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Re: Urgent Request!!!!

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  • sgt_tim7
    Only way a Santa Fe will be re-painted is if it is made into a BNSF warbonnet scheme! Soon, real soon!!! :) Tim
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 2, 2005
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      Only way a Santa Fe will be re-painted is if it is made into a BNSF
      warbonnet scheme! Soon, real soon!!! :)

      Tim


      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "GordonWerner" <z@w...> wrote:
      > you better not be stripping a BNSF C44!
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "sgt_tim7" <sgt_tim1@y...> wrote:
      > > What is the best thing to strip the paint from an AZL C44-9 brass
      > > shell? Thanks in advance!
      > >
      > > Tim
    • harold grady
      Hi Tim, The best paint stripper would be something for lacquer, nonflammable. I ve used a product from Sears of that description but I cannot recall the name.
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 2, 2005
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        Hi Tim, The best paint stripper would be something for lacquer, nonflammable.
        I've used a product from Sears of that description but I cannot recall the name.
        But it worked very quickly, in lest than 15 minutes, but its stinky.
        Harold Grady

        sgt_tim7 <sgt_tim1@...> wrote:
        What is the best thing to strip the paint from an AZL C44-9 brass
        shell? Thanks in advance!

        Tim





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      • harold grady
        Hey mister Sergeant, Sir are you making decals for a warbonnet dash 9? You know I would like to purchase some. Harold Grady sgt_tim7
        Message 3 of 25 , Sep 2, 2005
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          Hey mister Sergeant, Sir are you making decals for a warbonnet dash 9?
          You know I would like to purchase some.
          Harold Grady

          sgt_tim7 <sgt_tim1@...> wrote:
          Only way a Santa Fe will be re-painted is if it is made into a BNSF
          warbonnet scheme! Soon, real soon!!! :)

          Tim


          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "GordonWerner" <z@w...> wrote:
          > you better not be stripping a BNSF C44!
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "sgt_tim7" <sgt_tim1@y...> wrote:
          > > What is the best thing to strip the paint from an AZL C44-9 brass
          > > shell? Thanks in advance!
          > >
          > > Tim




          -Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!




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        • Robert Ray
          ... Good Luck! I tried to use Easy Lift Off on the lettering of one of my Rio Grande SD-45 s rubbed feverishly with a Q-tip. Not even faded. Whatever kind of
          Message 4 of 25 , Sep 2, 2005
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            sgt_tim7 wrote:
            > What is the best thing to strip the paint from an AZL C44-9 brass
            > shell? Thanks in advance!


            Good Luck! I tried to use Easy Lift Off on the lettering of one of my
            Rio Grande SD-45's rubbed feverishly with a Q-tip. Not even faded.
            Whatever kind of paint they used must have been powder coated and
            baked on!

            I'm thinking of using Aqua Regia, or Hot Mung Cider sparingly applied
            with a teflon brush. Maybe N-Butyl Acetate mixed with Xylene and
            Acetone will work.

            The gist is, it's not easy to strip.

            -Robert
          • sgt_tim7
            Rob Kluz, can you shed any light on this subject? What kind of paint job is done on the C44-9 s? What might be the best method of paint stripping? Thanks!
            Message 5 of 25 , Sep 2, 2005
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              Rob Kluz, can you shed any light on this subject? What kind of paint
              job is done on the C44-9's? What might be the best method of paint
              stripping? Thanks!
              Tim




              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Ray" <pray59@s...> wrote:
              > sgt_tim7 wrote:
              > > What is the best thing to strip the paint from an AZL C44-9 brass
              > > shell? Thanks in advance!
              >
              >
              > Good Luck! I tried to use Easy Lift Off on the lettering of one of my
              > Rio Grande SD-45's rubbed feverishly with a Q-tip. Not even faded.
              > Whatever kind of paint they used must have been powder coated and
              > baked on!
              >
              > I'm thinking of using Aqua Regia, or Hot Mung Cider sparingly applied
              > with a teflon brush. Maybe N-Butyl Acetate mixed with Xylene and
              > Acetone will work.
              >
              > The gist is, it's not easy to strip.
              >
              > -Robert
            • Michael Hilliard
              Hi Guys and Gals, I m honestly disappointed with you Robert R., we model the same era s on different coasts, but haven t you and everyone listened to or tryed
              Message 6 of 25 , Sep 2, 2005
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                Hi Guys and Gals,

