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RE: REPLACEMENT UNDECORATED MTL CONTAINERS

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  • Malcolm Cleaveland
    ... Definitely. According to my micrometer, the Marklin containers (and the MCZ containers they mate with) are perfectly in scale, but the MTL containers are
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 30, 2009
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      On Wed Apr 29, 2009 ztrack@... wrote:

      > To place MCZ on MTL containers, you may have to affix them to keep them
      > in place.

      Definitely. According to my micrometer, the Marklin containers (and the
      MCZ containers they mate with) are perfectly in scale, but the MTL
      containers are not. In my experience (admittedly limited), even the MTL
      containers will not ride on top of each other when running. So I
      recommend that anyone wanting to run intermodal trains should use magnets
      or temporary adhesive to secure their topside containers. The temporary
      adhesive is made by 3M and readily available at craft and hobby stores.
      Deluxe Innovations sells "Container Adhesive" for this purpose, but the
      craft store 3M version is probably cheaper.

      CheerZ,
      -- Malcolm Z
      MCZ Models
    • mompey
      HI Malcolm I have run 20-30 MTL huskies with 2 containers each for hours and never had a problem with them falling off, infact the stacking lugs work really
      Message 2 of 20 , May 1, 2009
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        HI Malcolm

        I have run 20-30 MTL huskies with 2 containers each for hours and never had a problem with them falling off, infact the stacking lugs work really well, the only issue is having 2 x 20' on top of a 40'.

        They look inscale to me and they are far cheaper. Im really happy with them.

        Mike..

        . In my experience (admittedly limited), even the MTL
        > containers will not ride on top of each other when running. So I
        > recommend that anyone wanting to run intermodal trains should use magnets
        > or temporary adhesive to secure their topside containers.
        >
        > CheerZ,
        > -- Malcolm Z
        > MCZ Models
        >
      • stevegail
        - the only issue is having 2 x 20 on top of a 40 . Even real railroads have that problem. In fact they always run 1 40 container on top of 2 20
        Message 3 of 20 , May 2, 2009
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          - the only issue is having 2 x 20' on top of a 40'.

          Even "real" railroads have that problem. In fact they always run 1 40' container on top of 2 20' containers (I'm sure someone will produce a photo disproving this statement), but as a practice it's always larger on top of smaller.
          --Steve from the other Phoenix
        • dpstripe@aol.com
          Containers are designed to support weight on their corners. Stacking shorter containers on top of longer ones could damage the longer container. That is why it
          Message 4 of 20 , May 2, 2009
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            Containers are designed to support weight on their corners. Stacking
            shorter containers on top of longer ones could damage the longer container. That
            is why it is quite common to see even a single short container under a
            longer one.
            Dan S.


            In a message dated 5/2/2009 10:54:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
            sschulman541@... writes:

            - the only issue is having 2 x 20' on top of a 40'.

            Even "real" railroads have that problem. In fact they always run 1 40'
            container on top of 2 20' containers (I'm sure someone will produce a photo
            disproving this statement), but as a practice it's always larger on top of
            smaller.
            --Steve from the other Phoenix


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          • Joe DAmato
            Wrong. We have both the 20 and 40 containers as sheds out back and they match those dimensions...and I think the comment about them not staying together is a
            Message 5 of 20 , May 3, 2009
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              Wrong.
              We have both the 20' and 40' containers as sheds out back and they match those dimensions...and I think the comment about them not staying together is a bit off base. In the years we have produced them, we haven't had any problems with them interlocking. They have always been packaged together in the well car and it they didn't line up they wouldn't have fit in nest.

