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Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Ebay seller fees going up - AGAIN

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  • robertfage@aol.com
    Well, ebay can hurt as far as I am concerned... they are ripping us off on this side of the pond as well. I have been trading on ebay for 7 years come this
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 31, 2008
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      Well, ebay can hurt as far as I am concerned... they are ripping us off on
      this side of the pond as well. I have been trading on ebay for 7 years come
      this June. I have a total feedback of 3,025 and 1,697 individual trades. I
      have not bought any items on ebay in the past year and the last item I sold
      was late November 2007...why? to expensive. I closed my shop over a year back
      on ebay. Why the hell do I want to sell my Z gauge on ebay for less then I
      paid for it when it is new and unused? I got rid on 99% of my Marklin locos and
      rolling stock so I could go over to MTL type coupling. These days I spend
      the pennies with people like Loren... he can afford two meals a day now! Bob
      Fage (in the UK) (still got that spoon if anyone wants to go a round or two?)






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • n_2_z_scale
      ... then ... fees ... websites ... not ... $15 a ... one ... name ... I have used Ebay quite often in the past. I also had Paypal buttons on my website for Z
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 31, 2008
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        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "w7gsa" <w7gsa@...> wrote:
        >
        > I read this morning that Ebay fees are going up AGAIN next month.
        > This time they are going to lower the cost of listing an item and
        then
        > almost double the fees when the item is sold. PLUS, the PayPal
        fees
        > of course.
        >
        > I think it is time for someone to start a Free, or ultra low cost,
        > classified web page for Z scale and/or Marklin trains.
        >
        > I am a ham radio operator. There are several Free classified
        websites
        > if you want to sell your ham radio equipment. One of the sites
        > requests that you make a donation if your item sells, but you are
        not
        > obligated to do so. The other one charges something like $10 or
        $15 a
        > year and you can buy and sell all of the stuff you want for that
        one
        > price. And the third one is totally Free.
        >
        > I don't have a problem with a company making a nice profit, but I
        > believe that some companies like ebay and the oil companies (to
        name
        > two) have crossed the line between profit and GREED.
        >
        > What do you think?
        >
        > Bill
        >


        I have used Ebay quite often in the past. I also had Paypal buttons
        on my website for Z decals. I am still fuming over the last time
        Ebay raised prices. I miss the old Ebay!!

        Now, finding an alternative source to sell items. What you first
        need to do is ask why do people use Ebay to begin with? If you
        think it's to just get rid of their items, WRONG!!!! With Ebay
        their are more people that will possibly drive bids super high
        bringing the seller more $$$$$$ than if a seller lists an item in
        Ztrack, or on Z Central Station, or on the Trainboard. Remember,
        the World revolves around $$$$$$$$$$$ and that's a fact.

        I am pretty much Ebay'd out now. I don't have much Z to sell, but
        if this is true and Ebay is raising the After Sale fees, then I am
        pretty much finished with them. It's this after sale fee that
        pisses me off!!!! &*%*&$^*#^*^#$*$*^#^*&^%*&#%*&^ that's how I
        feel!!!

        Now, why do you list your items on Ebay????

        Do you want Maximum $$$$$$

        or

        Do you just want what you think you might get????

        Very Big Difference!!!!!

        N2Z
      • Loren
        Well, if they are hurting........then I m bleeding to death. I don t know what the truth is....wish I did. Loren, MTL country. ... From: Don A
        Message 3 of 21 , Jan 31, 2008
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          Well, if they are hurting........then I'm bleeding to death.

          I don't know what the truth is....wish I did.

          Loren, MTL country.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Don A" <d.f.avila@...>
          To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 9:38 AM
          Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Ebay seller fees going up - AGAIN


          > FWIW there was an article in the Wall Street Journal within the last 1
          > or 2 days that indicated Ebay was 'hurting'.
          >
          > ...don, northern ohio, USA
        • Loren
          Actually Bob, it is about a meal and one spoonful these days. I m doing some real serious thinking on this ebay issue. There s got to be a better way to
          Message 4 of 21 , Jan 31, 2008
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            Actually Bob, it is about a meal and one spoonful these days.

