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Re: What can be made to look more realistic?

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  • Terry J.N. Rowsell
    ... Either. I now have experience with both. In O scale people notice details like the newspaper on the door step. In HO it becomes less so. In N people
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 1, 2006
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      > What scale can be made to look more realistic N-scale or Z-scale?

      Either. I now have experience with both. In O scale people notice
      details like the newspaper on the door step. In HO it becomes less
      so. In N people notice overall effect more, perhaps. I would say the
      same is even truer of Z. I have had no difficulty detailing and
      weathering in Z.

      Cheers,
      Terry
    • Don Avila
      Look at some of Robert Rays models of both buildings and rolling stock and these are wood cut on a laser. Whether Z or N is any better is a tossup
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 1, 2006
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        Look at some of Robert Rays' models of both buildings and rolling stock
        and these are wood cut on a laser. Whether Z or N is any "better" is a
        tossup <<BUT>> you will find his Z work is fantastic. So considering
        you can do about 80% more elaborate scenery in Z in the same area as N,
        go for Z. I do not think there is any scenery in HO or N that can not
        be replicated in Z and it will look just as good or I find sometimes
        even better since you are getting into the psychology of what the brain
        perceives after the eye does the looking. ...don

        -----Original Message-----
        From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Richard Butler
        Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 3:29 PM
        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Z_Scale] What can be made to look more realistic?

        What scale can be made to look more realistic N-scale or Z-scale?
      • Adam Amick
        Good question, Rick. Detailing can be as extensive as you desire in any scale. However, commercially available parts for doing so are obviously more abundant
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 1, 2006
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          Good question, Rick.

          Detailing can be as extensive as you desire in any scale. However,
          commercially available parts for doing so are obviously more
          abundant in N scale than Z. The difference comes down to rivet
          counting... If you can't see the rivets, you can't count them, can
          you?

          I think it's a perspective thing that can be said is the difference.
          As you can model more in the same space in N versus HO, the same
          lies true for Z versus N. The biggest benefit, may be just that...
          Building BIG.

          If you want to model an industry or mountain in Z scale, you will
          have a much easier time modeling it to scale, or have to use less
          selective compression than you will in N. Consider a yard. A
          reasonably-sized freight yard could be a mile long in real life. In
          N scale that's going to be 33 feet, and in Z only 24. You could
          scale down and still get a lot more of the feel in Z than N.

          Here's another consideration: The typical Z Top module we have is
          18" deep, with two mainlines on one-inch centers 14 and 15 inches
          from the rear of the module. Allowing 1/2" from the track for right-
          of-way clearance (roughly 9 scale feet), that leaves 13.5" of
          modeling space (with straight track). That's 247.5 scale FEET to
          work with... Lots of space. To get that same space in N scale the
          module would have to be 24" deep, and the track closest to the
          skyboard (rear) would be 19" out.

          The neat aspect of Z modules 18 or 20 inches deep is this: You can
          mount them on 20" shelf brackets on the wall, and the difference to
          a comparable N setup would be an additional 8-12 inches of aisle
          space.

          Check the articles in Model Railroader or listen to layout builders
          on Allen Keller videos when they're asked "what would you do
          differently?" and the most common answer will be "wider aisles".

          So build away! Either scale is great, but you can really test your
          abilities in Z... Somewhere even many N scalers fear to tread.

          Adam


          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Butler" <rbutler77@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > What scale can be made to look more realistic N-scale or Z-scale?
          What
          > I am more interested in is more the structures and scenery that
          the
          > train itself. I have been a woodworker and cabinetmaker for going
          on
          > 30+ years and have mastered the skills and I am somewhat of an
          artist
          > to boot. I have just found out about the world of train modeling
          and I
          > am highly excited in getting started. I would like to start with
          wood
          > kits until I get use to the scale then do it from scratch. I have
          seen
          > many wood kits but really, no one shows them in scale to something
          of
          > known size such as a hand or a pack of cigarettes. Therefore, I
          cannot
          > tell what size would be easier to make realistic and in more
          detail.
          > My first goal and interest is realism, I want to do a mill by a
          stream
          > with a water wheel in mountains and have a train locomotive in the
          > early years of railroads that travels by it. Kind of like my own
          > little peace of mind. Will anyone please enlighten me in these
          areas?
          > Thank you very much for your time and thought.
          > Rick B.
          >
        • Bill Hoshiko
          ... Hi Rick, Welcome to Z. Realistic is in the eyes of the beholder. In HO scale there is Malcom Furlow who models New Mexico desert scenes. His scenery is
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 1, 2006
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            "Richard Butler" <rbutler77@...> wrote:
            >
            > What scale can be made to look more realistic N-scale or Z-scale?
            > Rick B.
            >

            Hi Rick,

            Welcome to Z.

