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Re: Turnouts

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  • Karin Svenson
    ... Standards? What standards? ... there have been problems. In Z scale these standards are in attempted development but not yet final. Members of this list
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 1, 2006
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      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Chenier" <chenierfam@...>
      wrote:
      > With all the recent posts on the new MTL Turnouts I have to throw
      > these comments into the stew...
      Standards? What standards?
      >
      > Here's my point- Even with existing NMRA Standards in other scales
      there have been problems. In Z scale these standards are in
      attempted development but not yet final. Members of this list are
      working on the standards. It takes time...

      Glen, great contribution! You have proved that we CAN learn from
      the scales that ran before our own Z and its growing pains. I have
      two questions for you.

      1. If NMRA standards didn't exactly help you in the larger scales do
      we really want to push Z into set standards; which I find to be
      somewhat an oxymoron. And...

      2. "My ties were wood matchsticks soaked in creosote (ahhh - that
      real railroad smell...) Never any problems after that. I could
      hand-propel a consist at 500 scale mph through a series of hand-laid
      turnouts with never a derailment."

      I want to lay all my G scale brass track on cedar ties (yes, I
      realize that I, too, am talking a larger scale here but follow me).
      Where do you get REAL creosote and how do you keep from dying from
      the fumes when working with it. I am very serious on how to find
      the stuff, I'll figure out how to survive the odiferous
      concequenses ;o}

      Karin
    • Don Avila
      Any one notice that not a peep has been made about the fact that when MTL first came out with USA tie spacing and did not follow Marklin we got better looking
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 1, 2006
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        Any one notice that not a peep has been made about the fact that when
        MTL first came out with USA tie spacing and did not follow Marklin we
        got better looking track. It gets pretty tricky then to decide that
        someone's standards should be followed or only partly followed or not
        followed at all. MTL/Joe, just bring on more goodies.

        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Chenier" <chenierfam@...> wrote:
        >
        > With all the recent posts on the new MTL Turnouts I have to throw
        > these comments into the stew...
        >
        > 30 years ago I built my first HO scale layout. I made the big mistake
        > of using two different brands of turnouts (Atlas vs Bachmann). I got
        > lucky - there actually was a wheel gauge adjustment that was accepted
        > by both turnout dimensions. Standards? What standards? [snip]
      • Ysbrand van der Veen
        Hello Don, The issue is compatibility i.e. the possibiblity of running trains independent of the manufacturer on all kinds of track and switches. Tie spacing
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 1, 2006
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          Hello Don,

          The issue is compatibility i.e. the possibiblity of running trains
          independent of the manufacturer on all kinds of track and switches.
          Tie spacing doesn't have to do with compatibilaty in this sense, it's
          just cosmetics.

          On my test lay-out with an MT oval (couldn't buy the switches yet in
          the Netherlands) and am extended Märklin Oval with a turnout and
          double slip switch I ran all kinds of engines from Märklin, MT and
          several European and US small series producers. No problems except
          with the Cab Forward from a Friend that derailed on both MT and
          Märklin track.

          Best,
          YSbrand


          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Don Avila" <d.f.avila@...> wrote:
          >
          > Any one notice that not a peep has been made about the fact that
          when
          > MTL first came out with USA tie spacing and did not follow Marklin
          we
          > got better looking track. It gets pretty tricky then to decide that
          > someone's standards should be followed or only partly followed or
          not
          > followed at all. MTL/Joe, just bring on more goodies.
          >
          > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Chenier" <chenierfam@> wrote:
          > >
          > > With all the recent posts on the new MTL Turnouts I have to throw
          > > these comments into the stew...
          > >
          > > 30 years ago I built my first HO scale layout. I made the big
          mistake
          > > of using two different brands of turnouts (Atlas vs Bachmann). I
          got
          > > lucky - there actually was a wheel gauge adjustment that was
          accepted
          > > by both turnout dimensions. Standards? What standards? [snip]
          >
        • Ell Geib
          Glen, Isn t the NMRA supposed to chastise manufacturers that don t meet standards? Or at least put them on some non-approved list? Of course, I don t know
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 1, 2006
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            Glen,

            Isn't the NMRA supposed to "chastise" manufacturers that don't meet
            standards? Or at least put them on some non-approved list? Of course,
            I don't know whether that would mean anything in practical terms or
            not.

            Ell Geib


            >In z_scale@yahoogroups.com "Glen Chenier"
            ><mailto:chenierfam@...?Subject=Re:
            >Turnouts><chenierfam@...> wrote:
            >
            >With all the recent posts on the new MTL Turnouts I have to throw
            >these comments into the stew...
            >
            >30 years ago I built my first HO scale layout. I made the big mistake
            >of using two different brands of turnouts (Atlas vs Bachmann). I got
            >lucky - there actually was a wheel gauge adjustment that was accepted
            >by both turnout dimensions. Standards? What standards?
            >
            >SNIP

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Glen Chenier
            ... This is really a question for a NMRA member, but IMHO I don t think the NMRA chastises any manufacturers - their customers (or sudden lack of) probably do
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 1, 2006
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              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Ell Geib <geib@...> wrote:

              > Isn't the NMRA supposed to "chastise" manufacturers that don't meet
              > standards? Or at least put them on some non-approved list? Of course,
              > I don't know whether that would mean anything in practical terms or
              > not.

              This is really a question for a NMRA member, but IMHO I don't think
              the NMRA chastises any manufacturers - their customers (or sudden lack
              of) probably do the necessary.
            • Glen Chenier
              ... That was long ago and an example of what can happen when manufacturers do not follow the standards and some poor consumer finds out only after building the
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 1, 2006
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                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Karin Svenson" <karin@...> wrote:
                > 1. If NMRA standards didn't exactly help you in the larger scales do
                > we really want to push Z into set standards; which I find to be
                > somewhat an oxymoron. And...

