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Weathered Stuff

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  • Jürg Rüedi
    Hi Friends It was time to update my website with many Items I ve received from Tom Mann in the past. He still has a bunch of my Engines and Cars so I think the
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 6, 2008
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      Hi Friends

      It was time to update my website with many Items I've received from Tom
      Mann in the past. He still has a bunch of my Engines and Cars so I
      think the website will grow more. BTW all the new Items are at the end
      of the website:

      http://www.rosetown.ch/News/Weathering.htm

      with best Regards
      Jürg

      http://www.rosetown.ch
    • David K. Smith
      ...and speaking of weathering, Tom Mann s book on weathering is nearing completion and will be going to press very soon. I ll post details on how to purchase
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 6, 2008
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        ...and speaking of weathering, Tom Mann's book on weathering is
        nearing completion and will be going to press very soon. I'll post
        details on how to purchase it when it goes on sale in a few weeks.

        --David

        http://jamesriverbranch.net/
        http://1-220.blogspot.com/

        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Jürg Rüedi <juerg.rueedi@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Friends
        >
        > It was time to update my website with many Items I've received from
        Tom
        > Mann in the past. He still has a bunch of my Engines and Cars so I
        > think the website will grow more. BTW all the new Items are at the
        end
        > of the website:
        >
        > http://www.rosetown.ch/News/Weathering.htm
        >
        > with best Regards
        > Jürg
        >
        > http://www.rosetown.ch
        >
      • Jürg Rüedi
        Thanks for the hint David. Tom told me that it s close to the release. best Jürg http://www.rosetown.ch ... from ... I ... the
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 6, 2008
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          Thanks for the hint David. Tom told me that it's close to the release.

          best
          Jürg

          http://www.rosetown.ch


          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "David K. Smith" <david@...> wrote:
          >
          > ...and speaking of weathering, Tom Mann's book on weathering is
          > nearing completion and will be going to press very soon. I'll post
          > details on how to purchase it when it goes on sale in a few weeks.
          >
          > --David
          >
          > http://jamesriverbranch.net/
          > http://1-220.blogspot.com/
          >
          > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Jürg Rüedi <juerg.rueedi@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Friends
          > >
          > > It was time to update my website with many Items I've received
          from
          > Tom
          > > Mann in the past. He still has a bunch of my Engines and Cars so
          I
          > > think the website will grow more. BTW all the new Items are at
          the
          > end
          > > of the website:
          > >
          > > http://www.rosetown.ch/News/Weathering.htm
          > >
          > > with best Regards
          > > Jürg
          > >
          > > http://www.rosetown.ch
          > >
          >
        • Ken Armstrong
          Just visited Jurg s Rosetown site and photos of weathered equipment. Truly beautiful work, but I always cringe just a little to see fine models dirtied up.
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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            Just visited Jurg's Rosetown site and photos of weathered equipment.
            Truly beautiful work, but I always cringe just a little to see fine
            models dirtied up. However it is much more realistic, and we really
            don't weather and bash up our models enough for true realism. While I am
            not in any way an expert, I would suggest a few ways to "fine tune" the
            weathering which seemed a bit uniform to my eye.

            - Just by virtue of luck and the different areas where they work, some
            identical units will have less (or more) dirt and damage. If usually run
            on a seaside track an engine will show more rust that if it runs mainly
            through the desert which would make it dustier. Desert dust is tan while
            dust in coal country is gray and soot from industrial areas is black.
            - Some equipment in a consist will be newer or recently shopped and thus
            stand out as shinier and cleaner.
            - An occasional piece will show an idiosyncratic area of damage where
            the lubricant leaked or the engine got sprayed with brush killer, etc.
            - Here in the east we have more rainfall and in the Northeast more
            acidic rain so there would be more streaking from running water than on
            these models which are primarily western. The Milwaukee hoppers which
            might be running on the more easterly routes do show this effect nicely.
            - A few pieces, mainly engines, will have minor repairs that been
            ignored or, especially on smaller lines, non-standard repairs. Or even
            makeshift/ temporary fixes. Like the odd type horn or engine door that
            was wired shut. Or a paint patch that is a slightly different color.
            - The people who loaded the hoppers were obviously neat freaks as there
            is no mess around the loading hatches. This damage is especially obvious
            when the material is liquid or somewhat corrosive such as seen with
            cement or potash.

