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[Z_Scale] Re: MTL Production Numbers

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  • Zane H. Healy
    ... I d just like to point out that I m not saying I want everything I want for my trains NOW! Quite the opposite, I m happy to wait, and add an item here and
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 3, 2007
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      At 9:56 AM +0000 6/3/07, Allan Miller wrote:
      >I'm not sure what the problem is with today's consumer-hobbyists.
      >They seem to want everything that THEY want, and they want it NOW! I
      >see this in the other scales I model, and in some or most cases it is
      >doing more harm to the hobby than good. As I've said so often in

      I'd just like to point out that I'm not saying I want everything I
      want for my trains NOW! Quite the opposite, I'm happy to wait, and
      add an item here and there. It helps to keep things affordable.

      What I am saying is that when I walk into a train store a couple days
      after a new car, or cars are announced and am informed that I can't
      buy them, because the store is sold out and can't get any more from
      MTL, I consider this to be a problem.

      Call me strange, but I for one would rather pay more to support a
      store in my own community, I don't want to have to order online from
      another state. In fact this is one reason that I really like buying
      MTL products, I'm an Oregonian, and by buying MTL I'm helping to
      support an Oregon business.

      >If MTL or someone else announces something you want to buy, establish
      >a good, regular relationship with a dealer and get your order placed
      >on their list. Otherwise, take your chances when the item is
      >eventually released and find a dealer who has it available or shop the
      >secondary market.

      >My feeling is that MTL, in particular, has done a very good job in
      >giving folks a heads-up about what they are planning, and estimating
      >when it may be available. They try to be realistic in meeting the

      OK, I'm curious, am I missing something here? We know that the Army
      train is coming around the bend, and that the GP9's are on the way.
      We actually know what the first GP9 will be. We also know about the
      passenger cars and F8's (or is it E8). I'd like the Army train, but
      will probably pass on it, unless I happen to get lucky and spot it in
      my FLHS and decide on a whim to buy it. The rest I'll be wanting to
      buy if I can get the roads I'm collecting.

      All of the above info is very vague though, and it's hard to place
      orders on vague. Can you tell me what the July cars are? This is
      what I'm talking about. How are we to know if any of the July cars
      are anything we want to get? By the time we do find out if they are
      something we want, we run the risk of them being sold out before we
      can get them.

      Zane


      --
      | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
      | healyzh@... (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
      | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
      +----------------------------------+----------------------------+
      | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
      | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
      | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
    • Mike D.
      Uwe I have never seen a response so eloquently worded, you are truly the politician! I vote for you for Mayor of Zville, will someone second the nomination?
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 3, 2007
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        Uwe I have never seen a response so eloquently worded, you are truly the
        politician! I vote for you for Mayor of Zville, will someone second the
        nomination? I�ve never seen such a swift �reverse 180� are you into racing
        too?

        In regards to second runs being cheaper for MTL to do that�s simply
        ridiculous even with existing molds, labor has gone up and so is every other
        aspect of manufacturing. Tooling could have even changed requiring mold
        modifications or complete rework of the molds/new molds altogether. So no it
        won�t be cheaper even with the very same production house.

        Another question that comes to mind, why are they beating to death the same
        old lines? Why aren�t they doing anything in the Fallen Flags lines? Those
        lines are still being modeled in fairly large numbers and most of the stuff
        is coming from the cottage industry side of MRR, thank the almighty for
        those guy�s if it weren�t for them we�d all be running BNSF, CSX, UP, and
        SP.

        Just take a look at what Chad did recently, with only some help from Uncle
        Will, he brought in the Bill K. car, On Time, At Cost. He didn�t sit in a
        conference room bickering with the N Scale team and he didn�t have to
        connive management for a budget, AND he didn�t leave a Single modeler
        hanging in the lurch.

        All this makes one Really Appreciate all the efforts of Robert, Tim, Rob,
        Loren, Uncle Will, Trainnut and now Chad. Thanks Guys you are truly the
        Gucci�s and Armani�s of small scale model railroading today!

        Aaron, I can always expect to see some responsible and pertinent to the
        subject at hand when I read your posts. Hopefully someone at MTL will take
        heed of your suggestion?