                That was long ago and an example of what can happen when manufacturers
                do not follow the standards and some poor consumer finds out only
                after building the product into the layout; these days I would hope
                that larger scales are better quality and inter-compatible. To ensure
                that all maunfacturers' products will work together an 'official'
                standard is necessary - that is why the NMRA is the the keeper of
                these standards so that any manufacturer who wants to can design to
                them. When an official standard does not exist, what dimensions does
                a manufacturer design to?

                There are some list members who have been heavily involved in setting
                Z scale standards. The last I heard these standards have not yet been
                ratified by the NMRA. Could we hear from these folks and get an
                update on where things are at?


                > 2. "My ties were wood matchsticks soaked in creosote (ahhh - that
                > real railroad smell...)
                >
                > I want to lay all my G scale brass track on cedar ties (yes, I
                > realize that I, too, am talking a larger scale here but follow me).
                > Where do you get REAL creosote and how do you keep from dying from
                > the fumes when working with it. I am very serious on how to find
                > the stuff, I'll figure out how to survive the odiferous
                > concequenses ;o}
                >

                I got the creosote at the local hardware store. In Canada. Years ago.
                It has since been found to cause cancer (just learned that now from
                Google) and may not be available anymore. Just did a web search at
                Lowes.com and they say 'no longer available'. Wow - to think of all
                those ties I spiked and touched that were soaked in that stuff - if my
                fingers rot away in the next few years I'll know why. Lesson learned
                - model railroad chemicals can be hazardous to your health.

                Best forget about using creosote. Cedar should not need any
                preservatives anyway.
              • David George
                NMRA encourages and offers a podium but does not control or enforce. Mister Dave ... From: Ell Geib To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 01,
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 2, 2006
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                  NMRA encourages and offers a podium but does not control or enforce.

                  Mister Dave

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Ell Geib
                  To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:16 PM
                  Subject: [Z_Scale] Turnouts


                  Glen,

                  Isn't the NMRA supposed to "chastise" manufacturers that don't meet
                  standards? Or at least put them on some non-approved list? Of course,
                  I don't know whether that would mean anything in practical terms or
                  not.

                  Ell Geib

                  >In z_scale@yahoogroups.com "Glen Chenier"
                  ><mailto:chenierfam@...?Subject=Re:
                  >Turnouts><chenierfam@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >With all the recent posts on the new MTL Turnouts I have to throw
                  >these comments into the stew...
                  >
                  >30 years ago I built my first HO scale layout. I made the big mistake
                  >of using two different brands of turnouts (Atlas vs Bachmann). I got
                  >lucky - there actually was a wheel gauge adjustment that was accepted
                  >by both turnout dimensions. Standards? What standards?
                  >
                  >SNIP

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • David Epling
                  Greetings Earthlings, Will MTL turnouts drop right into a slot that originally held a Marklin turnout? Thanks David Epling Manager Western Pacific RR Museum
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 5, 2008
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                    Greetings Earthlings,

                    Will MTL turnouts drop right into a slot that originally held a Marklin
                    turnout?

                    Thanks

                    David Epling
                    Manager
                    Western Pacific RR Museum
                    http://www.wplives.org
                    Museum: 530-832-4131
                    Cell: 209-915-5169
                    david_epling@...
                  • Robert Ray
                    ... Marklin ... Yes they will, however the rail height might not be exactly the same amd require a bit of filing if trains do wheel hopping on you.
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 5, 2008
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                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "David Epling" <cct24@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Greetings Earthlings,
                      >
                      > Will MTL turnouts drop right into a slot that originally held a
                      Marklin
                      > turnout?
                      >
                      >


                      Yes they will, however the rail height might not be exactly the same
                      amd require a bit of filing if trains do wheel hopping on you.
                    • John Duino
                      Not quite, as the MTL s have the roadbed attached and Marklin s are plain. Peter Wright turnouts do, but the tie-spacing is North American. Why not just
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 5, 2008
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                        Not quite, as the MTL's have the roadbed attached and Marklin's are plain.
                        Peter Wright turnouts do, but the tie-spacing is North American.

                        Why not just replace with Marklin (after some appropriate fine-tuning)?

                        John

                        > Greetings Earthlings,
                        >
                        > Will MTL turnouts drop right into a slot that originally held a Marklin
                        > turnout?
                        >
                        > Thanks
                        >
                        > David Epling
                        > Manager
                        > Western Pacific RR Museum
                        > http://www.wplives.org
                        > Museum: 530-832-4131
                        > Cell: 209-915-5169
                        > david_epling@...
                      • hobbycraftsnmore
                        Hi David Epling As Robert said they will match up except the height. You can see the height difference on my website I have an area that shows how to join
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 5, 2008
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                          Hi David Epling


                          As Robert said they will match up except the height. You can see the
                          height difference on my website I have an area that shows how to join
                          Marklin and MTL track together. Here is the link

                          Just Copy and Paste


                          http://www.hobbycraftsnmore.com/FAQ%20Pages/Hobby/Trains/Z%
                          20Scale/MTL%20Micro-Track%20connecting%20to%20Marklin%20Track.htm



                          Kevin
                          Hobby Crafts N More
                          Website:
                          www.hobbycraftsnmore.com
                          Email:
                          hobbycraftsnmorer@...






                          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "David Epling" <cct24@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Greetings Earthlings,
                          >
                          > Will MTL turnouts drop right into a slot that originally held a
                          Marklin
                          > turnout?
                          >

                          >
                        • David Epling
                          Thanks to all who replied. We will get the problem turnout under control today.
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 6, 2008
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                            Thanks to all who replied. We will get the problem turnout under control
                            today.
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