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What is the steepest grade a Z scale train can go up & down?

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  • Richard Butler
    What is the steepest grade a Z scale train can go up & down? If you can help me by stating it in inch per foot drop or up hill would be helpful. Thanks, Rick
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 30, 2006
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      What is the steepest grade a Z scale train can go up & down? If you
      can help me by stating it in inch per foot drop or up hill would be
      helpful.
      Thanks, Rick
    • Don Avila
      Down is the easy part-vertical off the layout. Up 2% works quite well. If you double head you may get 3% or more, assuming you have curves, but it is kind of
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 30, 2006
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        Down is the easy part-vertical off the layout. Up 2% works quite well.
        If you double head you may get 3% or more, assuming you have curves, but
        it is kind of "check it out" first on YOUR equipment. On a straight
        away with VERY SHORT trains you MIGHT get 4%, but that is stretching it.
        1% is 1 unit up per 100 units horizontal 2% = 2 units up per 100 units
        horizontal etc. ...don

        -----Original Message-----
        From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Richard Butler
        Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:40 PM
        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Z_Scale] What is the steepest grade a Z scale train can go up
        & down?

        What is the steepest grade a Z scale train can go up & down? If you
        can help me by stating it in inch per foot drop or up hill would be
        helpful.
        Thanks, Rick








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      • Jim Glass
        Is there a tool or level that measures grades? I would love to be able to lay a level on the grades of my Noch layout and measure the various grades. JimGl
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 30, 2006
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          Is there a tool or level that measures grades? I would love to be able to lay a level on the grades of my Noch layout and measure the various grades.

          JimGl
          Redmond, WA
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Don Avila<mailto:d.f.avila@...>
          To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com<mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:20 PM
          Subject: RE: [Z_Scale] What is the steepest grade a Z scale train can go up & down?


          Up 2% works quite well.
          If you double head you may get 3% or more, assuming you have curves, but
          it is kind of "check it out" first on YOUR equipment. On a straight
          away with VERY SHORT trains you MIGHT get 4%, but that is stretching it.
          1% is 1 unit up per 100 units horizontal 2% = 2 units up per 100 units
          horizontal etc. ...don

          -----Original Message-----
          From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of Richard Butler

          What is the steepest grade a Z scale train can go up & down?

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Alan Cox
          ... Which model with what attached and what kind of track ? I ve done something of the order of 1 in 7 reliably on a steady curve with short trains where there
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 30, 2006
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            On Iau, 2006-03-30 at 17:40 +0000, Richard Butler wrote:
            > What is the steepest grade a Z scale train can go up & down? If you
            > can help me by stating it in inch per foot drop or up hill would be
            > helpful.

            Which model with what attached and what kind of track ?

            I've done something of the order of 1 in 7 reliably on a steady curve
            with short trains where there are no points on the sharp bits. Since I
            was trying to model mountain railway practice (loco at bottom pushing
            one or two wagons only) that was fine with the fairly light Märklin
            wagons.

            I wouldn't try above 1 in 30 by choice with a longer european train.

            Downwards they'll do vertically, all too happily 8)
          • Uwe Liermann
            Hello Jim, ... hmmm.... there is a tool that does measure the grades of a layout. It s the Maerklin car #86191 It shows directly the grade in %. This car is
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 31, 2006
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              Hello Jim,

              > Is there a tool or level that measures grades? I would love to be
              > able to lay a level on the grades of my Noch layout and measure the
              > various grades.

              hmmm.... there is a tool that does measure the grades of a layout.
              It's the Maerklin car #86191 It shows directly the grade in %. This
              car is intended to be a item for members of the insider club, who are
              a member for 5 years if I remember correctly, but I got this car at
              Ebay Germany, where it shows up very often.

              Another way would be to put one of those small levels which you can
              hang on a line for simple construction work on a flatcar. But on the
              level of this kind that I have somewhere in my toolbox, there are no
              numbers for the grades. It shows only if something is level or not. So
              you would have to mark the numbers before you use it on your layout.

              --
              GreetingZ
              Uwe
            • Don Avila
              ... From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Uwe Liermann Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 3:22 AM To: Jim Glass Subject: Re:
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 31, 2006
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                -----Original Message-----
                From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of Uwe Liermann
                Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 3:22 AM
                To: Jim Glass
                Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] What is the steepest grade a Z scale train can go
                up & down?

                Hello Jim,

                > Is there a tool or level that measures grades? I would love to be
                > able to lay a level on the grades of my Noch layout and measure the
                > various grades.

                hmmm.... there is a tool that does measure the grades of a layout.
                It's the Maerklin car #86191 It shows directly the grade in %.

                * * *
                I also got one from Ebay last year. It is cute, but I find not too
                accurate as confirmed by turning it 180 degrees on the track. I think a
                laser level set on the tracks with a reading off of a wall a few feet
                away might be more accurate.
              • Uwe Liermann
                Hello Don, ... I just checked mine, and I found that it is not 100% correct. But by turning one truck about 180° I got a correct reading. ... but only if
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 31, 2006
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                  Hello Don,

                  > Maerklin car #86191

                  > * * *
                  > It is cute, but I find not too accurate as confirmed by turning it
                  > 180 degrees on the track.