        To take that a step further they should also have regional reps to include
        Canada, Germany, Switzerland, Norway and Denmark or at the very least an
        order/pre-order form on the MTL website where they could then offer the reps
        exclusive access to projected sales in their areas. MTL should also come to
        terms with the fact that they aren�t a little company any more. Trust me
        there is nothing sitting on the shelves of my LHS for more than a day or two
        excepting the standard stock of Micro-Track. If I�m not there by Friday of
        the week it�s released, well shame on me.

        Right now they are the largest supplier of mass produced Z scale items, this
        won�t always be the case. Other manufacturers are bound to see the revenue
        potential and squeeze their way in as well. The stunt with the N Scale Pan
        Am car won you more than a few disgruntled fans (not the best marketing
        approach ever deployed). Also why didn�t we even see this car in Z scale?
        Hmmm?

        /s/ Another HAVE TO HAVE IT RIGHT NOW, hurting the Hobby, Z Scale enthusiast



        >From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@...>
        >Reply-To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        >To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: MTL Production Numbers
        >Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 12:54:03 -0700
        >
        >At 9:56 AM +0000 6/3/07, Allan Miller wrote:
        > >I'm not sure what the problem is with today's consumer-hobbyists.
        > >They seem to want everything that THEY want, and they want it NOW! I
        > >see this in the other scales I model, and in some or most cases it is
        > >doing more harm to the hobby than good. As I've said so often in
        >
        >I'd just like to point out that I'm not saying I want everything I
        >want for my trains NOW! Quite the opposite, I'm happy to wait, and
        >add an item here and there. It helps to keep things affordable.
        >
        >What I am saying is that when I walk into a train store a couple days
        >after a new car, or cars are announced and am informed that I can't
        >buy them, because the store is sold out and can't get any more from
        >MTL, I consider this to be a problem.
        >
        >Call me strange, but I for one would rather pay more to support a
        >store in my own community, I don't want to have to order online from
        >another state. In fact this is one reason that I really like buying
        >MTL products, I'm an Oregonian, and by buying MTL I'm helping to
        >support an Oregon business.
        >
        > >If MTL or someone else announces something you want to buy, establish
        > >a good, regular relationship with a dealer and get your order placed
        > >on their list. Otherwise, take your chances when the item is
        > >eventually released and find a dealer who has it available or shop the
        > >secondary market.
        >
        > >My feeling is that MTL, in particular, has done a very good job in
        > >giving folks a heads-up about what they are planning, and estimating
        > >when it may be available. They try to be realistic in meeting the
        >
        >OK, I'm curious, am I missing something here? We know that the Army
        >train is coming around the bend, and that the GP9's are on the way.
        >We actually know what the first GP9 will be. We also know about the
        >passenger cars and F8's (or is it E8). I'd like the Army train, but
        >will probably pass on it, unless I happen to get lucky and spot it in
        >my FLHS and decide on a whim to buy it. The rest I'll be wanting to
        >buy if I can get the roads I'm collecting.
        >
        >All of the above info is very vague though, and it's hard to place
        >orders on vague. Can you tell me what the July cars are? This is
        >what I'm talking about. How are we to know if any of the July cars
        >are anything we want to get? By the time we do find out if they are
        >something we want, we run the risk of them being sold out before we
        >can get them.
        >
        > Zane
        >
        >
        >--
        >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
        >| healyzh@... (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
        >| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
        >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
        >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
        >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
        >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

        _________________________________________________________________
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      • Don Avila
        We can talk to ourselves until we are blue in the face. It is the two sisters at MTL that have to be convinces there is money in Z. ... the
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 3, 2007
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          We can talk to ourselves until we are blue in the face.

          It is the two sisters at MTL that have to be convinces there is money
          in Z.

          ...don

          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Mike D." <zscaletrains@...> wrote:
          >
          > Uwe I have never seen a response so eloquently worded, you are truly
          the
          > politician!
        • Karin Svenson
          ... money ... Don, just don t turn into one of those Blue Guys that play with plastic pipe! My 2 bits worth is this... if MTL s leadership doesn t step up to
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 3, 2007
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            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Don Avila" <d.f.avila@...> wrote:
            >
            > We can talk to ourselves until we are blue in the face.
            >
            > It is the two sisters at MTL that have to be convinces there is
            money
            > in Z.

            Don, just don't turn into one of those "Blue Guys" that play with
            plastic pipe!

