Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

new layout opinion time

Expand Messages
  • Chris Mears
    Hello. I am contemplating the construction of a small Z switching layout. I have worked for some long time in 2mm and N scale. Most layouts that I see are
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 29, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello.

      I am contemplating the construction of a small Z switching layout. I
      have worked for some long time in 2mm and N scale. Most layouts that
      I see are continuous run, is switching something that is possible in Z?

      I am thinking of handlaying my own track. I imagine that code 40 rail
      would be best. That said, I have a supply of code 55 and from what I
      understand, the commercial track (Peco, Microtrains, Marklin) all use
      rail that is roughly similar to code 55. Thoughts?

      I'm looking forward to what you have to say.

      Chris Mears
      Charlottetown, PEI
      Charlottetown, PEI
    • de Champeaux Dominique
      ... Hi Chris, myself I find continuous loops boring and unprototypical. That s why I am working on a working diorama which is indeed a switching layout. The
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        --- Chris Mears <orangegarage@...> a écrit :
        >
        >
        > Hello.
        >
        > I am contemplating the construction of a small Z
        > switching layout. I
        > have worked for some long time in 2mm and N scale.
        > Most layouts that
        > I see are continuous run, is switching something
        > that is possible in Z?


        Hi Chris, myself I find continuous loops boring and
        unprototypical. That's why I am working on a working
        diorama which is indeed a switching layout. The
        purpose of this, was:

        -beeing able to run my trains while I was living in a
        small appartment with very few room

        -practicing with track laying, wiring and scenery to
        gain an experience for my mail layout (on which I'm
        now working, parallely to the first one).

        -and having fun! Instead of a continuous loop, that
        implies tight and unprototypical curves, and "boring"
        operations (I should get quickly tired of seeing the
        train turning and turning...).

        So I built a 25 x 130 cm diorama (sorry for inches,
        2/16", 30/83" and others 245/26243" - grin! -, but I'm
        european and I've just drank 1/4 gallon of wine at a
        family lunch, so I'm lacking computering skill this
        afternoon! So my fellow NA friends, please translate!)
        which will finally represent a small part of the
        Mojave desert, with a part of main line, and some
        spurs for swiching. I inserted some Micro-Trains
        magnets at chosen locations under the roadbed, and I
        have a lot of fun with switching, thanks for MTL and
        AZL locos low speed capacity.

        Currently I have finished with:

        -track laying,

        -wiring,

        -track weathering,

        And I'm now in the process of glueing ballast.



        > I am thinking of handlaying my own track. I imagine
        > that code 40 rail
        > would be best. That said, I have a supply of code
        > 55 and from what I
        > understand, the commercial track (Peco, Microtrains,
        > Marklin) all use
        > rail that is roughly similar to code 55. Thoughts?

        Personnally I'm using a mix of Marklin sectional
        (straight and curved R = 495 mm) and Peco flex on this
        diorama. Turnouts are modified Marklin R495mm, with
        the lateral mechanism removed and replaced with
        undertable Tortoises.

        Hope this helps, and happy new year,

        Dominique






        Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails !
        Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.mail.yahoo.com/
      • Lajos Thek
        ... Boring? The continuous loops shouldn t mean the trains must run around and around like a wind-up toy. One of the reasons God invented the tunnel, you can
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, de Champeaux Dominique
          <ddechamp71@y...> wrote:
          > ...I find continuous loops boring and
          > unprototypical.

          Boring? The continuous loops shouldn't mean
          the trains must run around and around like
          a wind-up toy. One of the reasons God invented
          the tunnel, you can stop a train inside, start
          another one on the same or opposite direction,
          you can create real action on both side of one
          single tunnel. If you install a hidden staging
          yard, the whole thing become even more interesting.
          You can run fairly long trainZ based on some kind
          of time table. Now, if you combine your hidden
          yard with an open switching yard, you have almost
          everything...