                  I just checked mine, and I found that it is not 100% correct. But by
                  turning one truck about 180° I got a correct reading.

                  > I think a laser level set on the tracks with a reading off of a wall
                  > a few feet away might be more accurate.

                  but only if nothing is in the way of the laser beam to the wall. In
                  those cases I think that the Maerklin car is good enough, just check
                  out by putting it on the track in both directions. At my car the fault
                  was less then 0.5%.


                  --
                  GreetingZ
                  Uwe
                • Don Avila
                  Hi Uwe: Well sure if something is in the way the laser won t work, but heck anyone into Z should be able to do anything. -- :) BTW a 0.5% out of 2% is a
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 31, 2006
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                    Hi Uwe:

                    Well sure if something is in the way the laser won't work, but heck
                    anyone into Z should be able to do anything. -- :)

                    BTW a 0.5% out of 2% is a pretty substantial error percentage wise but
                    for what you are really doing I agree the Marklin unit is O.K., plus it
                    is kind of nice looking. Just think if it were full of beer-I saw some
                    photos the other day in one of the current train magazines with 14 tank
                    cars each holding 10,000 gallons of Coors Beer. Actually I just use
                    Woodland Scenics foam material that has the grades built-in, and
                    purchased the Marklin Z car because no one else bid on it that day. To
                    me, Woodland Scenics is the easy way especially if you are building a
                    curve. ...don

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: z_scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:z_scale@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    Of Uwe Liermann
                    Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 3:34 PM
                    To: Don Avila
                    Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] What is the steepest grade a Z scale train can go
                    up & down?

                    Hello Don,

                    > Maerklin car #86191

                    > * * *
                    > It is cute, but I find not too accurate as confirmed by turning it
                    > 180 degrees on the track.

                    I just checked mine, and I found that it is not 100% correct. But by
                    turning one truck about 180° I got a correct reading.
                  • Chris
                    Figuring out grades is pretty easy, just divide the height by how long it takes to get there. Lets say you wanna go up and over another track at 2 higher than
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 31, 2006
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                      Figuring out grades is pretty easy, just divide the height by how long
                      it takes to get there.

                      Lets say you wanna go up and over another track at 2" higher than the
                      lower track. Now the start of the grade is 8 feet away. 8 feet is 96
                      inches.

                      2 divided by 96 is 0.020833333333 now move the decimal over 2 places
                      and you end up with a 2.08% grade or just call it 2.1%

                      Now if you want to put a riser under your roadbed every foot, just
                      divide the 2" by 8', you will get 0.25, that is 1/4" So your risers
                      would be.
                      0
                      .25"
                      .5"
                      .75"
                      1"
                      1.25"
                      1.5"
                      1.75"
                      2"

                      This is just an example.

                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Butler" <rbutler77@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > What is the steepest grade a Z scale train can go up & down? If you
                      > can help me by stating it in inch per foot drop or up hill would be
                      > helpful.
                      > Thanks, Rick
                      >
                    • Uwe Liermann
                      Hello Don, ... you mean as in: If you can t do it in Z it s impossible anyway, and if you do it, you re a wizard.... ;-)) ... you re right 0.5% out of 2% is
                      Message 10 of 10 , Apr 1, 2006
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                        Hello Don,

                        > Well sure if something is in the way the laser won't work, but heck
                        > anyone into Z should be able to do anything. -- :)

                        you mean as in:

                        If you can't do it in Z it's impossible anyway, and if you do it,
                        you're a wizard.... ;-))

                        > BTW a 0.5% out of 2% is a pretty substantial error percentage wise but
                        > for what you are really doing I agree the Marklin unit is O.K.,

                        you're right 0.5% out of 2% is 25%... but out of 4 it's only 12.5%...

                        ...well now, since we are into % anyway I like to have a 40% (or 80
                        proof) anytime while watching my trains... ;-)

                        ...for getting serious again, I would always recommend to test any
                        grade with the rolling stock that is intended for the use on that
                        layout.

                        > plus it is kind of nice looking. Just think if it were full of
                        > beer-I saw some photos the other day in one of the current train
                        > magazines with 14 tank cars each holding 10,000 gallons of Coors
                        > Beer.

                        lately there was a auction at EBay with a set of glas tank cars
                        labeled for different beverages. The Whiskey and the Rum were still
                        full, but one labeled for beer was empty... :-( ... ;-)

                        and sorry, but I don't know Coors... I always had a Miller time when
                        in the US... and Coors is hard to get over here anyway :-)


                        > To me, Woodland Scenics is the easy way especially if you are
                        > building a curve.

                        It wasn't very hard to build the grade (including curves) in plywood.
                        The main thing is, not to start the grade with a new piece of plywood.
                        I did cut the track base out of the sheet, and then started to bend
                        the grade up after I fixed a good part of the track base level. This
                        way I also did get a very smooth change from level to grade.

                        --
                        GreetingZ
                        Uwe
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