            Realistic is in the eyes of the beholder. In HO scale there is
            Malcom Furlow who models New Mexico desert scenes. His scenery is
            described by many as caricatures or fanciful. He is a professional
            artist and has a large following with the HO scale modelers. There
            is also scenery done by George Sellios (SP?). He models the gritty
            look of industrial East Coast life during the steam engine era. In a
            way his modeling is also a caricature but it conveys an entirely
            different feeling. George is a manufacturer of highly detailed HO
            scale structure kits.

            In Z scale we have models built by many talented model makers.. For
            a scale reference I have posted to the Files section in the Bill
            H 'Odds and ends' folder two photos from Lionel Gazeau. One shows
            an O scale and a Z scale model of the same structure. You can see
            that if you model in Z scale, you could include a whole town in the
            space that is taken up by the O scale model.

            The O scale model shows how more minute detail can be modeled in O
            scale so the viewer becomes drawn into the minutia. "Look at the
            little oranges." The Z scale model, on the other hand, shows the
            total scene and conveys an entirely different artistic feel. "I saw
            a building just like that in Mexico". Of course, if you desire, you
            can also include oranges and dried garlic in your Z scale model.

            The photo of the Chama station shows the relationship between
            Lionel's hand and the size of the Z scale model. An N scale model
            will be less than twice that size. A HO scale model will require two
            hands to hold and an O scale model will requie a base for the
            structure to sit upon.

            I don't know how much, if any of these models are built of wood.

            Robert Ray uses a laser cut machine and much of the basis of his
            model are made from wood. Also his models are models of things that,
            in real life, are basically built from wood.

            The Chama station is a wooden structure but I don't know what
            modeling materials Lionel used. I don't believe that he utilizes a
            Laser cutting machine.

            In a direct answer to your question: What scale can be made to look
            more realistic N-scale or Z-scale? My answer would be, depends on
            your talent and the perception of the viewer.

            I have posted these two photos without Lionel's permission so I will
            remove them in 7 days.

            I hope that this helps.

            Bill H.
            El Toro, CA
          • Robert Ray
            I like to scratchbuild things in Z out of wood too. N Scale can be made more realistic, as it s closer to real size. But there is no challenge making realistic
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 1, 2006
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              I like to scratchbuild things in Z out of wood too. N Scale can be
              made more realistic, as it's closer to real size. But there is no
              challenge making realistic N Scale stuff, You want Z! It's much more
              satisfying to make a realistic grist mill with waterwheel in Z than in
              N. That's something I have wanted to do too, but never got around to it.

              Check out this guy's Z Scale scratchbuilding:
              <http://theotherlionel.com/Zscale_home.html>

              Lionel can get down. Most of his photos show a coin so you can see how
              small his work really is.

              -Robert
            • Bill Hoshiko
              Hi, I have made reference to a few professional model builders. Here is are links to view their work. Malcom Furlow s G scale layouts
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 1, 2006
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                Hi,

                I have made reference to a few professional model builders. Here is
                are links to view their work.

                Malcom Furlow's G scale layouts
                http://www.polyweb.com/dans_rr/blog/?page_id=7
                Malcom's HO layout
                http://www.chriscomport.com/index.php?site=gscale
                Malcom is an artist and in a strict sense he is not a model
                railroader. After appearing in Model Railroader Magazine he gets
                commissioned to build model layouts. His work is expensive because
                it is not his principle field of activity.

                George Sellios
                http://www.trevinocircle.com/FSM.asp
                George is a manufacturer of HO scale structures.

                Lionel Gazeau
                http://theotherlionel.com/
                Lionel is also an artist who appears to concentrates his work within
                a model railroad atmosphere.

                I get no renumeration from any of these professionals and I have
                never communicated with any of them. I am simply a huge model
                railroad fan. If you have a lot of time to surf the net, check out
                this site:
                http://www.billsrailroad.net/bills-favorite-links-pg3

                Although my name appears in the URL it is not mine.

                Bill H.
                El Toro, CA
              • Bill Hoshiko
                Whooops, I got Malcom s links backwards. Bill H. El Toro, CA
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 1, 2006
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                  Whooops, I got Malcom's links backwards.

                  Bill H.
                  El Toro, CA
                • johnegert
                  Richard----- The real trump cards in Z scale structure building are the arts of photoetching and laser cutting. Check our cyber-pal Reynard s work at
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 1, 2006
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                    Richard----- The real trump cards in Z scale structure building are the
                    arts of photoetching and laser cutting. Check our cyber-pal Reynard's
                    work at Micronart, and the equally wonderful Microstructures-- these
                    kits are as good or better than ANYTHING in any scale, bar none. Add
                    Robt. Ray's kits, the various paper kits and others,and, though you
                    won't have quite the variety, you'll have all the quality. As for
                    scenery, the beauty of Z is the ability to approach scale scenery-to-
                    train/structures ratios so as to give the appearance of a RR built
                    through geography, rather than geography added to a layout. I think the
                    advent of Microtrains turnouts will facilitate some large layouts, and
                    Z will garner publicity beyond "curiosity".
                    It's a good time to get on board.......
                    john
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