Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Germlish

Expand Messages
  • David George
    From: David George To: Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: : major engine problem! help- Germlish Date:
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 24, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      From: "David George" <dgeorge24619@...>
      To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: : major engine problem! help-"Germlish"
      Date: Saturday, February 23, 2008 4:54 PM

      Scott,
      Did not know of American/International Morse Codes.
      Must have been a "hoot"!

      Are Hams as active now as compared to earlier years?

      Mister Dave

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Scott Laughlin
      To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 10:02 AM
      Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: : major engine problem! help-"Germlish"


      David,

      I looked at the site and indeed it is a mixed jargon. Being a ham
      radio operator and a dyed-in-the-wool Morse code operator the site
      reminded me of old Train Dispatchers (who spoke American Morse)
      changing over to International Morse when they became hams.
      Everything was fine until they got in too big a hurry and started
      mixing the two codes. They turned a radio contact on its ear. We
      called it BOX CAR. And it was fun.

      All the best,

      Scott



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Piersdorff
      ... Mister Dave, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Morse_code for the whole story on the Morse codes. Having at one time studied International Morse, I
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 24, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "David George" <dgeorge24619@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > From: "David George" <dgeorge24619@...>
        > To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: : major engine problem! help-"Germlish"
        > Date: Saturday, February 23, 2008 4:54 PM
        >
        > Scott,
        > Did not know of American/International Morse Codes.
        > Must have been a "hoot"!
        >
        > Are Hams as active now as compared to earlier years?
        >
        > Mister Dave
        >

        Mister Dave, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Morse_code for
        the whole story on the Morse codes.

        Having at one time studied International Morse, I was never able to
        understand how "click click" (not even "click clack") could ever
        convey information compared to "dit dah", but I guess you had to be
        there.

        Michael
      • Garth Hamilton
        This is not about Z so if not interested press delete now. Hello Michael and Mr Dave In answer to your question I have been a ham since 1962 and was a
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 24, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          This is not about Z so if not interested press delete now.

          Hello Michael and Mr Dave

          In answer to your question

          I have been a ham since 1962 and was a commercial radio operator in
          the Navy before that. The difference between the Radio version of
          Morse Code and the Land Line code is one of perception.

          If you were to listen to a radio operator using a hand key and listen
          to his up and down movement of key in his hand you can read the code
          by reading the spaces between the down click and up click of the key
          as the key is held up by a spring and a stop screw limits how far up
          it goes. The operator works against this spring to key down.
          Listening to the clicks of the hand key is essentially like listening
          to land line code. The railway used a simple make and brake circuit
          with a coil and brass sonding bar for sending code and when the
          operator holds his key down the sounder at the other end goes down
          and stays down until the sending operator releases his key hence the
          click and the clack of the sounder. So the listener at the other end
          of the line is listening to the sending operators up and down
          movement of the key. On the radio waves we create or send a tone for
          key down and silence for key up and so we can read the character sent
          by the audio sound and word spacing and letter spacing is the silence
          between teh letters and words. A longer period of silence is used
          between words than between letters.

          Is ham radio dying? Some aspects of the hobby are less ppopular now
          that previously but we have not seen overall negative growth until
          recently when like other hobbies there is very little new blood
          coming into the hobbies like Model Railroading and Ham Radio as the
          Video game is the new toy of today and the chat rooms you can talk
          around the world with a computer now instead of a radio and antenna.

          Morse Code is no longer required to become a Ham in most countries.
          The use of morse code at sea has also ceased and radio operators for
          the US Coast Guard and Navy no longer need to learn the code or send
          and receive it. When I went ot sea in the early 1960's it was still
          the main means of communicating between ship and shore. Now it is via
          Satelite Phone and Satelite Computer Networks. Today instead of
          sending a sitrep daily to your head office someone there can dial up
          the ships computer and find out your position and anything else they
          want to know about the ship right down to how much fuel is being
          burned per hour sea state temperature etc and on some ships they can
          see video for the wheel house and engine control rooms live on line
          and retreive video from the past 24 hours.

