## Re: Turnout Derailment

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• I would look closely at one car going through the turn out and you might find that the back to back on the Marklin wheel sets of the problem car is too small
Message 1 of 15 , Feb 29, 2008
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I would look closely at one car going through the turn out and you
might find that the back to back on the Marklin wheel sets of the
problem car is too small or tight and the wheel set can not pass
through the two guard rails. This usually causes a wheel pop up on the
guard rail beside the frog.

regards
Garth

--- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "apoulo" <apoulo@...> wrote:
>
> I'm new to the group and relatively new to z scale. I am experiencing
> a problem running Marklin cars over MTL turnouts. The problem only
> occurs on right hand turnouts when making a right hand turn. Marklin
> cars derail a high percentage of the time while MTL cars have no
> problem. My guess is the problem lies with the Marklin couplers. I
> think the coupler of the first car is exerting an outside pressure on
> the following car, causing it to want to go straight and jumping the
> switch.
>
> I'm not sure my analysis is correct, and even if it is, I can't
figure
> out a solution. Has any one else experienced this problem, and does
> any one have a solution?
>
• Hi Garth, Thanks for the response to my question, but I m not sure I understand what you mean by the back to back on the Marklin wheel sets. Let me also give
Message 2 of 15 , Mar 1, 2008
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Hi Garth,

Thanks for the response to my question, but I'm not sure I understand
what you mean by the "back to back on the Marklin wheel sets." Let me
also give you some additional information. I have a variety of Marklin
American freight and passenger cars. If allowed to roll through the
turnout alone, every car will make the turn smoothly. If coupled
together in any conceivable combination, the second car will always
fail to make the turn because of what you describe as a wheel pop.

Thanks,

Andy Poulo

On Feb 29, 2008, at 7:23 PM, Garth Hamilton wrote:

> I would look closely at one car going through the turn out and you
> might find that the back to back on the Marklin wheel sets of the
> problem car is too small or tight and the wheel set can not pass
> through the two guard rails. This usually causes a wheel pop up on the
> guard rail beside the frog.
>
> regards
> Garth
>
> --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "apoulo" <apoulo@...> wrote:
> >
> > I'm new to the group and relatively new to z scale. I am
> experiencing
> > a problem running Marklin cars over MTL turnouts. The problem only
> > occurs on right hand turnouts when making a right hand turn. Marklin
> > cars derail a high percentage of the time while MTL cars have no
> > problem. My guess is the problem lies with the Marklin couplers. I
> > think the coupler of the first car is exerting an outside pressure
> on
> > the following car, causing it to want to go straight and jumping the
> > switch.
> >
> > I'm not sure my analysis is correct, and even if it is, I can't
> figure
> > out a solution. Has any one else experienced this problem, and does
> > any one have a solution?
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Hi Andy; The back to back measurement of a wheel set is the distance between the back fo the two wheels located on teh same axle. THis distance has to be
Message 3 of 15 , Mar 1, 2008
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Hi Andy;

The "back to back" measurement of a wheel set is the distance between
the back fo the two wheels located on teh same axle. THis distance
has to be slightly larger than the distance between the inside of the
guard rails on the inside of outside rail and the one on the inside
of the frog. So you are checking whether the flange of the wheel set
can pass through this tight clearance without binding. If the wheels
are too far apart the flange will climb the point of the frog and if
they too close together and the wheel will climb the bend in the
point rail where it transitions to be come the guard rail for one
side of the frog.

It is not uncommon for a car to roll through the switch without
derailing when going through on its own as one wheel at a time can
climb the tight spot and return to the track. IF you watch closely
you can see the car and truck bumb over the tighness. The most common
cause is being too tight as being to wide will cause problems
elsewhere in the track work. The marklin wheels can be moved on the
axle but you need to realize that it may not require a movement of
more than a 32nd of an inch or even a 64th of an inch to solve the
porblem.