              Joe
              MTL

              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Cleaveland <mcleavel@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > On Wed Apr 29, 2009 ztrack@... wrote:
              >
              > > To place MCZ on MTL containers, you may have to affix them to keep them
              > > in place.
              >
              > Definitely. According to my micrometer, the Marklin containers (and the
              > MCZ containers they mate with) are perfectly in scale, but the MTL
              > containers are not. In my experience (admittedly limited), even the MTL
              > containers will not ride on top of each other when running. So I
              > recommend that anyone wanting to run intermodal trains should use magnets
              > or temporary adhesive to secure their topside containers. The temporary
              > adhesive is made by 3M and readily available at craft and hobby stores.
              > Deluxe Innovations sells "Container Adhesive" for this purpose, but the
              > craft store 3M version is probably cheaper.
              >
              > CheerZ,
              > -- Malcolm Z
              > MCZ Models
              >
            • Cliff Travis
              Hi, I have also found that MTL containers fit well together as well as fitting the car with pins mating with sockets Cliff
              Message 6 of 20 , May 3, 2009
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                Hi,
                I have also found that MTL containers fit well together as well as fitting the car with pins mating with sockets
                Cliff


                In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Joe DAmato" <shipsure2003@...> wrote:
                >
                > Wrong.
                > We have both the 20' and 40' containers as sheds out back and they match those dimensions...and I think the comment about them not staying together is a bit off base. In the years we have produced them, we haven't had any problems with them interlocking. They have always been packaged together in the well car and it they didn't line up they wouldn't have fit in nest.
                >
                > Joe
                > MTL
                >
                > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Cleaveland <mcleavel@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > On Wed Apr 29, 2009 ztrack@ wrote:
                > >
                > > > To place MCZ on MTL containers, you may have to affix them to keep them
                > > > in place.
                > >
                > > Definitely. According to my micrometer, the Marklin containers (and the
                > > MCZ containers they mate with) are perfectly in scale, but the MTL
                > > containers are not. In my experience (admittedly limited), even the MTL
                > > containers will not ride on top of each other when running. So I
                > > recommend that anyone wanting to run intermodal trains should use magnets
                > > or temporary adhesive to secure their topside containers. The temporary
                > > adhesive is made by 3M and readily available at craft and hobby stores.
                > > Deluxe Innovations sells "Container Adhesive" for this purpose, but the
                > > craft store 3M version is probably cheaper.
                > >
                > > CheerZ,
                > > -- Malcolm Z
                > > MCZ Models
                > >
                >
              • Malcolm Cleaveland
                ... Mike, Glad you ve had better luck than I have. Don t have much of a layout, maybe the trackwork is too rough. I ve just had a lot of trouble getting the
                Message 7 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                  On Sat, 02 May 2009 "mompey" mompey@... wrote:

                  > HI Malcolm
                  > I have run 20-30 MTL huskies with 2 containers each for hours
                  > and never had a problem with them falling off, infact the
                  > stacking lugs work really well, the only issue is having 2 x
                  > 20' on top of a 40'.

                  > They look inscale to me and they are far cheaper. Im really
                  > happy with them.

                  > Mike..

                  > > In my experience (admittedly limited), even the MTL
                  > > containers will not ride on top of each other when running. So I
                  > > recommend that anyone wanting to run intermodal trains should
                  > > use magnets or temporary adhesive to secure their topside containers.
                  > >
                  > > CheerZ,
                  > > -- Malcolm Z
                  > > MCZ Models
                  > >

                  Mike,

                  Glad you've had better luck than I have. Don't have much of a layout,
                  maybe the trackwork is too rough. I've just had a lot of trouble getting
                  the MTL containers to stay stacked. Maybe I got a bad batch.

                  As far as the rest of it, all I can say is, you get what you pay for,
                  and while the MTL containers are pretty close to prototype dimensions (but
                  not exact), NONE of them have prototypical paint schemes.

                  The fact that you would even consider putting two 20's on top of a 40'
                  indicates that you should study up a little on intermodal. No one has
                  ever seen one or two 20's on top of a 40' container in the real world.
                  That's because only two IBCs on each 20' would be locked. Almost anything
                  other than the smoothest possible ride would encourage the 20's take
                  flight or damage the IBCs with strong torque.