          In the military to qualify as a radio operator you had to be able to
          send and receive 5 letter code groups at a speed of 21 wpm. However
          most operators with as little as one year of operating experience can
          send and recieve between 25 and 30 wpm. Operators with 5 or more
          years could frequenlty send and receive 40 wpm. My highest
          qualification was at 35 WPM in the Navy which qualified me to work at
          a ship shore radio station in addition to ships at sea.

          cheers
          Garth VE3HO - for thsoe intersted in more info www.ve3ho.ca

          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Piersdorff"
          <countylovers@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "David George" <dgeorge24619@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > From: "David George" <dgeorge24619@>
          > > To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: : major engine problem! help-"Germlish"
          > > Date: Saturday, February 23, 2008 4:54 PM
          > >
          > > Scott,
          > > Did not know of American/International Morse Codes.
          > > Must have been a "hoot"!
          > >
          > > Are Hams as active now as compared to earlier years?
          > >
          > > Mister Dave
          > >
          >
          > Mister Dave, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Morse_code
          for
          > the whole story on the Morse codes.
          >
          > Having at one time studied International Morse, I was never able to
          > understand how "click click" (not even "click clack") could ever
          > convey information compared to "dit dah", but I guess you had to be
          > there.
          >
          > Michael
          >
        • David George
          Michael, Thanks for the link . I studied Morse code in Boy Scouts and then in US Army. I enjoyed reading and seeing the dits and dahs of long ago. Cordially,
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 24, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Michael,
            Thanks for the link .
            I studied Morse code in Boy Scouts and then in US Army.
            I enjoyed reading and seeing the dits and dahs of long ago.
            Cordially,
            Mister Dave
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Michael Piersdorff
            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:54 AM
            Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Germlish


            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "David George" <dgeorge24619@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > From: "David George" <dgeorge24619@...>
            > To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
            > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: : major engine problem! help-"Germlish"
            > Date: Saturday, February 23, 2008 4:54 PM
            >
            > Scott,
            > Did not know of American/International Morse Codes.
            > Must have been a "hoot"!
            >
            > Are Hams as active now as compared to earlier years?
            >
            > Mister Dave
            >

            Mister Dave, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Morse_code for
            the whole story on the Morse codes.

            Having at one time studied International Morse, I was never able to
            understand how "click click" (not even "click clack") could ever
            convey information compared to "dit dah", but I guess you had to be
            there.

            Michael





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David George
            Garth, As ever,,,,your talents amaze me. D. ... From: Garth Hamilton To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 6:34 PM Subject: [Z_Scale] Re:
            Message 5 of 19 , Feb 24, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Garth,
              As ever,,,,your talents amaze me.
              D.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Garth Hamilton
              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 6:34 PM
              Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Germlish


              Recent Activity
              a.. 2New Members
              Visit Your Group
              Yahoo! News
              Kevin Sites

              Get coverage of

              world crises.

              Yahoo! Finance
              It's Now Personal

              Guides, news,

              advice & more.

              Yahoo! Groups
              Wellness Spot

              A resource for living

              the Curves lifestyle.
              .


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • ronaldjhurley
              As did I Garth.... I was K1FKG a long time ago ron
              Message 6 of 19 , Feb 24, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                As did I Garth.... I was K1FKG a long time ago ron
                >
                > Garth,
                > As ever,,,,your talents amaze me.
                > D.
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Garth Hamilton
                > To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 6:34 PM
                > Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Germlish
                >
                >
                > Recent Activity
                > a.. 2New Members
                > Visit Your Group
                > Yahoo! News
                > Kevin Sites
                >
                > Get coverage of
                >
                > world crises.
                >
                > Yahoo! Finance
                > It's Now Personal
                >
                > Guides, news,
                >
                > advice & more.
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups
                > Wellness Spot
                >
                > A resource for living
                >
                > the Curves lifestyle.
                > .
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Larry Card
                ... Unless something has changed in the last 5 years or so, the US Navy signalmen still used Morse code on the signal lights (shuttered spotlights). The US
                Message 7 of 19 , Feb 24, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  > The use of morse code at sea has also ceased and radio operators for > the US Coast Guard and Navy no longer need to learn the code or send > and receive it.