            I'm doing some real serious thinking on this ebay issue. There's got to be
            a better way to convince the world to come knocking at my door.
            Well shucks, as long as I'm trying to make my seconed million, (first one
            didn't work out) I might as well announce that the new expansion packs of
            micro track are now in at MTL and I have them in my grubby little hands. So
            step right up folks and put your hard earned dimes and quarter down and pick
            up some packs from me.......or Aaron...........or Anthony......and the rest
            of the dealers.
            There......that ought to be fair and unbiased.

            Loren

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <robertfage@...>
            To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 10:15 AM
            Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Ebay seller fees going up - AGAIN


            > Well, ebay can hurt as far as I am concerned... they are ripping us off on
            > this side of the pond as well. I have been trading on ebay for 7 years
            > come
            > this June. I have a total feedback of 3,025 and 1,697 individual trades.
            > I
            > have not bought any items on ebay in the past year and the last item I
            > sold
            > was late November 2007...why? to expensive. I closed my shop over a year
            > back
            > on ebay. Why the hell do I want to sell my Z gauge on ebay for less then
            > I
            > paid for it when it is new and unused? I got rid on 99% of my Marklin
            > locos and
            > rolling stock so I could go over to MTL type coupling. These days I spend
            > the pennies with people like Loren... he can afford two meals a day now!
            > Bob
            > Fage (in the UK) (still got that spoon if anyone wants to go a round or
            > two?)
            >
          • Zane H. Healy
            ... Good grief! And to think that I was considering selling some stuff from one hobby to fund purchases in another (neither are trains). Where do you find
            Message 5 of 21 , Jan 31, 2008
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              > I read this morning that Ebay fees are going up AGAIN next month.
              > This time they are going to lower the cost of listing an item and then
              > almost double the fees when the item is sold. PLUS, the PayPal fees
              > of course.

              Good grief! And to think that I was considering selling some stuff from one
              hobby to fund purchases in another (neither are trains).

              Where do you find info on just what the fees will be?

              Zane
            • w7gsa
              Hi Loren, There is this guy in Ulm, Germany who had a nice little train store in the city center. He did a good business. Then the Internet came along and
              Message 6 of 21 , Jan 31, 2008
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                Hi Loren,

                There is this guy in Ulm, Germany who had a nice little train store in
                the city center. He did a good business. Then the Internet came
                along and rather then fight it, he adopted it and he has gone from
                having a good business to having a great business. (No, I can remember
                the name of his shop, but I know how to get there and where to park)

                His prices and merchandise online are the as in his walk-in store.
                Yes, he sells on ebay.de also. He uses his online sales tools to
                promote his store. He even promotes his store on ebay. He goes to
                train swaps and in addition to selling stuff, he hands out cards with
                his website and email address on them.

                He uses what is known as the "Hong-Kong" business model. That model
                says that it is better to make a sale with even a small profit then
                not to make the sale at all. For example, it is better to sell a
                Locomotive for $100 and just make $1.00 profit then not sell the
                locomotive at all. Generally, people in the United States can not
                relate to that mindset.

                The world of commerce is changing and it is good that you are taking
                the time to think about it.