            Just a few ideas to push the envelope. Mother Nature isn't very neat,
            entropy is continually increasing, and we usually add to the mess before
            we get around to cleaning it up. It really is about adding a history or
            a story to the model. "A dimension beyond sight and sound..."

            Ken A.
          • Jim O'Connell
            Hello Ken, We don t see the word entropy around this site much. Good one! Your post was very good and should be a reminder to us all that a good modeler will
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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              Hello Ken, We don't see the word entropy around this site much. Good
              one! Your post was very good and should be a reminder to us all that a
              good modeler will model for his/her region with all it's nuances. Jurg,
              on the other hand is primarily a collector so with entropy in mind I
              suppose he is allowed to weather his cars for all places. He does like
              arid scenes for his diorama and most of his weathering fits. Still
              with entropy in mind. All weathering and regions should be allowed to
              mixed because rolling stock eventually gets around to different
              territories. Somewhere, sometime, somehow, even that dingy black/gray
              coal hopper will end up here in SoCal. So basically, there is no right
              or wrong with weathering. At any given time the "scene" will be
              correct. Cheers, Jim CCRR
            • Don A
              Come-on guys. I never could keep entropy and enthalpy straight in my mind 50 years ago. I thought it was gone..and now it comes back to haunt me again.
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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                Come-on guys. I never could keep entropy and enthalpy straight in my
                mind 50 years ago. I thought it was gone..and now it comes back to
                haunt me again. Dang.... I thought this site was for little trains
                and little words. None of this high faluten stuff.

                ...don

                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Jim O'Connell" <jimo.crcmnvgtr@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Hello Ken, We don't see the word entropy around this site much. Good
                > one! Your post was very good and should be a reminder to us all that a
                > good modeler will model for his/her region with all it's nuances. Jurg,
                > on the other hand is primarily a collector so with entropy in mind I
                > suppose he is allowed to weather his cars for all places. He does like
                > arid scenes for his diorama and most of his weathering fits. Still
                > with entropy in mind. All weathering and regions should be allowed to
                > mixed because rolling stock eventually gets around to different
                > territories. Somewhere, sometime, somehow, even that dingy black/gray
                > coal hopper will end up here in SoCal. So basically, there is no right
                > or wrong with weathering. At any given time the "scene" will be
                > correct. Cheers, Jim CCRR
                >
              • kenarm22
                OK, OK.. Murphy s Law always applies and the world always tends to become gray and fuzzy unless we interfere. And there is a prototype for everything so
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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                  OK, OK..
                  Murphy's Law always applies and the world always tends to become gray
                  and fuzzy unless we interfere.
                  And there is a prototype for everything so whatever we want to do is
                  probably correct somewhere or sometime. And who really cares if it
                  looks nice and/or is interesting.
                  I don't remember what enthalpy is either. And I promise (to try) to
                  avoid them high falutin words in the future.
                  Ken


                  >
                  > Come-on guys. I never could keep entropy and enthalpy straight in my
                  > None of this high faluten stuff.
                  >
                  > .
                • Jim O'Connell
                  Don and Ken, I very vaguely remember that enthalpy has something to do with HOT AIR ! Cheers, Jim CCRR
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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                    Don and Ken, I very vaguely remember that enthalpy has something to do
                    with 'HOT AIR'! Cheers, Jim CCRR
                  • Loren
                    Ken, If I hadn t visited the Mellow Mike site... http://www.mellowmike.com/ that Juerg posted, I would have at first thought you were being a bit too
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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                      Ken,

                      If I hadn't visited the Mellow Mike site... http://www.mellowmike.com/
                      that Juerg posted, I would have at first thought you were being a bit too
                      particular about weathering. After visiting Mike's site and seeing what he
                      does, I have to fully agree with you.
                      You say we are pushing the enveolpe, and since that is true, after thinking
                      about what you said, your comments on weathering seem very insightfull and
                      helpfull.