            My 2 bits worth is this... if MTL's leadership doesn't step up to the
            plate and if AZL remains too expensive for many then I hope Athearn,
            Atlas, Bachmann, or similar companies to put their toes in the
            water. Remember, they didn't go into N scale right away and now you
            can get some very nice prototypical motive power and rolling stock in
            just about all of the major road names, even in Alaska! Granted some
            are cheaper than others but they offer affordable high end N scale.
            Competition is what gets us more, and better, in every product known
            to man. I'm glad old man Henry Ford wasn't the only producer of
            automobiles, who knows what few styles and low efficieny cars we'd be
            driving now.

            I cannot believe that these other companies are not rubbing their
            chins as they contemplate the Z scale market. They have to be at
            least THINKING about it, no?

            Karin
          • Don Avila
            My worthless guess is that some of these manufacturers will take a GOOD look around Detroit this summer, and then begin to consider spending some tooling
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 3, 2007
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              My worthless guess is that some of these manufacturers will take a
              GOOD look around Detroit this summer, and then begin to consider
              spending some tooling money. Detroit is only 8 weeks away -- Isn't
              that 7+1 or 6+2? It's a big commitment to start off on another scale.
              And there is a BIG chicken/egg world out there that has to pay the
              bills. I see Loren was helping promote the product in San Jose
              yesterday/today] ...don

              - - -

              > Don, just don't turn into one of those "Blue Guys" that play with
              > plastic pipe!
              >
              > My 2 bits worth is this... if MTL's leadership doesn't step up to the
              > plate and if AZL remains too expensive for many then I hope Athearn,
              > Atlas, Bachmann, or similar companies to put their toes in the
              > water. Remember, they didn't go into N scale right away and now you
              > can get some very nice prototypical motive power and rolling stock in
              > just about all of the major road names, even in Alaska! Granted some
              > are cheaper than others but they offer affordable high end N scale.
              > Competition is what gets us more, and better, in every product known
              > to man. I'm glad old man Henry Ford wasn't the only producer of
              > automobiles, who knows what few styles and low efficieny cars we'd be
              > driving now.
              >
              > I cannot believe that these other companies are not rubbing their
              > chins as they contemplate the Z scale market. They have to be at
              > least THINKING about it, no?
              >
              > Karin
              >
            • Mike D.
              Say It Ain t So, Don... MTL is operated by two women? Well that explains that. My dealer called them in inquire about a car for me and something called runner
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 3, 2007
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                Say It Ain't So, Don...

                MTL is operated by two women? Well that explains that.

                My dealer called them in inquire about a car for me and something called
                'runner set's #4 and #5 it think it was, the woman who answered the phone
                not knowing she was on speaker phone didn't just get nasty real quick, she
                got ultra-NASTY. Now my dealer (who looks exactly like Wolfman Jack did)
                looked at me with the widest eyes I've ever seen on a Human in all my life.
                No no receptionist in the world would dare to speak to a customer like that
                for fear of her job, so it had to be one of these women.

                I'm not taking anything away from women in business I hope all will
                understand. But from this attitude it's clearly evident nothing will change
                and those personnel at MTL must have their hands full in dealing with that
                kind of mentality. They must of had to walk to school (uphill, both ways).

                Karin, I sure hope your assessment is right, for them to not take advantage
                while they 'Owned' the market and had the chance to establish themselves as
                the leader. To just give the opportunity away, well that just seems to be
                the American way these days. I realize all to well that if it was easy then
                boy scouts and girl scouts would be doing it. Whats going on here is just a
                shame, a plain ole shame.

                /s/ Not Really a GOT TO HAVE IT NOW, disgruntled, Hurting the Hobby, MTL
                fan.