                Bill






                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
                >
                > Actually Bob, it is about a meal and one spoonful these days.
                >
                > I'm doing some real serious thinking on this ebay issue. There's
                got to be
                > a better way to convince the world to come knocking at my door.
                > Well shucks, as long as I'm trying to make my seconed million,
                (first one
                > didn't work out) I might as well announce that the new expansion
                packs of
                > micro track are now in at MTL and I have them in my grubby little
                hands. So
                > step right up folks and put your hard earned dimes and quarter down
                and pick
                > up some packs from me.......or Aaron...........or Anthony......and
                the rest
                > of the dealers.
                > There......that ought to be fair and unbiased.
                >
                > Loren
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: <robertfage@...>
                > To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 10:15 AM
                > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Ebay seller fees going up - AGAIN
                >
                >
                > > Well, ebay can hurt as far as I am concerned... they are ripping
                us off on
                > > this side of the pond as well. I have been trading on ebay for 7
                years
                > > come
                > > this June. I have a total feedback of 3,025 and 1,697 individual
                trades.
                > > I
                > > have not bought any items on ebay in the past year and the last
                item I
                > > sold
                > > was late November 2007...why? to expensive. I closed my shop
                over a year
                > > back
                > > on ebay. Why the hell do I want to sell my Z gauge on ebay for
                less then
                > > I
                > > paid for it when it is new and unused? I got rid on 99% of my
                Marklin
                > > locos and
                > > rolling stock so I could go over to MTL type coupling. These days
                I spend
                > > the pennies with people like Loren... he can afford two meals a
                day now!
                > > Bob
                > > Fage (in the UK) (still got that spoon if anyone wants to go a
                round or
                > > two?)
                > >
                >
              • Loren
                Bill, I can see your point and it may well be true. With that said though I can t spend my time making a dollar profit on a large ticket item, or for that
                Message 7 of 21 , Jan 31, 2008
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                  Bill,
                  I can see your point and it may well be true. With that said though I can't
                  spend my time making a dollar profit on a large ticket item, or for that
                  matter a smaller ticket item when I consider how long it took me to make
                  that dollar. I know many in the world work for a few bucks a day, but here
                  in America where we are all spoiled beyond belief, we have to make mega
                  bucks to afford the items we want.

                  I don't sell MTL for a living, but more for the love of the folks and
                  helping Z grow. I make my money at a different profession.
                  Actually when I stop to think about it, selling product takes away a lot of
                  time I could be playing with trains and having more fun that way.
                  Kind of a catch 22 maybe.
                  Still thinking,

                  Loren
                  Z Train Things

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "w7gsa" <w7gsa@...>
                  To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 1:02 PM
                  Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Ebay seller fees going up - AGAIN


                  > Hi Loren,
                  >
                  > There is this guy in Ulm, Germany who had a nice little train store in
                  > the city center. He did a good business. Then the Internet came
                  > along and rather then fight it, he adopted it and he has gone from
                  > having a good business to having a great business. (No, I can remember
                  > the name of his shop, but I know how to get there and where to park)
                  >
                  > His prices and merchandise online are the as in his walk-in store.
                  > Yes, he sells on ebay.de also. He uses his online sales tools to
                  > promote his store. He even promotes his store on ebay. He goes to
                  > train swaps and in addition to selling stuff, he hands out cards with
                  > his website and email address on them.
                  >
                  > He uses what is known as the "Hong-Kong" business model. That model
                  > says that it is better to make a sale with even a small profit then
                  > not to make the sale at all. For example, it is better to sell a
                  > Locomotive for $100 and just make $1.00 profit then not sell the
                  > locomotive at all. Generally, people in the United States can not
                  > relate to that mindset.
                  >
                  > The world of commerce is changing and it is good that you are taking
                  > the time to think about it.
                  >
                  > Bill
                  >
                • robertfage@aol.com
                  Surely Loren Z gauge or G gauge for that matter beats teeth? .... besides if you were not doing Z, I would not have half as much fun in the hobby. Z is
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jan 31, 2008
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                    Surely Loren Z gauge or G gauge for that matter beats teeth? .... besides if
                    you were not doing Z, I would not have half as much fun in the hobby. Z is
                    something special...where else would you get love and kisses (except from
                    Joe...still wondering about that Joe!). Over this side of the pond we do not have
                    that many shops selling MTL, let alone Z gauge, so you look for an honest
                    dealer or someone like Loren..he put his services on offer and I took him up and
                    I have nothing to complain about. I have dealt with one or two shops in the
                    USA. Had a few bad experiences as Rob knows. Not all are the same. Bit like
                    Ebay, some good things have come out of it, especially in the early days when
                    it was fun and cheap. These days it is a rat race. I for one will not make
                    them richer any more.

