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Re: [z_scale] Turnouts

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  • Dale Halterman
    I would be interested in knowing the pros and cons of floating switches. Dale
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 2, 2001
      I would be interested in knowing the pros and cons of floating switches. Dale

      Nelson Snedeker wrote:

      > I have to add, with Relco and Wahl oil I have a test track with 2,
      > 1972 turnouts and a Layout (in process) with 2 , new turnouts and have
      > no problem , crawling . or at 8 volt top speed. In almost a year I have
      > not had to clean track or car wheels on either set up. I am also one of
      > those that let the switch float so there is no distortion from the
      > design. The two on my layout have been modified to operate with Atlas
      > motors under the table with no problem. Give it another try guys
      >
      > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • D. A. Karp
      There s a reason Marklin doesn t include holes for track nails in their turnouts; if you don t nail or glue your turnouts to your layout, they are less likely
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 2, 2001
        There's a reason Marklin doesn't include holes for track nails in their
        turnouts; if you don't nail or glue your turnouts to your layout, they are
        less likely to be distorted by uneven roadbed. A distorted turnout will not
        only function poorly (or more poorly as the case may be), but derailments
        will be more likely as well. On my layout, I have fastened only the
        adjoining track; the only thing holding the turnouts down (besides the rail
        joiners) is the ballast , which is applied passively; that is, the ballast
        exerts no force on the turnouts, and has little adverse effect on their
        performance.

        As far as I can tell, the only "cons" to floating turnouts is that they can
        be more easily knocked out of alignment (unless you ballast them).



        At 08:50 PM 3/2/2001 -0500, Dale Halterman wrote:
        >I would be interested in knowing the pros and cons of floating switches. Dale

        ___________________________________________
        http://www.creativelement.com/z/
      • Glen Chenier
        With all the recent posts on the new MTL Turnouts I have to throw these comments into the stew... 30 years ago I built my first HO scale layout. I made the
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 1, 2006
          With all the recent posts on the new MTL Turnouts I have to throw
          these comments into the stew...

          30 years ago I built my first HO scale layout. I made the big mistake
          of using two different brands of turnouts (Atlas vs Bachmann). I got
          lucky - there actually was a wheel gauge adjustment that was accepted
          by both turnout dimensions. Standards? What standards?

          On my next HO layout I spiked rail and hand-laid turnouts to NMRA
          standards, having realized that at that time store-bought
          mass-produced turnouts were crap. My ties were wood matchsticks
          soaked in creosote (ahhh - that real railroad smell...) Never any
          problems after that. I could hand-propel a consist at 500 scale mph
          through a series of hand-laid turnouts with never a derailment.

          Moving on to N scale - my store-bought Peco turnouts were not NMRA
          compliant, as I unfortunately discovered when trying to use MTL low
          profile flanges. After a lot of mechanical filing I did get them to work.

          Here's my point - Joe and MTL are trying to provide the best possible
          product. Even with existing NMRA Standards in other scales there have
          been problems. In Z scale these standards are in attempted
          development but not yet final. Members of this list are working on the
          standards. It takes time...
        • Karin Svenson
          ... Standards? What standards? ... there have been problems. In Z scale these standards are in attempted development but not yet final. Members of this list
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 1, 2006
            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Chenier" <chenierfam@...>
            wrote:
            > With all the recent posts on the new MTL Turnouts I have to throw
            > these comments into the stew...
            Standards? What standards?
            >
            > Here's my point- Even with existing NMRA Standards in other scales
            there have been problems. In Z scale these standards are in
            attempted development but not yet final. Members of this list are
            working on the standards. It takes time...

            Glen, great contribution! You have proved that we CAN learn from
            the scales that ran before our own Z and its growing pains. I have
            two questions for you.

            1. If NMRA standards didn't exactly help you in the larger scales do
            we really want to push Z into set standards; which I find to be
            somewhat an oxymoron. And...

            2. "My ties were wood matchsticks soaked in creosote (ahhh - that
            real railroad smell...) Never any problems after that. I could
            hand-propel a consist at 500 scale mph through a series of hand-laid
            turnouts with never a derailment."

            I want to lay all my G scale brass track on cedar ties (yes, I
            realize that I, too, am talking a larger scale here but follow me).
            Where do you get REAL creosote and how do you keep from dying from
            the fumes when working with it. I am very serious on how to find
            the stuff, I'll figure out how to survive the odiferous
            concequenses ;o}

            Karin
          • Don Avila
            Any one notice that not a peep has been made about the fact that when MTL first came out with USA tie spacing and did not follow Marklin we got better looking
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 1, 2006
              Any one notice that not a peep has been made about the fact that when
              MTL first came out with USA tie spacing and did not follow Marklin we
              got better looking track. It gets pretty tricky then to decide that
              someone's standards should be followed or only partly followed or not
              followed at all. MTL/Joe, just bring on more goodies.

