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Z locomotives and cars from Japan

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  • Harald Freudenreich
    ... Ben, these days - yes. But Japanese N-scale started to grow up in the 1960ies. At this time nobody talked about Z-scale and 6.5 mm track. Now neither the
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 1, 2005
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      "bscaro" <bscaro@...> schrieb:
      >Hi all
      >
      >It is kind of odd that the Japanese don't use the combination
      >available these days of N scale and Z track -Nn3, or Nn3.5 in this
      >case - to model Japanese trains on 3'6" - which would be most
      >prototypical of all, and which would probably not require fiddling
      >about with scale.
      >
      >Cheers
      >
      >Ben

      Ben,

      these days - yes. But Japanese N-scale started to grow up in the 1960ies.
      At this time nobody talked about Z-scale and 6.5 mm track.
      Now neither the Japanese Modelrailroad industry is willing to scrap their
      expensive 1:150/ 9mm tooling nor Japanese N-scaler would be willing to scrap their
      collection to start new with Nn3.5.

      For Japanese Z it is similar but not identical. 1:220 Japanese Z would require
      a mass produced "plug and play" track system of about 5.0 mm gauge. To be quite
      honest: No manufacturer is willing to cover the risk for this adventure. A track
      system with cheap tooling needs very good craftsman skills for track laying - such as
      ASPEN Zm/Zn3. This kind of track is no base to make Japanese Z popular. This is
      a craftmen challenge for talented Zm-modelers only.

      Harald
      --
      FREUDENREICH FEINWERKTECHNIK
      Harald Freudenreich
      Schwarzer Weg 1B
      D-18190 Sanitz/Meckl.

      phone: +49 38209 49160 fax: 49161 e-mail: FR.model@... internet: www.fr-model.de
    • bscaro
      Hi Harald Yes, people were a little more cavalier about scales in the 60s, and didn t worry about creating all sorts of compromises like British TT -3mm/ft
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 1, 2005
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        Hi Harald

        Yes, people were a little more 'cavalier' about scales in the 60s,
        and didn't worry about creating all sorts of compromises like British
        TT -3mm/ft etc and 1:148.

        While the Japanese market is now wedded to its compromise
        scale/gauge, the industry there is so prolific that I would be
        surprised if eventually someone doesn't have a go at Nn3 - which is
        now a pretty well established scale.

        I would not remotely expect Zm or Zn3.5 though, that would really be
        pioneer territory !

        Cheers

        Ben

        >
        > these days - yes. But Japanese N-scale started to grow up in the
        1960ies.
        > At this time nobody talked about Z-scale and 6.5 mm track.
        > Now neither the Japanese Modelrailroad industry is willing to scrap
        their
        > expensive 1:150/ 9mm tooling nor Japanese N-scaler would be willing
        to scrap their
        > collection to start new with Nn3.5.
        >
        > For Japanese Z it is similar but not identical. 1:220 Japanese Z
        would require
        > a mass produced "plug and play" track system of about 5.0 mm gauge.
        To be quite
        > honest: No manufacturer is willing to cover the risk for this
        adventure. A track
        > system with cheap tooling needs very good craftsman skills for
        track laying - such as
        > ASPEN Zm/Zn3. This kind of track is no base to make Japanese Z
        popular. This is
        > a craftmen challenge for talented Zm-modelers only.
        >
        > Harald
        > --
        >
      • Robert Toole
        Gee Ben, I thought that it was primarly Switzerland that used meter guage. After reading your posting and looking of old photo that I took back in the 60 s
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 1, 2005
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          Gee Ben,
          I thought that it was primarly Switzerland that used
          meter guage. After reading your posting and looking
          of old photo that I took back in the 60's during the
          Vietnam Era, I was staioned at Bangkok and remember
          ridding the trains on my days off. I didn't realize
          that that track was meter guage, I was more interested
          in taking pictures of the steam engines that they were
          still running and the "Kings Train" that was kept on
          the siding beside the main depot in Bangkok.
          Robert

          --- bscaro <bscaro@...> wrote:

          > Hi Dan, I'm aware of the scale being larger, it's
          > often 1:150 or even
          > 1:140.
          >
          > I think the reason was the same as the British - eg
          > a need to fit the
          > motors available when N scale started into the
          > prototypically smaller
          > Japanese loco bodies - given modern narrow gauge
          > locos are typically
          > 75% of the size of standard gauge in real life.
          >
          > Here's a metre gauge Thai diesel with a BN GE unit
          > to show the
          > comparison:
          >
          > http://www.locopage.net/rsr-4523.jpg
          >
          > However, these days smaller mechanisms are available
          > and so there's
          > no need to up the scale.
          >
          > And given Nn3 is established as regards standards,
          > gauge, etc, 1:160
          > on Z gauge track - scaling to 3'4" gauge - would
          > make Nn3 a suitable
          > scale for Japanese 3'6" modelling - and provide a
          > lot of useful Z
          > gauge bits and pieces as a side issue !
          >
          > Not to mention it would give a kickstart to
          > modelling in the many
          > countries that use either 3', metre or 3'6" as their
          > gauge.
          >
          > That includes lots of Central and South America, all
          > SE Asian
          > countries, Japan, Taiwan, a fair whack of India,
          > about half of
          > Australia, all of New Zealand and far and away the
          > majority of
          > Africa.
          >
          > Ben
          >
          >
          > > Ben,
          > > I believe that is why the Japanese use different
          > scales. In order
          > to use the
          > > same guage track as everyone else, they had to
          > shift the scaling of
          > Japanese
          > > prototype models. Their prototype rail spacing is
          > narrower than
          > ours.
          > > Dan S
          > >
          > > In a message dated 5/31/2005 8:05:42 AM Eastern
          > Daylight Time,
          > > bscaro@y... writes:
          > > Hi all
          > >
          > > It is kind of odd that the Japanese don't use the
          > combination
          > > available these days of N scale and Z track -Nn3,
          > or Nn3.5 in this
          > > case - to model Japanese trains on 3'6" - which
          > would be most
          > > prototypical of all, and which would probably not
          > require fiddling
          > > about with scale.
          > >
          > > Cheers
          > >
          > > Ben
          > >
          > >
          > > Considering everything in Japan is
          > > > a bit smaller (including the Cape gauge of 1067
          > mm) Japanese Z
          > with
          > > 1/200
          > > > appears a bit more tiny than regular European
          > and American Z of
          > > 1/220!!!
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          >
          >


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        • Robert Toole
          Oh, I forgot, I didn t get the opportunity to ride from Bangkok to Singapore on the train, bummer. Robert ... __________________________________ Discover
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 1, 2005
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            Oh, I forgot, I didn't get the opportunity to ride
            from Bangkok to Singapore on the train, bummer.
            Robert

            --- bscaro <bscaro@...> wrote:

            > Hi Dan, I'm aware of the scale being larger, it's
            > often 1:150 or even
            > 1:140.
            >
            > I think the reason was the same as the British - eg
            > a need to fit the
            > motors available when N scale started into the
            > prototypically smaller
            > Japanese loco bodies - given modern narrow gauge
            > locos are typically
            > 75% of the size of standard gauge in real life.
            >
            > Here's a metre gauge Thai diesel with a BN GE unit
            > to show the
            > comparison:
            >
            > http://www.locopage.net/rsr-4523.jpg
            >
            > However, these days smaller mechanisms are available
            > and so there's
            > no need to up the scale.
            >
            > And given Nn3 is established as regards standards,
            > gauge, etc, 1:160
            > on Z gauge track - scaling to 3'4" gauge - would
            > make Nn3 a suitable
            > scale for Japanese 3'6" modelling - and provide a
            > lot of useful Z
            > gauge bits and pieces as a side issue !
            >
            > Not to mention it would give a kickstart to
            > modelling in the many
            > countries that use either 3', metre or 3'6" as their
            > gauge.
            >
            > That includes lots of Central and South America, all
            > SE Asian
            > countries, Japan, Taiwan, a fair whack of India,
            > about half of
            > Australia, all of New Zealand and far and away the
            > majority of
            > Africa.
            >
            > Ben
            >
            >
            > > Ben,
            > > I believe that is why the Japanese use different
            > scales. In order
            > to use the
            > > same guage track as everyone else, they had to
            > shift the scaling of
            > Japanese
            > > prototype models. Their prototype rail spacing is
            > narrower than
            > ours.
            > > Dan S
            > >
            > > In a message dated 5/31/2005 8:05:42 AM Eastern
            > Daylight Time,
            > > bscaro@y... writes:
            > > Hi all
            > >
            > > It is kind of odd that the Japanese don't use the
            > combination
            > > available these days of N scale and Z track -Nn3,
            > or Nn3.5 in this
            > > case - to model Japanese trains on 3'6" - which
            > would be most
            > > prototypical of all, and which would probably not
            > require fiddling
            > > about with scale.
            > >
            > > Cheers
            > >
            > > Ben
            > >
            > >
            > > Considering everything in Japan is
            > > > a bit smaller (including the Cape gauge of 1067
            > mm) Japanese Z
            > with
            > > 1/200
            > > > appears a bit more tiny than regular European
            > and American Z of
            > > 1/220!!!
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > removed]
            >
            >
            >




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