                    Bob Fage (in the UK)






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • loren snyder
                    ... besides if ... hobby. Z is ... from ... We all know that Joe has been a very busy boy of late and finally......management is beginning to give him some
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jan 31, 2008
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                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, robertfage@... wrote:
                      >
                      > Surely Loren Z gauge or G gauge for that matter beats teeth? ....
                      besides if
                      > you were not doing Z, I would not have half as much fun in the
                      hobby. Z is
                      > something special...where else would you get love and kisses (except
                      from
                      > Joe...still wondering about that Joe!).

                      We all know that Joe has been a very busy boy of late and
                      finally......management is beginning to give him some credit for his
                      ideas and vision. Of course, if Joe had his way about it, MTL would
                      produce nothing but SP. So I guess we can be glad Joe isn't dictator
                      just yet :o)
                      And about those kisses from Joe......I think I'll pass on this one..

                      And teeth? I've done it so long I can almost do it without thinking,
                      (which gives me more time to day dream about Z scale and my lack of
                      time to actually do it) and teeth make me some good money, unlike Z
                      scale which makes me some money and after all is said and done I'm not
                      sure just how much is being made.

                      Still wishing folks would just drop by and say....."here, I don't need
                      this money, you take it" Now that idea I could sink my teeth into.

                      Loren
                    • Reynard Wellman
                      Hi Zane, Supply and demand will straighten them out. They need sellers as much as they need buyers. If they become too heavy handed, folks will find another
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jan 31, 2008
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                        Hi Zane,
                        Supply and demand will straighten them out.
                        They need sellers as much as they need buyers.
                        If they become too heavy handed, folks will find
                        another way and believe me they'll take note
                        very quickly if alternatives (competition) are offered
                        to their website and many of their sellers say "bye-bye".

                        The other ways are: 1] decrease inventory and trade;
                        2] raise prices (already happening);
                        3] put up with smaller profit margins but by staying, keep
                        your volume growing as the weaker sellers drop out.

                        This "statistics" stuff is detestable but actually works!

                        Reynard
                        On Jan 31, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:

                        > > I read this morning that Ebay fees are going up AGAIN next month.
                        > > This time they are going to lower the cost of listing an item and
                        > then
                        > > almost double the fees when the item is sold. PLUS, the PayPal fees
                        > > of course.
                        >
                        > Good grief! And to think that I was considering selling some stuff
                        > from one
                        > hobby to fund purchases in another (neither are trains).
                        >
                        > Where do you find info on just what the fees will be?
                        >
                        > Zane
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Reynard Wellman
                        Hello Bill, This is might be advice for those who are buying and selling products 100% of the time and are on a diet. We in the US have the world s business
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jan 31, 2008
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                          Hello Bill,

                          This is might be advice for those who are buying and selling
                          products 100% of the time and are on a diet. We in the US have the
                          world's business models for buying and selling (i.e. Walmart, etc).
                          So we know how to compete. The internet was invented and developed
                          here too. Many US sellers do exactly the same things you mentioned in
                          the story about the little shop in Germany and they are successful.

                          And for myself and my fellow Americans I like to work for a
                          full meal, not just a bowl of soup.

                          Regards,
                          Reynard



                          On Jan 31, 2008, at 1:02 PM, w7gsa wrote:

                          > Hi Loren,
                          >
                          > There is this guy in Ulm, Germany who had a nice little train store in
                          > the city center. He did a good business. Then the Internet came
                          > along and rather then fight it, he adopted it and he has gone from
                          > having a good business to having a great business. (No, I can remember
                          > the name of his shop, but I know how to get there and where to park)
                          >
                          > His prices and merchandise online are the as in his walk-in store.
                          > Yes, he sells on ebay.de also. He uses his online sales tools to
                          > promote his store. He even promotes his store on ebay. He goes to
                          > train swaps and in addition to selling stuff, he hands out cards with
                          > his website and email address on them.
                          >
                          > He uses what is known as the "Hong-Kong" business model. That model
                          > says that it is better to make a sale with even a small profit then
                          > not to make the sale at all. For example, it is better to sell a
                          > Locomotive for $100 and just make $1.00 profit then not sell the
                          > locomotive at all. Generally, people in the United States can not
                          > relate to that mindset.
                          >
                          > The world of commerce is changing and it is good that you are taking
                          > the time to think about it.
                          >
                          > Bill
                          >
                          > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Actually Bob, it is about a meal and one spoonful these days.
                          > >
                          > > I'm doing some real serious thinking on this ebay issue. There's
                          > got to be
                          > > a better way to convince the world to come knocking at my door.
                          > > Well shucks, as long as I'm trying to make my seconed million,
                          > (first one
                          > > didn't work out) I might as well announce that the new expansion
                          > packs of
                          > > micro track are now in at MTL and I have them in my grubby little
                          > hands. So
                          > > step right up folks and put your hard earned dimes and quarter down
                          > and pick
                          > > up some packs from me.......or Aaron...........or Anthony......and
                          > the rest
                          > > of the dealers.
                          > > There......that ought to be fair and unbiased.
                          > >
                          > > Loren
                          > >
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: <robertfage@...>
                          > > To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 10:15 AM
                          > > Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Ebay seller fees going up - AGAIN
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > > Well, ebay can hurt as far as I am concerned... they are ripping
                          > us off on
                          > > > this side of the pond as well. I have been trading on ebay for 7
                          > years
                          > > > come
                          > > > this June. I have a total feedback of 3,025 and 1,697 individual
                          > trades.
                          > > > I
                          > > > have not bought any items on ebay in the past year and the last
                          > item I
                          > > > sold
                          > > > was late November 2007...why? to expensive. I closed my shop
                          > over a year
                          > > > back
                          > > > on ebay. Why the hell do I want to sell my Z gauge on ebay for
                          > less then
                          > > > I
                          > > > paid for it when it is new and unused? I got rid on 99% of my
                          > Marklin
                          > > > locos and
                          > > > rolling stock so I could go over to MTL type coupling. These days
                          > I spend
                          > > > the pennies with people like Loren... he can afford two meals a
                          > day now!
                          > > > Bob
                          > > > Fage (in the UK) (still got that spoon if anyone wants to go a
                          > round or
                          > > > two?)
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • trainnut88@aol.com
                          Hi, Do you have the older cars, Well I DO **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jan 31, 2008
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                            Hi, Do you have the older cars, Well I DO



                            **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                            http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • basstuy
                            i am building a site fore free np question is howe do i secure that a offer is serieus, ore do we left that between the parties and do we only the advertising
                            Message 13 of 21 , Feb 1, 2008
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                              i am building a site fore free np question is howe do i secure that
                              a offer is serieus, ore do we left that between the parties and do
                              we only the advertising and let whe the handling between the
                              parties??
                              Input is welcome

                              Bastiaan Stuy

                              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "w7gsa" <w7gsa@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I read this morning that Ebay fees are going up AGAIN next month.
                              > This time they are going to lower the cost of listing an item and
                              then
                              > almost double the fees when the item is sold. PLUS, the PayPal
                              fees
                              > of course.
                              >
                              > I think it is time for someone to start a Free, or ultra low cost,
                              > classified web page for Z scale and/or Marklin trains.
                              >
                              > I am a ham radio operator. There are several Free classified
                              websites
                              > if you want to sell your ham radio equipment. One of the sites
                              > requests that you make a donation if your item sells, but you are
                              not
                              > obligated to do so. The other one charges something like $10 or
                              $15 a
                              > year and you can buy and sell all of the stuff you want for that
                              one
                              > price. And the third one is totally Free.
                              >
                              > I don't have a problem with a company making a nice profit, but I
                              > believe that some companies like ebay and the oil companies (to
                              name
                              > two) have crossed the line between profit and GREED.
                              >
                              > What do you think?
                              >
                              > Bill
                              >
                            • w7gsa
                              A note from me, Michael, It s apparently my job is to say something and let Bill do so as well. Bill, you must be a relitivly new member because you are on
                              Message 14 of 21 , Feb 1, 2008
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                                A note from me, Michael, It's apparently my job is to say something and let Bill do so as well. Bill, you must be a relitivly new member because you are on moderated staus. All new members are moderated first to pevent spam to the list, 2 to make sure they have a sincere intrest in Z and not just out for other than spam reasons, but related (e.g. e-mail address harvesting). I have no desire to step on free Z speach, just keep it courtius to all. BTW, none of the moderators of this group are paid, it's all volunteer for the love of Z Scale & to protect our members.

