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Re: Working for the masses of Z Scale

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  • Glen Chenier
    ... BTW, when I actually timed ... Not really, under 1 smph at 40 pps is the norm for the enhanced MTL F7. Motor cogging below this prevents lower speed, but
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 1, 2006
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      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Reynard Wellman <micron@...> wrote:
      BTW, when I actually timed
      > my slow running GP35s hauling 32 cars, the slowest speed
      > was more like 8 to 15 MPH, not 2-4 MPH. See how lack of real
      > data can make an exaggerator out of you? ;>))

      Not really, under 1 smph at 40 pps is the norm for the enhanced MTL
      F7. Motor cogging below this prevents lower speed, but in reality the
      1 smph is far too slow for realistic operation.
    • Reynard Wellman
      Hello Glen, I ve got to own up to something... sometimes I exaggerate ; ) I doubt very seriously that I could back even 50 cars through a turnout peppered
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 1, 2006
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        Hello Glen,
        I've got to own up to something... sometimes I exaggerate ;>)
        I doubt very seriously that I could back even 50 cars
        through a turnout peppered yard. Yes, the couplers can break
        and then the cars go into the derail mode. Long trains are
        a big strain on MTL Z scale couplers, I know this because I have
        broken them off the engines in the past. BTW, when I actually timed
        my slow running GP35s hauling 32 cars, the slowest speed
        was more like 8 to 15 MPH, not 2-4 MPH. See how lack of real
        data can make an exaggerator out of you? ;>))

        None the less, I find the MTL turnouts to perform as well as
        my Kato turnouts and they look cooler. I can't wait until all
        the finer bits and pieces for this track system start showing up.
        15° & 30° crossovers, sectional fittings, steel bumpers,
        expansion track, road crossing tracks with built-in rerailers, etc.
        The color and texture of the ballast to sleepers relationship
        is perfect! Yes, the future is bright for Z scale. It's hard to
        objective about the soup when you haven't been fed
        for long, long time.

        Also, I am pro non-roadbed MTL track sections for those who
        are doing their own thing. Frankly, we need it. There are many
        instances such as yards and bridges where tall mounds
        of ballast are inappropriate. Yards are always at "grade"
        with drainage ditches at key locations. Large concrete areas are
        also found all over these yards. Variety within this track
        system should also be taken into account.

        I am not on MTL's payroll but I did approve this ad.

        Best regardZ,
        Reynard
        http://www.micronart.com
        On Nov 1, 2006, at 8:41 AM, Glen Chenier wrote:

        > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Reynard Wellman <micron@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Further testing of 100% MTL shod trains pulled by the
        > > GP35 forwards and backwards through a gaggle of MTL
        > > turnouts without one single derailment or stalling has me
        > > floored! I ran the trains at a scale 2-4 MPH without a single
        > > hiccup or stall. Operations like this in Z scale are new to me.
        > > I've only seen performance like this on some good quality HO &
        > > O scale club layouts, where trains were run on schedules.
        >
        > This is the ideal towards which we strive, and there is no reason this
        > cannot be possible in Z scale. Hiccups/stalls at slow speed are a
        > thing of the past when using high quality turnouts and locomotives
        > with good wheel pickup.
        >
        > > For those who are just starting out in Z I would strongly urge
        > > them to obtain a MTL train set with the GP35, the roadbed track
        > > and turnouts and plenty of MTL rolling stock. I believe that
        > > with the assistance of 2 to 3 GP35s we will all be able to
        > > run 100 plus freight cars through any yard configuration you
        > > might imagine, both backwards and forwards!
        >
        > Backwards? Best stick with body mounted couplers (ie avoid truck
        > mount couplers like the plague)if you want to push 100 cars backwards.
        >
        > > Yea, I'm playing with trains - between work - it is now a very
        > > relaxing break from the computer and the house repairs.
        >
        > Ain't it grand when things work properly?
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Reynard Wellman
        Hello Glen, I m just using a Marklin transformer, but the GP35 runs slow enough to be boring to watch even without further electronic enhancements to this gem.
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 1, 2006
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          Hello Glen,
          I'm just using a Marklin transformer, but the GP35
          runs slow enough to be boring to watch even without
          further electronic enhancements to this gem.
          Another topic: What's this about removing that spiffy looking
          "trainboard" on the GP35? We finally get a locomotive that
          is darn near perfect and some folks are already removing
          one of it's most charming features. Glad that they are
          inexpensive enough to kitbash. If all goes wrong, you
          can just start over with a new one;>)