          Lajos
        • Glen Chenier
          ... wrote: ... in Z? ... For handlaying and track info, go to the list home page, click on Z Scale enZyclopedia, then scroll down to Track Zone and click on
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Mears" <orangegarage@y...>
            wrote:
            ... Most layouts that
            > I see are continuous run, is switching something that is possible
            in Z?
            >
            > ...I am thinking of handlaying my own track. ...

            For handlaying and track info, go to the list home page, click on Z
            Scale enZyclopedia, then scroll down to Track Zone and click on the
            links there.

            Both continuous run and operations are done in Z scale. Combining
            the two lets a train run around unattended in the background while
            you concentrate on 'operating' another train. Loop curves can be
            disguised behind or under scenery, be sure to allow access for track
            cleaning. Sharing the mainline between 2 trains makes for some
            interesting timing challenges. For yard or industrial shunting Micro-
            Trains couplers work with between the rails magnets, or with a hand
            held magnet glued to a wood stick or home made magnetic tongs. A
            popular N scale plastic twist stick also works for Z scale MT
            couplers, especially if you file the tip a little, and if your hands
            are steady enough to prevent derailing the cars at the same time.
          • Bill Hoshiko
            ... I have worked for some long time in 2mm and N scale. Most layouts that I see are continuous run, is switching something that is possible in Z? ... rail
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              "Chris Mears" <orangegarage@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello.
              >
              > I am contemplating the construction of a small Z switching layout.
              I have worked for some long time in 2mm and N scale. Most layouts
              that I see are continuous run, is switching something that is possible
              in Z?
              >
              > I am thinking of handlaying my own track. I imagine that code 40
              rail would be best. That said, I have a supply of code 55 and from
              what I understand, the commercial track (Peco, Microtrains, Marklin)
              all use rail that is roughly similar to code 55. Thoughts?
              >
              > I'm looking forward to what you have to say.
              >
              > Chris Mears


              Hi Chris,

              Welcome to the challenge of switching in Z. Since you worked in 2mm
              you must have developed specialized modeling skills. Z just pushes
              the envelope a little more.

              If you are still a member of the 2MM Association they have a code 30
              ribbon rail available. Z scale PC ties are available from Fast Track
              at http://www.handlaidtrack.com/ . If you are hand laying, you should
              push your efforts toward greater rewards. When you come to the golden
              spike event after using code 55 rail you will only regret that you did
              not use something smaller.

              Build to the limits of your skills and beyond. A switching layout in
              Z can be built in a very small space. A Z scale train with a MT F7
              and 4 cars is a little more than 13 inches long. A 10 x 36 inch
              layout would be a generous switching layout. If you build using
              British prototypes you could build in even smaller spaces.

              A switching layout is viewed up close. Please refrain from using
              Marklin couplers. They totally destroy any illusion of reality.

              For smooth slow operation you need special consideration for
              electrical pick up. Wheel wipers from
              http://home.comcast.net/~chenierfam/wheel.htm .

              The controller by Lajos Thek would be a good choice for a switching
              layout. It can move your engine at a crawl. So slow that it is hard
              to know that it is moving. The controller also has no feedback
              (momentum) so switching moves are easier to make. See:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale/message/27043 Lajos also had
              some wheel contacts for improving electrical pick up.
              See:http://members.dslextreme.com/users/olaj/index.htm

              In addition there is the slow speed controller by Jeremy Brandon.
              See: http://www.ztrack.com/mrtsbcatpgs/ztrackaccess.html .
              It uses feedback to give steady running, gradual acceleration and
              braking. These are features more useful for layouts with mainline
              operations. Most times switching layouts are easier to control
              without these features. At least for ham handed switchers like me.

              The more difficult the climb the more satisfying it is to reach your goal.