                      Someday, I hope to totally 'grunge up" my locos and rolling stock, what
                      little I have of it. Looking around I find that the world is dirty and
                      messy in quite a few places and Z should be no exception. After all, how
                      many of us can afford to go out and buy brand new rolling stock? With the
                      help of weathering I'll buy my stock and locos at the second hand store and
                      definitely look the part.

                      Thanks for your tips,
                      Loren

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Ken Armstrong" <kenarm322@...>
                      To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:11 AM
                      Subject: [Z_Scale] Weathered Stuff


                      > Just visited Jurg's Rosetown site and photos of weathered equipment.
                      > Truly beautiful work, but I always cringe just a little to see fine
                      > models dirtied up. However it is much more realistic, and we really
                      > don't weather and bash up our models enough for true realism. While I am
                      > not in any way an expert, I would suggest a few ways to "fine tune" the
                      > weathering which seemed a bit uniform to my eye.
                      >
                      > - Just by virtue of luck and the different areas where they work, some
                      > identical units will have less (or more) dirt and damage. If usually run
                      > on a seaside track an engine will show more rust that if it runs mainly
                      > through the desert which would make it dustier. Desert dust is tan while
                      > dust in coal country is gray and soot from industrial areas is black.
                      > - Some equipment in a consist will be newer or recently shopped and thus
                      > stand out as shinier and cleaner.
                      > - An occasional piece will show an idiosyncratic area of damage where
                      > the lubricant leaked or the engine got sprayed with brush killer, etc.
                      > - Here in the east we have more rainfall and in the Northeast more
                      > acidic rain so there would be more streaking from running water than on
                      > these models which are primarily western. The Milwaukee hoppers which
                      > might be running on the more easterly routes do show this effect nicely.
                      > - A few pieces, mainly engines, will have minor repairs that been
                      > ignored or, especially on smaller lines, non-standard repairs. Or even
                      > makeshift/ temporary fixes. Like the odd type horn or engine door that
                      > was wired shut. Or a paint patch that is a slightly different color.
                      > - The people who loaded the hoppers were obviously neat freaks as there
                      > is no mess around the loading hatches. This damage is especially obvious
                      > when the material is liquid or somewhat corrosive such as seen with
                      > cement or potash.
                      >
                      > Just a few ideas to push the envelope. Mother Nature isn't very neat,
                      > entropy is continually increasing, and we usually add to the mess before
                      > we get around to cleaning it up. It really is about adding a history or
                      > a story to the model. "A dimension beyond sight and sound..."
                      >
                      > Ken A.
                    • Loren
                      ... From: Don A To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:48 AM Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff ... Don, I
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Don A" <zbarr474@...>
                        To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:48 AM
                        Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff


                        > Come-on guys. I never could keep entropy and enthalpy straight in my
                        > mind 50 years ago. I thought it was gone..and now it comes back to
                        > haunt me again. Dang.... I thought this site was for little trains
                        > and little words. None of this high faluten stuff.
                        >
                        > ...don

                        Don,
                        I always thought entropy was some sort of rare root you ate while in the out
                        back of Australia.......:o) No matter though, as long as we like the looks
                        of our choo choos.
                        When I first started in Z in 2004, I liked the idea of everything looking
                        "squeaky clean". 'No dirt on my locos and rolling stock' was my
                        mantra.........hey, I used a big word, (for me). Well, after reading,
                        watching and observing the way things really are, I have totally changed my
                        mind about weathering.

                        I recall watching Robert Ray do some weathering while at the Cow Palace a
                        couple of years ago. I was a bit uneasy at first, but slowly began to
                        realize that Robert was making things look 'real'. Now every time I think
                        of weathering, I see in my mind's eye that really dirty, rusty, BEAUTIFUL,
                        GN car I think it was, that he 'aged' beyond belief. I love it and compare
                        everything to that image.

                        So now, with the exception of ARR, (I don't want to irk Karin) I love to see
                        dirt, grime, soot, grease, rust, corrosion, graffiti, and whatever else
                        there might be that makes Z look 'real'

                        Loren
                      • John Duino
                        Just cuz I m an anal engineer and an aerodynamicist who has had to actually understand and use these terms in all their theoretical and practical
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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                          Just cuz I'm an anal engineer and an aerodynamicist who has had to
                          actually understand and use these terms in all their theoretical and
                          practical PDE-math-based glory...as best I can in simplified layman's
                          words...