                  The Z_intermodal list would be a good place to start the learning
                  process. There are also plenty of good books out there now by Jeff Wilson
                  and Solomon, among others. In the past I have posted lists of reference
                  books to the Z_intermodal list, and they would be available in the
                  archives. Good hunting!

                  CheerZ,
                  -- Malcolm Z
                  MCZ Models
                • Jeff BAZ-man
                  I think he is talking about the mounting pins, not the HxWxD size. My containers pretty much stay together but, they can come apart if trying to pick up the
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                    I think he is talking about the mounting pins, not the HxWxD size.

                    My containers pretty much stay together but, they can come apart if trying to pick up the car via the top container or, right between the top and bottom container (pinch point). Sometimes, both come out of the well. My solution: CA. Solves the various vendor problem too. Now they all like each other :)

                    As much as I try an get in the habit of picking up cars from all the way at the track level, sometimes with get picked up from above. This is a bad habit with heavy brass, leaving the chassis someplace between the shell and track (or desk or floor) !!!

                    Jeff
                    SF Bay Area Z

                    --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Joe DAmato" <shipsure2003@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Wrong.
                    > We have both the 20' and 40' containers as sheds out back and they match those dimensions...and I think the comment about them not staying together is a bit off base. In the years we have produced them, we haven't had any problems with them interlocking. They have always been packaged together in the well car and it they didn't line up they wouldn't have fit in nest.
                    >
                    > Joe
                    > MTL
                    >
                    > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Cleaveland <mcleavel@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Wed Apr 29, 2009 ztrack@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > To place MCZ on MTL containers, you may have to affix them to keep them
                    > > > in place.
                    > >
                    > > Definitely. According to my micrometer, the Marklin containers (and the
                    > > MCZ containers they mate with) are perfectly in scale, but the MTL
                    > > containers are not. In my experience (admittedly limited), even the MTL
                    > > containers will not ride on top of each other when running. So I
                    > > recommend that anyone wanting to run intermodal trains should use magnets
                    > > or temporary adhesive to secure their topside containers. The temporary
                    > > adhesive is made by 3M and readily available at craft and hobby stores.
                    > > Deluxe Innovations sells "Container Adhesive" for this purpose, but the
                    > > craft store 3M version is probably cheaper.
                    > >
                    > > CheerZ,
                    > > -- Malcolm Z
                    > > MCZ Models
                    > >
                    >
                  • stevegail
                    Malcolm--In a previous life-time (16 years in the toy business), I did a lot of importing from the Orient and I can tell you from cubing out containers that
                    Message 9 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                      Malcolm--In a previous life-time (16 years in the toy business), I did a lot of importing from the Orient and I can tell you from "cubing out containers" that there is NO such thing as a prototype dimension. Every shipper and every manufacture of containers had their own idea as to what a 40' containers cube was. Your statement is pure bunk and is only trying to justify your containers as the only ones that are correct.
                      --Steve from the other Phoenix
                      --
                      >
                      > As far as the rest of it, all I can say is, you get what you pay for,
                      > and while the MTL containers are pretty close to prototype dimensions (but
                      > not exact), .
                      >
                      >
                    • ztrack@aol.com
                      ... Steve, I did not think Malcolm implied that his containers are the only ones correct. You have to factor in that Marklin and FR also have released
                      Message 10 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                        In a message dated 5/4/09 8:56:43 PM, sschulman541@... writes:


                        > Your statement is pure bunk and is only trying to justify your containers
                        > as the only ones that are correct.
                        >

                        Steve,

                        I did not think Malcolm implied that his containers are the only ones
                        correct. You have to factor in that Marklin and FR also have released containers
                        that are very good. But I will tell you this, Malcolm's MCZ line (produced
                        with FR of Germany) containers are by far the single best container in the
                        market today. Period. He has done his research own these and the quality and
                        detail are superb. The fact is, the MTL containers are very close in height
                        and width to MCZ, but they do not match. The MCZ match closely to the
                        containers of Marklin and FR which is why the containers of these companies can be
                        used together through their standard pin configurations.