              Bill
              El Toro, Ca
            • Jeremy Brandon
              ... I would like to answer this comment! The DeLuxe has gradual acceleration and braking just so it CAN be used on switching layouts. The rate of change of
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Hoshiko" <billhko@y...> wrote:
                > In addition there is the slow speed controller by Jeremy Brandon.
                > See: http://www.ztrack.com/mrtsbcatpgs/ztrackaccess.html .
                > It uses feedback to give steady running, gradual acceleration and
                > braking. These are features more useful for layouts with mainline
                > operations. Most times switching layouts are easier to control
                > without these features. At least for ham handed switchers like me.

                I would like to answer this comment! The DeLuxe has gradual
                acceleration and braking just so it CAN be used on switching layouts.
                The rate of change of speed is very quick so it is easy to control the
                locos, but it is impossible to jerk the train and accidently uncouple
                what you have just painstakingly coupled together. Manfred Joerger and
                I do a lot of switching with the DeLuxe and wouldn't use anything else!

                It's not switching, but if you want to see the control possible with
                the DeLuxe, take a look at this video, courtesy of Jens Wimmel who
                recorded it from German television:

                http://home.datacomm.ch/zettsiite/MBB.avi

                Jeremy.
              • omg_joel
                I went to that sight and hear ok but I can t SEE anything, and I m not blind. Wassup ... I would like to answer this comment! The DeLuxe has gradual
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  I went to that sight and hear ok but I can't SEE anything, and I'm not blind. Wassup

                  Jeremy Brandon <Jeremy.Brandon@...> wrote:
                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Hoshiko" <billhko@y...> wrote:
                  > In addition there is the slow speed controller by Jeremy Brandon.
                  > See: http://www.ztrack.com/mrtsbcatpgs/ztrackaccess.html .
                  > It uses feedback to give steady running, gradual acceleration and
                  > braking. These are features more useful for layouts with mainline
                  > operations. Most times switching layouts are easier to control
                  > without these features. At least for ham handed switchers like me.

                  I would like to answer this comment! The DeLuxe has gradual
                  acceleration and braking just so it CAN be used on switching layouts.
                  The rate of change of speed is very quick so it is easy to control the
                  locos, but it is impossible to jerk the train and accidently uncouple
                  what you have just painstakingly coupled together. Manfred Joerger and
                  I do a lot of switching with the DeLuxe and wouldn't use anything else!

                  It's not switching, but if you want to see the control possible with
                  the DeLuxe, take a look at this video, courtesy of Jens Wimmel who
                  recorded it from German television:

                  http://home.datacomm.ch/zettsiite/MBB.avi

                  Jeremy.





                  -Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!



                  Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


                  ---------------------------------
                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale/

                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  z_scale-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  http://mail.yahoo.com

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • David George
                  Jeremy, I just received 2 of the Deluxe Controlers for the expressed purpose of using them in a large switch yard on my layout. I intend to electrically
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Jeremy,
                    I just received 2 of the Deluxe Controlers for the expressed purpose of using them in a large switch yard on my layout. I intend to electrically isolate the yard areas so that train show attendees may try their talents at making up train sets. I especially want young kids to have fun ( under a Z -Head's supervision ,of course ) moving a yard loco and cars around,,which will show that Z scale is truly an operating scale.
                    You'll see the size of the yard in an upcoming issue of Z Track.

                    Cordially,
                    Mister Dave
                    "Golden ~ Blackhawk & Central City "
                    Spring , Texas

                    Jeremy Brandon <Jeremy.Brandon@...> wrote:


                    > See: http://www.ztrack.com/mrtsbcatpgs/ztrackaccess.html .
                    >
                    I would like to answer this comment! The DeLuxe has gradual
                    acceleration and braking just so it CAN be used on switching layouts.
                    The rate of change of speed is very quick so it is easy to control the
                    locos, but it is impossible to jerk the train and accidently uncouple
                    what you have just painstakingly coupled together. Manfred Joerger and
                    I do a lot of switching with the DeLuxe and wouldn't use anything else!

                    http://home.datacomm.ch/zettsiite/MBB.avi

                    Jeremy.





