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Wheel/coupler combinations

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  • Malcolm Cleaveland
    I d like to start a dialog. There are basically 3 choices for the N. American modeler: 1. Micro-Trains (MTL) truck/coupler combinations, plastic wheels
    Message 1 of 16 , May 2, 2008
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      I'd like to start a dialog. There are basically 3 choices for the N.
      American modeler:

      1. Micro-Trains (MTL) truck/coupler combinations, plastic wheels available
      with attached coupler or truck and coupler available separately.

      2. Marklin truck/coupler combination, metal wheels, coupler is huge, ugly,
      and unprototypical. Even worse, it prevents Marklin from making accurate
      models of N. American rolling stock. (Trucks have to be positioned
      unrealistically, making other portions of the models out of position.)

      3. AZL truck/coupler combination, metal wheels, coupler is fixed, requires
      manipulation by the operator for coupling/uncoupling.

      The first option is the most flexible and prototypical, but sticks you
      with plastic wheelsets. The second and third options offer metal wheels,
      but have significant drawbacks.

      The AZL wheelsets come with fixed couplers that make operation next to
      impossible, as opposed to just watching the trains go round and round.

      Has anyone tried cutting the AZL couplers off the wheelsets? How easy
      is that? Then you would perforce have to go to body-mount couplers, not
      overly difficult, but a source of aggravation and an extra expense in a
      hobby that is already not the cheapest.

      CheerZ,
      -- Malcolm Z
    • George Evans
      Again i am new to this hobby. What is wrong with plastic wheels? ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 16 , May 2, 2008
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        Again i am new to this hobby. What is wrong with plastic wheels?
        On May 2, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Malcolm Cleaveland wrote:

        > I'd like to start a dialog. There are basically 3 choices for the N.
        > American modeler:
        >
        > 1. Micro-Trains (MTL) truck/coupler combinations, plastic wheels
        > available
        > with attached coupler or truck and coupler available separately.
        >
        > 2. Marklin truck/coupler combination, metal wheels, coupler is
        > huge, ugly,
        > and unprototypical. Even worse, it prevents Marklin from making
        > accurate
        > models of N. American rolling stock. (Trucks have to be positioned
        > unrealistically, making other portions of the models out of position.)
        >
        > 3. AZL truck/coupler combination, metal wheels, coupler is fixed,
        > requires
        > manipulation by the operator for coupling/uncoupling.
        >
        > The first option is the most flexible and prototypical, but sticks you
        > with plastic wheelsets. The second and third options offer metal
        > wheels,
        > but have significant drawbacks.
        >
        > The AZL wheelsets come with fixed couplers that make operation next to
        > impossible, as opposed to just watching the trains go round and round.
        >
        > Has anyone tried cutting the AZL couplers off the wheelsets? How easy
        > is that? Then you would perforce have to go to body-mount couplers,
        > not
        > overly difficult, but a source of aggravation and an extra expense
        > in a
        > hobby that is already not the cheapest.
        >
        > CheerZ,
        > -- Malcolm Z
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Alan Cox
        On Fri, 2 May 2008 10:38:10 -0400 ... They don t run on the track as well as metal ones, they also gradually leave tiny amounts of plastic residue on the track
        Message 3 of 16 , May 2, 2008
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          On Fri, 2 May 2008 10:38:10 -0400
          George Evans <gevans@...> wrote:

          > Again i am new to this hobby. What is wrong with plastic wheels?

          They don't run on the track as well as metal ones, they also gradually
          leave tiny amounts of plastic residue on the track which is a real pita to
          remove.

          Its a big deal if run a large exhibition layout where the trains run many
          miles (real not scale) in a day but hardly a big problem for a small
          setup.

          Alan
        • Uwe Liermann
          Hello George, ... if you want to install lights in a car as you can see here: http://www.passmann.com/ or for additional power pick up you need metal wheels.
          Message 4 of 16 , May 2, 2008
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            Hello George,

            > What is wrong with plastic wheels?

            if you want to install lights in a car as you can see here:

            http://www.passmann.com/

            or for additional power pick up you need metal wheels.