Micro Trains makes a coupler height gauge Part No. 920 in the old
numbering system which will also function as a track gague and a
wheel back to back gauge. Some of us have a back to back gauge made
of brass or aluminum that looks something like a horseshoe which we
can slide between the two wheels on an axle to set them for the
correct back to back distance.

Hope that helps you

cheers
Garth

--- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Poulo <apoulo@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Garth,
>
> Thanks for the response to my question, but I'm not sure I
understand
> what you mean by the "back to back on the Marklin wheel sets." Let
me
> also give you some additional information. I have a variety of
Marklin
> American freight and passenger cars. If allowed to roll through the
> turnout alone, every car will make the turn smoothly. If coupled
> together in any conceivable combination, the second car will always
> fail to make the turn because of what you describe as a wheel pop.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy Poulo
>
>
>
> On Feb 29, 2008, at 7:23 PM, Garth Hamilton wrote:
>
> > I would look closely at one car going through the turn out and you
> > might find that the back to back on the Marklin wheel sets of the
> > problem car is too small or tight and the wheel set can not pass
> > through the two guard rails. This usually causes a wheel pop up
on the
> > guard rail beside the frog.
> >
> > regards
> > Garth
> >
> > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "apoulo" <apoulo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm new to the group and relatively new to z scale. I am
> > experiencing
> > > a problem running Marklin cars over MTL turnouts. The problem
only
> > > occurs on right hand turnouts when making a right hand turn.
Marklin
> > > cars derail a high percentage of the time while MTL cars have
no
> > > problem. My guess is the problem lies with the Marklin
couplers. I
> > > think the coupler of the first car is exerting an outside
pressure
> > on
> > > the following car, causing it to want to go straight and
jumping the
> > > switch.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure my analysis is correct, and even if it is, I can't
> > figure
> > > out a solution. Has any one else experienced this problem, and
does
> > > any one have a solution?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
• Andy, What Garth was describing is a wheel gauge problem. A lot of marklin stock has problems going through MT turnouts. The wheel gauge on Marklin is slightly
Message 4 of 15 , Mar 1, 2008
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Andy,
What Garth was describing is a wheel gauge problem. A lot of marklin stock
has problems going through MT turnouts. The wheel gauge on Marklin is slightly
narrower than MT. When you roll a single car through the turnout, watch
carefully to see if there is any disturbance. Even a slight one. A single car can
often set itself back on the track. Multiple cars have the additional force
of the car ahead pulling it and further lifting it off the track.
Dan S.

In a message dated 3/1/2008 1:28:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
apoulo@... writes:

Hi Garth,

Thanks for the response to my question, but I'm not sure I understand
what you mean by the "back to back on the Marklin wheel sets." Let me
also give you some additional information. I have a variety of Marklin
American freight and passenger cars. If allowed to roll through the
turnout alone, every car will make the turn smoothly. If coupled
together in any conceivable combination, the second car will always
fail to make the turn because of what you describe as a wheel pop.

Thanks,

Andy Poulo

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Did you check Marklin car s axle gauge with a MTL gauge? Dom ... _____________________________________________________________________________ Ne gardez plus
Message 5 of 15 , Mar 2, 2008
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Did you check Marklin car's axle gauge with a MTL
gauge?

Dom

--- apoulo <apoulo@...> a écrit :

> I'm new to the group and relatively new to z scale.
> I am experiencing
> a problem running Marklin cars over MTL turnouts.
> The problem only
> occurs on right hand turnouts when making a right
> hand turn. Marklin
> cars derail a high percentage of the time while MTL
> cars have no
> problem. My guess is the problem lies with the
> Marklin couplers. I
> think the coupler of the first car is exerting an
> outside pressure on
> the following car, causing it to want to go straight
> and jumping the
> switch.
>
> I'm not sure my analysis is correct, and even if it
> is, I can't figure
> out a solution. Has any one else experienced this
> problem, and does
> any one have a solution?
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________________
Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail http://mail.yahoo.fr
• Garth, Can you post a photo of this back to back gauge ? Is this some thing easy to make? Thank you, Alex Tokyo, Japan TechRepL1011
Message 6 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
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Garth,

Can you post a photo of this "back to back gauge"?
Is this some thing easy to make?