                    -Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!



                    Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


                    ---------------------------------
                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale/

                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    z_scale-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • jim_manley_alpha_six
                    Hi Jeremy, All I get when I try to play MBB.avi in Windoze Media Mangler/Player video-wise is a psychedelic clip that looks like something you d see in Apple
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Jeremy,

                      All I get when I try to play MBB.avi in Windoze Media Mangler/Player
                      video-wise is a psychedelic clip that looks like something you'd see
                      in Apple iTuneZ when it's playing something not-too-wild, and I'm not
                      hearing any sound (but I'm working on a new computer that may not be
                      quite configured correctly, at the moment, especially since I was
                      trying to get voice chat working on it last night).

                      All Z BeZt,
                      Jim

                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Brandon" <Jeremy.Brandon@t...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > It's not switching, but if you want to see the control possible with
                      > the DeLuxe, take a look at this video, courtesy of Jens Wimmel who
                      > recorded it from German television:
                      >
                      > http://home.datacomm.ch/zettsiite/MBB.avi
                    • pray59_2
                      Nice video! Is it a tv news clip? (I don t speek german) I used the ffdshow DivX codec to play it. -Robert
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Nice video! Is it a tv news clip? (I don't speek german) I used the
                        ffdshow DivX codec to play it.

                        -Robert
                      • jim_manley_alpha_six
                        Right you are, aZ alwayZ, Robert, For Windoze and Mac uZerZ, you can download the far-superior-to-WiMP DivX player (and six month trial of the DivX Pro encoder
                        Message 11 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Right you are, aZ alwayZ, Robert,

                          For Windoze and Mac uZerZ, you can download the far-superior-to-WiMP
                          DivX player (and six month trial of the DivX Pro encoder - very cool) at:

                          http://www.divx.com/divx/download/

                          ThankZ to Jeremy and Jens for the clip, and All Z BeZt,
                          Jim


                          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "pray59_2" <pray59@s...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Nice video! Is it a tv news clip? (I don't speek german) I used the
                          > ffdshow DivX codec to play it.
                          >
                          > -Robert
                        • de Champeaux Dominique
                          ... Lajos, in the absolute I agree with you. But, my opinion, and only my opinion, is: - a railroad is made to carry freight or passengers from a point A to a
                          Message 12 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- Lajos Thek <olaj@...> a écrit :
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, de Champeaux
                            > Dominique
                            > <ddechamp71@y...> wrote:
                            > > ...I find continuous loops boring and
                            > > unprototypical.
                            >
                            > Boring? The continuous loops shouldn't mean
                            > the trains must run around and around like
                            > a wind-up toy. One of the reasons God invented
                            > the tunnel, you can stop a train inside, start
                            > another one on the same or opposite direction,
                            > you can create real action on both side of one
                            > single tunnel. If you install a hidden staging
                            > yard, the whole thing become even more interesting.
                            > You can run fairly long trainZ based on some kind
                            > of time table. Now, if you combine your hidden
                            > yard with an open switching yard, you have almost
                            > everything...
                            >
                            > Lajos


                            Lajos, in the absolute I agree with you. But, my
                            opinion, and only my opinion, is:

                            - a railroad is made to carry freight or passengers
                            from a point A to a point B.

                            - if you are lacking room, wich is oftenly the case of
                            Z scalers, a continuous loop means tight curve radii.
                            That's why, as my restrictions "were" very few
                            available room, I chose a switching type layout to
                            begin, to have something which is fun to operate, and
                            that is, in my opinion, more prototypical than a coffe
                            table sized loop.

                            Just my opinion.