            --
            GreetingZ
            Uwe
          • Allan Borg
            I don t find that plastic wheels leave deposits on the track so much as the track leaving metal deposits on the wheels. That is usually as a result of runnung
            Message 5 of 16 , May 2, 2008
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              I don't find that plastic wheels leave deposits on the track so much as
              the track leaving metal deposits on the wheels. That is usually as a
              result of runnung a bright boy over the rails which leaves a little
              metal powder on the railheads unless you go over it with a swab of
              alcohol.
              Allan Borg
              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Alan Cox <alan@...> wrote:
              >
              > On Fri, 2 May 2008 10:38:10 -0400
              > George Evans <gevans@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Again i am new to this hobby. What is wrong with plastic wheels?
              >
              > They don't run on the track as well as metal ones, they also gradually
              > leave tiny amounts of plastic residue on the track which is a real
              pita to
              > remove.
              >
              > Its a big deal if run a large exhibition layout where the trains run
              many
              > miles (real not scale) in a day but hardly a big problem for a small
              > setup.
              >
              > Alan
              >
            • John Mui
              Malcom, there is a four way. I change the put the guts of a MTL coupler into a AZL truck. I describe the how to in Traiboard. I made a video of the automatic
              Message 6 of 16 , May 2, 2008
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                Malcom, there is a four way. I change the put the guts of a MTL coupler into
                a AZL truck. I describe the how to in Traiboard. I made a video of the
                automatic uncoupling. The train is a little jumpy, because I have a hard
                time controlling the train and taking video at the same time. The CSX hopper
                has the converted truck.

                (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvyAJ1i0wa0)

                John
              • Glen Chenier
                ... pita to ... many ... And the plastic wheel residue tends to build up in clumps at rail joints. Don t know why, maybe the residue collected on the wheel
                Message 7 of 16 , May 2, 2008
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                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Alan Cox <alan@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On Fri, 2 May 2008 10:38:10 -0400
                  > George Evans <gevans@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Again i am new to this hobby. What is wrong with plastic wheels?
                  >
                  > They don't run on the track as well as metal ones, they also gradually
                  > leave tiny amounts of plastic residue on the track which is a real
                  pita to
                  > remove.
                  >
                  > Its a big deal if run a large exhibition layout where the trains run
                  many
                  > miles (real not scale) in a day but hardly a big problem for a small
                  > setup.
                  >
                  > Alan
                  >

                  And the plastic wheel residue tends to build up in clumps at rail
                  joints. Don't know why, maybe the residue collected on the wheel
                  treads gets jolted off at the joint bump. This happens in all scales,
                  metal vs plastic is an often discussed topic on many forums.

                  Has anyone ever compared plastic buildup with and without Wahl Oil on
                  the rails? The plastic wears most on curves, the fixed axle and
                  unequal rail circumference means that the wheels are always scraping on
                  the rail slightly rather than completely free-rolling, even with the
                  angled tread profile. A Wahl Oil film may (or may not) reduce plastic
                  wear due to rail scraping.

                  Would be an interesting experiment...
                • David K. Smith
                  Alan-- In some circles, the Wahl Clipper oil subject will raise some heated arguments. Some swear by it. Others swear over it. A buddy of mine and I have been
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 2, 2008
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                    Alan--

                    In some circles, the Wahl Clipper oil subject will raise some heated
                    arguments. Some swear by it. Others swear over it. A buddy of mine
                    and I have been running his (huge) N scale layout together for over
                    35 years. He tried the Wahl oil once, and it took months to recover
                    from the disaster. A tiny amount of oil produced an incredible mess
                    that spread everywhere, even to areas where the oil was not applied.
                    It knocked the heck out of the pulling power of every locomotive (it
                    will destroy most traction tires, too), and it became a magnet for
                    dust and dirt.

                    After decades of running trains for long periods of time, we have
                    never seen any noticable amounts of wear on plastic wheels. Delrin is
                    a very tough, slippery plastic, and model cars are so very light,
                    that wear is virtually non-existent. Arguments have arisen over what
                    constitutes the gunk that collects on the wheels and track. We have
                    analyzed the gunk and found that it's ordinary household dust and
                    dirt, which is bound together into the familar gunk by a combination
                    of the thin, slightly oily residue present on the surface of Delrin,
                    small amounts of lubricant released from locomotives, and humidity in
                    the air.

                    Some modelers claim the gunk contains carbon as a result of
                    electrical arcing. This is physically impossible as there is no
                    source of carbon: rails are nickel, and wheels are nickel, brass or
                    plastic. No carbon in them, or in the atmosphere; plus, there isn't
                    enough current present to produce much in the way of arcing (we've
                    only seen some slight arcing at dead shorts, and none during normal
                    operation). About the only place you'll see actual carbon deposits in
                    a model railroad is on motor armatures, which is being worn off of
                    the compressed carbon brushes by friction.

