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Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Yahoo is Tracking Group Members

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  • Alan Cox
    ... Do you define malicious as charging you different amounts for the same product according to a mathematic model of your income I certainly prefer them to
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 3, 2009
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      > Second, 99.9% of "tracking" data is not used in a malicious way; it's

      Do you define malicious as "charging you different amounts for
      the same product according to a mathematic model of your income"

      I certainly prefer them to have poor or invalid data so they can't screw
      me.

      > Third, the concept of "big brother" should really only scare people
      > who have something to hide. True, on rare occasion some innocent Joe
      > gets his life turned inside out by mistake, but people stand a much
      > better chance of being killed in a car accident.

      Please cite the statistical data you are using. I don't believe you, and
      if you knew someone with the same name as someone on the US idiot no-fly
      list you'd have different views I think.

      > Fourth, based on observations I've made of some data-keepers,
      > our "secrets" are quite safe because they are in the hands of dimwits
      > who haven't a clue how to manage the data they have--not to mention
      > they have entirely too much data to manage in the first place. Safety
      > in numbers!

      Those are the people who lose copies of all their data and post it
      unencrypted on CD and lose them (like the UK government...)

      > I used to lay awake nights fretting over my charge card number
      > being "out there" for someone to misuse. But, I keep my compter very
      > well protected, and I'm extremely mindful of the sites where I make
      > transactions, and over time I've gotten over my fears. Beyond that,

      (some real statistics for you: more card fraud occurs by phone than
      internet - because the phone ordering involves a human paid minimum wage
      having all your details. Internet retailers go to huge lengths to keep
      card numbers and info from ever being in the hands of an employee.
      Companies that do electronic card handling are also subject to regular
      security audits and a strict security policy from the card companies).

      > if someone is "following" me as I surf the web, well, I cannot for
      > the life of me imagine how this information could be exploited
      > maliciously.

      The advertisers use it to build an exact profile of you to optimise their
      advertising but also in some cases to change the prices you are offered.
      Its the electronic equivalent of the rule about going to buy electronic
      goods or a car looking shabby, and never wearing a suit when you are
      going to haggle.

      Fraudsters and scammers don't generally have access to the same data sets
      (although obviously when there are leaks...). They often work off public
      data however - names of relatives and parents etc

      Find a person who runs a business
      Get the business address
      Look em up on facebook
      Build a map of their relatives
      Find their mothers family if at all possible
      Get the mothers maiden name

      At that point you've typically got enough to scam a bank account or a
      hire purchase (although companies have gotten a lot more careful).

      A recent and even more evil variant of this involves using a cheque to get
      a persons account details, picking up name and address information from
      them (easy if its an order you lifted) then transferring money to the
      persons account. A common bank authentication approach when you phone up
      and forget passwords etc will be

      "Name" blah
      "Date of birth" blah off facebook
      "Mothers maiden name" blah off facebook
      "Can you tell me one of your most recent transactions"
      "Certainly ...." (give details of xfer from another stolen acct
      into this one)

      Some of the scammers are very very clever and there is an ongoing battle
      between the banks, business world and scammers to invent new techniques.

      Alan
    • David K. Smith
      OK, then, I suppose I d better batten down the hatches and be prepared for the worst! Clearly I ve underestimated the hostile nature of the world. --David
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 3, 2009
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        OK, then, I suppose I'd better batten down the hatches and be
        prepared for the worst! Clearly I've underestimated the hostile
        nature of the world.

