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Re: fixing 0-8-8-0 Marklin Mallet.

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  • Jeff BAZ-man
    So was the pin missing originally? Why would this pin need to be added in a standard production version? Jeff SF Bay Area Z ... to ... in ... pinned ... I ...
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 2, 2007
      So was the pin missing originally? Why would this pin need to be
      added in a standard production version?

      Jeff
      SF Bay Area Z

      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Garth Hamilton <garthah@...> wrote:
      >
      > I do not know if anyone else out there has had problems with this
      > engine but Glenn and Sandy Stiska have a fix and gave me a clue as
      to
      > the cure. They will do the work for a modest fee. At least modest
      in
      > my estimation.
      >
      > The blind gear that is not pinned in the tower just has to be
      pinned
      > in place. No quite so easy as it is said. I used a piece of copper
      > not brass tubing. The tubing was .0635 inches in OD or 1.62 mm and
      I
      > spun solder onto it to increase the OD to .0725 inches or 1.84mm
      and
      > soldered a drill bit shank into the end of the tube. The drill bit
      > was a slide fit into the tube and it was soldered in place before
      > the spin soldering of the tube was done. The drill bit was .032
      > inches which is a No. 67 bit. When you look at your engine you
      will
      > see on one side the hole is bigger than on the other. So I cut the
      > drill shank so that .070 inches or 1.8 mm are showing and then
      > pressed it into the hole. I was a tight fit going through the hole
      in
      > the wheel wiper and I made sure the shaft did not protrude very
      far
      > from the smaller hole on the other side of the tower. Once I was
      sure
      > of the fit. I cut the tubing about .08 inches or 2.0 mm long and
      > result is a stub shaft sticking out of a hub and the whole
      assembly
      > is about .15 of an inch long. Once in place I used a drop of nail
      > varnish over the hub end only to hold it in the larger hole. This
      > stub shaft prevents the blind gear in the tower from moving out of
      > position. The nail varnish will also prevent a short should it
      work
      > it way out of position. This brass tubing is a standard size from
      KS
      > in my LHS. Total time to make two of these a fit them about 90
      > minutes. The tough part is spinning solder to increase the OD.
      This
      > is a bit of an art and if you use a small amount of epoxy or
      locktite
      > you can fix the tubing hub in place with out getting it to be a
      press
      > fit. You could also fit the drill shank in place in the tubing
      using
      > the same products. To solder the drill shank into the brass tube
      you
      > will need a special flux for use in soldering stainless steel to
      > copper and brass. This hub goes into the chassis far enough to
      hold
      > gear against far side of the tower while allowing it to rotate
      freely
      > and the drill shank becomes the axle for the blind gear and
      protrudes
      > slightly from the smaller hole. The tower is just under .15 of an
      > inch wide or 3.8mm.
      >
      > regards
      > Garth
      >
    • Garth Hamilton
      Hi Jeff I expect there was a plan for there to be a pin here but it was either missed on production set up or they could not fit it with the production
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 2, 2007
        Hi Jeff

        I expect there was a plan for there to be a pin here but it was
        either missed on production set up or they could not fit it with the
        production equipment. I do not recall there ever being a pin here and
        this means the gear which is steel floats in the slot between the
        nylon or plastic gear that connects with the worm and the two axle
        gears and over time the clearance increases to the point where the
        system jams up when the gear moves to far to one side and no longers
        contacts both axle gears. I expect with only casual running it does
        not happen any time soon but appears after a period of continual
        running and sitting between shows. Since Glenn and Sandy Stiska have
        a fix for it they have obviously seen the problem at least once and
        fixed it.