                          enthalpy - for a given system/chunk of air, it's the thermodynamic
                          potential or potential thermal 'work' you can get out of it. You can kind
                          of think of it as 'heat energy'.

                          entropy - think of it as the randomness or chaos of the molecules in a
                          system/chunk of air. Entropy never decreases, so you can think of things
                          getting more chaotic as time progresses. (To be confusing, some people
                          think of it in terms of how far along a process is toward equilibrium,
                          where Entropy is maximum. So how is equilibrium the most chaotic?
                          Simple...everything is the most mixed up :)

                          So, as my aerothermo professor explained it: the stress of trying to
                          understand it increases the enthalpy around us (heat energy), and the
                          longer we try to understand it the entropy keeps rising (more chaos, more
                          mixed up).


                          >> Come-on guys. I never could keep entropy and enthalpy straight in my
                          >> None of this high faluten stuff.
                        • Jim O'Connell
                          John, That s exactly what I said! Cheers, Jim CCRR ... layman s ... can kind ... in a ... things ... people ... equilibrium, ... the ... chaos, more ... in my
                          Message 12 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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                            John, That's exactly what I said! Cheers, Jim CCRR

                            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "John Duino" <jduino@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Just cuz I'm an anal engineer and an aerodynamicist who has had to
                            > actually understand and use these terms in all their theoretical and
                            > practical PDE-math-based glory...as best I can in simplified
                            layman's
                            > words...
                            >
                            > enthalpy - for a given system/chunk of air, it's the thermodynamic
                            > potential or potential thermal 'work' you can get out of it. You
                            can kind
                            > of think of it as 'heat energy'.
                            >
                            > entropy - think of it as the randomness or chaos of the molecules
                            in a
                            > system/chunk of air. Entropy never decreases, so you can think of
                            things
                            > getting more chaotic as time progresses. (To be confusing, some
                            people
                            > think of it in terms of how far along a process is toward
                            equilibrium,
                            > where Entropy is maximum. So how is equilibrium the most chaotic?
                            > Simple...everything is the most mixed up :)
                            >
                            > So, as my aerothermo professor explained it: the stress of trying to
                            > understand it increases the enthalpy around us (heat energy), and
                            the
                            > longer we try to understand it the entropy keeps rising (more
                            chaos, more
                            > mixed up).
                            >
                            >
                            > >> Come-on guys. I never could keep entropy and enthalpy straight
                            in my
                            > >> None of this high faluten stuff.
                            >
                          • Loren
                            John, Say what? ... From: John Duino To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re:
                            Message 13 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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                              John,
                              Say what?

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "John Duino" <jduino@...>
                              To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:50 AM
                              Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff


                              > Just cuz I'm an anal engineer and an aerodynamicist who has had to
                              > actually understand and use these terms in all their theoretical and
                              > practical PDE-math-based glory...as best I can in simplified layman's
                              > words...
                              >
                              > enthalpy - for a given system/chunk of air, it's the thermodynamic
                              > potential or potential thermal 'work' you can get out of it. You can kind
                              > of think of it as 'heat energy'.
                              >
                              > entropy - think of it as the randomness or chaos of the molecules in a
                              > system/chunk of air. Entropy never decreases, so you can think of things
                              > getting more chaotic as time progresses. (To be confusing, some people
                              > think of it in terms of how far along a process is toward equilibrium,
                              > where Entropy is maximum. So how is equilibrium the most chaotic?
                              > Simple...everything is the most mixed up :)
                              >
                              > So, as my aerothermo professor explained it: the stress of trying to
                              > understand it increases the enthalpy around us (heat energy), and the
                              > longer we try to understand it the entropy keeps rising (more chaos, more
                              > mixed up).
                            • David George
                              What I want to know ,,,,is it potato ,,or ,,potatoe,,? Mister Dave ... From: Loren To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:47 PM Subject:
                              Message 14 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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                                What I want to know ,,,,is it potato ,,or ,,potatoe,,?
                                Mister Dave
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Loren
                                To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:47 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff


                                John,
                                Say what?

