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Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Turnout Derailment

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  • Andrew Poulo
    Hi Garth, Thanks for the response to my question, but I m not sure I understand what you mean by the back to back on the Marklin wheel sets. Let me also give
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 1, 2008
      Hi Garth,

      Thanks for the response to my question, but I'm not sure I understand
      what you mean by the "back to back on the Marklin wheel sets." Let me
      also give you some additional information. I have a variety of Marklin
      American freight and passenger cars. If allowed to roll through the
      turnout alone, every car will make the turn smoothly. If coupled
      together in any conceivable combination, the second car will always
      fail to make the turn because of what you describe as a wheel pop.

      Any additional thoughts?

      Thanks,

      Andy Poulo



      On Feb 29, 2008, at 7:23 PM, Garth Hamilton wrote:

      > I would look closely at one car going through the turn out and you
      > might find that the back to back on the Marklin wheel sets of the
      > problem car is too small or tight and the wheel set can not pass
      > through the two guard rails. This usually causes a wheel pop up on the
      > guard rail beside the frog.
      >
      > regards
      > Garth
      >
      > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "apoulo" <apoulo@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I'm new to the group and relatively new to z scale. I am
      > experiencing
      > > a problem running Marklin cars over MTL turnouts. The problem only
      > > occurs on right hand turnouts when making a right hand turn. Marklin
      > > cars derail a high percentage of the time while MTL cars have no
      > > problem. My guess is the problem lies with the Marklin couplers. I
      > > think the coupler of the first car is exerting an outside pressure
      > on
      > > the following car, causing it to want to go straight and jumping the
      > > switch.
      > >
      > > I'm not sure my analysis is correct, and even if it is, I can't
      > figure
      > > out a solution. Has any one else experienced this problem, and does
      > > any one have a solution?
      > >
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Garth Hamilton
      Hi Andy; The back to back measurement of a wheel set is the distance between the back fo the two wheels located on teh same axle. THis distance has to be
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 1, 2008
        Hi Andy;

        The "back to back" measurement of a wheel set is the distance between
        the back fo the two wheels located on teh same axle. THis distance
        has to be slightly larger than the distance between the inside of the
        guard rails on the inside of outside rail and the one on the inside
        of the frog. So you are checking whether the flange of the wheel set
        can pass through this tight clearance without binding. If the wheels
        are too far apart the flange will climb the point of the frog and if
        they too close together and the wheel will climb the bend in the
        point rail where it transitions to be come the guard rail for one
        side of the frog.

        It is not uncommon for a car to roll through the switch without
        derailing when going through on its own as one wheel at a time can
        climb the tight spot and return to the track. IF you watch closely
        you can see the car and truck bumb over the tighness. The most common
        cause is being too tight as being to wide will cause problems
        elsewhere in the track work. The marklin wheels can be moved on the
        axle but you need to realize that it may not require a movement of
        more than a 32nd of an inch or even a 64th of an inch to solve the
        porblem.

        Micro Trains makes a coupler height gauge Part No. 920 in the old
        numbering system which will also function as a track gague and a
        wheel back to back gauge. Some of us have a back to back gauge made
        of brass or aluminum that looks something like a horseshoe which we
        can slide between the two wheels on an axle to set them for the
        correct back to back distance.