                I'm honestly disappointed with you Robert R., we model the same era's on different coasts, but haven't you and everyone listened to or tryed the old fashioned way of paint stripping: Dot 3 Brake Fluid, cheap yet affective. It will even remove lacquer paint from the new mtl gp 35's, with care and attention.

                Here's my experience, not theory; on brass, just put the shell in the brake fluid overnight, then take a old toothbrush to remove the loosened paint, then clean with grease removing dish washing liquid, rinse, then place in household vinegar for a min. or 2, then rinse again and prepare for primer coat of paint.

                If using this method on plastic shells, place in brake fluid as above, but after 20 min., check and use the toothbrush and return it to the brake fluid bath, then check and toothbrush every 10 min. until all paint is removed. Then clean as stated above for brass. With plastic shells, if left in the brake fluid bath longer than it takes to loosen the paint, the brake fluid can start "reacting" with the plastic. Use care & time with my suggestion in regards to stripping paint from plastic, brass, no problem.

                Want proof? Look in the choo choo terrain photo folder of this group for the photo of a Florida East Coast GP 38 shell, stripped with this method and repainted, with floquil paints then decaled.

                Hope this helps, sorry if I sound disturbed, it's probably due to other "things",

                Michael Hilliard
                Wilton, CT USA

                Robert Ray <pray59@...> wrote:
                sgt_tim7 wrote:
                > What is the best thing to strip the paint from an AZL C44-9 brass
                > shell? Thanks in advance!


                Good Luck! I tried to use Easy Lift Off on the lettering of one of my
                Rio Grande SD-45's rubbed feverishly with a Q-tip. Not even faded.
                Whatever kind of paint they used must have been powder coated and
                baked on!

                I'm thinking of using Aqua Regia, or Hot Mung Cider sparingly applied
                with a teflon brush. Maybe N-Butyl Acetate mixed with Xylene and
                Acetone will work.

                The gist is, it's not easy to strip.

                -Robert




                -Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!




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              • Lajos Thek
                ... I didn t try to strip any AZL locomotive, but if they use similar stuff I use for my ET194s, you ll have nothing, but problem. The toughest Jasco paint
                Message 7 of 25 , Sep 2, 2005
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                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "sgt_tim7" <sgt_tim1@y...> wrote:
                  > What is the best thing to strip the paint from an AZL C44-9 brass
                  > shell?

                  I didn't try to strip any AZL locomotive,
                  but if they use similar stuff I use for
                  my ET194s, you'll have nothing, but problem.
                  The toughest "Jasco" paint and epoxy remover
                  did only 50% of the job, the rest was taken
                  off with my small sandblaster using 160 grit
                  aluminum oxide media. Messy job. Next time
                  I'll not screw up any paint job...

                  Lajos
                • Adam
                  You re doing WHAT!?!? Oh, it s ON now, boyeee!!! :p Where s the number for the office... I think I will make myself available to work in Atlanta next week,
                  Message 8 of 25 , Sep 2, 2005
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                    You're doing WHAT!?!?

                    Oh, it's ON now, boyeee!!! :p Where's the number for the office...
                    I think I will make myself available to work in Atlanta next week,
                    just so I can come put a size 12 where it counts...

                    Or can I contribute this momentary lack of reason to the $6 a gallon
                    gasoline you must be sniffing?

                    Have a good weekend regardless...

