Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Railroad Telegraphers Was Germlish

Expand Messages
  • MOFWCABOOSE@AOL.COM
    The locomotive whistle signals were not related to Morse Code, but had a meaning all their own. In this case, the signal described (two longs, a short, and
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 25, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      The locomotive whistle signals were not related to Morse Code, but had a
      meaning all their own. In this case, the signal described (two longs, a short,
      and another long) was the standard warning given when approaching a grade
      crossing. The last long was prelonged until the crossing was reached.

      John C. La Rue, Jr.
      Bonita Springs, FL


      **************
      Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on
      AOL Living.

      (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Glen Chenier
      John, Could you please add to this? What are the other whistle signals? ... had a ... longs, a short, ... grade
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 25, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        John,

        Could you please add to this? What are the other whistle signals?


        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, MOFWCABOOSE@... wrote:
        >
        > The locomotive whistle signals were not related to Morse Code, but
        had a
        > meaning all their own. In this case, the signal described (two
        longs, a short,
        > and another long) was the standard warning given when approaching a
        grade
        > crossing. The last long was prelonged until the crossing was reached.
        >
        > John C. La Rue, Jr.
        > Bonita Springs, FL
        >
      • Michael Piersdorff
        ... I don t think the list of whistle (horn) signals contained in the Canadian Rail Operating Rules (CROR) found on page 22 at
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 25, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Chenier" <glen@...> wrote:
          >
          > John,
          >
          > Could you please add to this? What are the other whistle signals?
          >

          I don't think the list of whistle (horn) signals contained in the
          Canadian Rail Operating Rules (CROR) found on page 22 at
          http://ossus.tchmachines.com/~hrpcgbp/zip/cror2004.pdf is
          comprehensive - I suspect individual railways and railroads (Canada and
          US, respectively) add to the list in their own operating rules
          (engineer to brakeman and back when radios are inoperable, for
          instance).

          It would be intersting to see and listen to a layout with some of these
          sounds incorporated - I think it would require some sort of computer
          control when the layout gets big enough for three or four trains
          running at the same time, especially in a suburban environment (lots of
          level crossings to signal).

          Michael
        • MOFWCABOOSE@AOL.COM
          Michael is undoubtedly correct in that signals varied from railroad to railroad. The following list is taken from a list I found in Walter L. Hayward s A
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 25, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Michael is undoubtedly correct in that signals varied from railroad to
            railroad. The following list is taken from a list I found in Walter L. Hayward's "A
            Railroad Miscellany". He doesn't cite a source for his list, but I am inclined
            to suspect the Union Pacific.

            One short: Stop, apply brakes.
            Two long: Release brakes.
            One long, three short: Flagman protect rear of train.
            Four long: Flagman return from west or south.
            Five long: Flagman return from east or north.
            Three long: Train parted.
            Two short: Answer to any signal not otherwise provided for.
            Three short: When train is standing; back up. When (passenger) train is
            running, warning to mail clerks of approaching mail crane at station.
            Four short: Call for signals.
            Two long, one short, one long: Approaching public crossing, tunnels and
            obscured curves.
            Continuous very long blast: to be commenced one mile before reaching
            stations, junctions, draw bridges, railroad crossings, and mail cranes located between
            stations. When standing, apply air from rear of train.
            Two long, one short: Approaching meeting or waiting points.
            One short, one long: Inspect brake line for leaks or sticking brakes.
            Two short, one long: Engineer of second engine take control of air brakes.
            When second engineer has control, he repeats this signal.
            Two short, pause, two short: Engineer of second engine assist in recharging
            brake line.
            Many short: Warning to person or livestock on track.

            As is evident, many of these signals were to the crew on the caboose or the
            crew of the second locomotive on a double-header. The crew on the caboose had
            no way to answer back. Most of these signals went out with the advent of
            radios, except for the grade crossing warnings, which are still heard except in
            towns where NIMBY pressure has resulted in local ordnances against them.