                        If you would like to refute the above statement, then please do, but don't
                        attack the person. Personally, I feel Malcolm was professional is his
                        response and was not pushing his products, but sharing his experiences. But
                        frankly, he has every right to go into detail about the quality, detail and finish
                        of his line.

                        Rob

                        Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
                        6142 Northcliff Blvd.
                        Dublin, OH 43016
                        phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
                        www.ztrack.com
                        www.ztrackcenter.com
                        Distributor American Z Line



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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • stevegail
                        ... Rob--Malcolm said MTL containers are pretty close to prototype dimensions (but not exact) and you said The fact is MTL containers are very close to MCZ,
                        Message 11 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, ztrack@... wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > In a message dated 5/4/09 8:56:43 PM, sschulman541@... writes:
                          >
                          >
                          Rob--Malcolm said "MTL containers are pretty close to prototype dimensions (but not exact)" and you said "The fact is MTL containers are very close to MCZ, but they do nor match." You can parse words all you want, but the fact is that all 40' containers are NOT the same. I satnd by my statement that Malcolm (and by inferance you, since you have a vested interest) is trying to claim that his containers (plus Marklins) are the only true to protype containers. Best regards,
                          --Steve from the other Phoenix

                          > > Your statement is pure bunk and is only trying to justify your containers
                          > > as the only ones that are correct.
                          > >
                          >
                          > Steve,
                          >
                          > I did not think Malcolm implied that his containers are the only ones
                          > correct. You have to factor in that Marklin and FR also have released containers
                          > that are very good. But I will tell you this, Malcolm's MCZ line (produced
                          > with FR of Germany) containers are by far the single best container in the
                          > market today. Period. He has done his research own these and the quality and
                          > detail are superb. The fact is, the MTL containers are very close in height
                          > and width to MCZ, but they do not match. The MCZ match closely to the
                          > containers of Marklin and FR which is why the containers of these companies can be
                          > used together through their standard pin configurations.
                          >
                          > If you would like to refute the above statement, then please do, but don't
                          > attack the person. Personally, I feel Malcolm was professional is his
                          > response and was not pushing his products, but sharing his experiences. But
                          > frankly, he has every right to go into detail about the quality, detail and finish
                          > of his line.
                          >
                          > Rob
                          >
                          > Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
                          > 6142 Northcliff Blvd.
                          > Dublin, OH 43016
                          > phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
                          > www.ztrack.com
                          > www.ztrackcenter.com
                          > Distributor American Z Line
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > **************
                          > 2009 3 Free CREDIT SCORES: See Your 3 Credit Scores from All
                          > 3 Bureaus FREE!
                          > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221797372x1201397989/aol?redir=https:%2F%2Fwww.freescore.com%2FOffers%2FStart%2FFreeCreditRepor
                          > tAndScore.aspx%3FID%3D91831F371F138345B53A153F49D4D872%26siteid%3De927580bf7
                          > )
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Kez
                          What s wrong Steve? Are you having a bad day? Was this post at all necessary? I don t believe that Malcolm wrote ANYTHING here to imply that his containers
                          Message 12 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                            What's wrong Steve? Are you having a bad day? Was this post at all necessary?
                            I don't believe that Malcolm wrote ANYTHING here to imply that his containers
                            are the only correct ones. And your experience is your experience, no one
                            else's. And if there was no such thing as prototype containers, then how come
                            all of those containers can stay together so well on a moving train? Somehow
                            they seem to match up.

                            You are out of line, and I believe you owe Malcolm AND the list an apology.

                            Please everyone, think before you post.