        regards
        Garth



        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff BAZ-man" <sjbazman49@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > So was the pin missing originally? Why would this pin need to be
        > added in a standard production version?
        >
        > Jeff
        > SF Bay Area Z
        >
        > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Garth Hamilton <garthah@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I do not know if anyone else out there has had problems with this
        > > engine but Glenn and Sandy Stiska have a fix and gave me a clue
        as
        > to
        > > the cure. They will do the work for a modest fee. At least modest
        > in
        > > my estimation.
        > >
        > > The blind gear that is not pinned in the tower just has to be
        > pinned
        > > in place. No quite so easy as it is said. I used a piece of
        copper
        > > not brass tubing. The tubing was .0635 inches in OD or 1.62 mm
        and
        > I
        > > spun solder onto it to increase the OD to .0725 inches or 1.84mm
        > and
        > > soldered a drill bit shank into the end of the tube. The drill
        bit
        > > was a slide fit into the tube and it was soldered in place
        before
        > > the spin soldering of the tube was done. The drill bit was .032
        > > inches which is a No. 67 bit. When you look at your engine you
        > will
        > > see on one side the hole is bigger than on the other. So I cut
        the
        > > drill shank so that .070 inches or 1.8 mm are showing and then
        > > pressed it into the hole. I was a tight fit going through the
        hole
        > in
        > > the wheel wiper and I made sure the shaft did not protrude very
        > far
        > > from the smaller hole on the other side of the tower. Once I was
        > sure
        > > of the fit. I cut the tubing about .08 inches or 2.0 mm long and
        > > result is a stub shaft sticking out of a hub and the whole
        > assembly
        > > is about .15 of an inch long. Once in place I used a drop of nail
        > > varnish over the hub end only to hold it in the larger hole. This
        > > stub shaft prevents the blind gear in the tower from moving out
        of
        > > position. The nail varnish will also prevent a short should it
        > work
        > > it way out of position. This brass tubing is a standard size from
        > KS
        > > in my LHS. Total time to make two of these a fit them about 90
        > > minutes. The tough part is spinning solder to increase the OD.
        > This
        > > is a bit of an art and if you use a small amount of epoxy or
        > locktite
        > > you can fix the tubing hub in place with out getting it to be a
        > press
        > > fit. You could also fit the drill shank in place in the tubing
        > using
        > > the same products. To solder the drill shank into the brass tube
        > you
        > > will need a special flux for use in soldering stainless steel to
        > > copper and brass. This hub goes into the chassis far enough to
        > hold
        > > gear against far side of the tower while allowing it to rotate
        > freely
        > > and the drill shank becomes the axle for the blind gear and
        > protrudes
        > > slightly from the smaller hole. The tower is just under .15 of an
        > > inch wide or 3.8mm.
        > >
        > > regards
        > > Garth
        > >
        >
      • Garth Hamilton
        Here is the text of the message that I placed on the Z-scale forum early last month. I do not know if anyone else out there has had problems with this engine
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 1, 2007
          Here is the text of the message that I placed on the Z-scale forum
          early last month.

          I do not know if anyone else out there has had problems with this
          engine (Marklin 0-8-8-0 Mallet) but Glenn and Sandy Stiska have a fix
          and gave me a clue as to the cure. They will do the work for a modest
          fee. At least modest in my estimation.

          The blind gear that is not pinned in the tower just has to be pinned
          in place. No quite so easy as it is said. It appears that over time
          with wear that the clearances open up enough to allow the blind gear
          to move laterally in the tower and when they do go it grabs the
          inside of the casting and looses contact with one of the axle gears
          and the whole thing jams up and stops. Classic symptom is side rods
          out of alinement.

          I used a piece of copper not brass tubing. The tubing was .0635
          inches in OD or 1.62 mm and I spun solder onto it to increase the OD
          to .0725 inches or 1.84mm after soldered a drill bit shank into the
          end of the tube. The drill bit was a slide fit into the tube and it
          was soldered in place before the spin soldering of the tube was done.
          The drill bit was .032 inches which is a No. 67 bit. When you look at
          your engine you will see on one side the hole is bigger than on the
          other. So I cut the drill shank so that .070 inches or 1.8 mm are
          showing and then pressed it into the hole. It was a tight fit going
          through the hole in the wheel wiper and I made sure the shaft did not
          protrude very far from the smaller hole on the other side of the
          tower. Once I was sure of the fit. I cut the tubing about .08 inches
          or 2.0 mm long and result is a stub shaft sticking out of a hub and
          the whole assembly is about .15 of an inch long. Once in place I used
          a drop of black nail varnish over the hub end only to hold it in the
          larger hole. This stub shaft prevents the blind gear in the tower
          from moving out of position laterally. The nail varnish will also
          prevent a short should it work its way out of position and touch the
          pickup strip. This brass tubing is a standard size from KS in my LHS.
          Total time to make two of these a fit them about 90 minutes. The
          tough part is spinning solder to increase the OD. This is a bit of an
          art and if you use a small amount of epoxy or locktite you can fix
          the tubing hub in place with out getting it to be a press fit. You
          could also fit the drill shank in place in the tubing using the same
          products. However when using these products there is a chance of
          contaminating the inside of the tower and freezing the gear(s) in
          place. To solder the drill shank into the brass tube you will need a
          special flux for use in soldering stainless steel to copper and
          brass. This hub goes into the chassis far enough to hold gear against
          far side of the tower while allowing it to rotate freely it is held
          upright and the drill shank becomes the axle for the blind gear and
          protrudes slightly from the smaller hole on the opposite side of the
          tower. The tower is just under .15 of an inch wide or 3.8mm.