        Hope that helps you

        cheers
        Garth



        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Poulo <apoulo@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Garth,
        >
        > Thanks for the response to my question, but I'm not sure I
        understand
        > what you mean by the "back to back on the Marklin wheel sets." Let
        me
        > also give you some additional information. I have a variety of
        Marklin
        > American freight and passenger cars. If allowed to roll through the
        > turnout alone, every car will make the turn smoothly. If coupled
        > together in any conceivable combination, the second car will always
        > fail to make the turn because of what you describe as a wheel pop.
        >
        > Any additional thoughts?
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Andy Poulo
        >
        >
        >
        > On Feb 29, 2008, at 7:23 PM, Garth Hamilton wrote:
        >
        > > I would look closely at one car going through the turn out and you
        > > might find that the back to back on the Marklin wheel sets of the
        > > problem car is too small or tight and the wheel set can not pass
        > > through the two guard rails. This usually causes a wheel pop up
        on the
        > > guard rail beside the frog.
        > >
        > > regards
        > > Garth
        > >
        > > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "apoulo" <apoulo@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I'm new to the group and relatively new to z scale. I am
        > > experiencing
        > > > a problem running Marklin cars over MTL turnouts. The problem
        only
        > > > occurs on right hand turnouts when making a right hand turn.
        Marklin
        > > > cars derail a high percentage of the time while MTL cars have
        no
        > > > problem. My guess is the problem lies with the Marklin
        couplers. I
        > > > think the coupler of the first car is exerting an outside
        pressure
        > > on
        > > > the following car, causing it to want to go straight and
        jumping the
        > > > switch.
        > > >
        > > > I'm not sure my analysis is correct, and even if it is, I can't
        > > figure
        > > > out a solution. Has any one else experienced this problem, and
        does
        > > > any one have a solution?
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • dpstripe@aol.com
        Andy, What Garth was describing is a wheel gauge problem. A lot of marklin stock has problems going through MT turnouts. The wheel gauge on Marklin is slightly
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 1, 2008
          Andy,
          What Garth was describing is a wheel gauge problem. A lot of marklin stock
          has problems going through MT turnouts. The wheel gauge on Marklin is slightly
          narrower than MT. When you roll a single car through the turnout, watch
          carefully to see if there is any disturbance. Even a slight one. A single car can
          often set itself back on the track. Multiple cars have the additional force
          of the car ahead pulling it and further lifting it off the track.
          Dan S.


          In a message dated 3/1/2008 1:28:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          apoulo@... writes:

          Hi Garth,

          Thanks for the response to my question, but I'm not sure I understand
          what you mean by the "back to back on the Marklin wheel sets." Let me
          also give you some additional information. I have a variety of Marklin
          American freight and passenger cars. If allowed to roll through the
          turnout alone, every car will make the turn smoothly. If coupled
          together in any conceivable combination, the second car will always
          fail to make the turn because of what you describe as a wheel pop.

          Any additional thoughts?

          Thanks,

          Andy Poulo






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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • de Champeaux Dominique
          Did you check Marklin car s axle gauge with a MTL gauge? Dom ... _____________________________________________________________________________ Ne gardez plus
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 2, 2008
            Did you check Marklin car's axle gauge with a MTL
            gauge?

            Dom




            --- apoulo <apoulo@...> a écrit :

            > I'm new to the group and relatively new to z scale.
            > I am experiencing
            > a problem running Marklin cars over MTL turnouts.
            > The problem only
            > occurs on right hand turnouts when making a right
            > hand turn. Marklin
            > cars derail a high percentage of the time while MTL
            > cars have no
            > problem. My guess is the problem lies with the
            > Marklin couplers. I
            > think the coupler of the first car is exerting an
            > outside pressure on
            > the following car, causing it to want to go straight
            > and jumping the
            > switch.
            >
            > I'm not sure my analysis is correct, and even if it
            > is, I can't figure
            > out a solution. Has any one else experienced this
            > problem, and does
            > any one have a solution?
            >
            >



            _____________________________________________________________________________
            Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail http://mail.yahoo.fr
          • Alex
            Garth, Can you post a photo of this back to back gauge ? Is this some thing easy to make? Thank you, Alex Tokyo, Japan TechRepL1011
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
              Garth,

              Can you post a photo of this "back to back gauge"?
              Is this some thing easy to make?

              Thank you,
              Alex
              Tokyo, Japan
              TechRepL1011

              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hamilton" <garthah@...> wrote:
              >
              > Some of us have a back to back gauge made
              > of brass or aluminum that looks something like a horseshoe which we
              > can slide between the two wheels on an axle to set them for the
              > correct back to back distance.
              >
              > Garth
            • Andrew Poulo
              Hi Garth and Dan, Thanks for the advice and additional explanations. You guys were right on with your diagnosis. Now all I have to do is set up some kind of
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
                Hi Garth and Dan,

                Thanks for the advice and additional explanations. You guys were right
                on with your diagnosis. Now all I have to do is set up some kind of
                assembly line to adjust and paint (I dislike the silver) all the
                Marklin wheels. I followed your advise and ordered a MTL Gauge from the
                internet, and will start as soon as it arrives.