          RegardZ,
          Reynard


          On Nov 1, 2006, at 11:01 AM, Glen Chenier wrote:

          > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Reynard Wellman <micron@...> wrote:
          > BTW, when I actually timed
          > > my slow running GP35s hauling 32 cars, the slowest speed
          > > was more like 8 to 15 MPH, not 2-4 MPH. See how lack of real
          > > data can make an exaggerator out of you? ;>))
          >
          > Not really, under 1 smph at 40 pps is the norm for the enhanced MTL
          > F7. Motor cogging below this prevents lower speed, but in reality the
          > 1 smph is far too slow for realistic operation.
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Larry Card
          ... Ntrak throttle with a 9v wall wart power source or 9v battery. That s what I use, and it works pretty well. I think I paid around 10 bucks for the whole
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 1, 2006
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            >Your comment leads to another concept - how would a manufacturer make
            >the simplest bare-bones, non-reversing, no speed control, no current
            >limit other than the natural battery limit - in short, what would it
            >take for the cheapest power pack to be included with a starter set to
            >do nothing more than get the train running around a circle at a
            >reasonable speed on the kitchen table?

            Ntrak throttle with a 9v wall wart power source or 9v battery. That's what
            I use, and it works pretty well. I think I paid around 10 bucks for the
            whole thing, not counting the time it took to solder the parts together.
            Variable speed control, and it has on/off and reversing switches. I'm sure
            that something other than the standard RadioShack project box would be used,
            but I can't see where that is a huge difficulty to overcome.
            V/R
            Larry P. Card
            Franklinton NC

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          • dpstripe@aol.com
            In a message dated 11/1/2006 2:31:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, micron@micronart.com writes: I m just using a Marklin transformer, but the GP35 runs slow
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 1, 2006
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              In a message dated 11/1/2006 2:31:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              micron@... writes:

              I'm just using a Marklin transformer, but the GP35
              runs slow enough to be boring to watch even without
              further electronic enhancements to this gem


              Reynard,
              When I first got my Pennsy GP-35's last year, I was sitting in a hotel room
              trying them out with an oval of MT track and my Marklin transformer. Well, the
              phone rang, so I turned it off, or so I thought, and went to talk on the
              phone. Since the Marklin transformer has no real "on/off" switch, I thought that
              the knob was back in the off position. Well, turns out that it wasn't. After
              about a half hour, I noticed that the loc wasn't where I left it. Upon
              further investigation, I saw that it was actually moving. Slower than I could
              possibly imagine, but it was moving. Now, I realize that this was totally
              unloaded, so it's not intended as a counter to your minimum speed, but it was
              simply amazing. I laid a pocket scale next to the track (with 1/64" graduations),
              and to my total amazement, the thing was moving smoothly. Needless to say, I
              never quite trusted "off" again. And, I can no longer doubt any fantastical
              claims about these little guys.
              Dan S.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dpstripe@aol.com
              Reynard, We (the D.C. ZBend group) have periodically run long trains (I think our record is somewhere around 121 cars, Bryan and Randy, correct me if I m
              Message 6 of 18 , Nov 1, 2006
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                Reynard,
                We (the D.C. ZBend group) have periodically run long trains (I think our
                record is somewhere around 121 cars, Bryan and Randy, correct me if I'm wrong),
                but we tend to throw a couple of helper locs in the middle of the train. It
                helps relieve some of the coupler strain. Our most common problem is the
                occasional wheel climbing out of the rails at turnouts (where's that re-railer
                section, Joe? Just kidding, no real hurry). But we have had our share of
                stringlines and NTSB investigations. I had a 69 (41 PZ and 28 FR) car coal train
                running for a couple of hours trouble free, with a fully powered MT F7 A-B-B-A
                at its head last year at Chantilly. But, then one of the B units brushes
                didn't feed in, and caused quite a few problems before I caught on to what was
                happening. Long trains are just a good time. We haven't had a lot of coupler
                breakage, though.
                Dan S.