                            Dominique






                            Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails !
                            Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.mail.yahoo.com/
                          • Dennis Skea
                            One great thing about model railroading: YOU are the president, COO, Chief Engineer, Conductor, and everything else. This means that YOU decide what goes. I
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              One great thing about model railroading: YOU are the president, COO, Chief Engineer, Conductor, and everything else. This means that YOU decide what goes.
                              I love switching layouts; I'm always putting them together on a 1' x 4' foam base, but I also LOVE running trains, so I use a 2' x 4' foam base for that. Have Fun!!!!!
                              Dennis Skea
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: de Champeaux Dominique
                              To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: 12/30/2004 7:45 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Re: new layout opinion time


                              --- Lajos Thek <olaj@...> a écrit :
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, de Champeaux
                              > Dominique
                              > <ddechamp71@y...> wrote:
                              > > ...I find continuous loops boring and
                              > > unprototypical.
                              >
                              > Boring? The continuous loops shouldn't mean
                              > the trains must run around and around like
                              > a wind-up toy. One of the reasons God invented
                              > the tunnel, you can stop a train inside, start
                              > another one on the same or opposite direction,
                              > you can create real action on both side of one
                              > single tunnel. If you install a hidden staging
                              > yard, the whole thing become even more interesting.
                              > You can run fairly long trainZ based on some kind
                              > of time table. Now, if you combine your hidden
                              > yard with an open switching yard, you have almost
                              > everything...
                              >
                              > Lajos


                              Lajos, in the absolute I agree with you. But, my
                              opinion, and only my opinion, is:

                              - a railroad is made to carry freight or passengers
                              from a point A to a point B.

                              - if you are lacking room, wich is oftenly the case of
                              Z scalers, a continuous loop means tight curve radii.
                              That's why, as my restrictions "were" very few
                              available room, I chose a switching type layout to
                              begin, to have something which is fun to operate, and
                              that is, in my opinion, more prototypical than a coffe
                              table sized loop.

                              Just my opinion.

                              Dominique






                              Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails !
                              Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.mail.yahoo.com/


                              -Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!



                              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                              ADVERTISEMENT





                              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Yahoo! Groups Links

                              a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale/

                              b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              z_scale-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                              c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • ted_lamar@peoplesoft.com
                              I am hearing the German dialogue (and little Z motors) - but not seeing anything. Ted LaMar QAE-EPM-Portal 925-694-5839 Let us not grow tired of doing good,
                              Message 14 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I am hearing the German dialogue (and little Z motors) - but not seeing
                                anything.

                                Ted LaMar
                                QAE-EPM-Portal
                                925-694-5839

                                "Let us not grow tired of doing good, for in due time we shall reap the
                                harvest, if we do not give up."




                                "jim_manley_alpha
                                _six" To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                <jim_manley@hotma cc: (bcc: Ted Lamar/PeopleSoft)
                                il.com> Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: new layout opinion time for switching

                                12/30/2004 02:57
                                PM
                                Please respond to
                                z_scale









                                Hi Jeremy,

                                All I get when I try to play MBB.avi in Windoze Media Mangler/Player
                                video-wise is a psychedelic clip that looks like something you'd see
                                in Apple iTuneZ when it's playing something not-too-wild, and I'm not
                                hearing any sound (but I'm working on a new computer that may not be
                                quite configured correctly, at the moment, especially since I was
                                trying to get voice chat working on it last night).

                                All Z BeZt,
                                Jim

                                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Brandon" <Jeremy.Brandon@t...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > It's not switching, but if you want to see the control possible with
                                > the DeLuxe, take a look at this video, courtesy of Jens Wimmel who
                                > recorded it from German television:
                                >
                                > http://home.datacomm.ch/zettsiite/MBB.avi







                                -Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!

                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • omg_joel
                                ME TOO ted_lamar@peoplesoft.com wrote: I am hearing the German dialogue (and little Z motors) - but not seeing anything. Ted LaMar QAE-EPM-Portal 925-694-5839
                                Message 15 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  ME TOO

                                  ted_lamar@... wrote:

                                  I am hearing the German dialogue (and little Z motors) - but not seeing
                                  anything.