                >From: "Karin Svenson" <karin@...>
                >Reply-To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                >To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: MTL Production Numbers
                >Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 23:21:27 -0000
                >
                >--- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Don Avila" <d.f.avila@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > We can talk to ourselves until we are blue in the face.
                > >
                > > It is the two sisters at MTL that have to be convinces there is
                >money
                > > in Z.
                >
                >Don, just don't turn into one of those "Blue Guys" that play with
                >plastic pipe!
                >
                >My 2 bits worth is this... if MTL's leadership doesn't step up to the
                >plate and if AZL remains too expensive for many then I hope Athearn,
                >Atlas, Bachmann, or similar companies to put their toes in the
                >water. Remember, they didn't go into N scale right away and now you
                >can get some very nice prototypical motive power and rolling stock in
                >just about all of the major road names, even in Alaska! Granted some
                >are cheaper than others but they offer affordable high end N scale.
                >Competition is what gets us more, and better, in every product known
                >to man. I'm glad old man Henry Ford wasn't the only producer of
                >automobiles, who knows what few styles and low efficieny cars we'd be
                >driving now.
                >
                >I cannot believe that these other companies are not rubbing their
                >chins as they contemplate the Z scale market. They have to be at
                >least THINKING about it, no?
                >
                >Karin
                >

                _________________________________________________________________
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              • Don Avila
                Give Loren a couple of days to get his feet back on the ground and drop him an Email. He s been at a train show with Joe with at least two of the new GP9 s
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 3, 2007
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                  Give Loren a couple of days to get his feet back on the ground and
                  drop him an Email. He's been at a train show with Joe with at least
                  two of the new GP9's fully decorated. Check out TRAINBOARD for the
                  colors. Loren is in at MTL regularly and can can fill you in on
                  details, even the names of who to write to or whatever. I didn't
                  think the sisters answered the phones, but who knows. MTL has quite a
                  few employees.

                  ...don


                  > Say It Ain't So, Don...
                  >
                  > MTL is operated by two women? Well that explains that.
                  >
                  > My dealer called them in inquire about a car for me and something
                  called
                  > 'runner set's #4 and #5 it think it was, the woman who answered the
                  phone
                  > not knowing she was on speaker phone didn't just get nasty real
                  quick, she
                  > got ultra-NASTY. Now my dealer (who looks exactly like Wolfman Jack
                  did)
                  > looked at me with the widest eyes I've ever seen on a Human in all
                  my life.
                  > No no receptionist in the world would dare to speak to a customer
                  like that
                  > for fear of her job, so it had to be one of these women.
                  >
                  > I'm not taking anything away from women in business I hope all will
                  > understand. But from this attitude it's clearly evident nothing will
                  change
                  > and those personnel at MTL must have their hands full in dealing
                  with that
                  > kind of mentality. They must of had to walk to school (uphill, both
                  ways).
                  >
                  > Karin, I sure hope your assessment is right, for them to not take
                  advantage
                  > while they 'Owned' the market and had the chance to establish
                  themselves as
                  > the leader. To just give the opportunity away, well that just seems
                  to be
                  > the American way these days. I realize all to well that if it was
                  easy then
                  > boy scouts and girl scouts would be doing it. Whats going on here is
                  just a
                  > shame, a plain ole shame.
                • Joe DAmato
                  Boy, I go to San Francisco for a day of train runnin and come back to this!! :o) Hey, I d love to tell you all what s coming in the way of road names, but
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 3, 2007
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                    Boy, I go to San Francisco for a day of train runnin' and come back
                    to this!! :o)

                    Hey, I'd love to tell you all what's coming in the way of road names,
                    but that's a lot more complicated than talking about new product
                    development. It's also something done by a different part of the
                    company and I think there's someting to do with letting dealers know
                    what and when and when to let customers know, and what and
                    when...oye..my head hurts. We've come a long way in the past 4 years
                    and I wouldn't be surprised if we continue to move and change in the
                    comming months and years...and as we do I announce what I can.