              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Chenier" <chenierfam@...> wrote:
              >
              > With all the recent posts on the new MTL Turnouts I have to throw
              > these comments into the stew...
              >
              > 30 years ago I built my first HO scale layout. I made the big mistake
              > of using two different brands of turnouts (Atlas vs Bachmann). I got
              > lucky - there actually was a wheel gauge adjustment that was accepted
              > by both turnout dimensions. Standards? What standards? [snip]
            • Ysbrand van der Veen
              Hello Don, The issue is compatibility i.e. the possibiblity of running trains independent of the manufacturer on all kinds of track and switches. Tie spacing
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 1, 2006
                Hello Don,

                The issue is compatibility i.e. the possibiblity of running trains
                independent of the manufacturer on all kinds of track and switches.
                Tie spacing doesn't have to do with compatibilaty in this sense, it's
                just cosmetics.

                On my test lay-out with an MT oval (couldn't buy the switches yet in
                the Netherlands) and am extended Märklin Oval with a turnout and
                double slip switch I ran all kinds of engines from Märklin, MT and
                several European and US small series producers. No problems except
                with the Cab Forward from a Friend that derailed on both MT and
                Märklin track.

                Best,
                YSbrand


                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Don Avila" <d.f.avila@...> wrote:
                >
                > Any one notice that not a peep has been made about the fact that
                when
                > MTL first came out with USA tie spacing and did not follow Marklin
                we
                > got better looking track. It gets pretty tricky then to decide that
                > someone's standards should be followed or only partly followed or
                not
                > followed at all. MTL/Joe, just bring on more goodies.
                >
                > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Chenier" <chenierfam@> wrote:
                > >
                > > With all the recent posts on the new MTL Turnouts I have to throw
                > > these comments into the stew...
                > >
                > > 30 years ago I built my first HO scale layout. I made the big
                mistake
                > > of using two different brands of turnouts (Atlas vs Bachmann). I
                got
                > > lucky - there actually was a wheel gauge adjustment that was
                accepted
                > > by both turnout dimensions. Standards? What standards? [snip]
                >
              • Ell Geib
                Glen, Isn t the NMRA supposed to chastise manufacturers that don t meet standards? Or at least put them on some non-approved list? Of course, I don t know
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 1, 2006
                  Glen,

                  Isn't the NMRA supposed to "chastise" manufacturers that don't meet
                  standards? Or at least put them on some non-approved list? Of course,
                  I don't know whether that would mean anything in practical terms or
                  not.

                  Ell Geib


                  >In z_scale@yahoogroups.com "Glen Chenier"
                  ><mailto:chenierfam@...?Subject=Re:
                  >Turnouts><chenierfam@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >With all the recent posts on the new MTL Turnouts I have to throw
                  >these comments into the stew...
                  >
                  >30 years ago I built my first HO scale layout. I made the big mistake
                  >of using two different brands of turnouts (Atlas vs Bachmann). I got
                  >lucky - there actually was a wheel gauge adjustment that was accepted
                  >by both turnout dimensions. Standards? What standards?
                  >
                  >SNIP

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Glen Chenier
                  ... This is really a question for a NMRA member, but IMHO I don t think the NMRA chastises any manufacturers - their customers (or sudden lack of) probably do
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 1, 2006
                    --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Ell Geib <geib@...> wrote:

                    > Isn't the NMRA supposed to "chastise" manufacturers that don't meet
                    > standards? Or at least put them on some non-approved list? Of course,
                    > I don't know whether that would mean anything in practical terms or
                    > not.

                    This is really a question for a NMRA member, but IMHO I don't think
                    the NMRA chastises any manufacturers - their customers (or sudden lack
                    of) probably do the necessary.
                  • Glen Chenier
                    ... That was long ago and an example of what can happen when manufacturers do not follow the standards and some poor consumer finds out only after building the
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 1, 2006
                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Karin Svenson" <karin@...> wrote:
                      > 1. If NMRA standards didn't exactly help you in the larger scales do
                      > we really want to push Z into set standards; which I find to be
                      > somewhat an oxymoron. And...

                      That was long ago and an example of what can happen when manufacturers
                      do not follow the standards and some poor consumer finds out only
                      after building the product into the layout; these days I would hope
                      that larger scales are better quality and inter-compatible. To ensure
                      that all maunfacturers' products will work together an 'official'
                      standard is necessary - that is why the NMRA is the the keeper of
                      these standards so that any manufacturer who wants to can design to
                      them. When an official standard does not exist, what dimensions does
                      a manufacturer design to?

                      There are some list members who have been heavily involved in setting
                      Z scale standards. The last I heard these standards have not yet been
                      ratified by the NMRA. Could we hear from these folks and get an
                      update on where things are at?


