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Re: Turnout Derailment

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  • Garth Hamilton
    Hi Andy; The back to back measurement of a wheel set is the distance between the back fo the two wheels located on teh same axle. THis distance has to be
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 1, 2008
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      Hi Andy;

      The "back to back" measurement of a wheel set is the distance between
      the back fo the two wheels located on teh same axle. THis distance
      has to be slightly larger than the distance between the inside of the
      guard rails on the inside of outside rail and the one on the inside
      of the frog. So you are checking whether the flange of the wheel set
      can pass through this tight clearance without binding. If the wheels
      are too far apart the flange will climb the point of the frog and if
      they too close together and the wheel will climb the bend in the
      point rail where it transitions to be come the guard rail for one
      side of the frog.

      It is not uncommon for a car to roll through the switch without
      derailing when going through on its own as one wheel at a time can
      climb the tight spot and return to the track. IF you watch closely
      you can see the car and truck bumb over the tighness. The most common
      cause is being too tight as being to wide will cause problems
      elsewhere in the track work. The marklin wheels can be moved on the
      axle but you need to realize that it may not require a movement of
      more than a 32nd of an inch or even a 64th of an inch to solve the
      porblem.

      Micro Trains makes a coupler height gauge Part No. 920 in the old
      numbering system which will also function as a track gague and a
      wheel back to back gauge. Some of us have a back to back gauge made
      of brass or aluminum that looks something like a horseshoe which we
      can slide between the two wheels on an axle to set them for the
      correct back to back distance.

      Hope that helps you

      cheers
      Garth



      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Poulo <apoulo@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Garth,
      >
      > Thanks for the response to my question, but I'm not sure I
      understand
      > what you mean by the "back to back on the Marklin wheel sets." Let
      me
      > also give you some additional information. I have a variety of
      Marklin
      > American freight and passenger cars. If allowed to roll through the
      > turnout alone, every car will make the turn smoothly. If coupled
      > together in any conceivable combination, the second car will always
      > fail to make the turn because of what you describe as a wheel pop.
      >
      > Any additional thoughts?
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Andy Poulo
      >
      >
      >
      > On Feb 29, 2008, at 7:23 PM, Garth Hamilton wrote:
      >
      > > I would look closely at one car going through the turn out and you
      > > might find that the back to back on the Marklin wheel sets of the
      > > problem car is too small or tight and the wheel set can not pass
      > > through the two guard rails. This usually causes a wheel pop up
      on the
      > > guard rail beside the frog.
      > >
      > > regards
      > > Garth
      > >
      > > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "apoulo" <apoulo@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I'm new to the group and relatively new to z scale. I am
      > > experiencing
      > > > a problem running Marklin cars over MTL turnouts. The problem
      only
      > > > occurs on right hand turnouts when making a right hand turn.
      Marklin
      > > > cars derail a high percentage of the time while MTL cars have
      no
      > > > problem. My guess is the problem lies with the Marklin
      couplers. I
      > > > think the coupler of the first car is exerting an outside
      pressure
      > > on
      > > > the following car, causing it to want to go straight and
      jumping the
      > > > switch.
      > > >
      > > > I'm not sure my analysis is correct, and even if it is, I can't
      > > figure
      > > > out a solution. Has any one else experienced this problem, and
      does
      > > > any one have a solution?
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • dpstripe@aol.com
      Andy, What Garth was describing is a wheel gauge problem. A lot of marklin stock has problems going through MT turnouts. The wheel gauge on Marklin is slightly
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 1, 2008
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        Andy,
        What Garth was describing is a wheel gauge problem. A lot of marklin stock
        has problems going through MT turnouts. The wheel gauge on Marklin is slightly
        narrower than MT. When you roll a single car through the turnout, watch
        carefully to see if there is any disturbance. Even a slight one. A single car can
        often set itself back on the track. Multiple cars have the additional force
        of the car ahead pulling it and further lifting it off the track.
        Dan S.


        In a message dated 3/1/2008 1:28:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        apoulo@... writes:

        Hi Garth,

        Thanks for the response to my question, but I'm not sure I understand
        what you mean by the "back to back on the Marklin wheel sets." Let me
        also give you some additional information. I have a variety of Marklin
        American freight and passenger cars. If allowed to roll through the
        turnout alone, every car will make the turn smoothly. If coupled
        together in any conceivable combination, the second car will always
        fail to make the turn because of what you describe as a wheel pop.

        Any additional thoughts?

        Thanks,

        Andy Poulo






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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • de Champeaux Dominique
        Did you check Marklin car s axle gauge with a MTL gauge? Dom ... _____________________________________________________________________________ Ne gardez plus
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 2, 2008
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          Did you check Marklin car's axle gauge with a MTL
          gauge?