                    Cheers

                    Joe



                    --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Edward Scullin <sculline@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Don
                    > I think what was meant about giving notice as to what is coming out
                    refered to road names Joe D
                    > has been great about what he knows is coming, but still kind of
                    quiet about specific road names.
                    > I think if what was stated here earlier about a 6 month lead time,
                    It would make sense if MTL
                    > would announce the road names and then see what additional orders
                    appear. Granted a lot of
                    > dealers aare signed up to take X of what ever MTL produces. If I
                    read the post from Aaron
                    > correctly dealers can be fairly selective (IE this month I want X
                    tank cars, Y box cars etc).
                    > Ed Scullin
                    >
                    > --- Don Avila <d.f.avila@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > [snip]
                    > > >
                    > > > Okay, this brings up another question, why all the secrecy on
                    what is
                    > > > coming out?
                    > > > Zane
                    > >
                    > > Ummmmmm,
                    > >
                    > > Joe has been pretty open with us. We have known about the GP9
                    for a
                    > > LOOOOONG time. Finished production photos of the the first
                    version
                    > > are on Trainboard and they are spectacular He told us about the
                    > > turnouts and new track more than half a year before they came
                    out.
                    > > The other day he told us the turnout motors will be available
                    > > separately in a few months and of course they are now available
                    with
                    > > track. Many months before the Digitrax drop in DCC came out Joe
                    told
                    > > us about it. He has been telling us about the passenger cars
                    coming.
                    > > He has been telling us about some of the new engines with 6 wheel
                    > > trucks.
                    > >
                    > > I hardly call it secrecy ESPECIALLY where it really truly comes
                    out
                    > > and is not Vapor-Ware.
                    > >
                    > > ...don
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Alan Cox
                    ... So get her name and get her fired. And tell me you ve never had a man do the same...
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 4, 2007
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                      > got ultra-NASTY. Now my dealer (who looks exactly like Wolfman Jack did)
                      > looked at me with the widest eyes I've ever seen on a Human in all my life.
                      > No no receptionist in the world would dare to speak to a customer like that
                      > for fear of her job, so it had to be one of these women.

                      So get her name and get her fired. And tell me you've never had a man do
                      the same...
                    • Garth Hamilton
                      Guys if you are so sure you can do a better job then go get a job at MTL or better yet make an offer the current owners can not turn down and show us what you
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 4, 2007
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                        Guys if you are so sure you can do a better job then go get a job at
                        MTL or better yet make an offer the current owners can not turn down
                        and show us what you can do. Otherwise you are a lay preacher
                        preaching to the already converted and it a rehash of what we have
                        all heard. MTL management is not listening here. Joe is that is a
                        truly bright light so don't blow it out.

                        Garth Hamilton
                        one of the converted
                      • Edward Scullin
                        Joe We can t really ask for any more than that. BUT Ed Scullin Thanks for filling us in when you can.
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 4, 2007
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                          Joe
                          We can't really ask for any more than that. BUT
                          Ed Scullin
                          Thanks for filling us in when you can.

                          --- Joe DAmato <shipsure2003@...> wrote:

                          > Boy, I go to San Francisco for a day of train runnin' and come back
                          > to this!! :o)
                          >
                          > Hey, I'd love to tell you all what's coming in the way of road names,
                          > but that's a lot more complicated than talking about new product

                          ...and as we do I announce what I can.
                          >
                          > Cheers
                          >
                          > Joe
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Edward Scullin <sculline@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Don
                          > > I think what was meant about giving notice as to what is coming out
                          > refered to road names Joe D
                          > > has been great about what he knows is coming, but still kind of
                          > quiet about specific road names.
                          > > I think if what was stated here earlier about a 6 month lead time,
                          > It would make sense if MTL
                          > > would announce the road names and then see what additional orders
                          > appear. Granted a lot of
                          > > dealers aare signed up to take X of what ever MTL produces. If I
                          > read the post from Aaron
                          > > correctly dealers can be fairly selective (IE this month I want X
                          > tank cars, Y box cars etc).
                          > > Ed Scullin
                          > >
                          > > --- Don Avila <d.f.avila@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > [snip]
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Okay, this brings up another question, why all the secrecy on
                          > what is
                          > > > > coming out?
                          > > > > Zane
                          > > >
                          > > > Ummmmmm,
                          > > >
                          > > > Joe has been pretty open with us. We have known about the GP9
                          > for a
                          > > > LOOOOONG time. Finished production photos of the the first
                          > version
                          > > > are on Trainboard and they are spectacular He told us about the
                          > > > turnouts and new track more than half a year before they came
                          > out.
                          > > > The other day he told us the turnout motors will be available
                          > > > separately in a few months and of course they are now available
                          > with
                          > > > track. Many months before the Digitrax drop in DCC came out Joe
                          > told
                          > > > us about it. He has been telling us about the passenger cars
                          > coming.
                          > > > He has been telling us about some of the new engines with 6 wheel
                          > > > trucks.
                          > > >
                          > > > I hardly call it secrecy ESPECIALLY where it really truly comes
                          > out
                          > > > and is not Vapor-Ware.
                          > > >
                          > > > ...don
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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