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "John Duino" <jduino@...>
                                To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:50 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                > Just cuz I'm an anal engineer and an aerodynamicist who has had to
                                > actually understand and use these terms in all their theoretical and
                                > practical PDE-math-based glory...as best I can in simplified layman's
                                > words...
                                >
                                > enthalpy - for a given system/chunk of air, it's the thermodynamic
                                > potential or potential thermal 'work' you can get out of it. You can kind
                                > of think of it as 'heat energy'.
                                >
                                > entropy - think of it as the randomness or chaos of the molecules in a
                                > system/chunk of air. Entropy never decreases, so you can think of things
                                > getting more chaotic as time progresses. (To be confusing, some people
                                > think of it in terms of how far along a process is toward equilibrium,
                                > where Entropy is maximum. So how is equilibrium the most chaotic?
                                > Simple...everything is the most mixed up :)
                                >
                                > So, as my aerothermo professor explained it: the stress of trying to
                                > understand it increases the enthalpy around us (heat energy), and the
                                > longer we try to understand it the entropy keeps rising (more chaos, more
                                > mixed up).





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • John Duino
                                No, that s Loren...
                                Message 15 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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                                  No, that's Loren...


                                  > What I want to know ,,,,is it potato ,,or ,,potatoe,,?
                                  > Mister Dave
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: Loren
                                  > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:47 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > John,
                                  > Say what?
                                • Loren
                                  I prefer French frys myself........doh ! ... From: David George To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I prefer French frys myself........doh !

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "David George" <dgeorge24619@...>
                                    To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:03 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff


                                    > What I want to know ,,,,is it potato ,,or ,,potatoe,,?
                                    > Mister Dave
                                  • Jim O'Connell
                                    Loren, Actually, the French call them pommes frites. Cheers, Jim CCRR
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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                                      Loren, Actually, the French call them pommes frites. Cheers, Jim CCRR

                                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I prefer French frys myself........doh !
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: "David George" <dgeorge24619@...>
                                      > To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:03 PM
                                      > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > What I want to know ,,,,is it potato ,,or ,,potatoe,,?
                                      > > Mister Dave
                                      >
                                    • M & J Piersdorff
                                      I think Dan Quayle had that problem, too, Mister Dave...perhaps he has it sorted out by now...you could ask him. Michael ... From: David George To:
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I think Dan Quayle had that problem, too, Mister Dave...perhaps he has it sorted out by now...you could ask him.

                                        Michael

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: David George
                                        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:03 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff


                                        What I want to know ,,,,is it potato ,,or ,,potatoe,,?
                                        Mister Dave
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Loren
                                        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:47 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                        John,
                                        Say what?

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "John Duino" <jduino@...>
                                        To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:50 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                        > Just cuz I'm an anal engineer and an aerodynamicist who has had to
                                        > actually understand and use these terms in all their theoretical and
                                        > practical PDE-math-based glory...as best I can in simplified layman's
                                        > words...
                                        >
                                        > enthalpy - for a given system/chunk of air, it's the thermodynamic
                                        > potential or potential thermal 'work' you can get out of it. You can kind
                                        > of think of it as 'heat energy'.
                                        >
                                        > entropy - think of it as the randomness or chaos of the molecules in a
                                        > system/chunk of air. Entropy never decreases, so you can think of things
                                        > getting more chaotic as time progresses. (To be confusing, some people
                                        > think of it in terms of how far along a process is toward equilibrium,
                                        > where Entropy is maximum. So how is equilibrium the most chaotic?
                                        > Simple...everything is the most mixed up :)
                                        >
                                        > So, as my aerothermo professor explained it: the stress of trying to
                                        > understand it increases the enthalpy around us (heat energy), and the
                                        > longer we try to understand it the entropy keeps rising (more chaos, more
                                        > mixed up).

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                                      • John Mui
                                        Jimbo, tha reminds me of the time I was in Montreal. We had some delicious frites there. John ... From: Jim O Connell To:
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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                                          Jimbo, tha reminds me of the time I was in Montreal. We had some delicious
                                          frites there.