Thank you,
Alex
Tokyo, Japan
TechRepL1011

--- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hamilton" <garthah@...> wrote:
>
> Some of us have a back to back gauge made
> of brass or aluminum that looks something like a horseshoe which we
> can slide between the two wheels on an axle to set them for the
> correct back to back distance.
>
> Garth
• Hi Garth and Dan, Thanks for the advice and additional explanations. You guys were right on with your diagnosis. Now all I have to do is set up some kind of
Message 7 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
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Hi Garth and Dan,

on with your diagnosis. Now all I have to do is set up some kind of
assembly line to adjust and paint (I dislike the silver) all the
Marklin wheels. I followed your advise and ordered a MTL Gauge from the
internet, and will start as soon as it arrives.

I just posted some photos of the first phase of my layout. The album is
called Royal Gorge Line. I'm building it on a two foot shelf which runs
around three sides of an 8' x 10' garden shed. The photos are of the
first 2' x 8' section. Two other sections will depict Florence and

Once again, thanks for the advice.

Andy Poulo
• hello andy, i like your layout. if you want any info or pictures (as available) from the area, drop me a line. it s always good to see modelers focusing in
Message 8 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
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hello andy,
i like your layout. if you want any info or pictures (as available)
from the area, drop me a line. it's always good to see modelers
dave f.
canon city, co

--- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Poulo <apoulo@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Garth and Dan,
>
right
> on with your diagnosis. Now all I have to do is set up some kind of
> assembly line to adjust and paint (I dislike the silver) all the
> Marklin wheels. I followed your advise and ordered a MTL Gauge from
the
> internet, and will start as soon as it arrives.
>
> I just posted some photos of the first phase of my layout. The
album is
> called Royal Gorge Line. I'm building it on a two foot shelf which
runs
> around three sides of an 8' x 10' garden shed. The photos are of
the
> first 2' x 8' section. Two other sections will depict Florence and
>
> Once again, thanks for the advice.
>
> Andy Poulo
>
• Hello Alex, ... here s a picture of one version of this tool: http://www.1zu220-modelle.de/20_1.htm the start page is here: http://www.1zu220-modelle.de --
Message 9 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
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Hello Alex,

> Garth,

Ok.. I'm not Garth, but I bought a tool for this too:

> Can you post a photo of this "back to back gauge"?
> Is this some thing easy to make?

here's a picture of one version of this tool:

http://www.1zu220-modelle.de/20_1.htm

the start page is here:

http://www.1zu220-modelle.de

--
GreetingZ
Uwe
• Hi Alex; Here is a link to the Micro Trains site and a picture of the part. IF there is no link then copy
Message 10 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
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Hi Alex;

Here is a link to the Micro Trains site and a picture of the part.

<http://www.micro-trains.com/tools_height_gauge.php>

IF there is no link then copy paste into your browser window.

cheers
Garth

--- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" <butasama@...> wrote:
>
> Garth,
>
> Can you post a photo of this "back to back gauge"?
> Is this some thing easy to make?
>
> Thank you,
> Alex
> Tokyo, Japan
> TechRepL1011
>
> --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hamilton" <garthah@> wrote:
> >
> > Some of us have a back to back gauge made
> > of brass or aluminum that looks something like a horseshoe which
we
> > can slide between the two wheels on an axle to set them for the
> > correct back to back distance.
> >
> > Garth
>
• Andy, Welcome to our Z World. Colorado is one of my interests also. Take a look at my web site for a few pictures of the Royal George Gorge on the Golden ~
Message 11 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
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Andy,
Welcome to our Z World.
Colorado is one of my interests also.
Take a look at my web site for a few pictures of the "Royal George Gorge" on the "Golden ~ Blackhawk & Central city R.R."

http://misterdavezscale.blogspot.com

At last photo ,in first scheme ,click on "older posts" for more photos.