                    We have found that plastic wheels accumulate more gunk than metal and
                    have concluded that this is due to a small static electric charge
                    that can build up from the friction between the plastic wheels and
                    the metal rails, particularly on curves where one wheel is always
                    slipping a tiny amount. The static charge on the plastic attracts
                    dirt, and over time it builds up into a layer of gunk, which is
                    sometimes deposited back onto the rails. Metal wheels do not
                    accumulate a static charge, and thus don't accumulate much gunk,
                    except what they pick up from the rails by friction.

                    Some modelers swear by certain rail cleaners that the makers claim to
                    be electrically conductive. There is no cleaning solution made that
                    is even the slightest bit electrically conductive--we've tested a lot
                    of them. The claims of being electrically conductive are all bogus.
                    Claims that the cleaners improve electrical conductivity are correct,
                    but only by virtue of the fact that the rail is being cleaned;
                    anything that cleans metal will improve conductivity--even a
                    fingernail, for that matter.

                    Scratches in the surface of the rails are claimed by some to degrade
                    conductivity, which is the basis for warnings against using abrasive
                    blocks. But, if you examine brand new rail under high magnification,
                    you'll see that it already looks badly scratched--this is due to the
                    mechanical process of drawing wire into rail. Abrasive blocks don't
                    make anything worse. Some modelers will polish rail with polishing
                    compound, but the polishing compounds tend to leave residues behind
                    that make the gunk buildup problem worse.

                    Some brands of track are said to perform better than others, and it
                    appears this is true. "Nickel-silver" (which contains no silver,
                    actually) is a mixture of various metals, and the proportions of the
                    different metals can affect electrical conductivity, oxidation rates,
                    and the tendency of the rails to accumulate dirt. Different brands of
                    track will have different metal composition--sometimes you can even
                    see variations in the color. Thus, different brands of track may
                    perform differently.

                    After decades of running, experimenting and testing, we've found the
                    best way to clean wheels is by just moistening a paper towel with
                    alcohol, laying it on some flex track, and rolling cars back and
                    forth over it. To clean track, we just wipe the rails with a block of
                    soft wood. Solvent cleaners just tend to make a mess, abrasive blocks
                    are overkill and also leave abrasive debris behind, and most
                    commercial track cleaners built into freight cars are ineffective.

                    Food for thought!

                    --David

                    http://jamesriverbranch.net/
                    http://1-220.blogspot.com/


                    --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Chenier" <glen@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Alan Cox <alan@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > On Fri, 2 May 2008 10:38:10 -0400
                    > > George Evans <gevans@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > Again i am new to this hobby. What is wrong with plastic wheels?
                    > >
                    > > They don't run on the track as well as metal ones, they also
                    gradually
                    > > leave tiny amounts of plastic residue on the track which is a
                    real
                    > pita to
                    > > remove.
                    > >
                    > > Its a big deal if run a large exhibition layout where the trains
                    run
                    > many
                    > > miles (real not scale) in a day but hardly a big problem for a
                    small
                    > > setup.
                    > >
                    > > Alan
                    > >
                    >
                    > And the plastic wheel residue tends to build up in clumps at rail
                    > joints. Don't know why, maybe the residue collected on the wheel
                    > treads gets jolted off at the joint bump. This happens in all
                    scales,
                    > metal vs plastic is an often discussed topic on many forums.
                    >
                    > Has anyone ever compared plastic buildup with and without Wahl Oil
                    on
                    > the rails? The plastic wears most on curves, the fixed axle and
                    > unequal rail circumference means that the wheels are always
                    scraping on
                    > the rail slightly rather than completely free-rolling, even with
                    the
                    > angled tread profile. A Wahl Oil film may (or may not) reduce
                    plastic
                    > wear due to rail scraping.
                    >
                    > Would be an interesting experiment...
                    >
                  • John Cubbin
                    Very informative post David, thanks for elaborating on your experiences. At the end of the day I too have chosen the soft blocks of wood and alcohol tandem. I
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 2, 2008
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                      Very informative post David, thanks for elaborating on your
                      experiences. At the end of the day I too have chosen the soft blocks
                      of wood and alcohol tandem. I do use Goo Gone once in a great while
                      followed by the alcohol, but more often than not, it's just balsa and
                      alcohol:

                      http://www.ztrains.com/pages/tech/simple/simple.html

                      John
                      htp://www.ztrains.com
                    • viktor_kovacs
                      ... Your oppinion clearly indicates that you don t really run old small marklin locos on your track. The br89 and a few other engines have their motor fixed in
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 3, 2008
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                        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "David K. Smith" <david@...> wrote:
                        > Some modelers claim the gunk contains carbon as a result of
                        > electrical arcing. This is physically impossible as there is no
                        > source of carbon: rails are nickel, and wheels are nickel, brass or
                        > plastic. No carbon in them, or in the atmosphere; plus, there isn't
                        > enough current present to produce much in the way of arcing (we've
                        > only seen some slight arcing at dead shorts, and none during normal
                        > operation). About the only place you'll see actual carbon deposits in
                        > a model railroad is on motor armatures, which is being worn off of
                        > the compressed carbon brushes by friction.

                        Your oppinion clearly indicates that you don't really run old
                        small marklin locos on your track. The br89 and a few other
                        engines have their motor fixed in a vertical position. The design
                        is that the motor sucks air (and dust) from below and hot air
                        leaves through the windows. The position of the motor results
                        in a situation that the brushes are mounted below the motor,
                        very close the rails and don't have anything below them. You
                        can actually check the condition of the brushes by turning the
                        engine upside down. All carbon dust that falls off the brushes
                        goes directly onto the track. These small locos also tend to
                        arc a lot, especially the old 8800 series, where the starting
                        voltage is much higher than on modern ones, so sometimes
                        you have to give 5 volts to make the loco run, while most modern
                        motors start to turn above 2.5-3 volts. Personally I see three
                        sources for gunk: household dust, carbon from the engines,
                        oil dripping from the open geartrains and all this mixed together
                        by the arcing of the locos. Since I don't use plastic wheels,
                        they can't contribute to dirty track. (metal wheels tend to derail
                        less, cut switches easily and sound much nicer)

                        For cleaning I use a lens cleaner cloth. This is a nonabrasive way
                        to get the rails clean and if chemical cleaning is required, pure
                        alcohol is usually more than enough. The only important thing is
                        to make sure the inner vertical edge of the railheads are clean
                        too, since many locos use it for electrical pickup in curves.
                      • Alan Cox
                        ... The residue from the plastics is the problem (I should have been more precise). For the Z layout its ok as I don t have too much track to clean. In N where
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 3, 2008
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                          > of the thin, slightly oily residue present on the surface of Delrin,
                          > small amounts of lubricant released from locomotives, and humidity in
                          > the air.

                          The residue from the plastics is the problem (I should have been more
                          precise). For the Z layout its ok as I don't have too much track to
                          clean. In N where I have rather more trackwork the plastic wheels are
                          simply banned from the layout - and that makes it noticably easier to
                          keep clean.

                          > Some modelers claim the gunk contains carbon as a result of
                          > electrical arcing. This is physically impossible as there is no
                          > source of carbon: rails are nickel, and wheels are nickel, brass or

                          Relco and Gaugemaster cleaners will certainly put burned pits on the
                          track and wheels. I've no idea what the chemical make up is.

                          > appears this is true. "Nickel-silver" (which contains no silver,
                          > actually) is a mixture of various metals, and the proportions of the
                          > different metals can affect electrical conductivity, oxidation rates,
                          > and the tendency of the rails to accumulate dirt. Different brands of
                          > track will have different metal composition--sometimes you can even
                          > see variations in the color. Thus, different brands of track may
                          > perform differently.

                          Nickel silver reacts badly with some atmospheres. One layout I'm vaguely
                          involved with is in the loco shed at a heritage railway. The track needs
                          regular cleaning as something (probably the sulphur in the coal of the
                          large locos it shares the shed with) reacts with it quite well.

                          > best way to clean wheels is by just moistening a paper towel with
                          > alcohol, laying it on some flex track, and rolling cars back and
                          > forth over it. To clean track, we just wipe the rails with a block of
                          > soft wood. Solvent cleaners just tend to make a mess, abrasive blocks
                          > are overkill and also leave abrasive debris behind, and most
                          > commercial track cleaners built into freight cars are ineffective.

                          The Marklin cleaning wagon (*not* the silly railgrinding railbus) is
                          excellent for stopping dirt build up. Its one Marklin purchase I am very
                          very happy with. Once you get real dirt build up it won't help but it
                          delays that a long time and its easy to slip into a regular train when
                          running.