                  Unless something has changed in the last 5 years or so, the US Navy signalmen still used Morse code on the signal lights (shuttered spotlights). The US Navy still uses flag signals as well, or did when I retired in '05. I don't know if it's still required training for pilots, but it used to be because TACAN station ID signals are in Morse code.
                  V/RLarry P. Card
                  Franklinton NC
                  _________________________________________________________________
                  Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
                  http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Garth Hamilton
                  Hi Larry; Pilots still need to know the code to identify radio navigation beacons both civil and military and yes signalmen in the military still use lights
                  Message 8 of 19 , Feb 25, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Larry;

                    Pilots still need to know the code to identify radio navigation
                    beacons both civil and military and yes signalmen in the military
                    still use lights for sending line of sight but I am not sure how much
                    operation use these modes of communication get today. Marine
                    navigation officers also need to know the code still for identifying
                    radio beacons. Morse code on a light is slow 15 wpm is considered
                    fastest operation speed and you certain build wrist strength working
                    the shutter on a 8 or 10 inch signal lamp.

                    Do navy signalmen still learn semaphore? A lot of us radio types
                    learned it as well in the navy as we could converse with friends on
                    other ships when travelling close by other ships while refueling etc.
                    We did not use flags just are arms for such purposes. It is one skill
                    I can no longer use.

                    cheers
                    Garth
                    --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Larry Card <lpcard@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > > The use of morse code at sea has also ceased and radio operators
                    for > the US Coast Guard and Navy no longer need to learn the code or
                    send > and receive it.
                    >
                    > Unless something has changed in the last 5 years or so, the US Navy
                    signalmen still used Morse code on the signal lights (shuttered
                    spotlights). The US Navy still uses flag signals as well, or did
                    when I retired in '05. I don't know if it's still required training
                    for pilots, but it used to be because TACAN station ID signals are in
                    Morse code.
                    > V/RLarry P. Card
                    > Franklinton NC
                    > _________________________________________________________________
                    > Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
                    > http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?
                    ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Glen Chenier
                    Maybe not specifically Z scale, but the telegrapher s art was the mainstay of railroad communications in times gone by, and no doubt the invention of the
                    Message 9 of 19 , Feb 25, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Maybe not specifically Z scale, but the telegrapher's art was the
                      mainstay of railroad communications in times gone by, and no doubt
                      the invention of the telegraph prevented many unexpected 'cornfield
                      meets'. Some of those guys were reputed to be able to copy 60+ words
                      per minute in their heads. Took them 40 years in the RR
                      telegrapher's shack to get that good. And who could even send that
                      fast - machine test maybe?

                      When did the railroads stop using Morse? Did they use teletype
                      between the Morse era and today's computerized communication (which
                      still uses the original Morse concept of timed electric pulses)? DCC
                      too depends on electric pulse timing to send codes to the locomotives.

                      I still remember hearing diesel locomitives in Canada sending out the
                      Morse 'Q' - dahdahdidah - in long, drawn out whistle blasts. Not
                      sure what it meant in railroad parlance, can anyone translate the
                      meaning? Did locomotives use other Morse symbols with their whistles?

                      A different and unusual sound effect at any model scale would be the
                      faint click-click of the telegraph sounder coming from a trackside
                      depot. Audio Realism!

                      Interesting that so many railroad modellers are also ham radio
                      operators. Maybe the electronics/mechanical aspects tie the hobbies
                      together. Maybe they just love great hobbies. Or maybe the making
                      of trees with wire armatures - a well known practice phrase for
                      beginning Morse operators learning to develop a rhythmic and properly
                      timed 'fist' is "Best Bent Wire Tree", which sounds something like
                      this (you have to chant it to get the rhythm):

                      Dahdididit dit dididit dah (Best)
                      Dahdididit dit dahdit dah (Bent)
                      Didahdah didit didahdit dit (Wire)
                      Dah didahdit dit dit (Tree)
                      (last word keyed to the rhythm of 'Shave... a haircut - two bits'