                I just posted some photos of the first phase of my layout. The album is
                called Royal Gorge Line. I'm building it on a two foot shelf which runs
                around three sides of an 8' x 10' garden shed. The photos are of the
                first 2' x 8' section. Two other sections will depict Florence and
                Pueblo Colorado.

                Once again, thanks for the advice.

                Andy Poulo
              • pinekirk
                hello andy, i like your layout. if you want any info or pictures (as available) from the area, drop me a line. it s always good to see modelers focusing in
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
                  hello andy,
                  i like your layout. if you want any info or pictures (as available)
                  from the area, drop me a line. it's always good to see modelers
                  focusing in on colorado routes.
                  dave f.
                  canon city, co

                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Poulo <apoulo@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Garth and Dan,
                  >
                  > Thanks for the advice and additional explanations. You guys were
                  right
                  > on with your diagnosis. Now all I have to do is set up some kind of
                  > assembly line to adjust and paint (I dislike the silver) all the
                  > Marklin wheels. I followed your advise and ordered a MTL Gauge from
                  the
                  > internet, and will start as soon as it arrives.
                  >
                  > I just posted some photos of the first phase of my layout. The
                  album is
                  > called Royal Gorge Line. I'm building it on a two foot shelf which
                  runs
                  > around three sides of an 8' x 10' garden shed. The photos are of
                  the
                  > first 2' x 8' section. Two other sections will depict Florence and
                  > Pueblo Colorado.
                  >
                  > Once again, thanks for the advice.
                  >
                  > Andy Poulo
                  >
                • Uwe Liermann
                  Hello Alex, ... here s a picture of one version of this tool: http://www.1zu220-modelle.de/20_1.htm the start page is here: http://www.1zu220-modelle.de --
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
                    Hello Alex,

                    > Garth,

                    Ok.. I'm not Garth, but I bought a tool for this too:

                    > Can you post a photo of this "back to back gauge"?
                    > Is this some thing easy to make?

                    here's a picture of one version of this tool:

                    http://www.1zu220-modelle.de/20_1.htm

                    the start page is here:

                    http://www.1zu220-modelle.de


                    --
                    GreetingZ
                    Uwe
                  • Garth Hamilton
                    Hi Alex; Here is a link to the Micro Trains site and a picture of the part. IF there is no link then copy
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
                      Hi Alex;

                      Here is a link to the Micro Trains site and a picture of the part.

                      <http://www.micro-trains.com/tools_height_gauge.php>

                      IF there is no link then copy paste into your browser window.

                      cheers
                      Garth

                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" <butasama@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Garth,
                      >
                      > Can you post a photo of this "back to back gauge"?
                      > Is this some thing easy to make?
                      >
                      > Thank you,
                      > Alex
                      > Tokyo, Japan
                      > TechRepL1011
                      >
                      > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hamilton" <garthah@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Some of us have a back to back gauge made
                      > > of brass or aluminum that looks something like a horseshoe which
                      we
                      > > can slide between the two wheels on an axle to set them for the
                      > > correct back to back distance.
                      > >
                      > > Garth
                      >
                    • David George
                      Andy, Welcome to our Z World. Colorado is one of my interests also. Take a look at my web site for a few pictures of the Royal George Gorge on the Golden ~
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
                        Andy,
                        Welcome to our Z World.
                        Colorado is one of my interests also.
                        Take a look at my web site for a few pictures of the "Royal George Gorge" on the "Golden ~ Blackhawk & Central city R.R."

                        http://misterdavezscale.blogspot.com

                        At last photo ,in first scheme ,click on "older posts" for more photos.