          Here is some additional information on my make over.

          I used a K36 boiler shell and extended the firebox area a bit and
          used a K27 cab for my 2-8-8-2 Mallet and built my front porch from
          salvage from a Rivarossi Mallet pilot. My K27's will pull easily 20
          cars around my layout and the Mallet will pull 30 cars with the same
          ease. There is a picture of my beast under construction on my web
          site www.nn3.ca for those interested.

          Spin soldering - I chuck the pieces of tubing in a 3 jaw hand crank
          drill and clamp the hand drill in a vise with the crank on top and
          the tubing extending out horizontally. The tubing has to extend
          beyond the chuck by at least 3 inches for my 15 watt iron to do the
          job. I heat the end of the tubing and get it coated with solder and
          then start the crank and as the tub turns add more solder to it while
          keeping the heat to it. Then when it is flowing nicely I with draw
          the heat and solder and continue spinning and after the colour
          changes I let it sit for a bit and then dress it with a file while
          turning it. Then check to OD to see if it is close to what I want. I
          learned this trick in a silver smithing class.

          regards
          Garth
        • Loren Snyder
          Hi Garth, While I didn t try to carefully visualize every detail in your description of your repair procedures, (I don t have one of those beasts that is
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 1, 2007
            Hi Garth,

            While I didn't try to carefully visualize every detail in your description
            of your repair procedures, (I don't have one of those beasts that is acting
            up), I couldn't help but feel a sense of appreciation and pride in the
            detailed report you shared of your repair procedures. Your account gives
            the reader a concise analysis of what you did to repair the loco.

            In other words, I am impressed with the thought that you put forth in
            sharing your adventures in the "Mallet repair manual" It isn't easy to put
            your thoughts into words when writing instructions so that the reader will
            be able to visualize and understand what you are saying. Robert Ray once
            told me that writing instructions for a kit is the hardest part of the
            project.

            And to think that today there are folks out there who look at our tiny
            trains and think, "how cute".........never imagining the amount of detail,
            effort, and dedication that we Z modelers put forth to "make em run right"

            Me thinks that we Z scalers are a special bunch, whether the rest of the
            world knows it or not.

            Great job on the narrative....."equal to a case study report in the American
            medical journal"

            Good job Dr. Garth :O)

            Loren

            -------Original Message-------

            From: Garth Hamilton
            Date: 11/1/2007 7:31:22 AM
            To: Z_scale@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Z_Scale] fixing 0-8-8-0 Marklin Mallet.

            Here is the text of the message that I placed on the Z-scale forum
            early last month.

            I do not know if anyone else out there has had problems with this
            engine (Marklin 0-8-8-0 Mallet) but Glenn and Sandy Stiska have a fix
            and gave me a clue as to the cure. They will do the work for a modest
            fee. At least modest in my estimation.

            The blind gear that is not pinned in the tower just has to be pinned
            in place. No quite so easy as it is said. It appears that over time
            with wear that the clearances open up enough to allow the blind gear
            to move laterally in the tower and when they do go it grabs the
            inside of the casting and looses contact with one of the axle gears
            and the whole thing jams up and stops. Classic symptom is side rods
            out of alinement.