                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "stevegail" <sschulman541@...>
                            To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 8:56 PM
                            Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: REPLACEMENT UNDECORATED MTL CONTAINERS


                            > Malcolm--In a previous life-time (16 years in the toy business), I did a lot
                            of importing from the Orient and I can tell you from "cubing out containers"
                            that there is NO such thing as a prototype dimension. Every shipper and every
                            manufacture of containers had their own idea as to what a 40' containers cube
                            was. Your statement is pure bunk and is only trying to justify your containers
                            as the only ones that are correct.
                            > --Steve from the other Phoenix
                            > --
                            > >
                            > > As far as the rest of it, all I can say is, you get what you pay for,
                            > > and while the MTL containers are pretty close to prototype dimensions (but
                            > > not exact), .
                            > >
                          • Glen Chenier
                            GENTLEMEN: As Kez says, please contain your feelings, take a deep breathe, calm down, have a smoke if that s your thing, and think about what a comment made in
                            Message 13 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                              GENTLEMEN:

                              As Kez says, please contain your feelings, take a deep breathe, calm down, have a smoke if that's your thing, and think about what a comment made in a moment of anger says about you for the whole world to see. Hold off on comments until tomorrow, you may see things in a different perspective then.



                              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Kez" <bkeyser@...> wrote:
                              >...>
                              > You are out of line, and I believe you owe Malcolm AND the list an apology.
                              >
                              > Please everyone, think before you post.
                            • Jim O'Connell
                              I don t know who is right or wrong here. I m just glad my modeling era ends in 1940. There are so few options in Z for we steam folks that there isn t much to
                              Message 14 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                                I don't know who is right or wrong here. I'm just glad my modeling era ends in 1940. There are so few options in Z for we steam folks that there isn't much to argue about. So calm down all. You have it better than you think. Cheers, Jim CCRR
                              • Loren
                                Hey Jim, Since your modeling era ends in 1940, I better not see any modern diesels putt putting around your track or I ll have to issue you a out of era
                                Message 15 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                                  Hey Jim,
                                  Since your modeling era ends in 1940, I better not see any modern diesels
                                  putt putting around your track or I'll have to issue you a 'out of era'
                                  ticket, punishable by sending 100 trees to all the lady modelers in the
                                  groups........wow, that could get expensive huh.

                                  Z rocks,
                                  Loren

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Jim O'Connell" <jimo.crcmnvgtr@...>
                                  To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 8:28 PM
                                  Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: REPLACEMENT UNDECORATED MTL CONTAINERS


                                  >I don't know who is right or wrong here. I'm just glad my modeling era ends
                                  >in 1940. There are so few options in Z for we steam folks that there isn't
                                  >much to argue about. So calm down all. You have it better than you think.
                                  >Cheers, Jim CCRR
                                • John Mui
                                  Loren, Jim has a diesel, because I saw it in one of his pictures. Jim, you owe me 100 trees. Whalewoman ... From: Loren To:
                                  Message 16 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                                    Loren, Jim has a diesel, because I saw it in one of his pictures. Jim, you
                                    owe me 100 trees.

                                    Whalewoman
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Loren" <ljsnyder@...>
                                    To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 11:36 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: REPLACEMENT UNDECORATED MTL CONTAINERS


                                    > Hey Jim,
                                    > Since your modeling era ends in 1940, I better not see any modern diesels
                                    > putt putting around your track or I'll have to issue you a 'out of era'
                                    > ticket, punishable by sending 100 trees to all the lady modelers in the
                                    > groups........wow, that could get expensive huh.
                                    >
                                    > Z rocks,
                                    > Loren
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: "Jim O'Connell" <jimo.crcmnvgtr@...>
                                    > To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 8:28 PM
                                    > Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: REPLACEMENT UNDECORATED MTL CONTAINERS
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >>I don't know who is right or wrong here. I'm just glad my modeling era
                                    >>ends
                                    >>in 1940. There are so few options in Z for we steam folks that there isn't
                                    >>much to argue about. So calm down all. You have it better than you think.
                                    >>Cheers, Jim CCRR
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Z-scale: minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Loren
                                    Oh great John, Now I have to come down there and write Jim a ticket.......no, wait, I already knew about Jim s diesel loco.....a NP I think. I sold it to him
                                    Message 17 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                                      Oh great John,
                                      Now I have to come down there and write Jim a ticket.......no, wait, I
                                      already knew about Jim's diesel loco.....a NP I think.
                                      I sold it to him so I'll let that one get by. See how the political system
                                      works.........you're only guilty if a certain person says you are.