                                  Ted LaMar
                                  QAE-EPM-Portal
                                  925-694-5839

                                  "Let us not grow tired of doing good, for in due time we shall reap the
                                  harvest, if we do not give up."




                                  "jim_manley_alpha
                                  _six" To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                  <jim_manley@hotma cc: (bcc: Ted Lamar/PeopleSoft)
                                  il.com> Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: new layout opinion time for switching

                                  12/30/2004 02:57
                                  PM
                                  Please respond to
                                  z_scale









                                  Hi Jeremy,

                                  All I get when I try to play MBB.avi in Windoze Media Mangler/Player
                                  video-wise is a psychedelic clip that looks like something you'd see
                                  in Apple iTuneZ when it's playing something not-too-wild, and I'm not
                                  hearing any sound (but I'm working on a new computer that may not be
                                  quite configured correctly, at the moment, especially since I was
                                  trying to get voice chat working on it last night).

                                  All Z BeZt,
                                  Jim

                                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Brandon" <Jeremy.Brandon@t...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > It's not switching, but if you want to see the control possible with
                                  > the DeLuxe, take a look at this video, courtesy of Jens Wimmel who
                                  > recorded it from German television:
                                  >
                                  > http://home.datacomm.ch/zettsiite/MBB.avi







                                  -Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!

                                  Yahoo! Groups Links














                                  -Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!



                                  Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


                                  ---------------------------------
                                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                                  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale/

                                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  z_scale-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




                                  ---------------------------------
                                  Do you Yahoo!?
                                  All your favorites on one personal page � Try My Yahoo!

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • pray59_2
                                  ... H Ted, download the open source ffdshow codec pack for your system here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffdshow Then you can view DivX content with your
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    ted_lamar wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I am hearing the German dialogue (and little Z motors) - but not seeing
                                    > anything.
                                    >
                                    > Ted LaMar


                                    H Ted, download the open source ffdshow codec pack for your system here:

                                    http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffdshow

                                    Then you can view DivX content with your audio.

                                    -Robert
                                  • Bill Hoshiko
                                    ... layouts. The rate of change of speed is very quick so it is easy to control the locos, but it is impossible to jerk the train and accidently uncouple what
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Dec 30, 2004
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      "Jeremy Brandon" <Jeremy.Brandon@t...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I would like to answer this comment! The DeLuxe has gradual
                                      > acceleration and braking just so it CAN be used on switching
                                      layouts. The rate of change of speed is very quick so it is easy to
                                      control the locos, but it is impossible to jerk the train and
                                      accidently uncouple what you have just painstakingly coupled together.
                                      Manfred Joerger and I do a lot of switching with the DeLuxe and
                                      wouldn't use anything else!
                                      >
                                      It's not switching, but if you want to see the control possible with
                                      the DeLuxe, take a look at this video, courtesy of Jens Wimmel who
                                      recorded it from German television:
                                      >
                                      > http://home.datacomm.ch/zettsiite/MBB.avi
                                      >
                                      > Jeremy.


                                      Sorry, Jeremy,

                                      I am an old timer and I can remember all the hoopla about momentum,
                                      electronic flywheels, and all that from years ago. I can remember how
                                      proud on operator was that it took more than five minutes to get a
                                      train going because they had to pump up the brakes and some other such
                                      thing. Of course there was the sound of the diesel engine generating
                                      electricity so that the compressors could compress and refill all the
                                      trains brake systems untill the the brakes are released.

                                      This "feedback" thing is new to me and I have never operated one. My
                                      understanding was that the feedback feature allowed a train to
                                      maintain a constant speed whether it is climbing a grade or descending
                                      a grade. Am I wrong? When ever I read something about feedback that
                                      feature was always emphasized.

                                      How does slow to start and slow to stop help when spotting cars in
                                      industrial sidings? Freight cars must be spotted so that the car
                                      doors are directly opposite the doors of warehouses. This is very
                                      difficult to achieve if you have gradual braking.