                          One other useful tool missing from Z is the automatic wheel cleaning
                          tracks such as the Tomix N scale one.

                          Alan
                        • David K. Smith
                          True, I don t run these locos any more (although I used to have a few of them). But my point is that the carbon present on the wheels and rails is not a result
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 3, 2008
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                            True, I don't run these locos any more (although I used to have a few
                            of them). But my point is that the carbon present on the wheels and
                            rails is not a result of electical arcing between them, as some
                            contend. Carbon can certainly be present from other sources, such as
                            armatures. It is doubtful, however, that the arcing of the armature
                            is involved with the actual production of the final gunk mixture, as
                            this would mean the armature is filled with dirt, oil and the other
                            components of the gunk, which is unlikely; the gunk is more likely
                            still being produced by a mechanical process involving the friction
                            of wheels and rails, and acquires carbon thrown off of the armature.
                            And the higher voltage required by this loco is more likely a result
                            of its age and design.

                            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "viktor_kovacs" <viktor_kovacs@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "David K. Smith" <david@> wrote:
                            > > Some modelers claim the gunk contains carbon as a result of
                            > > electrical arcing. This is physically impossible as there is no
                            > > source of carbon: rails are nickel, and wheels are nickel, brass
                            or
                            > > plastic. No carbon in them, or in the atmosphere; plus, there
                            isn't
                            > > enough current present to produce much in the way of arcing
                            (we've
                            > > only seen some slight arcing at dead shorts, and none during
                            normal
                            > > operation). About the only place you'll see actual carbon
                            deposits in
                            > > a model railroad is on motor armatures, which is being worn off
                            of
                            > > the compressed carbon brushes by friction.
                            >
                            > Your oppinion clearly indicates that you don't really run old
                            > small marklin locos on your track. The br89 and a few other
                            > engines have their motor fixed in a vertical position. The design
                            > is that the motor sucks air (and dust) from below and hot air
                            > leaves through the windows. The position of the motor results
                            > in a situation that the brushes are mounted below the motor,
                            > very close the rails and don't have anything below them. You
                            > can actually check the condition of the brushes by turning the
                            > engine upside down. All carbon dust that falls off the brushes
                            > goes directly onto the track. These small locos also tend to
                            > arc a lot, especially the old 8800 series, where the starting
                            > voltage is much higher than on modern ones, so sometimes
                            > you have to give 5 volts to make the loco run, while most modern
                            > motors start to turn above 2.5-3 volts. Personally I see three
                            > sources for gunk: household dust, carbon from the engines,
                            > oil dripping from the open geartrains and all this mixed together
                            > by the arcing of the locos. Since I don't use plastic wheels,
                            > they can't contribute to dirty track. (metal wheels tend to derail
                            > less, cut switches easily and sound much nicer)
                            >
                            > For cleaning I use a lens cleaner cloth. This is a nonabrasive way
                            > to get the rails clean and if chemical cleaning is required, pure
                            > alcohol is usually more than enough. The only important thing is
                            > to make sure the inner vertical edge of the railheads are clean
                            > too, since many locos use it for electrical pickup in curves.
                            >
                          • David K. Smith
                            Alan-- It s true that *some* commercial rail cleaning cars can be effective; I wasn t going to go into detail as to which ones. The point was that many of them
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 3, 2008
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                              Alan--

                              It's true that *some* commercial rail cleaning cars can be effective;
                              I wasn't going to go into detail as to which ones. The point was that
                              many of them aren't, particulary the ones with rollers.

                              Actually, what I've found to work best is the old Masonite block
                              under the boxcar trick. Cut a rectangle of Masonite to the width of
                              the track ties, and a length that fits between the trucks of a
                              boxcar. Orient it with the softer, irregular side facing down, and
                              expoxy the heads of two small brads to the smooth, hard side. Drill
                              two holes in the boxcar underbody to align with the nails. Place the
                              nails into the holes under the car, put it on the track, and drag it
                              around in a train. It's amazing the gunk these things pick up.