                                      And further more John, you saw both Jim and me wear our fingers to the bone
                                      at NTS showing folks how to make trees.......
                                      Did you learn? Noooooooooooooooooo. you just had to stand there all day
                                      long with your finger on the throttle having more fun than your fair share.

                                      No sireee.......you don't get any trees. Go make them yourself, you lazy
                                      good for nothing goofer offer...... :o)

                                      We now return you to your otherwise boring evening......never mind.

                                      Loren

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "John Mui" <jmui@...>
                                      To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 8:48 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: REPLACEMENT UNDECORATED MTL CONTAINERS


                                      > Loren, Jim has a diesel, because I saw it in one of his pictures. Jim, you
                                      > owe me 100 trees.
                                    • Jim O'Connell
                                      I do have Lajos great SW-1. No photos of it in action til I can learn how to do decals properly. What a nightmare?!? Cheers, Jim CCRR
                                      Message 18 of 20 , May 4, 2009
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                                        I do have Lajos' great SW-1. No photos of it in action 'til I can learn how to do decals properly. What a nightmare?!? Cheers, Jim CCRR
                                      • Malcolm Cleaveland
                                        ... Rob--Malcolm said MTL containers are pretty close to prototype dimensions (but not exact) and you said The fact is MTL containers are very close to MCZ,
                                        Message 19 of 20 , May 5, 2009
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                                          On Mon, 04 May 2009, "stevegail" sschulman541@... wrote:

                                          > Malcolm--In a previous life-time (16 years in the toy
                                          > business), I did a lot of importing from the Orient and I can
                                          > tell you from "cubing out containers" that there is NO such
                                          > thing as a prototype dimension. Every shipper and every
                                          > manufacture of containers had their own idea as to what a 40'
                                          > containers cube was. Your statement is pure bunk and is only
                                          > trying to justify your containers as the only ones that are
                                          > correct.
                                          > --Steve from the other Phoenix
                                          >>
                                          >> As far as the rest of it, all I can say is, you get what you pay
                                          >> for and while the MTL containers are pretty close to prototype
                                          >> dimensions (but not exact), .
                                          >
                                          >

                                          AND:
                                          >
                                          Rob--Malcolm said "MTL containers are pretty close to prototype
                                          dimensions (but not exact)" and you said "The fact is MTL
                                          containers are very close to MCZ, but they do nor match." You
                                          can parse words all you want, but the fact is that all 40'
                                          containers are NOT the same. I satnd by my statement that
                                          Malcolm (and by inferance you, since you have a vested
                                          interest) is trying to claim that his containers (plus
                                          Marklins) are the only true to protype containers. Best
                                          regards,
                                          --Steve from the other Phoenix

                                          > > Your statement is pure bunk and is only trying to justify your
                                          > > containers as the only ones that are correct.
                                          > >
                                          > >

                                          Steve,

                                          I'm sorry, but you misunderstood me, and you are correct that there are
                                          differences in container dimensions. There is indeed a difference between
                                          40' containers, as you say. Some are hi-cube (9'6" high), some are
                                          standard (8'6" high). There may even be some slight differences in width
                                          (8'), but this is usually small fractions of an inch because the container
                                          must be able to fit into a well car. Differences in overall length
                                          between 40' containers are also limited to a small amount, usually less
                                          than an inch. If you found differences in cubic capacity, this is
                                          probably due to hi-cube vs. standard cube, interior construction,
                                          flooring, etc.

