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Varying Noise Levels In Same Chassis Locos

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  • jcubbin@optonline.net
    Hi, I have an 8858 and a recently acquired 88571. The 8858 has a much lower sound level that the 88571. Since I believe they re essentially the same locomotive
    Message 1 of 8 , May 31, 2001
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      Hi,

      I have an 8858 and a recently acquired 88571. The 8858 has a much lower sound level that the 88571. Since I believe they're
      essentially the same locomotive (chassis / motor), shouldn't they very much sound the same? They are both 3 pole motors. Also, the
      8858 will run better at lower speeds, it's tough to get it to stall.

      I could swap a few parts out such as the motor to find out exactly why there is such a discrepancy, and I actually may do this but if
      there's any easier way:)

      I'm probably going to go 5 pole with both which may equalize the sound both produce. Short of some sort of gear issue, any ideas?

      Thanks
      John
    • D. A. Karp
      Have you tried running both units with the shells removed? Often, sound is amplified by the shell, either because it is loose fitting or has vents or
      Message 2 of 8 , May 31, 2001
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        Have you tried running both units with the shells removed? Often, sound is
        amplified by the shell, either because it is loose fitting or has vents or
        whatever. If they sound the same with the shells removed, you've found
        your culprit. If not, it may be an issue with dirt, congealed oil, or old
        brushes.

        As for solutions, you can try cutting up some foam peanuts and inserting
        the pieces between the shell and chassis to deaden the sound.




        At 07:31 PM 5/31/2001 +0000, you wrote:
        >Hi,
        >
        >I have an 8858 and a recently acquired 88571. The 8858 has a much lower
        >sound level that the 88571. Since I believe they're
        >essentially the same locomotive (chassis / motor), shouldn't they very
        >much sound the same? They are both 3 pole motors. Also, the
        >8858 will run better at lower speeds, it's tough to get it to stall.

        ___________________________________________
        http://www.creativelement.com/z/
      • jcubbin@optonline.net
        David, I m really, really surprised, but the difference in sound level IS the shell! I ve taken both shells off and examined them, they appear to be identical
        Message 3 of 8 , May 31, 2001
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          David,

          I'm really, really surprised, but the difference in sound level IS the shell! I've taken both shells off and examined them, they appear to be
          identical except the 88571 (the noiser) is a bit lighter. I switched shells and my quiet 8858 is the louder one now. I'll try your suggestion
          about the sound deadining.

          I may have another situation brewing. It involves one of the trucks.

          There seems to be a problem with one of the trucks however. I took a look at it by removing the kingpin, taking the truck off the chassis,
          putting the kingpin back in through the gear and placing the truck on a section of track. At this point the wheels and gears should move
          smoothly and fluidly if you move the truck by hand (as per your web site instructions!) , but they don't. The seem to bind up a bit causing
          this irregular movement.

          They gears are clean as a whistle, this was one of those ebay purchases that was advertised as "Unused / From A Store" and given how
          clean both the shell and chassis are I tend to believe it. This binding has me stumped. The only other thing I can think of is that there is
          a slight manufacturing irregularity with one or more of the gears in the belly pan.

          Any thoughts on this?

          Thanks
          John
        • M. Gottschalch
          John, If you have access to a disecting scope this will help to look at the gears. If not then a good magnifying glass may do it. With my eyesight I need the
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 1, 2001
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            John,

            If you have access to a disecting scope this will help to look at the
            gears. If not then a good magnifying glass may do it. With my eyesight I
            need the scope to get a good look at it all. ;-) I use pins and an xacto
            blade to clean and beburr.
            --
            Manfred
          • jcubbin@optonline.net
            I was up with this truck issue into the wee hours. In a large white container with a flat bottom I decided to take the entire truck apart and find out what the
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 1, 2001
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              I was up with this truck issue into the wee hours. In a large white container with a flat bottom I decided to take the entire truck apart and
              find out what the problem was. I dissambled the entire truck and cleaned all parts, although they were very clean to begin with. An
              alcohol bath followed by a compressed air dry cycle!

              Everything looked good. I reassembled and was fine right up until the gear that actually engages the worm gear. It doesn't seem to sit
              low enough between the intermediate gears to allow the kingpin to be placed through it. If you apply just a bit of pressure to line up the
              hole in the gear to the hole where the kingpin goes in, it will fit, but then the grinding occurs. Up until that point, all gears are moving
              very freely.

              Having done this assembly several times last night, I'm fairly sure that it's not the way I'm reassembling it. Also, given that this was the
              problem before I ever took the truck apart I believe it's something inherint to this truck. I was working under a lighted 3x magnifying lamp
              and I didn't see any burs on the gears.

              If I had to guess, it almost seems as if the hole the kingpin goes through wasn't made quit right at the factory. It's off just enough to cause
              this problem.

              Does this sound possible?

              John
            • D. A. Karp
              Have you tried swapping the gears? Since you have at least two identical chassis, you therefore have four identical kingpins and four identical spur gears.
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 1, 2001
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                Have you tried swapping the gears? Since you have at least two identical
                chassis, you therefore have four identical kingpins and four identical spur
                gears. By mixing and matching, you may be able to more easily isolate the
                problem. I find it hard to believe that the truck is misaligned,
                especially to the degree that would cause a problem with the meshing of the
                gears - besides, the truck is cast, not machined.

                It sounds like you've cleaned the parts sufficiently; much more so than I
                ever have, anyway. Perhaps the kingpin or the spur gear is bent, which
                would also cause them to mesh improperly. If so, these parts are easily
                replaced.

                So far, the only Marklin parts I've found to be misaligned in my own
                experience are the rolling stock wheelsets, which is understandable, given
                the mixture of plastic and metal.




                At 02:14 PM 6/1/2001 +0000, you wrote:
                >I was up with this truck issue into the wee hours. In a large white
                >container with a flat bottom I decided to take the entire truck apart and
                >find out what the problem was. I dissambled the entire truck and cleaned
                >all parts, although they were very clean to begin with. An
                >alcohol bath followed by a compressed air dry cycle!

                ___________________________________________
                http://www.creativelement.com/z/
              • jcubbin@optonline.net
                Ok, I just did a swapping of the gears, and it appears to be the truck itself. On the 88571 the truck is plastic. At this point, I really do believe that
                Message 7 of 8 , Jun 1, 2001
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                  Ok,

                  I just did a swapping of the gears, and it appears to be the truck itself. On the 88571 the truck is plastic. At this point, I really do believe
                  that somehow, perhaps as it was cooling after manufacturing, it developed a slight bend to it? Not much of a guess but the gears and
                  pins all seem sound.

                  Since the gears function well in the other truck.....

                  I've had an really lousy bit of luck lately with gears! Still waiting for my 88861 gears as well.

                  John
                • Scott A. Whitmire
                  ... Of course it s possible. You don t have many options for fixing it. You could fill the hole with putty and drill a new one, but that wouldn t be very
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jun 1, 2001
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                    At 6/1/01 07:14 AM, you wrote:
                    >If I had to guess, it almost seems as if the hole the kingpin goes through
                    >wasn't made quit right at the factory. It's off just enough to cause
                    >this problem.
                    >
                    >Does this sound possible?
                    >
                    >John

                    Of course it's possible. You don't have many options for fixing it. You could
                    fill the hole with putty and drill a new one, but that wouldn't be very strong.
                    Your best bet is a new truck.

                    With the tolerances as tight as they are in these things, it's a wonder it
                    doesn't happen more often.


                    Scott Whitmire
                    If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then
                    programming must be the process of putting them in.
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