                                Michael, and back to Bill:

                                Hi Loren,

                                I knew that post was going to come back and haunt me as soon as I sent it.

                                In the classic explanation of the Hong Kong model, the example is
                                making $1 on a Rolex watch. Which of course you can't do for very
                                long and stay in business.

                                The basic theory is that it is better to make a sale even if you have
                                to discount your profit then not make the sale. It is a "one sum"
                                game. Every time you make a sale you get one point. Every time you
                                don't make the sale you get zero or -1 points.

                                Now, which would you rather do...Sell one item and make $10 profit or
                                sell ten of the same items and make $1 per item?

                                The Hong Kong model says that you are far better off selling the 10
                                items and making $1 profit. This has to do with the customers
                                attitude toward the sale (all 10 customers), the higher chance that
                                you will have repete business for those ten sales, the number of
                                people that had an experience doing business with you, your ability to
                                buy in greater volumn, etc.

                                The European-distributor model that we use in Europe and the US says
                                that you are better off making $10 off of the one item.

                                However, If you look at the retailers that are extremely successful,
                                like IKEA, COSTCO, WalMart, Aldi Foods, etc., you will see that they
                                are all using a variant of of the Hong Kong model.

                                If you look at why so many people have commented on this thread is
                                that eBay is NOT using the Hong Kong model, and in fact is going the
                                other direction.

                                That is why some European and American manufactures have come yp with
                                schemes like "Minimum Advertised Price" which they make their dealers
                                adhere to. The classic example of that is Leica Camera, and we all
                                know what happened to them.

                                I hope I made the concept a little clearer.

                                Bill








                                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Bill,
                                > I can see your point and it may well be true. With that said though
                                I can't
                                > spend my time making a dollar profit on a large ticket item, or for
                                that
                                > matter a smaller ticket item when I consider how long it took me to
                                make
                                > that dollar. I know many in the world work for a few bucks a day,
                                but here
                                > in America where we are all spoiled beyond belief, we have to make mega
                                > bucks to afford the items we want.
                                >
                                > I don't sell MTL for a living, but more for the love of the folks and
                                > helping Z grow. I make my money at a different profession.
                                > Actually when I stop to think about it, selling product takes away a
                                lot of
                                > time I could be playing with trains and having more fun that way.
                                > Kind of a catch 22 maybe.
                                > Still thinking,
                                >
                                > Loren
                                > Z Train Things
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "w7gsa" <w7gsa@...>
                                > To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 1:02 PM
                                > Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Ebay seller fees going up - AGAIN
                                >
                                >
                                > > Hi Loren,
                                > >
                                > > There is this guy in Ulm, Germany who had a nice little train store in
                                > > the city center. He did a good business. Then the Internet came
                                > > along and rather then fight it, he adopted it and he has gone from
                                > > having a good business to having a great business. (No, I can remember
                                > > the name of his shop, but I know how to get there and where to park)
                                > >
                                > > His prices and merchandise online are the as in his walk-in store.
                                > > Yes, he sells on ebay.de also. He uses his online sales tools to
                                > > promote his store. He even promotes his store on ebay. He goes to
                                > > train swaps and in addition to selling stuff, he hands out cards with
                                > > his website and email address on them.
                                > >
                                > > He uses what is known as the "Hong-Kong" business model. That model
                                > > says that it is better to make a sale with even a small profit then
                                > > not to make the sale at all. For example, it is better to sell a
                                > > Locomotive for $100 and just make $1.00 profit then not sell the
                                > > locomotive at all. Generally, people in the United States can not
                                > > relate to that mindset.
                                > >
                                > > The world of commerce is changing and it is good that you are taking
                                > > the time to think about it.
                                > >
                                > > Bill
                                > >
                                >
                              • Loren
                                Bill, I understand the concept better now that you explained it a bit. I guess that is why we do things the way we do huh. I would like to propose the Snyder
                                Message 15 of 21 , Feb 2, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Bill,
                                  I understand the concept better now that you explained it a bit. I guess
                                  that is why we do things the way we do huh.