                      Glen
                      ex VE3EUK VE4GC VE3PFI VE3RZ






                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hamilton" <garthah@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > This is not about Z so if not interested press delete now.
                      >
                      > Hello Michael and Mr Dave
                      >
                      > In answer to your question
                      >
                      > I have been a ham since 1962 and was a commercial radio operator in
                      > the Navy before that. The difference between the Radio version of
                      > Morse Code and the Land Line code is one of perception.
                      >
                      > If you were to listen to a radio operator using a hand key and
                      listen
                      > to his up and down movement of key in his hand you can read the
                      code
                      > by reading the spaces between the down click and up click of the
                      key
                      > as the key is held up by a spring and a stop screw limits how far
                      up
                      > it goes. The operator works against this spring to key down.
                      > Listening to the clicks of the hand key is essentially like
                      listening
                      > to land line code. The railway used a simple make and brake circuit
                      > with a coil and brass sonding bar for sending code and when the
                      > operator holds his key down the sounder at the other end goes down
                      > and stays down until the sending operator releases his key hence
                      the
                      > click and the clack of the sounder. So the listener at the other
                      end
                      > of the line is listening to the sending operators up and down
                      > movement of the key. On the radio waves we create or send a tone
                      for
                      > key down and silence for key up and so we can read the character
                      sent
                      > by the audio sound and word spacing and letter spacing is the
                      silence
                      > between teh letters and words. A longer period of silence is used
                      > between words than between letters.

                      ...snip...
                    • MOFWCABOOSE@AOL.COM
                      The locomotive whistle signals were not related to Morse Code, but had a meaning all their own. In this case, the signal described (two longs, a short, and
                      Message 10 of 19 , Feb 25, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        The locomotive whistle signals were not related to Morse Code, but had a
                        meaning all their own. In this case, the signal described (two longs, a short,
                        and another long) was the standard warning given when approaching a grade
                        crossing. The last long was prelonged until the crossing was reached.

                        John C. La Rue, Jr.
                        Bonita Springs, FL


                        **************
                        Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on
                        AOL Living.

                        (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Glen Chenier
                        John, Could you please add to this? What are the other whistle signals? ... had a ... longs, a short, ... grade
                        Message 11 of 19 , Feb 25, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          John,

                          Could you please add to this? What are the other whistle signals?


                          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, MOFWCABOOSE@... wrote:
                          >
                          > The locomotive whistle signals were not related to Morse Code, but
                          had a
                          > meaning all their own. In this case, the signal described (two
                          longs, a short,
                          > and another long) was the standard warning given when approaching a
                          grade
                          > crossing. The last long was prelonged until the crossing was reached.
                          >
                          > John C. La Rue, Jr.
                          > Bonita Springs, FL
                          >
                        • Michael Piersdorff
                          ... I don t think the list of whistle (horn) signals contained in the Canadian Rail Operating Rules (CROR) found on page 22 at
                          Message 12 of 19 , Feb 25, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Chenier" <glen@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > John,
                            >
                            > Could you please add to this? What are the other whistle signals?
                            >

                            I don't think the list of whistle (horn) signals contained in the
                            Canadian Rail Operating Rules (CROR) found on page 22 at
                            http://ossus.tchmachines.com/~hrpcgbp/zip/cror2004.pdf is
                            comprehensive - I suspect individual railways and railroads (Canada and
                            US, respectively) add to the list in their own operating rules
                            (engineer to brakeman and back when radios are inoperable, for
                            instance).

                            It would be intersting to see and listen to a layout with some of these
                            sounds incorporated - I think it would require some sort of computer
                            control when the layout gets big enough for three or four trains
                            running at the same time, especially in a suburban environment (lots of
                            level crossings to signal).

                            Michael
                          • MOFWCABOOSE@AOL.COM
                            Michael is undoubtedly correct in that signals varied from railroad to railroad. The following list is taken from a list I found in Walter L. Hayward s A
                            Message 13 of 19 , Feb 25, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Michael is undoubtedly correct in that signals varied from railroad to
                              railroad. The following list is taken from a list I found in Walter L. Hayward's "A
                              Railroad Miscellany". He doesn't cite a source for his list, but I am inclined
                              to suspect the Union Pacific.