                                          John
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "Jim O'Connell" <jimo.crcmnvgtr@...>
                                          To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:21 PM
                                          Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff


                                          > Loren, Actually, the French call them pommes frites. Cheers, Jim CCRR
                                          >
                                          > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
                                          >>
                                          >> I prefer French frys myself........doh !
                                          >>
                                          >> ----- Original Message -----
                                          >> From: "David George" <dgeorge24619@...>
                                          >> To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                          >> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:03 PM
                                          >> Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> > What I want to know ,,,,is it potato ,,or ,,potatoe,,?
                                          >> > Mister Dave
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          > Z-scale: minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • David George
                                          Actually,,Dan Q. had it correct,according to East Texas English. We have a restaurant,here in Houston, named The Potatoe Patch,,, so there yah go,,pardner.
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
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                                            Actually,,Dan Q. had it correct,according to East Texas English.
                                            We have a restaurant,here in Houston, named The Potatoe Patch,,, so there yah go,,pardner.
                                            Cordially,
                                            Mister Dave
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: M & J Piersdorff
                                            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:46 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff


                                            I think Dan Quayle had that problem, too, Mister Dave...perhaps he has it sorted out by now...you could ask him.

                                            Michael

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: David George
                                            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:03 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                            What I want to know ,,,,is it potato ,,or ,,potatoe,,?
                                            Mister Dave
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Loren
                                            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:47 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                            John,
                                            Say what?

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "John Duino" <jduino@...>
                                            To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:50 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                            > Just cuz I'm an anal engineer and an aerodynamicist who has had to
                                            > actually understand and use these terms in all their theoretical and
                                            > practical PDE-math-based glory...as best I can in simplified layman's
                                            > words...
                                            >
                                            > enthalpy - for a given system/chunk of air, it's the thermodynamic
                                            > potential or potential thermal 'work' you can get out of it. You can kind
                                            > of think of it as 'heat energy'.
                                            >
                                            > entropy - think of it as the randomness or chaos of the molecules in a
                                            > system/chunk of air. Entropy never decreases, so you can think of things
                                            > getting more chaotic as time progresses. (To be confusing, some people
                                            > think of it in terms of how far along a process is toward equilibrium,
                                            > where Entropy is maximum. So how is equilibrium the most chaotic?
                                            > Simple...everything is the most mixed up :)
                                            >
                                            > So, as my aerothermo professor explained it: the stress of trying to
                                            > understand it increases the enthalpy around us (heat energy), and the
                                            > longer we try to understand it the entropy keeps rising (more chaos, more
                                            > mixed up).

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                          • M & J Piersdorff
                                            Reading the reviews about the Potatoe Patch, a place where the rolls are throw d at you, and which bills itself on its web-site as a unique dinning
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Reading the reviews about the Potatoe Patch, a place where the rolls are "throw'd" at you, and which bills itself on its web-site as a unique dinning experience (does that mean it's really loud?), I would say it's probably not an authoritative source for anybody's English, least of all East Texas's.

                                              Michael


                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: David George
                                              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 12:32 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff


                                              Actually,,Dan Q. had it correct,according to East Texas English.
                                              We have a restaurant,here in Houston, named The Potatoe Patch,,, so there yah go,,pardner.
                                              Cordially,
                                              Mister Dave
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: M & J Piersdorff
                                              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:46 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                              I think Dan Quayle had that problem, too, Mister Dave...perhaps he has it sorted out by now...you could ask him.

                                              Michael

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: David George
                                              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:03 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                              What I want to know ,,,,is it potato ,,or ,,potatoe,,?
                                              Mister Dave
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Loren
                                              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:47 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                              John,
                                              Say what?

