- Uwe - that is a tremendous amount of info in one e-mail. Much appreciated. (And I have had a heck of a time translating the German assembly instructions.Message 1 of 11 , Dec 2, 2008View SourceUwe - that is a tremendous amount of info in one e-mail. Much appreciated. (And I have had a heck of a time translating the German assembly instructions. You've decoded a lot for me. thanks again.)
--- On Tue, 12/2/08, Uwe Liermann <maillist@...> wrote:
> From: Uwe Liermann <maillist@...>
> Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Noch and the newcomer
> To: "Steve Piwnica" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 2:53 PM
> Hello Steve,
> > Noch Schwarzwald layout.
> well, that seems to be one of the big ones... ;-)
> > I notice the grade seems pretty steep, rising about 2
> inches over 40
> > inches in one place and even more in another. So
> will this be too
> > much?
> I take it that you have the track list for the layout
> available. But I
> don't know if you got an English one. I looked up the
> German PDF file
> for the layout:
> on page two you can find the statement from Noch about the
> use of
> Z-scale trains on those grades. There is written that you
> can run the
> mountain line with short trains up to 8 axles with out a
> problem. If
> you have cars with trucks and the train has more then 8
> axles (which
> means more then two cars) you will need two engines. If you
> have only
> 2 axle cars, then you will need two engines if you have 12
> axles in
> your train.
> > Plus now I'm seeing the bridges and tunnels are
> for N scale
> It is written that you should use the mentioned N-scale
> bridges also
> for Z-scale. Then those bridges would be to wide for my
> liking. Maybe
> with some kitbashing of Z-scale bridges you can get a
> better picture.
> It is also stated that the portals are designed for
> N-scale. But I
> think that you can use Z-scale portals for the tunnels with
> adaptive work too.
> > and the Marklin track plan costs $1,500! Is this
> kind of cost
> > normal for z scale?
> I haven't calculated the track list for costs, but I
> see two ways to
> cut at least some of the costs. First you can get track
> often for less
> money on E-Bay or other second hand places.
> Then you can use flex track for much of the layout.
> I've seen 17
> sections 8592. This is a length adjustable section from 100
> to 120 mm.
> If you go the flex track way at least for the straight
> parts you can
> save a lot of money.
> > Is MTL track cheaper and, if so, is MTL track
> and Marklin track
> > compatible?
> MTL roadbed track is cheaper as Maerklin track, and it is
> in footprint to the Maerklin sections as far as the
> sections are
> available. Unfortunately a lot of straight sections are not
> yet from MTL.
> Regarding the curves I see that there is no 8510 145mm
> radii section
> in the track plan. The 145mm radii is not available from
> MTL. Also not
> available (but it will come I'm sure) is the 8531 220mm
> radii 30°
> MTL and Maerklin track section can be connected, but it
> needs some
> adjusting since the rail height (code) is different. But
> this can be
> Under closer inspection of the track plan I would go with
> flex track
> anyway. This because I see that at some places the curves
> aren't fully
> perfect with those sectional tracks. If you look at the
> left side of
> the layout you see at the main level (the double track
> line) in the
> upper left that there is placed a 8520 a 8521 and a 8591
> curve for a
> 90° curve. But those sections only goes to 88°. The same
> goes for the
> upper right corner.
> 8520 / 8530 45°
> 8521 / 8531 30°
> 8591 13°
> In the lower left the curve is made from 4 x 8591 and 1 x
> 852(3)1 this
> calculates to 82°. If you take the lower right hand
> corner it also
> goes to 4x 8591 and one 852(3)1.
> Together those curves calculate to 340° to the full
> > What have I done?
> You got yourself a pretty interesting project...
> Z-scale: minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
> Yahoo! Groups Links
- Steve, I ll weigh in since I am building an even bigger layout for my first layout. Use MTL flex track wherever you can. Its easier to work with than MarklinMessage 2 of 11 , Dec 2, 2008View SourceSteve,
I'll weigh in since I am building an even bigger layout for my first
layout. Use MTL flex track wherever you can. Its easier to work
with than Marklin track and it is less expensive. Also, use Atlas N
gauge code 55 rail joiners to join the flex. The MTL joiners are
pretty good, much better than the Marklin ones, but the bigger rail
joiners are more secure, easier to see and install, and really help
keep the ends of the flex track in gauge, even on curves. Also,
unless you are planning on gluing down the track, which I don't
recommend, at least at first until you get the track just the way you
want it, use Walthers Code 73/83 track nails to hold down the flex.