                    Adam


                    --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "sgt_tim7" <sgt_tim1@y...> wrote:
                    > No, BNSF is Platnum! I am stripping a NS in order to give it a
                    CSX
                    > paint job.
                    >
                    > Tim
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "GordonWerner" <z@w...> wrote:
                    > > you better not be stripping a BNSF C44!
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "sgt_tim7" <sgt_tim1@y...> wrote:
                    > > > What is the best thing to strip the paint from an AZL C44-9
                    brass
                    > > > shell? Thanks in advance!
                    > > >
                    > > > Tim
                  • Loren Snyder
                    ... From: Lajos Thek To: Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 8:23 PM Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Urgent Request!!!!
                    Message 9 of 25 , Sep 2, 2005
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Lajos Thek" <olaj@...>
                      To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 8:23 PM
                      Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: Urgent Request!!!!


                      > the rest was taken
                      > off with my small sandblaster using 160 grit
                      > aluminum oxide media. Messy job. Next time
                      > I'll not screw up any paint job...
                      >
                      > Lajos


                      Lajos,

                      Do you think 80 grit aluminum oxide would be too course?
                      Loren
                    • Lajos Thek
                      ... First, I need to correct my posting, instead of 160 grit, I actually use 220 grit media for sandblasting. Now, to answer your question, the 80 grit is very
                      Message 10 of 25 , Sep 2, 2005
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                        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren Snyder" <ljsnyder@c...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Do you think 80 grit aluminum oxide would be too course?

                        First, I need to correct my posting, instead
                        of 160 grit, I actually use 220 grit media
                        for sandblasting. Now, to answer your question,
                        the 80 grit is very good to eliminate all the
                        details...

                        Lajos
                      • Phil
                        Tim, I am by far no expert and have never done anything like this, but in the May/June 2003 issue of Ztrack, Curtis Cambell wrote an article on repainting
                        Message 11 of 25 , Sep 2, 2005
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                          Tim,

                          I am by far no expert and have never done anything like this, but in
                          the May/June 2003 issue of Ztrack, Curtis Cambell wrote an article on
                          repainting these. He says he used paint thinner for about half an
                          hour to an hour then scrubbed with a paint brush.

                          Hope this helps,


                          Phil


                          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "sgt_tim7" <sgt_tim1@y...> wrote:
                          > What is the best thing to strip the paint from an AZL C44-9 brass
                          > shell? Thanks in advance!
                          >
                          > Tim
                        • Michael Hilliard
                          Hi, I read your earlier posting, I was going to say 160 grit, I would not recomend more than 220 grit as you correctly stated below. Even then I would
                          Message 12 of 25 , Sep 2, 2005
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                            Hi,

                            I read your earlier posting, I "was going to say "160" grit, I would not recomend more than 220 grit as you correctly stated below. Even then I would recomend going down to at least 600 grit before refinishing for paint. 220 grit will work ok, but if you're a fanatic like me, I'd use 220 grit as a starting point.

                            I have the same sandblaster Lajos, my experience has been it's great to do rough finishing of castings, but just the starting point for finished pieces. 80 grit Loren, blast away all detail as Lajos says, way to course for anything Z.

                            Final note, Dot 3 Brake Fluid, much easier and available to all without specialty equipment to simply remove paint, just use with care ( see earlier post).

                            Michael Hilliard

                            Lajos Thek <olaj@...> wrote:
                            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Loren Snyder" <ljsnyder@c...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Do you think 80 grit aluminum oxide would be too course?

                            First, I need to correct my posting, instead
                            of 160 grit, I actually use 220 grit media
                            for sandblasting. Now, to answer your question,
                            the 80 grit is very good to eliminate all the
                            details...

                            Lajos




                            -Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!




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                            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                          • Loren Snyder
                            ... From: Michael Hilliard To: Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Urgent
                            Message 13 of 25 , Sep 2, 2005
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                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Michael Hilliard" <mchwilton@...>
                              To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 9:55 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: Urgent Request!!!!