                                          Why are the differences between containers so small? In one word,
                                          standardization. The longitudinal and lateral distances between the IBCs
                                          MUST be standard to within 1 or 2 mm, or the boxes will not stack easily.
                                          Certainly, if the standards were not adhered to, you could probably force
                                          a fit, in the process damaging the IBCs on one or both containers. Once
                                          you damage an IBC, the container is withdrawn from service. The reason
                                          you can buy a container cheaply now is almost always not because the
                                          container itself is seriously damaged, but because the IBCs have become
                                          worn out of tolerance with use. While IBCs could be replaced, in practice
                                          they never are because it is expensive and welded add-ons would be less
                                          trustworthy than the original orifice, which is milled out of a single
                                          piece steel frame to the most exacting specifications.

                                          So the IBC separation dimensions are VERY exact because they absolutely
                                          must be. When talking about lengths greater than 40', overall length can
                                          vary considerably (inches), because it makes little difference. The extra
                                          length containers are a small percentage of the the containers used in
                                          international trade, which is to say that the overwhelming majority of the
                                          containers on box boats and on roads in Europe and Asia are 20' or 40'.
                                          So there are no stacking problems if 99% of your containers are 20' or
                                          40'. The IBCs on 45', 48' and 53' containers, however, are all precisely
                                          fitted to the 40' specifications. And that is what Harald Freudenreich
                                          and I tried to do.

                                          Let's talk about models. If the models are prototypical, then the pins
                                          are placed where the IBCs should be, and the pins from all the different
                                          manufacturers ought to mate exactly. The fact that they don't, just
                                          indicates that either the pins are located in a different place than the
                                          IBCs, or the dimensions are off. We (Z scale) are far from unique; for
                                          years I have heard modelers in other scales curse manufacturers whose
                                          products do not match others, when they should be standardized. In fact,
                                          some manufacturers are reputed to do this deliberately for some perceived
                                          competitive advantage.

                                          I'm sorry I offended you somehow. But I think the facts, as I explained
                                          above, are indisputable. If you want the boxes from a dozen different
                                          manufacturers to stack perfectly in the real world, they must adhere to
                                          strict standards. If you have some documentation to the contrary, please
                                          show us. Regardless, Harald and I will continue to strive to put out the
                                          best, most prototypical product possible, and we come pretty close IMO.

                                          CheerZ,
                                          -- Malcolm Z
                                          MCZ Models
                                        • mompey
                                          Hi Malcolm Thanks for your reply, my 2 x20 on a 40 was refering to them in a container yard, no I dont run them on the huskies this way, definate falling off
                                          Message 20 of 20 , May 5, 2009
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi Malcolm

                                            Thanks for your reply, my 2 x20' on a 40' was refering to them in a container yard, no I dont run them on the huskies this way, definate falling off issue there.

                                            Thanks for your reference to the book, I do have a couple of intermodal books, I do prefer to watch the 1:1 and use this as a guide to my z scale intermodal, but I will look for your reference lists.

                                            You obviously have done some research on containers, and I wasnt aware you made containers, mabee you should send me a couple and I will give an unbiased report to this group, seeing it created some heat?

                                            Thanks

                                            Mike..


                                            > The fact that you would even consider putting two 20's on top of a 40'
                                            > indicates that you should study up a little on intermodal. No one has
                                            > ever seen one or two 20's on top of a 40' container in the real world.
                                            > That's because only two IBCs on each 20' would be locked. Almost anything
                                            > other than the smoothest possible ride would encourage the 20's take
                                            > flight or damage the IBCs with strong torque.
                                            >
                                            > The Z_intermodal list would be a good place to start the learning
                                            > process. There are also plenty of good books out there now by Jeff Wilson
                                            > and Solomon, among others. In the past I have posted lists of reference
                                            > books to the Z_intermodal list, and they would be available in the
                                            > archives. Good hunting!
                                            >
                                            > CheerZ,
                                            > -- Malcolm Z
                                            > MCZ Models
                                            >
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