly happens in other scales. I had to excommunicate one member because he just did not get the clue about this and antagonized everyone instead of 'oh joy, a new model". All I can say here is, I hope they don't go into business because they're going to be on the other end of it.

                  So lets keep them to discussions. Or simply step back for a moment and not try and be the king of the hill. We need all the manufactures we can, in any variation we can. This is Z. Like our economy, if you talk about the good stuff, it gets better.

                  Jeff
                  SF Bay Area Z

                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Joe DAmato" <shipsure2003@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I don't have problems with fair comparisons by objective folks, I just think it's bad form to sell one's products at the expense of others...and that happens. I don't go on these forums and say..."Hey we got a new set of passenger cars and here's how they are better than my competition's". I have no use for that nor have I ever encouraged anyone to fight my battles.(in no way saying you do) We have to make tough business decisons that affect the final design of a product, that's the real world. We all deal with that. I just think we need to avoid any appearance of conflict of interest on this forum...make an announcement about a new product and then get out of the way...frankly I wonder if this is even the proper venue to do that, but that's a different discussion all together.
                  >
                  > And to my point about folks making questionable claims getting a pass and those who challenge them being punished by banishment via moderation or snarkie Blogs on personal websites, Malcolms last post makes the case. He has restated his position, one I challenge until he shows up here at the plant with a tape measure, but Steve can't now that he's been moderated. I worry about what that says about who's product is being protected...maybe I didn't see the harm in his posts since I see much, much, much worse on the Atlas forum where MTL bashing has evolved to an artform. What he said may have been confrontory, but hardly worth banishment. I think we should let Steve make his case or Malcolm's post be moderated and we all call it a day, a lesson learned and a good excuse to eat a lot of chocolate.
                  >
                  > Joe
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, ztrack@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Joe,
                  > >
                  > > You are correct, a manufacturer has every right to defend a product. But it
                  > > is how one does it that matters. I have challenged the manufacturers in the
                  > > past to stress the strengths and positives of their products, both in
                  > > promotion and defense of their items. I think it is non realistic to say that a
                  > > manufacturer cannot promote their strengths even if it is implied that a
                  > > competing product does not have those qualities. Should AZL not promote their
                  > > near accurate prototype width shells since it implies that other products
                  > > may not have near accurate width dimensions? It is not like AZL is openly
                  > > making accusations that other products have 'boiler plate' details. That fact is
                  > > that this is a fine line between acceptable and not acceptable. But, as
                  > > long as we keep to the facts and use these criticisms as a chance to educate
                  > > and promote these products, then we keep positive.
                  > >
                  > > It should be also noted that many of these debates and over defense of
                  > > products have not stemmed from manufacturers. They have started with consumers
                  > > who have shared opinions, ask questions, or dared to make a comparison. This
                  > > is exactly what we want the forums to be. We cannot stifle this type of
                  > > discussion, nor should we. But as manufacturers and leaders in the hobby, we
                  > > have the duty to respect the posts, share what knowledge we can share, guide
                  > > and educate. It is never acceptable to attack and attempt to defame the person
                  > > as we have seen is such open discussions of David Smith's GP7 and GP9
                  > > review. I know we all can learn from these posts. In the end, if we are willing
                  > > to be open to the criticisms and comparison, we all can work to make the
                  > > hobby better and ultimately grow.
                  > >
                  > > Rob
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
                  > > 6142 Northcliff Blvd.
                  > > Dublin, OH 43016
                  > > phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
                  > > www.ztrack.com
                  > > www.ztrackcenter.com
                  > > Distributor American Z Line
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > **************
                  > > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
                  > > steps!
                  > > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&
                  > > bcd=May5509AvgfooterNO115)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                • Dr John Lundy
                  Gee Jeff, Here I thought the manufacturers would come out with all the proper locomotives painted in GN, SP&S and NP schemes! I am generally happy with the
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 5, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Gee Jeff,
                    Here I thought the manufacturers would come out with all the proper locomotives painted in GN, SP&S and NP schemes! I am generally happy with the manufacturers' products and think the increase in Z scale products is a boost for our scale. I also think we need to have an environment that encourages vendors, especially small ones, to manufacture Z items. Some might think twice when they see the rancor on the forums over some new products. Some of the new products are not ones that fit my era or are in the roads I model, but I certainly appreciate the efforts of everyone who is providing Z scale with products.

                    John

                    --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff BAZ-man" <sjbazman49@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Us consumers and viewers of the forums see both the manufacutures 'jabs' (see below, they're there in a way to show > As for the product discussions, there are many on all of the forums and they expect nothing but but perfection and every road.
                  • Glen Chenier
                    ... There is a big difference between banishment and moderated. Banishment is reserved for those who attempt to join this list for the sole purpose of
                    Message 9 of 10 , May 5, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Joe DAmato" <shipsure2003@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > And to my point about folks making questionable claims getting a pass >and those who challenge them being punished by banishment via >moderation ...
                      >What he said may have been confrontory, but hardly worth banishment...


                      There is a big difference between banishment and moderated.

                      Banishment is reserved for those who attempt to join this list for the sole purpose of harvesting email addresses for spamming. Banishment means "You have demonstrated no legitimate interest in the subject matter of this forum, you have spammed list members, and we have now ejected your sorry a$$ permanently."

                      Moderated means "You have made posts that are considered offensive to other members and are TEMPORARILY restricted from making further posts that could escalate ill feelings."
                    • Alex
                      Do you really believe in this statement? Because, if you do... the next set of shoe-dropping is going to hurt a lot more than the last. A lot of experts
                      Message 10 of 10 , May 6, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Do you really believe in this statement? Because, if you do... the next set of shoe-dropping is going to hurt a lot more than the last. A lot of "experts" talked a whole lot of "good" in attempts to cover-up and hide what was really going on.

                        I apologize, but this statement mirrors what has happend in the media... that no longer seeks out the truth, but parrots the press releases.

                        Alex
                        Tokyo, Japan

                        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff BAZ-man" <sjbazman49@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Like our economy, if you talk about the good stuff, it gets better.
                        >
                        > Jeff
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.