                              One short: Stop, apply brakes.
                              Two long: Release brakes.
                              One long, three short: Flagman protect rear of train.
                              Four long: Flagman return from west or south.
                              Five long: Flagman return from east or north.
                              Three long: Train parted.
                              Two short: Answer to any signal not otherwise provided for.
                              Three short: When train is standing; back up. When (passenger) train is
                              running, warning to mail clerks of approaching mail crane at station.
                              Four short: Call for signals.
                              Two long, one short, one long: Approaching public crossing, tunnels and
                              obscured curves.
                              Continuous very long blast: to be commenced one mile before reaching
                              stations, junctions, draw bridges, railroad crossings, and mail cranes located between
                              stations. When standing, apply air from rear of train.
                              Two long, one short: Approaching meeting or waiting points.
                              One short, one long: Inspect brake line for leaks or sticking brakes.
                              Two short, one long: Engineer of second engine take control of air brakes.
                              When second engineer has control, he repeats this signal.
                              Two short, pause, two short: Engineer of second engine assist in recharging
                              brake line.
                              Many short: Warning to person or livestock on track.

                              As is evident, many of these signals were to the crew on the caboose or the
                              crew of the second locomotive on a double-header. The crew on the caboose had
                              no way to answer back. Most of these signals went out with the advent of
                              radios, except for the grade crossing warnings, which are still heard except in
                              towns where NIMBY pressure has resulted in local ordnances against them.

                              John C. La Rue, Jr.
                              Bonita Springs, FL


                              **************
                              Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on
                              AOL Living.

                              (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Michael Piersdorff
                              ... to ... L. Hayward s A ... am inclined ... train is ... station. ... and ... reaching ... cranes located between ... brakes. ... brakes. ... recharging ...
                              Message 14 of 19 , Feb 25, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, MOFWCABOOSE@... wrote:
                                >
                                > Michael is undoubtedly correct in that signals varied from railroad
                                to
                                > railroad. The following list is taken from a list I found in Walter
                                L. Hayward's "A
                                > Railroad Miscellany". He doesn't cite a source for his list, but I
                                am inclined
                                > to suspect the Union Pacific.
                                >
                                > One short: Stop, apply brakes.
                                > Two long: Release brakes.
                                > One long, three short: Flagman protect rear of train.
                                > Four long: Flagman return from west or south.
                                > Five long: Flagman return from east or north.
                                > Three long: Train parted.
                                > Two short: Answer to any signal not otherwise provided for.
                                > Three short: When train is standing; back up. When (passenger)
                                train is
                                > running, warning to mail clerks of approaching mail crane at
                                station.
                                > Four short: Call for signals.
                                > Two long, one short, one long: Approaching public crossing, tunnels
                                and
                                > obscured curves.
                                > Continuous very long blast: to be commenced one mile before
                                reaching
                                > stations, junctions, draw bridges, railroad crossings, and mail
                                cranes located between
                                > stations. When standing, apply air from rear of train.
                                > Two long, one short: Approaching meeting or waiting points.
                                > One short, one long: Inspect brake line for leaks or sticking
                                brakes.
                                > Two short, one long: Engineer of second engine take control of air
                                brakes.
                                > When second engineer has control, he repeats this signal.
                                > Two short, pause, two short: Engineer of second engine assist in
                                recharging
                                > brake line.
                                > Many short: Warning to person or livestock on track.
                                >
                                > As is evident, many of these signals were to the crew on the
                                caboose or the
                                > crew of the second locomotive on a double-header. The crew on the
                                caboose had
                                > no way to answer back. Most of these signals went out with the
                                advent of
                                > radios, except for the grade crossing warnings, which are still
                                heard except in
                                > towns where NIMBY pressure has resulted in local ordnances against
                                them.


                                John, I have operated a few times as cabin crew and once as fireman
                                on the Canadian Museum of Science and Technology's excursion runs
                                (oil-fired Pacific, 1201). The brakeman carried with him a little
                                gizmo that plugged into the brake line at the rear of the last car
                                and which emitted an ear-piercing shriek when he pushed he button.
                                That was how he sent return messages to engineer and conductor at the
                                front of train. As I recall, the code in use was very much as you
                                described above for UP.