                                  I would like to propose the Snyder model......and everyone can also adopt
                                  this model and adapt it to their own last name. It should work equally as
                                  well for any one of us. Of course the trick is to find stupid people to
                                  believe you........here's the Snyder model, and it is so simple you will ask
                                  yourself "now why didn't I think of that in the first place?"

                                  First off, keep your entry way swept and free from dirt and litter.
                                  Secondly, place a new welcome mat out front and make sure the entrance to
                                  your house is protected from the weather.
                                  Third, make sure you have a woking door bell and a very pleasant sounding
                                  chime.
                                  Fourth, be prompt to answer the door when you hear the bell.

                                  Here's how it works.....in theory. When the kind folks come to your door
                                  and ring the bell, you immediately go to the door and open it quickly and
                                  smile and say in a very cheerful tone of voice......"welcome"

                                  Now this is the tricky part and I'm not sure everyone who comes to your door
                                  will always be willing to buy into this scheme, but if enough do, then you
                                  are set for life.

                                  The visistor is then supposed to reach forward, place cash in your hand and
                                  say..."hear I don't want this or need this.....I thought you'd like to have
                                  it"

                                  It doesn't matter if all folks participate or not, just a few a day will
                                  definitely enhance your living experience.

                                  Now doesn't that sound like a good model?

                                  Ok, enough sick humor. I was just trying to catch a deep breath in all this
                                  heaviness.

                                  Let me say in a serious tone that all dealers, manufacturers and interested
                                  parties all wish this whole buying and selling issue were easier and fairer
                                  to all. But, since it isn't, we all must strive to keep this hobby fun,
                                  enlightening, growing and in a good light for the rest of the world to see.

                                  Go find time to work on your modules, design something new, solve a train
                                  problem or just sit there and admire your trains while sipping on your
                                  favorite beverage and munching pop corn, or whatever you munch on a Saturday
                                  night.
                                  Loren


                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "w7gsa" <w7gsa@...>
                                  To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:27 PM
                                  Subject: [Z_Scale] Loren - - - Re: Ebay seller fees going up - AGAIN & a
                                  Note....