        --David

        http://jamesriverbranch.net/
        http://1-220.blogspot.com/

        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Alan Cox <alan@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Second, 99.9% of "tracking" data is not used in a malicious way;
        it's
        >
        > Do you define malicious as "charging you different amounts for
        > the same product according to a mathematic model of your income"
        >
        > I certainly prefer them to have poor or invalid data so they can't
        screw
        > me.
        >
        > > Third, the concept of "big brother" should really only scare
        people
        > > who have something to hide. True, on rare occasion some innocent
        Joe
        > > gets his life turned inside out by mistake, but people stand a
        much
        > > better chance of being killed in a car accident.
        >
        > Please cite the statistical data you are using. I don't believe
        you, and
        > if you knew someone with the same name as someone on the US idiot
        no-fly
        > list you'd have different views I think.
        >
        > > Fourth, based on observations I've made of some data-keepers,
        > > our "secrets" are quite safe because they are in the hands of
        dimwits
        > > who haven't a clue how to manage the data they have--not to
        mention
        > > they have entirely too much data to manage in the first place.
        Safety
        > > in numbers!
        >
        > Those are the people who lose copies of all their data and post it
        > unencrypted on CD and lose them (like the UK government...)
        >
        > > I used to lay awake nights fretting over my charge card number
        > > being "out there" for someone to misuse. But, I keep my compter
        very
        > > well protected, and I'm extremely mindful of the sites where I
        make
        > > transactions, and over time I've gotten over my fears. Beyond
        that,
        >
        > (some real statistics for you: more card fraud occurs by phone than
        > internet - because the phone ordering involves a human paid minimum
        wage
        > having all your details. Internet retailers go to huge lengths to
        keep
        > card numbers and info from ever being in the hands of an employee.
        > Companies that do electronic card handling are also subject to
        regular
        > security audits and a strict security policy from the card
        companies).
        >
        > > if someone is "following" me as I surf the web, well, I cannot
        for
        > > the life of me imagine how this information could be exploited
        > > maliciously.
        >
        > The advertisers use it to build an exact profile of you to optimise
        their
        > advertising but also in some cases to change the prices you are
        offered.
        > Its the electronic equivalent of the rule about going to buy
        electronic
        > goods or a car looking shabby, and never wearing a suit when you are
        > going to haggle.
        >
        > Fraudsters and scammers don't generally have access to the same
        data sets
        > (although obviously when there are leaks...). They often work off
        public
        > data however - names of relatives and parents etc
        >
        > Find a person who runs a business
        > Get the business address
        > Look em up on facebook
        > Build a map of their relatives
        > Find their mothers family if at all possible
        > Get the mothers maiden name
        >
        > At that point you've typically got enough to scam a bank account or
        a
        > hire purchase (although companies have gotten a lot more careful).
        >
        > A recent and even more evil variant of this involves using a cheque
        to get
        > a persons account details, picking up name and address information
        from
        > them (easy if its an order you lifted) then transferring money to
        the
        > persons account. A common bank authentication approach when you
        phone up
        > and forget passwords etc will be
        >
        > "Name" blah
        > "Date of birth" blah off facebook
        > "Mothers maiden name" blah off facebook
        > "Can you tell me one of your most recent transactions"
        > "Certainly ...." (give details of xfer from another stolen
        acct
        > into this one)
        >
        > Some of the scammers are very very clever and there is an ongoing
        battle
        > between the banks, business world and scammers to invent new
        techniques.
        >
        > Alan
        >
      • Larry Card
        ... I would prefer not to have the police search through my underwear drawer without a warrant, not because I have something to hide but simply because it s
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 3, 2009
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          > Third, the concept of "big brother" should really only scare people
          > who have something to hide.

          I would prefer not to have the police search through my underwear drawer without a warrant, not because I have something to hide but simply because it's none of their business what's in there. Likewise, the concept of big brother keeping an eye on me "just because" bothers me, not because I have something to hide but because it's none of their damn business what I'm doing or how I'm spending my time, as long as I am not bringing physical or financial harm to anyone through force or fraud.

          It also bothers me that not more people are bothered by that.

          > Fourth, based on observations I've made of some data-keepers,
          > our "secrets" are quite safe because they are in the hands of dimwits
          > who haven't a clue how to manage the data they have--not to mention
          > they have entirely too much data to manage in the first place. Safety
          > in numbers!

          Which is why you have those very same dimwits putting your personal information on laptops, which they then take home, which are then stolen out of their cars, and then your personal information belongs to some hacker or ID thief. I wouldn't call that exactly safe, and it's another good reason to be bothered by "big brother" watching you. FWIW, my personal information has had the opportunity to be lost in exactly that way, once through the US Navy and once through the VA, within a 3 year span.

          > if someone is "following" me as I surf the web, well, I cannot for
          > the life of me imagine how this information could be exploited
          > maliciously.

          But those who would exploit you maliciously have all sorts of ideas, and a very good imagination. Ten years ago we couldn't fathom the World Trade Center towers 1 and 2 being taken down by jet airliners...but someone else could. We couldn't imagine what someone would do with our information because we wouldn't be so inclined to be malicious with someone else's information. Others aren't so magnanamous.

          > surf, or what message boards I frequent, well, good luck to them
          > trying to figure out how to take advantage of that information.

          Luck has nothing to do with it.

          V/R
          Larry P. Card
          Franklinton NC

          _________________________________________________________________
          Life on your PC is safer, easier, and more enjoyable with Windows Vista®.
          http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032870/direct/01/

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Larry Card
          ... And sometimes even that doesn t work... V/R Larry P. Card Franklinton NC _________________________________________________________________ Life on your PC
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 3, 2009
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            > Now days you have to be dead to be forgotten.........nice combo eh?

            And sometimes even that doesn't work...
            V/R
            Larry P. Card
            Franklinton NC

            _________________________________________________________________
            Life on your PC is safer, easier, and more enjoyable with Windows Vista®.
            http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032870/direct/01/

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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