                                Michael

                                Michael
                              • Glen Chenier
                                Thanks much for this info, very informative. ... to ... L. Hayward s A ... am inclined ... train is ... station. ... and ... reaching ... cranes located
                                Message 15 of 19 , Feb 26, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thanks much for this info, very informative.


                                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, MOFWCABOOSE@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Michael is undoubtedly correct in that signals varied from railroad
                                  to
                                  > railroad. The following list is taken from a list I found in Walter
                                  L. Hayward's "A
                                  > Railroad Miscellany". He doesn't cite a source for his list, but I
                                  am inclined
                                  > to suspect the Union Pacific.
                                  >
                                  > One short: Stop, apply brakes.
                                  > Two long: Release brakes.
                                  > One long, three short: Flagman protect rear of train.
                                  > Four long: Flagman return from west or south.
                                  > Five long: Flagman return from east or north.
                                  > Three long: Train parted.
                                  > Two short: Answer to any signal not otherwise provided for.
                                  > Three short: When train is standing; back up. When (passenger)
                                  train is
                                  > running, warning to mail clerks of approaching mail crane at
                                  station.
                                  > Four short: Call for signals.
                                  > Two long, one short, one long: Approaching public crossing, tunnels
                                  and
                                  > obscured curves.
                                  > Continuous very long blast: to be commenced one mile before
                                  reaching
                                  > stations, junctions, draw bridges, railroad crossings, and mail
                                  cranes located between
                                  > stations. When standing, apply air from rear of train.
                                  > Two long, one short: Approaching meeting or waiting points.
                                  > One short, one long: Inspect brake line for leaks or sticking
                                  brakes.
                                  > Two short, one long: Engineer of second engine take control of air
                                  brakes.
                                  > When second engineer has control, he repeats this signal.
                                  > Two short, pause, two short: Engineer of second engine assist in
                                  recharging
                                  > brake line.
                                  > Many short: Warning to person or livestock on track.
                                  >
                                  > As is evident, many of these signals were to the crew on the
                                  caboose or the
                                  > crew of the second locomotive on a double-header. The crew on the
                                  caboose had
                                  > no way to answer back. Most of these signals went out with the
                                  advent of
                                  > radios, except for the grade crossing warnings, which are still
                                  heard except in
                                  > towns where NIMBY pressure has resulted in local ordnances against
                                  them.
                                  >
                                  > John C. La Rue, Jr.
                                  > Bonita Springs, FL
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > **************
                                  > Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on
                                  > AOL Living.
                                  >
                                  > (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-
                                  campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Michael Hilliard
                                  ... --- ... --- ... ---, that s all I know, SOS, HELP!!. Micheal Glen Chenier wrote: Thanks much for this info, very
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Feb 26, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    ... --- ... --- ... ---, that's all I know, SOS, HELP!!.

                                    Micheal

                                    Glen Chenier <glen@...> wrote:
                                    Thanks much for this info, very informative.