                                  >A note from me, Michael, It's apparently my job is to say something and let
                                  >Bill do so as well. Bill, you must be a relitivly new member because you
                                  >are on moderated staus. All new members are moderated first to pevent spam
                                  >to the list, 2 to make sure they have a sincere intrest in Z and not just
                                  >out for other than spam reasons, but related (e.g. e-mail address
                                  >harvesting). I have no desire to step on free Z speach, just keep it
                                  >courtius to all. BTW, none of the moderators of this group are paid, it's
                                  >all volunteer for the love of Z Scale & to protect our members.
                                  >
                                  > Michael, and back to Bill:
                                  >
                                  > Hi Loren,
                                  >
                                  > I knew that post was going to come back and haunt me as soon as I sent it.
                                  >
                                  > In the classic explanation of the Hong Kong model, the example is
                                  > making $1 on a Rolex watch. Which of course you can't do for very
                                  > long and stay in business.
                                  >
                                  > The basic theory is that it is better to make a sale even if you have
                                  > to discount your profit then not make the sale. It is a "one sum"
                                  > game. Every time you make a sale you get one point. Every time you
                                  > don't make the sale you get zero or -1 points.
                                  >
                                  > Now, which would you rather do...Sell one item and make $10 profit or
                                  > sell ten of the same items and make $1 per item?
                                  >
                                  > The Hong Kong model says that you are far better off selling the 10
                                  > items and making $1 profit. This has to do with the customers
                                  > attitude toward the sale (all 10 customers), the higher chance that
                                  > you will have repete business for those ten sales, the number of
                                  > people that had an experience doing business with you, your ability to
                                  > buy in greater volumn, etc.
                                  >
                                  > The European-distributor model that we use in Europe and the US says
                                  > that you are better off making $10 off of the one item.
                                  >
                                  > However, If you look at the retailers that are extremely successful,
                                  > like IKEA, COSTCO, WalMart, Aldi Foods, etc., you will see that they
                                  > are all using a variant of of the Hong Kong model.
                                  >
                                  > If you look at why so many people have commented on this thread is
                                  > that eBay is NOT using the Hong Kong model, and in fact is going the
                                  > other direction.
                                  >
                                  > That is why some European and American manufactures have come yp with
                                  > schemes like "Minimum Advertised Price" which they make their dealers
                                  > adhere to. The classic example of that is Leica Camera, and we all
                                  > know what happened to them.
                                  >
                                  > I hope I made the concept a little clearer.
                                  >
                                  > Bill
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >> Bill,
                                  >> I can see your point and it may well be true. With that said though
                                  > I can't
                                  >> spend my time making a dollar profit on a large ticket item, or for
                                  > that
                                  >> matter a smaller ticket item when I consider how long it took me to
                                  > make
                                  >> that dollar. I know many in the world work for a few bucks a day,
                                  > but here
                                  >> in America where we are all spoiled beyond belief, we have to make mega
                                  >> bucks to afford the items we want.
                                  >>
                                  >> I don't sell MTL for a living, but more for the love of the folks and
                                  >> helping Z grow. I make my money at a different profession.
                                  >> Actually when I stop to think about it, selling product takes away a
                                  > lot of
                                  >> time I could be playing with trains and having more fun that way.
                                  >> Kind of a catch 22 maybe.
                                  >> Still thinking,
                                  >>
                                  >> Loren
                                  >> Z Train Things
                                  >>
                                  >> ----- Original Message -----
                                  >> From: "w7gsa" <w7gsa@...>
                                  >> To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                  >> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 1:02 PM
                                  >> Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Ebay seller fees going up - AGAIN
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> > Hi Loren,
                                  >> >
                                  >> > There is this guy in Ulm, Germany who had a nice little train store in
                                  >> > the city center. He did a good business. Then the Internet came
                                  >> > along and rather then fight it, he adopted it and he has gone from
                                  >> > having a good business to having a great business. (No, I can remember
                                  >> > the name of his shop, but I know how to get there and where to park)
                                  >> >
                                  >> > His prices and merchandise online are the as in his walk-in store.
                                  >> > Yes, he sells on ebay.de also. He uses his online sales tools to
                                  >> > promote his store. He even promotes his store on ebay. He goes to
                                  >> > train swaps and in addition to selling stuff, he hands out cards with
                                  >> > his website and email address on them.
                                  >> >
                                  >> > He uses what is known as the "Hong-Kong" business model. That model
                                  >> > says that it is better to make a sale with even a small profit then
                                  >> > not to make the sale at all. For example, it is better to sell a
                                  >> > Locomotive for $100 and just make $1.00 profit then not sell the
                                  >> > locomotive at all. Generally, people in the United States can not
                                  >> > relate to that mindset.
                                  >> >
                                  >> > The world of commerce is changing and it is good that you are taking
                                  >> > the time to think about it.
                                  >> >
                                  >> > Bill
                                  >> >
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Z-scale: minimum siZe, MAXIMUM enjoyment!
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
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