            I used a piece of copper not brass tubing. The tubing was .0635
            inches in OD or 1.62 mm and I spun solder onto it to increase the OD
            to .0725 inches or 1.84mm after soldered a drill bit shank into the
            end of the tube. The drill bit was a slide fit into the tube and it
            was soldered in place before the spin soldering of the tube was done.
            The drill bit was .032 inches which is a No. 67 bit. When you look at
            your engine you will see on one side the hole is bigger than on the
            other. So I cut the drill shank so that .070 inches or 1.8 mm are
            showing and then pressed it into the hole. It was a tight fit going
            through the hole in the wheel wiper and I made sure the shaft did not
            protrude very far from the smaller hole on the other side of the
            tower. Once I was sure of the fit. I cut the tubing about .08 inches
            or 2.0 mm long and result is a stub shaft sticking out of a hub and
            the whole assembly is about .15 of an inch long. Once in place I used
            a drop of black nail varnish over the hub end only to hold it in the
            larger hole. This stub shaft prevents the blind gear in the tower
            from moving out of position laterally. The nail varnish will also
            prevent a short should it work its way out of position and touch the
            pickup strip. This brass tubing is a standard size from KS in my LHS.
            Total time to make two of these a fit them about 90 minutes. The
            tough part is spinning solder to increase the OD. This is a bit of an
            art and if you use a small amount of epoxy or locktite you can fix
            the tubing hub in place with out getting it to be a press fit. You
            could also fit the drill shank in place in the tubing using the same
            products. However when using these products there is a chance of
            contaminating the inside of the tower and freezing the gear(s) in
            place. To solder the drill shank into the brass tube you will need a
            special flux for use in soldering stainless steel to copper and
            brass. This hub goes into the chassis far enough to hold gear against
            far side of the tower while allowing it to rotate freely it is held
            upright and the drill shank becomes the axle for the blind gear and
            protrudes slightly from the smaller hole on the opposite side of the
            tower. The tower is just under .15 of an inch wide or 3.8mm.

            Here is some additional information on my make over.

            I used a K36 boiler shell and extended the firebox area a bit and
            used a K27 cab for my 2-8-8-2 Mallet and built my front porch from
            salvage from a Rivarossi Mallet pilot. My K27's will pull easily 20
            cars around my layout and the Mallet will pull 30 cars with the same
            ease. There is a picture of my beast under construction on my web
            site www.nn3.ca for those interested.

            Spin soldering - I chuck the pieces of tubing in a 3 jaw hand crank
            drill and clamp the hand drill in a vise with the crank on top and
            the tubing extending out horizontally. The tubing has to extend
            beyond the chuck by at least 3 inches for my 15 watt iron to do the
            job. I heat the end of the tubing and get it coated with solder and
            then start the crank and as the tub turns add more solder to it while
            keeping the heat to it. Then when it is flowing nicely I with draw
            the heat and solder and continue spinning and after the colour
            changes I let it sit for a bit and then dress it with a file while
            turning it. Then check to OD to see if it is close to what I want. I
            learned this trick in a silver smithing class.

            regards
            Garth






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Glen Chenier
            ... gives ... ... Thank you Garth for sharing your skills. Garth s very detailed and informative article has been added to the wealth of information in the Z
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 1, 2007
              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren Snyder" <ljsnyder@...> wrote:
              ... I couldn't help but feel a sense of appreciation and pride in the
              > detailed report you shared of your repair procedures. Your account
              gives
              > the reader a concise analysis of what you did to repair the loco.
              ...

              Thank you Garth for sharing your skills. Garth's very detailed and
              informative article has been added to the wealth of information in
              the Z Scale enZyclopedia under Performance/Locomotives. For those
              not familiar with this feature of our Z_Scale list, scroll halfway
              down the home page and find the link between the home page photo and
              the most recent messages:

              "Got questions? Get answers!
              Z_Scale enZyclopedia
              (Everything you ever wanted to know about Z but didn't know where to
              look!)"

              And speaking of Home Page Photos, there are only 5 more left in the
              chute. I try to change the photo between once a week to twice a
              week, and soon more will be needed. To submit your favorite Z Scale
              photo just upload it to the Home Page Photo folder with title,
              description, name of owner, and credit for any items in the photo
              built by a fellow modeller. These photos will be captioned with the
              same information and placed on the Home Page in the chronological
              order in which they were posted.
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