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "John Duino" <jduino@...>
                                              To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:50 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                              > Just cuz I'm an anal engineer and an aerodynamicist who has had to
                                              > actually understand and use these terms in all their theoretical and
                                              > practical PDE-math-based glory...as best I can in simplified layman's
                                              > words...
                                              >
                                              > enthalpy - for a given system/chunk of air, it's the thermodynamic
                                              > potential or potential thermal 'work' you can get out of it. You can kind
                                              > of think of it as 'heat energy'.
                                              >
                                              > entropy - think of it as the randomness or chaos of the molecules in a
                                              > system/chunk of air. Entropy never decreases, so you can think of things
                                              > getting more chaotic as time progresses. (To be confusing, some people
                                              > think of it in terms of how far along a process is toward equilibrium,
                                              > where Entropy is maximum. So how is equilibrium the most chaotic?
                                              > Simple...everything is the most mixed up :)
                                              >
                                              > So, as my aerothermo professor explained it: the stress of trying to
                                              > understand it increases the enthalpy around us (heat energy), and the
                                              > longer we try to understand it the entropy keeps rising (more chaos, more
                                              > mixed up).

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                              ----------------------------------------------------------

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                                              Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
                                              Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1712 - Release Date: 10/7/2008 9:41 AM

                                              ----------

                                              ----------

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                                              Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
                                              Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1712 - Release Date: 10/7/2008 9:41 AM

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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Loren
                                              Well, I don t care what they call them, just as long as they are tasty......see, I m very easy to please...... Loren ... From: Jim O Connell
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Oct 7, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Well, I don't care what they call them, just as long as they are
                                                tasty......see, I'm very easy to please......
                                                Loren

                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "Jim O'Connell" <jimo.crcmnvgtr@...>
                                                To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:21 PM
                                                Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff


                                                > Loren, Actually, the French call them pommes frites. Cheers, Jim CCRR
                                              • David George
                                                Ahh,,,,Another intelecktchul heard from. Cordially, Mister Dave ... From: M & J Piersdorff To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 12:54
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Oct 8, 2008
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                                                  Ahh,,,,Another intelecktchul heard from.
                                                  Cordially,
                                                  Mister Dave
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: M & J Piersdorff
                                                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 12:54 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff


                                                  Reading the reviews about the Potatoe Patch, a place where the rolls are "throw'd" at you, and which bills itself on its web-site as a unique dinning experience (does that mean it's really loud?), I would say it's probably not an authoritative source for anybody's English, least of all East Texas's.

                                                  Michael

                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: David George
                                                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 12:32 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                                  Actually,,Dan Q. had it correct,according to East Texas English.
                                                  We have a restaurant,here in Houston, named The Potatoe Patch,,, so there yah go,,pardner.
                                                  Cordially,
                                                  Mister Dave
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: M & J Piersdorff
                                                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:46 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                                  I think Dan Quayle had that problem, too, Mister Dave...perhaps he has it sorted out by now...you could ask him.

                                                  Michael

                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: David George
                                                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:03 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                                  What I want to know ,,,,is it potato ,,or ,,potatoe,,?
                                                  Mister Dave
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: Loren
                                                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:47 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                                  John,
                                                  Say what?

                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: "John Duino" <jduino@...>
                                                  To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:50 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Weathered Stuff

                                                  > Just cuz I'm an anal engineer and an aerodynamicist who has had to
                                                  > actually understand and use these terms in all their theoretical and
                                                  > practical PDE-math-based glory...as best I can in simplified layman's
                                                  > words...
                                                  >
                                                  > enthalpy - for a given system/chunk of air, it's the thermodynamic
                                                  > potential or potential thermal 'work' you can get out of it. You can kind
                                                  > of think of it as 'heat energy'.
                                                  >
                                                  > entropy - think of it as the randomness or chaos of the molecules in a
                                                  > system/chunk of air. Entropy never decreases, so you can think of things
                                                  > getting more chaotic as time progresses. (To be confusing, some people
                                                  > think of it in terms of how far along a process is toward equilibrium,
                                                  > where Entropy is maximum. So how is equilibrium the most chaotic?
                                                  > Simple...everything is the most mixed up :)
                                                  >
                                                  > So, as my aerothermo professor explained it: the stress of trying to
                                                  > understand it increases the enthalpy around us (heat energy), and the
                                                  > longer we try to understand it the entropy keeps rising (more chaos, more
                                                  > mixed up).

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                  ----------------------------------------------------------

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                                                  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
                                                  Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1712 - Release Date: 10/7/2008 9:41 AM

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                                                  ----------

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                                                  Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1712 - Release Date: 10/7/2008 9:41 AM

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                                                  Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1713 - Release Date: 10/7/2008 6:40 PM

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