                              > Hi,
                              >
                              > I read your earlier posting, I "was going to say "160" grit, I would not
                              > recomend more than 220 grit as you correctly stated below. Even then I
                              > would recomend going down to at least 600 grit before refinishing for
                              > paint. 220 grit will work ok, but if you're a fanatic like me, I'd use 220
                              > grit as a starting point.
                              >
                              > I have the same sandblaster Lajos, my experience has been it's great to do
                              > rough finishing of castings, but just the starting point for finished
                              > pieces. 80 grit Loren, blast away all detail as Lajos says, way to course
                              > for anything Z.
                              >
                              > Final note, Dot 3 Brake Fluid, much easier and available to all without
                              > specialty equipment to simply remove paint, just use with care ( see
                              > earlier post).
                              >
                              > Michael Hilliard


                              I appreciated your earlier posting regarding the careful use of Dot 3 brake
                              fluid. Very thorough description of the technique for using on both plastic
                              and brass. This is the kind of information that really helps those trying
                              to achieve the best results. Belongs in the Z encyclopedia.

                              Loren
                            • jim_manley_alpha_six
                              OOOO-RAH Sarge, and Atten-hut to the ReZt of uZ MaggotZ, I have found that the stripperZ found in ScoreZ and The Pink Poodle do a horrible job at removing the
                              Message 14 of 25 , Sep 3, 2005
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                                OOOO-RAH Sarge, and Atten-hut to the ReZt of uZ MaggotZ,

                                I have found that the stripperZ found in ScoreZ and The Pink Poodle do
                                a horrible job at removing the paint from model trainZ, but, if you
                                can get them to show up in your shop, WHO CAREZ?!?!? OK, sorry, I
                                just couldn't reZiZt this late on a Friday night!

                                We now return you to your group, already in progress.

                                All Z BeZt,
                                Jim

                                P.S.: No stripperZ were uZed, much less harmed, in the making of this
                                post. OtherwiZe, this would be my last post, ever (which would only
                                be good newZ to a lot of memberZ ;)


                                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "sgt_tim7" <sgt_tim1@y...> wrote:
                                > What is the best thing to strip the paint from an AZL C44-9 brass
                                > shell? Thanks in advance!
                                >
                                > Tim
                              • ztrack@aol.com
                                ... This was a good article on repainting the C44s to a CSX and Conrail paint scheme. I am not sure the type of thinner he used. Make sure you remove the
                                Message 15 of 25 , Sep 3, 2005
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                                  In a message dated 9/3/05 12:28:31 AM, philaun@... writes:


                                  > the May/June 2003 issue of Ztrack, Curtis Cambell wrote an article on
                                  > repainting these.  He says he used paint thinner for about half an
                                  > hour to an hour then scrubbed with a paint brush.
                                  >
                                  >

                                  This was a good article on repainting the C44s to a CSX and Conrail paint
                                  scheme. I am not sure the type of thinner he used. Make sure you remove the
                                  plastic windows and fiber optic cables in the headlights since these may be damaged
                                  by the thinner or brake fluid.

                                  Unfortunately, I don't have any other recommendations on removing the paint
                                  from AZL locos.

                                  Rob Kluz



                                  Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
                                  6142 Northcliff Blvd.
                                  Dublin, OH 43016
                                  phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
                                  http://www.ztrack.com/
                                  Distributor for American Z Line


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • sgt_tim7
                                  I am afraid my time in Z and with Ztrack does not go back that far. I am on my own! Thanks for all the helpful advise!!! The C44- 9 shell is at this time
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Sep 3, 2005
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                                    I am afraid my time in "Z" and with Ztrack does not go back that
                                    far. I am on my own! Thanks for all the helpful advise!!! The C44-
                                    9 shell is at this time soaking in brake fluid. Hope this works
                                    ok. Will post photos when complete! Have a grand weekend!
                                    Tim