            John C. La Rue, Jr.
            Bonita Springs, FL


            **************
            Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on
            AOL Living.

            (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael Piersdorff
            ... to ... L. Hayward s A ... am inclined ... train is ... station. ... and ... reaching ... cranes located between ... brakes. ... brakes. ... recharging ...
            Message 5 of 19 , Feb 25, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, MOFWCABOOSE@... wrote:
              >
              > Michael is undoubtedly correct in that signals varied from railroad
              to
              > railroad. The following list is taken from a list I found in Walter
              L. Hayward's "A
              > Railroad Miscellany". He doesn't cite a source for his list, but I
              am inclined
              > to suspect the Union Pacific.
              >
              > One short: Stop, apply brakes.
              > Two long: Release brakes.
              > One long, three short: Flagman protect rear of train.
              > Four long: Flagman return from west or south.
              > Five long: Flagman return from east or north.
              > Three long: Train parted.
              > Two short: Answer to any signal not otherwise provided for.
              > Three short: When train is standing; back up. When (passenger)
              train is
              > running, warning to mail clerks of approaching mail crane at
              station.
              > Four short: Call for signals.
              > Two long, one short, one long: Approaching public crossing, tunnels
              and
              > obscured curves.
              > Continuous very long blast: to be commenced one mile before
              reaching
              > stations, junctions, draw bridges, railroad crossings, and mail
              cranes located between
              > stations. When standing, apply air from rear of train.
              > Two long, one short: Approaching meeting or waiting points.
              > One short, one long: Inspect brake line for leaks or sticking
              brakes.
              > Two short, one long: Engineer of second engine take control of air
              brakes.
              > When second engineer has control, he repeats this signal.
              > Two short, pause, two short: Engineer of second engine assist in
              recharging
              > brake line.
              > Many short: Warning to person or livestock on track.
              >
              > As is evident, many of these signals were to the crew on the
              caboose or the
              > crew of the second locomotive on a double-header. The crew on the
              caboose had
              > no way to answer back. Most of these signals went out with the
              advent of
              > radios, except for the grade crossing warnings, which are still
              heard except in
              > towns where NIMBY pressure has resulted in local ordnances against
              them.


              John, I have operated a few times as cabin crew and once as fireman
              on the Canadian Museum of Science and Technology's excursion runs
              (oil-fired Pacific, 1201). The brakeman carried with him a little
              gizmo that plugged into the brake line at the rear of the last car
              and which emitted an ear-piercing shriek when he pushed he button.
              That was how he sent return messages to engineer and conductor at the
              front of train. As I recall, the code in use was very much as you
              described above for UP.

              Michael

              Michael
            • Glen Chenier
              Thanks much for this info, very informative. ... to ... L. Hayward s A ... am inclined ... train is ... station. ... and ... reaching ... cranes located
              Message 6 of 19 , Feb 26, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks much for this info, very informative.


                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, MOFWCABOOSE@... wrote:
                >
                > Michael is undoubtedly correct in that signals varied from railroad
                to
                > railroad. The following list is taken from a list I found in Walter
                L. Hayward's "A
                > Railroad Miscellany". He doesn't cite a source for his list, but I
                am inclined
                > to suspect the Union Pacific.
                >
                > One short: Stop, apply brakes.
                > Two long: Release brakes.
                > One long, three short: Flagman protect rear of train.
                > Four long: Flagman return from west or south.
                > Five long: Flagman return from east or north.
                > Three long: Train parted.
                > Two short: Answer to any signal not otherwise provided for.
                > Three short: When train is standing; back up. When (passenger)
                train is
                > running, warning to mail clerks of approaching mail crane at
                station.
                > Four short: Call for signals.
                > Two long, one short, one long: Approaching public crossing, tunnels
                and
                > obscured curves.
                > Continuous very long blast: to be commenced one mile before
                reaching
                > stations, junctions, draw bridges, railroad crossings, and mail
                cranes located between
                > stations. When standing, apply air from rear of train.
                > Two long, one short: Approaching meeting or waiting points.
                > One short, one long: Inspect brake line for leaks or sticking
                brakes.
                > Two short, one long: Engineer of second engine take control of air
                brakes.
                > When second engineer has control, he repeats this signal.
                > Two short, pause, two short: Engineer of second engine assist in
                recharging
                > brake line.
                > Many short: Warning to person or livestock on track.
                >
                > As is evident, many of these signals were to the crew on the
                caboose or the
                > crew of the second locomotive on a double-header. The crew on the
                caboose had
                > no way to answer back. Most of these signals went out with the
                advent of
                > radios, except for the grade crossing warnings, which are still
                heard except in
                > towns where NIMBY pressure has resulted in local ordnances against
                them.
                >
                > John C. La Rue, Jr.
                > Bonita Springs, FL
                >
                >
                > **************
                > Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on
                > AOL Living.
                >
                > (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-
                campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Michael Hilliard
                ... --- ... --- ... ---, that s all I know, SOS, HELP!!. Micheal Glen Chenier wrote: Thanks much for this info, very
                Message 7 of 19 , Feb 26, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  ... --- ... --- ... ---, that's all I know, SOS, HELP!!.