They are longer and larger than the Marklin track nails, and look
better in my opinion. Also, its nice to be able to shift around the
track a little bit while under construction, then you can glue it
down when everything fits and looks right.
I am using Marklin switches with MTL flex, and its working just
fine. As far as cash goes, Z is not for the faint of heart, but
here's a few things you could try as well.
One, use manual switches instead of remotes, especially in areas that
are easy to reach or won't be used as much. The Marklin manual
switches work well and are about half the prices.
Two, leave off some sidings, yards or passing tracks until you need
them. If its on a main line, put in a Marklin 8500 sectional track
in place of the switch, and when you are ready to put in the switch
for the siding or yard, cut the 8500 in half with the handy motor
tool, pull it out and install the switch. Make sure and leave enough
space without ties on the ends of the track on either side of the
8500 so you can use the sliding rail joiner trick when you install
the switch. This way you can build the thing in sections, get some
trains running and then add on as you want and can afford to.
Third, cut your own cork roadbed. The Itty Bitty lines is great
stuff, but its real expensive. Find some thin sheet cork that is
used to build cork message boards and cut your own strips of
roadbed. All the roadbed on my 15' x 5' foot layout cost me about
$24 at a local homecenter called Menards here in Chicago, but you may
need to try an arts and crafts or office supply store out in
California. Cut the strips 24mm wide for straighter sections and 12
wide and use two strips for curves. A 2 foot metal ruler and a good
exacto type with a sharp #11 blade will work fine for cutting.
Feel free to email me if you have any specific questions about this.
If you want to see pictures of what I'm doing, I just posted some pic
of my adventure in Z Central Station under the "Building the
Trinimosa Branch" gallery. I've built layouts in N and G scales, and
Z is not really that much different, but there are some tricks that
can make life easier.
Good luck, Todd
- Ouch, that is a steep grade of 5%. Most of us stick to about 2%. If your consists are real short, the 5% MAY work, depending on the engine and cars. If youMessage 3 of 11 , Dec 4, 2008View SourceOuch, that is a steep grade of 5%. Most of us stick to about 2%. If
your consists are real short, the 5% MAY work, depending on the engine
and cars. If you use MTL flextrack, you should be able to cut your
track costs by about 60% or a LOT more. As for scenery, use foam and
plaster cloth and hydrocal and resin rock castings and you should be
able to build a real fine layout for several hundred dollars [in
addition to the track etc]. If you have just a little ability you can
scratch build some real fine bridges from plastic from Plastruct or
Evergreen. I did that and also built one from foam and old business
cards. Cost for the business card one wasn't zero, but getting pretty
close. There are a number of Z Scalers in the Bay Area and also
toward San Diego who may be able to help you out. Try the yahoo group
...BAZ_modules... for openers. I'm at the other end of the country
so can't help too much. ...don
--- In email@example.com, Steve Piwnica <stevepiw@...> wrote:
> Hello everyone - I'm basically new to z scale (dormant for the last
year) and pretty new to model railroading and I think I have just
gotten myself into a jam (being the overly ambitious guy that I am) by
going out and buying the Noch Schwarzwald layout.ï¿½ So I begin to
assemble the ramps and bridges and I notice the grade seems pretty
steep, rising about 2 inches over 40 inches in one place and even more
in another.ï¿½ So will this be too much?ï¿½ I read everywhere that 3% is
about the maximum.ï¿½ Or maybe I'll just be limited to short trains?
> Plus now I'm seeing the bridges and tunnels are for N scale and the
Marklin track plan costs $1,500!ï¿½ Is this kind of cost normal for z
scale?ï¿½ Is MTL track cheaper and, if so, is MTL track andï¿½Marklin
> What have I done?
> Thanks much,
> Steve Piwnica
> Orange County, CA
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]