                                    --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, ztrack@a... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > In a message dated 9/3/05 12:28:31 AM, philaun@y... writes:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > the May/June 2003 issue of Ztrack, Curtis Cambell wrote an
                                    article on
                                    > > repainting these.  He says he used paint thinner for about half
                                    an
                                    > > hour to an hour then scrubbed with a paint brush.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > This was a good article on repainting the C44s to a CSX and
                                    Conrail paint
                                    > scheme. I am not sure the type of thinner he used. Make sure you
                                    remove the
                                    > plastic windows and fiber optic cables in the headlights since
                                    these may be damaged
                                    > by the thinner or brake fluid.
                                    >
                                    > Unfortunately, I don't have any other recommendations on removing
                                    the paint
                                    > from AZL locos.
                                    >
                                    > Rob Kluz
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
                                    > 6142 Northcliff Blvd.
                                    > Dublin, OH 43016
                                    > phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
                                    > http://www.ztrack.com/
                                    > Distributor for American Z Line
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • ztrack@aol.com
                                    Tim, You may want to check with Jeff White. He should have the back issue. We also have back issues available. You can see a photo of the finished CSX C44 at:
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Sep 3, 2005
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                                      Tim,

                                      You may want to check with Jeff White. He should have the back issue. We also
                                      have back issues available. You can see a photo of the finished CSX C44 at:

                                      http://www.ztrack.com/asrtpgs/9.3covlg.html

                                      Rob Kluz



                                      Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
                                      6142 Northcliff Blvd.
                                      Dublin, OH 43016
                                      phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
                                      http://www.ztrack.com/
                                      Distributor for American Z Line


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • sgt_tim7
                                      DOT 3 Brake Fluid ain t cutting the Mustard, or at least the AZL paint job. Been soaking for 2 hours and shows no sign of anything! This has got to be an
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Sep 3, 2005
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                                        DOT 3 Brake Fluid ain't cutting the Mustard, or at least the AZL paint
                                        job. Been soaking for 2 hours and shows no sign of anything!

                                        This has got to be an enamel paint. No water based stuff here!

                                        The shell has a thinly aplied coat of paint so it's not thick! A 3600
                                        grit sandpaper sponge will take the paint away from the brass details
                                        with 2 or 3 swipes.

                                        Any other ideas on how to strip the paint??????

                                        How long should this shell soak?

                                        So many questions!!

                                        Harold Grady, what did you use to strip the paint off of that SD45???

                                        Tim
                                      • randy smidt
                                        AAAAhhhhhhhh! The Horror, the horror. It s sacrilidge I say! Why couldn t you have done a horsehead instead? Randy Smidt long hood forward, the way trains
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Sep 3, 2005
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                                          AAAAhhhhhhhh! The Horror, the horror. It's sacrilidge I say!

                                          Why couldn't you have done a horsehead instead?

                                          Randy Smidt

                                          long hood forward, the way trains were meant to run!

                                          sgt_tim7 <sgt_tim1@...> wrote:
                                          I am stripping a NS in order to give it a CSX
                                          paint job.

                                          Tim




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Lajos Thek
                                          ... Answer #2 Jasco paint and epoxy remover and sandblasting (air erasing) with 220 grit media. Lajos
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Sep 3, 2005
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                                            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "sgt_tim7" <sgt_tim1@y...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Any other ideas on how to strip the paint??????

                                            Answer #2
                                            "Jasco" paint and epoxy remover and
                                            sandblasting (air erasing) with 220
                                            grit media.

                                            Lajos
                                          • harold grady
                                            Tim, I used laquer remover. I t worked fairly quickly 10-15 minutes. It s Nonflammable. got it at Sears, but for the life of me cannot recall the brand name.
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Sep 3, 2005
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                                              Tim, I used laquer remover. I t worked fairly quickly 10-15 minutes. It's Nonflammable.
                                              got it at Sears, but for the life of me cannot recall the brand name.
                                              What I did was apply it with an old toothbrush and wait 10-15 min. I then scrubbed it
                                              very vigorously and voila the paint came off in sheets. The only drawback was the
                                              smell. I used it in the basement. But you need some ventilation. I was pleased at
                                              the results. Before I used the laquer removal I left the SD45 in a jar of pinesol for
                                              almost a month and nothing. Ajin precision has the best paint jobs in the industry.
                                              Once your model is painted that paint stays on.