                        Good luck in your modeling endeavors.
                        Cordially,
                        Mister Dave
                        "G ~ & C C"
                        Spring , Tx.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Andrew Poulo
                        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:15 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Turnout Derailment


                        Hi Garth and Dan,

                        Thanks for the advice and additional explanations. You guys were right
                        on with your diagnosis. Now all I have to do is set up some kind of
                        assembly line to adjust and paint (I dislike the silver) all the
                        Marklin wheels. I followed your advise and ordered a MTL Gauge from the
                        internet, and will start as soon as it arrives.

                        I just posted some photos of the first phase of my layout. The album is
                        called Royal Gorge Line. I'm building it on a two foot shelf which runs
                        around three sides of an 8' x 10' garden shed. The photos are of the
                        first 2' x 8' section. Two other sections will depict Florence and
                        Pueblo Colorado.

                        Once again, thanks for the advice.

                        Andy Poulo





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Andrew Poulo
                        Hi Dave, Thanks for the kind words and offer. I chose the Royal Gorge area because of the railroad war. It gave me an excuse to run Santa Fe and D&GRW trains
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
                          Hi Dave,

                          Thanks for the kind words and offer. I chose the Royal Gorge area
                          because of the railroad war. It gave me an excuse to run Santa Fe and
                          D&GRW trains together. Although I have never been there, I feel I know
                          every mile of track between Canon City and Pueblo. I have used Google
                          Earth many times to run the route.

                          Andy Poulo


                          On Mar 3, 2008, at 8:31 AM, pinekirk wrote:

                          > hello andy,
                          > i like your layout. if you want any info or pictures (as available)
                          > from the area, drop me a line. it's always good to see modelers
                          > focusing in on colorado routes.
                          > dave f.
                          > canon city, co
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jeff BAZ-man
                          You can also use the NMRA Nn3 gauge. This stainless steel sheet has 2 fine pins for gaurd rails or just inside the rails or wheel flanges. For the life of
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
                            You can also use the NMRA Nn3 gauge. This stainless steel sheet has
                            2 fine pins for gaurd rails or just inside the rails or wheel
                            flanges. For the life of me, I can't find a supplier of the NMRA
                            gage. Searched every combination of the names and cannot find one
                            that has it. Thought I got mine from Walthers, Nn3.org or RLW.

                            Jeff
                            SF Bay Area Z

                            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Poulo <apoulo@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Dave,
                            >
                            > Thanks for the kind words and offer. I chose the Royal Gorge area
                            > because of the railroad war. It gave me an excuse to run Santa Fe
                            and
                            > D&GRW trains together. Although I have never been there, I feel I
                            know
                            > every mile of track between Canon City and Pueblo. I have used
                            Google
                            > Earth many times to run the route.
                            >
                            > Andy Poulo
                            >
                            >
                            > On Mar 3, 2008, at 8:31 AM, pinekirk wrote:
                            >
                            > > hello andy,
                            > > i like your layout. if you want any info or pictures (as
                            available)
                            > > from the area, drop me a line. it's always good to see modelers
                            > > focusing in on colorado routes.
                            > > dave f.
                            > > canon city, co
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • stonysmith
                            Over at Fast Tracks is a wonderful video with 3D cad animation that explains how turnouts operate, and what measurements are critical for smooth operation.
                            Message 13 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
                              Over at Fast Tracks is a wonderful video with 3D cad animation that
                              explains how turnouts operate, and what measurements are critical
                              for smooth operation. The video is a bit long, but after watching
                              it, I figured out exactly what was going wrong with one of my
                              turnouts.

                              http://www.handlaidtrack.com/nmra-online.php


                              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" <butasama@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Garth,
                              >
                              > Can you post a photo of this "back to back gauge"?
                              > Is this some thing easy to make?
                              >
                              > Thank you,
                              > Alex
                              > Tokyo, Japan
                              > TechRepL1011
                              >
                              > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hamilton" <garthah@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Some of us have a back to back gauge made
                              > > of brass or aluminum that looks something like a horseshoe which
                              we
                              > > can slide between the two wheels on an axle to set them for the
                              > > correct back to back distance.
                              > >
                              > > Garth
                              >
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