          Dom




          --- apoulo <apoulo@...> a écrit :

          > I'm new to the group and relatively new to z scale.
          > I am experiencing
          > a problem running Marklin cars over MTL turnouts.
          > The problem only
          > occurs on right hand turnouts when making a right
          > hand turn. Marklin
          > cars derail a high percentage of the time while MTL
          > cars have no
          > problem. My guess is the problem lies with the
          > Marklin couplers. I
          > think the coupler of the first car is exerting an
          > outside pressure on
          > the following car, causing it to want to go straight
          > and jumping the
          > switch.
          >
          > I'm not sure my analysis is correct, and even if it
          > is, I can't figure
          > out a solution. Has any one else experienced this
          > problem, and does
          > any one have a solution?
          >
          >



          _____________________________________________________________________________
          Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail http://mail.yahoo.fr
        • Alex
          Garth, Can you post a photo of this back to back gauge ? Is this some thing easy to make? Thank you, Alex Tokyo, Japan TechRepL1011
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
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            Garth,

            Can you post a photo of this "back to back gauge"?
            Is this some thing easy to make?

            Thank you,
            Alex
            Tokyo, Japan
            TechRepL1011

            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hamilton" <garthah@...> wrote:
            >
            > Some of us have a back to back gauge made
            > of brass or aluminum that looks something like a horseshoe which we
            > can slide between the two wheels on an axle to set them for the
            > correct back to back distance.
            >
            > Garth
          • Andrew Poulo
            Hi Garth and Dan, Thanks for the advice and additional explanations. You guys were right on with your diagnosis. Now all I have to do is set up some kind of
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
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              Hi Garth and Dan,

              Thanks for the advice and additional explanations. You guys were right
              on with your diagnosis. Now all I have to do is set up some kind of
              assembly line to adjust and paint (I dislike the silver) all the
              Marklin wheels. I followed your advise and ordered a MTL Gauge from the
              internet, and will start as soon as it arrives.

              I just posted some photos of the first phase of my layout. The album is
              called Royal Gorge Line. I'm building it on a two foot shelf which runs
              around three sides of an 8' x 10' garden shed. The photos are of the
              first 2' x 8' section. Two other sections will depict Florence and
              Pueblo Colorado.

              Once again, thanks for the advice.

              Andy Poulo
            • pinekirk
              hello andy, i like your layout. if you want any info or pictures (as available) from the area, drop me a line. it s always good to see modelers focusing in
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
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                hello andy,
                i like your layout. if you want any info or pictures (as available)
                from the area, drop me a line. it's always good to see modelers
                focusing in on colorado routes.
                dave f.
                canon city, co

                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Poulo <apoulo@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Garth and Dan,
                >
                > Thanks for the advice and additional explanations. You guys were
                right
                > on with your diagnosis. Now all I have to do is set up some kind of
                > assembly line to adjust and paint (I dislike the silver) all the
                > Marklin wheels. I followed your advise and ordered a MTL Gauge from
                the
                > internet, and will start as soon as it arrives.
                >
                > I just posted some photos of the first phase of my layout. The
                album is
                > called Royal Gorge Line. I'm building it on a two foot shelf which
                runs
                > around three sides of an 8' x 10' garden shed. The photos are of
                the
                > first 2' x 8' section. Two other sections will depict Florence and
                > Pueblo Colorado.
                >
                > Once again, thanks for the advice.
                >
                > Andy Poulo
                >
              • Uwe Liermann
                Hello Alex, ... here s a picture of one version of this tool: http://www.1zu220-modelle.de/20_1.htm the start page is here: http://www.1zu220-modelle.de --
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
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                  Hello Alex,

                  > Garth,

                  Ok.. I'm not Garth, but I bought a tool for this too:

                  > Can you post a photo of this "back to back gauge"?
                  > Is this some thing easy to make?

                  here's a picture of one version of this tool:

                  http://www.1zu220-modelle.de/20_1.htm

                  the start page is here:

                  http://www.1zu220-modelle.de


                  --
                  GreetingZ
                  Uwe
                • Garth Hamilton
                  Hi Alex; Here is a link to the Micro Trains site and a picture of the part. IF there is no link then copy
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
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                    Hi Alex;

                    Here is a link to the Micro Trains site and a picture of the part.