                                    --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, MOFWCABOOSE@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Michael is undoubtedly correct in that signals varied from railroad
                                    to
                                    > railroad. The following list is taken from a list I found in Walter
                                    L. Hayward's "A
                                    > Railroad Miscellany". He doesn't cite a source for his list, but I
                                    am inclined
                                    > to suspect the Union Pacific.
                                    >
                                    > One short: Stop, apply brakes.
                                    > Two long: Release brakes.
                                    > One long, three short: Flagman protect rear of train.
                                    > Four long: Flagman return from west or south.
                                    > Five long: Flagman return from east or north.
                                    > Three long: Train parted.
                                    > Two short: Answer to any signal not otherwise provided for.
                                    > Three short: When train is standing; back up. When (passenger)
                                    train is
                                    > running, warning to mail clerks of approaching mail crane at
                                    station.
                                    > Four short: Call for signals.
                                    > Two long, one short, one long: Approaching public crossing, tunnels
                                    and
                                    > obscured curves.
                                    > Continuous very long blast: to be commenced one mile before
                                    reaching
                                    > stations, junctions, draw bridges, railroad crossings, and mail
                                    cranes located between
                                    > stations. When standing, apply air from rear of train.
                                    > Two long, one short: Approaching meeting or waiting points.
                                    > One short, one long: Inspect brake line for leaks or sticking
                                    brakes.
                                    > Two short, one long: Engineer of second engine take control of air
                                    brakes.
                                    > When second engineer has control, he repeats this signal.
                                    > Two short, pause, two short: Engineer of second engine assist in
                                    recharging
                                    > brake line.
                                    > Many short: Warning to person or livestock on track.
                                    >
                                    > As is evident, many of these signals were to the crew on the
                                    caboose or the
                                    > crew of the second locomotive on a double-header. The crew on the
                                    caboose had
                                    > no way to answer back. Most of these signals went out with the
                                    advent of
                                    > radios, except for the grade crossing warnings, which are still
                                    heard except in
                                    > towns where NIMBY pressure has resulted in local ordnances against
                                    them.
                                    >
                                    > John C. La Rue, Jr.
                                    > Bonita Springs, FL
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > **************
                                    > Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on
                                    > AOL Living.
                                    >
                                    > (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-
                                    campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Larry Card
                                    ... I believe they do, but I remember seeing that light flashing all through the night so I know that is a skill that was still being maintained as late as
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Feb 27, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      > Do navy signalmen still learn semaphore? A lot of us radio types
                                      > learned it as well in the navy as we could converse with friends on
                                      > other ships when travelling close by other ships while refueling etc.
                                      > We did not use flags just are arms for such purposes. It is one skill
                                      > I can no longer use.

                                      I believe they do, but I remember seeing that light flashing all through the night so I know that is a skill that was still being maintained as late as 2003. I think the Bluejacket's Manual still has the semaphore alphabet in it. Morse Code, too.
                                      V/R
                                      Larry P. Card
                                      Franklinton NC

                                      _________________________________________________________________
                                      Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your HotmailĀ®-get your "fix".
                                      http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Jeff BAZ-man
                                      WB 6 EDN (spaced for SPAM reasons) Jeff SF Bay Area Z ... in ... listen ... code ... key ... up ... listening ... circuit ... the ... end ... for ... sent ...
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Feb 27, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        WB 6 EDN (spaced for SPAM reasons)