                  Micheal

                  Glen Chenier <glen@...> wrote:
                  Thanks much for this info, very informative.

                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, MOFWCABOOSE@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Michael is undoubtedly correct in that signals varied from railroad
                  to
                  > railroad. The following list is taken from a list I found in Walter
                  L. Hayward's "A
                  > Railroad Miscellany". He doesn't cite a source for his list, but I
                  am inclined
                  > to suspect the Union Pacific.
                  >
                  > One short: Stop, apply brakes.
                  > Two long: Release brakes.
                  > One long, three short: Flagman protect rear of train.
                  > Four long: Flagman return from west or south.
                  > Five long: Flagman return from east or north.
                  > Three long: Train parted.
                  > Two short: Answer to any signal not otherwise provided for.
                  > Three short: When train is standing; back up. When (passenger)
                  train is
                  > running, warning to mail clerks of approaching mail crane at
                  station.
                  > Four short: Call for signals.
                  > Two long, one short, one long: Approaching public crossing, tunnels
                  and
                  > obscured curves.
                  > Continuous very long blast: to be commenced one mile before
                  reaching
                  > stations, junctions, draw bridges, railroad crossings, and mail
                  cranes located between
                  > stations. When standing, apply air from rear of train.
                  > Two long, one short: Approaching meeting or waiting points.
                  > One short, one long: Inspect brake line for leaks or sticking
                  brakes.
                  > Two short, one long: Engineer of second engine take control of air
                  brakes.
                  > When second engineer has control, he repeats this signal.
                  > Two short, pause, two short: Engineer of second engine assist in
                  recharging
                  > brake line.
                  > Many short: Warning to person or livestock on track.
                  >
                  > As is evident, many of these signals were to the crew on the
                  caboose or the
                  > crew of the second locomotive on a double-header. The crew on the
                  caboose had
                  > no way to answer back. Most of these signals went out with the
                  advent of
                  > radios, except for the grade crossing warnings, which are still
                  heard except in
                  > towns where NIMBY pressure has resulted in local ordnances against
                  them.
                  >
                  > John C. La Rue, Jr.
                  > Bonita Springs, FL
                  >
                  >
                  > **************
                  > Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on
                  > AOL Living.
                  >
                  > (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-
                  campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Larry Card
                  ... I believe they do, but I remember seeing that light flashing all through the night so I know that is a skill that was still being maintained as late as
                  Message 8 of 19 , Feb 27, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    > Do navy signalmen still learn semaphore? A lot of us radio types
                    > learned it as well in the navy as we could converse with friends on
                    > other ships when travelling close by other ships while refueling etc.
                    > We did not use flags just are arms for such purposes. It is one skill
                    > I can no longer use.

                    I believe they do, but I remember seeing that light flashing all through the night so I know that is a skill that was still being maintained as late as 2003. I think the Bluejacket's Manual still has the semaphore alphabet in it. Morse Code, too.
                    V/R
                    Larry P. Card
                    Franklinton NC

                    _________________________________________________________________
                    Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your HotmailĀ®-get your "fix".
                    http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jeff BAZ-man
                    WB 6 EDN (spaced for SPAM reasons) Jeff SF Bay Area Z ... in ... listen ... code ... key ... up ... listening ... circuit ... the ... end ... for ... sent ...
                    Message 9 of 19 , Feb 27, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      WB 6 EDN (spaced for SPAM reasons)