                    <http://www.micro-trains.com/tools_height_gauge.php>

                    IF there is no link then copy paste into your browser window.

                    cheers
                    Garth

                    --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" <butasama@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Garth,
                    >
                    > Can you post a photo of this "back to back gauge"?
                    > Is this some thing easy to make?
                    >
                    > Thank you,
                    > Alex
                    > Tokyo, Japan
                    > TechRepL1011
                    >
                    > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hamilton" <garthah@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Some of us have a back to back gauge made
                    > > of brass or aluminum that looks something like a horseshoe which
                    we
                    > > can slide between the two wheels on an axle to set them for the
                    > > correct back to back distance.
                    > >
                    > > Garth
                    >
                  • David George
                    Andy, Welcome to our Z World. Colorado is one of my interests also. Take a look at my web site for a few pictures of the Royal George Gorge on the Golden ~
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
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                      Andy,
                      Welcome to our Z World.
                      Colorado is one of my interests also.
                      Take a look at my web site for a few pictures of the "Royal George Gorge" on the "Golden ~ Blackhawk & Central city R.R."

                      http://misterdavezscale.blogspot.com

                      At last photo ,in first scheme ,click on "older posts" for more photos.

                      Good luck in your modeling endeavors.
                      Cordially,
                      Mister Dave
                      "G ~ & C C"
                      Spring , Tx.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Andrew Poulo
                      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:15 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Turnout Derailment


                      Hi Garth and Dan,

                      Thanks for the advice and additional explanations. You guys were right
                      on with your diagnosis. Now all I have to do is set up some kind of
                      assembly line to adjust and paint (I dislike the silver) all the
                      Marklin wheels. I followed your advise and ordered a MTL Gauge from the
                      internet, and will start as soon as it arrives.

                      I just posted some photos of the first phase of my layout. The album is
                      called Royal Gorge Line. I'm building it on a two foot shelf which runs
                      around three sides of an 8' x 10' garden shed. The photos are of the
                      first 2' x 8' section. Two other sections will depict Florence and
                      Pueblo Colorado.

                      Once again, thanks for the advice.

                      Andy Poulo





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Andrew Poulo
                      Hi Dave, Thanks for the kind words and offer. I chose the Royal Gorge area because of the railroad war. It gave me an excuse to run Santa Fe and D&GRW trains
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
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                        Hi Dave,

                        Thanks for the kind words and offer. I chose the Royal Gorge area
                        because of the railroad war. It gave me an excuse to run Santa Fe and
                        D&GRW trains together. Although I have never been there, I feel I know
                        every mile of track between Canon City and Pueblo. I have used Google
                        Earth many times to run the route.

                        Andy Poulo


                        On Mar 3, 2008, at 8:31 AM, pinekirk wrote:

                        > hello andy,
                        > i like your layout. if you want any info or pictures (as available)
                        > from the area, drop me a line. it's always good to see modelers
                        > focusing in on colorado routes.
                        > dave f.
                        > canon city, co
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Jeff BAZ-man
                        You can also use the NMRA Nn3 gauge. This stainless steel sheet has 2 fine pins for gaurd rails or just inside the rails or wheel flanges. For the life of
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
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                          You can also use the NMRA Nn3 gauge. This stainless steel sheet has
                          2 fine pins for gaurd rails or just inside the rails or wheel
                          flanges. For the life of me, I can't find a supplier of the NMRA
                          gage. Searched every combination of the names and cannot find one
                          that has it. Thought I got mine from Walthers, Nn3.org or RLW.

                          Jeff
                          SF Bay Area Z

                          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Poulo <apoulo@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Dave,
                          >
                          > Thanks for the kind words and offer. I chose the Royal Gorge area
                          > because of the railroad war. It gave me an excuse to run Santa Fe
                          and
                          > D&GRW trains together. Although I have never been there, I feel I
                          know
                          > every mile of track between Canon City and Pueblo. I have used
                          Google
                          > Earth many times to run the route.
                          >
                          > Andy Poulo
                          >
                          >
                          > On Mar 3, 2008, at 8:31 AM, pinekirk wrote:
                          >
                          > > hello andy,
                          > > i like your layout. if you want any info or pictures (as
                          available)
                          > > from the area, drop me a line. it's always good to see modelers
                          > > focusing in on colorado routes.
                          > > dave f.
                          > > canon city, co
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • stonysmith
                          Over at Fast Tracks is a wonderful video with 3D cad animation that explains how turnouts operate, and what measurements are critical for smooth operation.
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
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                            Over at Fast Tracks is a wonderful video with 3D cad animation that
                            explains how turnouts operate, and what measurements are critical
                            for smooth operation. The video is a bit long, but after watching
                            it, I figured out exactly what was going wrong with one of my
                            turnouts.

                            http://www.handlaidtrack.com/nmra-online.php


                            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" <butasama@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Garth,
                            >
                            > Can you post a photo of this "back to back gauge"?
                            > Is this some thing easy to make?
                            >
                            > Thank you,
                            > Alex
                            > Tokyo, Japan
                            > TechRepL1011
                            >
                            > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hamilton" <garthah@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Some of us have a back to back gauge made
                            > > of brass or aluminum that looks something like a horseshoe which
                            we
                            > > can slide between the two wheels on an axle to set them for the
                            > > correct back to back distance.
                            > >
                            > > Garth
                            >
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