                              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Alan Cox <alan@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > of the thin, slightly oily residue present on the surface of
                              Delrin,
                              > > small amounts of lubricant released from locomotives, and
                              humidity in
                              > > the air.
                              >
                              > The residue from the plastics is the problem (I should have been
                              more
                              > precise). For the Z layout its ok as I don't have too much track to
                              > clean. In N where I have rather more trackwork the plastic wheels
                              are
                              > simply banned from the layout - and that makes it noticably easier
                              to
                              > keep clean.
                              >
                              > > Some modelers claim the gunk contains carbon as a result of
                              > > electrical arcing. This is physically impossible as there is no
                              > > source of carbon: rails are nickel, and wheels are nickel, brass
                              or
                              >
                              > Relco and Gaugemaster cleaners will certainly put burned pits on the
                              > track and wheels. I've no idea what the chemical make up is.
                              >
                              > > appears this is true. "Nickel-silver" (which contains no silver,
                              > > actually) is a mixture of various metals, and the proportions of
                              the
                              > > different metals can affect electrical conductivity, oxidation
                              rates,
                              > > and the tendency of the rails to accumulate dirt. Different
                              brands of
                              > > track will have different metal composition--sometimes you can
                              even
                              > > see variations in the color. Thus, different brands of track may
                              > > perform differently.
                              >
                              > Nickel silver reacts badly with some atmospheres. One layout I'm
                              vaguely
                              > involved with is in the loco shed at a heritage railway. The track
                              needs
                              > regular cleaning as something (probably the sulphur in the coal of
                              the
                              > large locos it shares the shed with) reacts with it quite well.
                              >
                              > > best way to clean wheels is by just moistening a paper towel with
                              > > alcohol, laying it on some flex track, and rolling cars back and
                              > > forth over it. To clean track, we just wipe the rails with a
                              block of
                              > > soft wood. Solvent cleaners just tend to make a mess, abrasive
                              blocks
                              > > are overkill and also leave abrasive debris behind, and most
                              > > commercial track cleaners built into freight cars are ineffective.
                              >
                              > The Marklin cleaning wagon (*not* the silly railgrinding railbus) is
                              > excellent for stopping dirt build up. Its one Marklin purchase I am
                              very
                              > very happy with. Once you get real dirt build up it won't help but
                              it
                              > delays that a long time and its easy to slip into a regular train
                              when
                              > running.
                              >
                              > One other useful tool missing from Z is the automatic wheel cleaning
                              > tracks such as the Tomix N scale one.
                              >
                              > Alan
                              >
                            • Jim Glass
                              What is the model number of the Marklin cleaning wagon ? Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              Message 14 of 16 , May 3, 2008
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                                What is the model number of the "Marklin cleaning wagon"?

                                Jim

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Uwe Liermann
                                Hello Jim, ... it s 86501 -- GreetingZ Uwe
                                Message 15 of 16 , May 3, 2008
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                                  Hello Jim,

                                  > What is the model number of the "Marklin cleaning wagon"?

                                  it's 86501



                                  --
                                  GreetingZ
                                  Uwe
                                • Uwe Liermann
                                  Hello again Jim, I just forgot for a moment, but recently I wrote about this in another ... and I wrote: well, that depends on the user I believe. As far as I
                                  Message 16 of 16 , May 3, 2008
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                                    Hello again Jim,

                                    I just forgot for a moment, but recently I wrote about this in another
                                    forum. There the question was:

                                    > Ok, what would be considered the Best Z scale Track Cleaning car on
                                    > the market???????

                                    and I wrote:

                                    well, that depends on the user I believe. As far as I know there are
                                    four different pieces of cars on the market:

                                    the Aztec car

                                    the Maerklin Indusi car 88021

                                    the Maerklin 86501 (originally from Manfred Jörger)

                                    a second car from Manfred Jörger, based on the Maerklin 8622 open
                                    freigth car.

                                    Since I own the 86501, this is the best for me. I won't use any car
                                    that uses any abrasive technics to work. If the track is so dirty that
                                    I need that, I did something wrong in the first place. Besides I can
                                    soak the pad with alcohol, and push it with the fingers to loosen the
                                    dirt first before I use a locomotive to push or pull the car for some
                                    laps.

                                    I haven't seen the 8622 car from Jörger yet, but some people said that
                                    this one is even better then the 86501 because of the two axle
                                    configuration versus the truck, but I don't know why this should make
                                    a difference.

                                    Both the Aztec and the Maerklin Indusi car use an abrasive method for
                                    track cleaning, whereas the cars with the Joerger system have a
                                    special kind of cloth under the body, which can be used dry or you can
                                    soak it with a fluid if you want.


                                    --
                                    GreetingZ
                                    Uwe
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