Good luck in your modeling endeavors.
Cordially,
Mister Dave
"G ~ & C C"
Spring , Tx.
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Poulo
To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Turnout Derailment

Hi Garth and Dan,

on with your diagnosis. Now all I have to do is set up some kind of
assembly line to adjust and paint (I dislike the silver) all the
Marklin wheels. I followed your advise and ordered a MTL Gauge from the
internet, and will start as soon as it arrives.

I just posted some photos of the first phase of my layout. The album is
called Royal Gorge Line. I'm building it on a two foot shelf which runs
around three sides of an 8' x 10' garden shed. The photos are of the
first 2' x 8' section. Two other sections will depict Florence and

Once again, thanks for the advice.

Andy Poulo

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Hi Dave, Thanks for the kind words and offer. I chose the Royal Gorge area because of the railroad war. It gave me an excuse to run Santa Fe and D&GRW trains
Message 12 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
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Hi Dave,

Thanks for the kind words and offer. I chose the Royal Gorge area
because of the railroad war. It gave me an excuse to run Santa Fe and
D&GRW trains together. Although I have never been there, I feel I know
every mile of track between Canon City and Pueblo. I have used Google
Earth many times to run the route.

Andy Poulo

On Mar 3, 2008, at 8:31 AM, pinekirk wrote:

> hello andy,
> i like your layout. if you want any info or pictures (as available)
> from the area, drop me a line. it's always good to see modelers
> focusing in on colorado routes.
> dave f.
> canon city, co
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• You can also use the NMRA Nn3 gauge. This stainless steel sheet has 2 fine pins for gaurd rails or just inside the rails or wheel flanges. For the life of
Message 13 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
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You can also use the NMRA Nn3 gauge. This stainless steel sheet has
2 fine pins for gaurd rails or just inside the rails or wheel
flanges. For the life of me, I can't find a supplier of the NMRA
gage. Searched every combination of the names and cannot find one
that has it. Thought I got mine from Walthers, Nn3.org or RLW.

Jeff
SF Bay Area Z

--- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Poulo <apoulo@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Thanks for the kind words and offer. I chose the Royal Gorge area
> because of the railroad war. It gave me an excuse to run Santa Fe
and
> D&GRW trains together. Although I have never been there, I feel I
know
> every mile of track between Canon City and Pueblo. I have used
> Earth many times to run the route.
>
> Andy Poulo
>
>
> On Mar 3, 2008, at 8:31 AM, pinekirk wrote:
>
> > hello andy,
> > i like your layout. if you want any info or pictures (as
available)
> > from the area, drop me a line. it's always good to see modelers
> > focusing in on colorado routes.
> > dave f.
> > canon city, co
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
• Over at Fast Tracks is a wonderful video with 3D cad animation that explains how turnouts operate, and what measurements are critical for smooth operation.
Message 14 of 15 , Mar 4, 2008
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Over at Fast Tracks is a wonderful video with 3D cad animation that
explains how turnouts operate, and what measurements are critical
for smooth operation. The video is a bit long, but after watching
it, I figured out exactly what was going wrong with one of my
turnouts.

http://www.handlaidtrack.com/nmra-online.php

--- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" <butasama@...> wrote:
>
> Garth,
>
> Can you post a photo of this "back to back gauge"?
> Is this some thing easy to make?
>
> Thank you,
> Alex
> Tokyo, Japan
> TechRepL1011
>
> --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hamilton" <garthah@> wrote:
> >
> > Some of us have a back to back gauge made
> > of brass or aluminum that looks something like a horseshoe which
we
> > can slide between the two wheels on an axle to set them for the
> > correct back to back distance.
> >
> > Garth
>
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