                                              Harold Grady

                                              sgt_tim7 <sgt_tim1@...> wrote:
                                              DOT 3 Brake Fluid ain't cutting the Mustard, or at least the AZL paint
                                              job. Been soaking for 2 hours and shows no sign of anything!

                                              This has got to be an enamel paint. No water based stuff here!

                                              The shell has a thinly aplied coat of paint so it's not thick! A 3600
                                              grit sandpaper sponge will take the paint away from the brass details
                                              with 2 or 3 swipes.

                                              Any other ideas on how to strip the paint??????

                                              How long should this shell soak?

                                              So many questions!!

                                              Harold Grady, what did you use to strip the paint off of that SD45???

                                              Tim




                                              -Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!




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                                            • sgt_tim7
                                              Thanks Harold! I know what ever you used on that SD45 worked well. Laquer remover! Gonna have to go to Sears tomorrow or Home Depot and get me some. It s
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Sep 3, 2005
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                                                Thanks Harold! I know what ever you used on that SD45 worked well.
                                                Laquer remover! Gonna have to go to Sears tomorrow or Home Depot
                                                and get me some. It's either that or use the CSX gray as a
                                                base/primer coat over the NS black.

                                                I did however use a 3200 and a 3600 grit sand sponge to carefully
                                                remove the side pad printed NS signage. The front and rear signage
                                                are decals. The brake fluid made them brittle and with a bit of
                                                fingernail work were removed. I have filed the number boards above
                                                the windows smooth and puttied up the headlights above the windows
                                                too. They have to be relocated along with the number boards. When
                                                finished, it should look pretty darn good.

                                                Depending on how this baby goes, maybe I might try my luck with
                                                custom paint schemes on the new MTL GP35's. "Maybe!"

                                                More later!

                                                Tim





                                                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, harold grady <butch60619@y...> wrote:
                                                > Tim, I used laquer remover. I t worked fairly quickly 10-15
                                                minutes. It's Nonflammable.
                                                > got it at Sears, but for the life of me cannot recall the brand
                                                name.
                                                > What I did was apply it with an old toothbrush and wait 10-15 min.
                                                I then scrubbed it
                                                > very vigorously and voila the paint came off in sheets. The only
                                                drawback was the
                                                > smell. I used it in the basement. But you need some ventilation. I
                                                was pleased at
                                                > the results. Before I used the laquer removal I left the SD45 in a
                                                jar of pinesol for
                                                > almost a month and nothing. Ajin precision has the best paint jobs
                                                in the industry.
                                                > Once your model is painted that paint stays on.
                                                >
                                                > Harold Grady
                                                >
                                                > sgt_tim7 <sgt_tim1@y...> wrote:
                                                > DOT 3 Brake Fluid ain't cutting the Mustard, or at least the AZL
                                                paint
                                                > job. Been soaking for 2 hours and shows no sign of anything!
                                                >
                                                > This has got to be an enamel paint. No water based stuff here!
                                                >
                                                > The shell has a thinly aplied coat of paint so it's not thick! A
                                                3600
                                                > grit sandpaper sponge will take the paint away from the brass
                                                details
                                                > with 2 or 3 swipes.
                                                >
                                                > Any other ideas on how to strip the paint??????
                                                >
                                                > How long should this shell soak?
                                                >
                                                > So many questions!!
                                                >
                                                > Harold Grady, what did you use to strip the paint off of that
                                                SD45???
                                                >
                                                > Tim
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > -Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!
                                                >
                                                >
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