                                        Jeff
                                        SF Bay Area Z

                                        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hamilton" <garthah@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > This is not about Z so if not interested press delete now.
                                        >
                                        > Hello Michael and Mr Dave
                                        >
                                        > In answer to your question
                                        >
                                        > I have been a ham since 1962 and was a commercial radio operator
                                        in
                                        > the Navy before that. The difference between the Radio version of
                                        > Morse Code and the Land Line code is one of perception.
                                        >
                                        > If you were to listen to a radio operator using a hand key and
                                        listen
                                        > to his up and down movement of key in his hand you can read the
                                        code
                                        > by reading the spaces between the down click and up click of the
                                        key
                                        > as the key is held up by a spring and a stop screw limits how far
                                        up
                                        > it goes. The operator works against this spring to key down.
                                        > Listening to the clicks of the hand key is essentially like
                                        listening
                                        > to land line code. The railway used a simple make and brake
                                        circuit
                                        > with a coil and brass sonding bar for sending code and when the
                                        > operator holds his key down the sounder at the other end goes down
                                        > and stays down until the sending operator releases his key hence
                                        the
                                        > click and the clack of the sounder. So the listener at the other
                                        end
                                        > of the line is listening to the sending operators up and down
                                        > movement of the key. On the radio waves we create or send a tone
                                        for
                                        > key down and silence for key up and so we can read the character
                                        sent
                                        > by the audio sound and word spacing and letter spacing is the
                                        silence
                                        > between teh letters and words. A longer period of silence is used
                                        > between words than between letters.
                                        >
                                        > Is ham radio dying? Some aspects of the hobby are less ppopular
                                        now
                                        > that previously but we have not seen overall negative growth until
                                        > recently when like other hobbies there is very little new blood
                                        > coming into the hobbies like Model Railroading and Ham Radio as
                                        the
                                        > Video game is the new toy of today and the chat rooms you can talk
                                        > around the world with a computer now instead of a radio and
                                        antenna.
                                        >
                                        > Morse Code is no longer required to become a Ham in most
                                        countries.
                                        > The use of morse code at sea has also ceased and radio operators
                                        for
                                        > the US Coast Guard and Navy no longer need to learn the code or
                                        send
                                        > and receive it. When I went ot sea in the early 1960's it was
                                        still
                                        > the main means of communicating between ship and shore. Now it is
                                        via
                                        > Satelite Phone and Satelite Computer Networks. Today instead of
                                        > sending a sitrep daily to your head office someone there can dial
                                        up
                                        > the ships computer and find out your position and anything else
                                        they
                                        > want to know about the ship right down to how much fuel is being
                                        > burned per hour sea state temperature etc and on some ships they
                                        can
                                        > see video for the wheel house and engine control rooms live on
                                        line
                                        > and retreive video from the past 24 hours.
                                        >
                                        > In the military to qualify as a radio operator you had to be able
                                        to
                                        > send and receive 5 letter code groups at a speed of 21 wpm.
                                        However
                                        > most operators with as little as one year of operating experience
                                        can
                                        > send and recieve between 25 and 30 wpm. Operators with 5 or more
                                        > years could frequenlty send and receive 40 wpm. My highest
                                        > qualification was at 35 WPM in the Navy which qualified me to work
                                        at
                                        > a ship shore radio station in addition to ships at sea.
                                        >
                                        > cheers
                                        > Garth VE3HO - for thsoe intersted in more info www.ve3ho.ca
                                        >
                                        > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Piersdorff"
                                        > <countylovers@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "David George" <dgeorge24619@>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > From: "David George" <dgeorge24619@>
                                        > > > To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: : major engine problem! help-
                                        "Germlish"
                                        > > > Date: Saturday, February 23, 2008 4:54 PM
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Scott,
                                        > > > Did not know of American/International Morse Codes.
                                        > > > Must have been a "hoot"!
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Are Hams as active now as compared to earlier years?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Mister Dave
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Mister Dave, see
                                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Morse_code
                                        > for
                                        > > the whole story on the Morse codes.
                                        > >
                                        > > Having at one time studied International Morse, I was never able
                                        to
                                        > > understand how "click click" (not even "click clack") could ever
                                        > > convey information compared to "dit dah", but I guess you had to
                                        be
                                        > > there.
                                        > >
                                        > > Michael
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • Bruce Wolff
                                        I believe the CROR is based on the older, American Uniform Code of Operating Rules , or UCOR. I recall seeing the numerous whistle signals described in John
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Mar 1, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I believe the CROR is based on the older, American "Uniform Code of
                                          Operating Rules", or UCOR. I recall seeing the numerous whistle
                                          signals described in John LaRue's posting, each with its own
                                          paragraph letter, under Rule 14 in what was probably the UCOR. If
                                          you look at the CROR at the URL below, you will notice many letters
                                          missing (eg. c, g, h, i, j, k...). These are probably some of John's
                                          whistle signals that had become obsolete by the time the CROR was
                                          implemented.

                                          On a related note, I was once driving a Greyhound Canada bus down BC
                                          Highway 97A when the engineer of an oncoming Okanagan Valley Railway
                                          locomotive cut his ditchlights and dimmed his headlight. At the time
                                          I thought he was being courteous. Now I see that he was obeying Rule
                                          17(b)(iii).

                                          Regards,
                                          Bruce
                                          Detroit, USA


                                          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Piersdorff"
                                          <countylovers@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Chenier" <glen@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > John,
                                          > >
                                          > > Could you please add to this? What are the other whistle signals?
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > I don't think the list of whistle (horn) signals contained in the
                                          > Canadian Rail Operating Rules (CROR) found on page 22 at
                                          > http://ossus.tchmachines.com/~hrpcgbp/zip/cror2004.pdf is
                                          > comprehensive - I suspect individual railways and railroads (Canada
                                          and
                                          > US, respectively) add to the list in their own operating rules
                                          > (engineer to brakeman and back when radios are inoperable, for
                                          > instance).
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.