                      > 2. "My ties were wood matchsticks soaked in creosote (ahhh - that
                      > real railroad smell...)
                      >
                      > I want to lay all my G scale brass track on cedar ties (yes, I
                      > realize that I, too, am talking a larger scale here but follow me).
                      > Where do you get REAL creosote and how do you keep from dying from
                      > the fumes when working with it. I am very serious on how to find
                      > the stuff, I'll figure out how to survive the odiferous
                      > concequenses ;o}
                      >

                      I got the creosote at the local hardware store. In Canada. Years ago.
                      It has since been found to cause cancer (just learned that now from
                      Google) and may not be available anymore. Just did a web search at
                      Lowes.com and they say 'no longer available'. Wow - to think of all
                      those ties I spiked and touched that were soaked in that stuff - if my
                      fingers rot away in the next few years I'll know why. Lesson learned
                      - model railroad chemicals can be hazardous to your health.

                      Best forget about using creosote. Cedar should not need any
                      preservatives anyway.
                    • David George
                      NMRA encourages and offers a podium but does not control or enforce. Mister Dave ... From: Ell Geib To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 01,
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 2, 2006
                        NMRA encourages and offers a podium but does not control or enforce.

                        Mister Dave

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Ell Geib
                        To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:16 PM
                        Subject: [Z_Scale] Turnouts


                        Glen,

                        Isn't the NMRA supposed to "chastise" manufacturers that don't meet
                        standards? Or at least put them on some non-approved list? Of course,
                        I don't know whether that would mean anything in practical terms or
                        not.

                        Ell Geib

                        >In z_scale@yahoogroups.com "Glen Chenier"
                        ><mailto:chenierfam@...?Subject=Re:
                        >Turnouts><chenierfam@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >With all the recent posts on the new MTL Turnouts I have to throw
                        >these comments into the stew...
                        >
                        >30 years ago I built my first HO scale layout. I made the big mistake
                        >of using two different brands of turnouts (Atlas vs Bachmann). I got
                        >lucky - there actually was a wheel gauge adjustment that was accepted
                        >by both turnout dimensions. Standards? What standards?
                        >
                        >SNIP

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • David Epling
                        Greetings Earthlings, Will MTL turnouts drop right into a slot that originally held a Marklin turnout? Thanks David Epling Manager Western Pacific RR Museum
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 5 11:59 AM
                          Greetings Earthlings,

                          Will MTL turnouts drop right into a slot that originally held a Marklin
                          turnout?

                          Thanks

                          David Epling
                          Manager
                          Western Pacific RR Museum
                          http://www.wplives.org
                          Museum: 530-832-4131
                          Cell: 209-915-5169
                          david_epling@...
                        • Robert Ray
                          ... Marklin ... Yes they will, however the rail height might not be exactly the same amd require a bit of filing if trains do wheel hopping on you.
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 5 1:16 PM
                            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "David Epling" <cct24@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Greetings Earthlings,
                            >
                            > Will MTL turnouts drop right into a slot that originally held a
                            Marklin
                            > turnout?
                            >
                            >


                            Yes they will, however the rail height might not be exactly the same
                            amd require a bit of filing if trains do wheel hopping on you.
                          • John Duino
                            Not quite, as the MTL s have the roadbed attached and Marklin s are plain. Peter Wright turnouts do, but the tie-spacing is North American. Why not just
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 5 1:16 PM
                              Not quite, as the MTL's have the roadbed attached and Marklin's are plain.
                              Peter Wright turnouts do, but the tie-spacing is North American.

                              Why not just replace with Marklin (after some appropriate fine-tuning)?

                              John

                              > Greetings Earthlings,
                              >
                              > Will MTL turnouts drop right into a slot that originally held a Marklin
                              > turnout?
                              >
                              > Thanks
                              >
                              > David Epling
                              > Manager
                              > Western Pacific RR Museum
                              > http://www.wplives.org
                              > Museum: 530-832-4131
                              > Cell: 209-915-5169
                              > david_epling@...
                            • hobbycraftsnmore
                              Hi David Epling As Robert said they will match up except the height. You can see the height difference on my website I have an area that shows how to join
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 5 3:17 PM
                                Hi David Epling


                                As Robert said they will match up except the height. You can see the
                                height difference on my website I have an area that shows how to join
                                Marklin and MTL track together. Here is the link

                                Just Copy and Paste


                                http://www.hobbycraftsnmore.com/FAQ%20Pages/Hobby/Trains/Z%
                                20Scale/MTL%20Micro-Track%20connecting%20to%20Marklin%20Track.htm



                                Kevin
                                Hobby Crafts N More
                                Website:
                                www.hobbycraftsnmore.com
                                Email:
                                hobbycraftsnmorer@...






                                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "David Epling" <cct24@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Greetings Earthlings,
                                >
                                > Will MTL turnouts drop right into a slot that originally held a
                                Marklin
                                > turnout?
                                >

                                >
                              • David Epling
                                Thanks to all who replied. We will get the problem turnout under control today.
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 6 11:29 AM
                                  Thanks to all who replied. We will get the problem turnout under control
                                  today.
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