                In a message dated 11/2/2006 12:22:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                micron@... writes:

                Dan,
                It's positively hypnotic; watching a train of 30 cars make
                the rounds at a creep. My cat wants to attack this
                dangerous looking snake, but I have warned her off.
                My previous show layout was about the size of a coffee
                table, so I kept my trains down to 15 cars max. When
                the module guys get together at NMRA shows, we run
                trains of 50 to 60 cars, at least until the couplers break.
                Ever seen one of these ropes flop off the rails all at once?
                Try backing up that train at a high speed.
                Gotta leave plenty of margin for error if you don't want
                your delicate cars to disintegrate on the train show concrete.






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Reynard Wellman
                Dan, It s positively hypnotic; watching a train of 30 cars make the rounds at a creep. My cat wants to attack this dangerous looking snake, but I have warned
                Message 7 of 18 , Nov 1, 2006
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                  Dan,
                  It's positively hypnotic; watching a train of 30 cars make
                  the rounds at a creep. My cat wants to attack this
                  dangerous looking snake, but I have warned her off.
                  My previous show layout was about the size of a coffee
                  table, so I kept my trains down to 15 cars max. When
                  the module guys get together at NMRA shows, we run
                  trains of 50 to 60 cars, at least until the couplers break.
                  Ever seen one of these ropes flop off the rails all at once?
                  Try backing up that train at a high speed.
                  Gotta leave plenty of margin for error if you don't want
                  your delicate cars to disintegrate on the train show concrete.
                  The trouble with the GP35 by itself is; you can't
                  hear it unless you move in real close. Perhaps Lajos,
                  in addition to his "SAT" project (Self Adjusting Turnout),
                  will manufacture a GP35 sound module that simulates the
                  Union Pacific trains that pass in the night about two miles
                  from my house. That would sure get your attention!
                  If I heard that, I'd sure hang up the phone and look over
                  at the layout or speed dial 911.

                  Best regardZ,
                  Reynard
                  http://www.micronart.com


                  On Nov 1, 2006, at 6:13 PM, dpstripe@... wrote:

                  >
                  > In a message dated 11/1/2006 2:31:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                  > micron@... writes:
                  >
                  > I'm just using a Marklin transformer, but the GP35
                  > runs slow enough to be boring to watch even without
                  > further electronic enhancements to this gem
                  >
                  > Reynard,
                  > When I first got my Pennsy GP-35's last year, I was sitting in a
                  > hotel room
                  > trying them out with an oval of MT track and my Marklin
                  > transformer. Well, the
                  > phone rang, so I turned it off, or so I thought, and went to talk
                  > on the
                  > phone. Since the Marklin transformer has no real "on/off" switch, I
                  > thought that
                  > the knob was back in the off position. Well, turns out that it
                  > wasn't. After
                  > about a half hour, I noticed that the loc wasn't where I left it. Upon
                  > further investigation, I saw that it was actually moving. Slower
                  > than I could
                  > possibly imagine, but it was moving. Now, I realize that this was
                  > totally
                  > unloaded, so it's not intended as a counter to your minimum speed,
                  > but it was
                  > simply amazing. I laid a pocket scale next to the track (with 1/64"
                  > graduations),
                  > and to my total amazement, the thing was moving smoothly. Needless
                  > to say, I
                  > never quite trusted "off" again. And, I can no longer doubt any
                  > fantastical
                  > claims about these little guys.
                  > Dan S.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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