                      Jeff
                      SF Bay Area Z

                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hamilton" <garthah@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > This is not about Z so if not interested press delete now.
                      >
                      > Hello Michael and Mr Dave
                      >
                      > In answer to your question
                      >
                      > I have been a ham since 1962 and was a commercial radio operator
                      in
                      > the Navy before that. The difference between the Radio version of
                      > Morse Code and the Land Line code is one of perception.
                      >
                      > If you were to listen to a radio operator using a hand key and
                      listen
                      > to his up and down movement of key in his hand you can read the
                      code
                      > by reading the spaces between the down click and up click of the
                      key
                      > as the key is held up by a spring and a stop screw limits how far
                      up
                      > it goes. The operator works against this spring to key down.
                      > Listening to the clicks of the hand key is essentially like
                      listening
                      > to land line code. The railway used a simple make and brake
                      circuit
                      > with a coil and brass sonding bar for sending code and when the
                      > operator holds his key down the sounder at the other end goes down
                      > and stays down until the sending operator releases his key hence
                      the
                      > click and the clack of the sounder. So the listener at the other
                      end
                      > of the line is listening to the sending operators up and down
                      > movement of the key. On the radio waves we create or send a tone
                      for
                      > key down and silence for key up and so we can read the character
                      sent
                      > by the audio sound and word spacing and letter spacing is the
                      silence
                      > between teh letters and words. A longer period of silence is used
                      > between words than between letters.
                      >
                      > Is ham radio dying? Some aspects of the hobby are less ppopular
                      now
                      > that previously but we have not seen overall negative growth until
                      > recently when like other hobbies there is very little new blood
                      > coming into the hobbies like Model Railroading and Ham Radio as
                      the
                      > Video game is the new toy of today and the chat rooms you can talk
                      > around the world with a computer now instead of a radio and
                      antenna.
                      >
                      > Morse Code is no longer required to become a Ham in most
                      countries.
                      > The use of morse code at sea has also ceased and radio operators
                      for
                      > the US Coast Guard and Navy no longer need to learn the code or
                      send
                      > and receive it. When I went ot sea in the early 1960's it was
                      still
                      > the main means of communicating between ship and shore. Now it is
                      via
                      > Satelite Phone and Satelite Computer Networks. Today instead of
                      > sending a sitrep daily to your head office someone there can dial
                      up
                      > the ships computer and find out your position and anything else
                      they
                      > want to know about the ship right down to how much fuel is being
                      > burned per hour sea state temperature etc and on some ships they
                      can
                      > see video for the wheel house and engine control rooms live on
                      line
                      > and retreive video from the past 24 hours.
                      >
                      > In the military to qualify as a radio operator you had to be able
                      to
                      > send and receive 5 letter code groups at a speed of 21 wpm.
                      However
                      > most operators with as little as one year of operating experience
                      can
                      > send and recieve between 25 and 30 wpm. Operators with 5 or more
                      > years could frequenlty send and receive 40 wpm. My highest
                      > qualification was at 35 WPM in the Navy which qualified me to work
                      at
                      > a ship shore radio station in addition to ships at sea.
                      >
                      > cheers
                      > Garth VE3HO - for thsoe intersted in more info www.ve3ho.ca
                      >
                      > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Piersdorff"
                      > <countylovers@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "David George" <dgeorge24619@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > From: "David George" <dgeorge24619@>
                      > > > To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: : major engine problem! help-
                      "Germlish"
                      > > > Date: Saturday, February 23, 2008 4:54 PM
                      > > >
                      > > > Scott,
                      > > > Did not know of American/International Morse Codes.
                      > > > Must have been a "hoot"!
                      > > >
                      > > > Are Hams as active now as compared to earlier years?
                      > > >
                      > > > Mister Dave
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > Mister Dave, see
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Morse_code
                      > for
                      > > the whole story on the Morse codes.
                      > >
                      > > Having at one time studied International Morse, I was never able
                      to
                      > > understand how "click click" (not even "click clack") could ever
                      > > convey information compared to "dit dah", but I guess you had to
                      be
                      > > there.
                      > >
                      > > Michael
                      > >
                      >
                    • Bruce Wolff
                      I believe the CROR is based on the older, American Uniform Code of Operating Rules , or UCOR. I recall seeing the numerous whistle signals described in John
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 1, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I believe the CROR is based on the older, American "Uniform Code of
                        Operating Rules", or UCOR. I recall seeing the numerous whistle
                        signals described in John LaRue's posting, each with its own
                        paragraph letter, under Rule 14 in what was probably the UCOR. If
                        you look at the CROR at the URL below, you will notice many letters
                        missing (eg. c, g, h, i, j, k...). These are probably some of John's
                        whistle signals that had become obsolete by the time the CROR was
                        implemented.

                        On a related note, I was once driving a Greyhound Canada bus down BC
                        Highway 97A when the engineer of an oncoming Okanagan Valley Railway
                        locomotive cut his ditchlights and dimmed his headlight. At the time
                        I thought he was being courteous. Now I see that he was obeying Rule
                        17(b)(iii).

                        Regards,
                        Bruce
                        Detroit, USA


                        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Piersdorff"
                        <countylovers@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Chenier" <glen@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > John,
                        > >
                        > > Could you please add to this? What are the other whistle signals?
                        > >
                        >
                        > I don't think the list of whistle (horn) signals contained in the
                        > Canadian Rail Operating Rules (CROR) found on page 22 at
                        > http://ossus.tchmachines.com/~hrpcgbp/zip/cror2004.pdf is
                        > comprehensive - I suspect individual railways and railroads (Canada
                        and
                        > US, respectively) add to the list in their own operating rules
                        > (engineer to brakeman and back when radios are inoperable, for
                        > instance).
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.