                                      I am not trying to criticize, I want to learn. I cannot spend money
                                      just to test various controllers. I can just use my MRC with a long
                                      extension cord.

                                      We have just been treated with several different programs for viewing
                                      your videos but I have downloaded much too many programs only to have
                                      them dissapear somewhere inside the electronics of my computer never
                                      to reappear. If it connot be viewed by RealTime or Microsoft than I
                                      will never view it.

                                      During my lifetime there were many things that I was never able to see
                                      and many things that I have seen were not worth the effort. Some of
                                      the things that were not worth the effort was the Grand Canyon on a
                                      hazy day (when ever is the canyon not hazy?) and the Mona Lisa display
                                      in the Louvre museum. Of course it could be that I am truly an
                                      uncouth sloth.

                                      Perhaps some of the others who are currently using the DeLux power can
                                      report on their use during slow speed switching. While using the
                                      DeLux can you couple a single car without causing it to move.

                                      If you can do this, please tell me what type of coupler allows you to
                                      do this. Or, how have you adapted the MT coupler? Sometime back I
                                      received the suggestion to use only the hook portion of the MT and a
                                      gentle coupling could be achieved. I haven't tried it yet so I don't
                                      know if it is true or not.

                                      Not trying to start a war, just want to build a layout to my
                                      requirements. There are many things that I cannot change for I am not
                                      talented, but those things that can be adapted, I want to use. Often,
                                      the only way things get clarified is by making bold and stupid
                                      statements. When I am corrected I learn.

                                      I am still unclear about the use of your DeLux controller on a true
                                      switching (shunting) layout as found in the UK. Not a controller
                                      being used for switching the yards on a continuous run layout.

                                      Bill
                                      El Toro, Ca
                                    • Jeremy Brandon
                                      ... I started running model trains 55 years ago. ... Feedback does that of course, to some extent. But that is not why the DeLuxe uses feedback. Feedback
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Dec 31, 2004
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Hoshiko" <billhko@y...> wrote:
                                        > I am an old timer ...

                                        I started running model trains 55 years ago.


                                        > This "feedback" thing is new to me and I have never operated one.
                                        > My understanding was that the feedback feature allowed a train to
                                        > maintain a constant speed whether it is climbing a grade or
                                        > descending a grade.

                                        Feedback does that of course, to some extent. But that is not why the
                                        DeLuxe uses feedback. Feedback allows the controlling computer to see
                                        the effect of every pulse and to adjust the time and width of the next
                                        pulse to maintain the actual speed of the loco to exactly what you
                                        want it to be. This is particularly important when accelerating or
                                        braking. All but the very best motors with the very best gear drives
                                        will not run smoothly at all speeds when given a constant steady
                                        voltage or repetitive identical pulses. By using feedback it is
                                        possible to keep that little commutator turning steadily at any speed.


                                        > How does slow to start and slow to stop help when spotting cars in
                                        > industrial sidings? Freight cars must be spotted so that the car
                                        > doors are directly opposite the doors of warehouses. This is very
                                        > difficult to achieve if you have gradual braking.

                                        It helps by keeping the loco running smoothly, even if you turn the
                                        speed control too much. And braking acts much faster than acceleration
                                        - from full speed to stop in about 4 inches. I don't expect you plan
                                        to do your switching at anything other than a prototypical crawl - you
                                        would not even notice the gradual braking.

                                        I use Mäerklin couplers. With the DeLuxe I can creep any one of my
                                        locos back onto the wagons, stop it when the couplers are just
                                        touching, then crawl it back until the couplers join and stop it
                                        without moving the wagons, set reverse, and slowly accelerate away.
                                        Even if I am rough with the speed control I cannot make the train jerk.


                                        > I am not trying to criticize, I want to learn. I cannot spend money
                                        > just to test various controllers. I can just use my MRC with a long
                                        > extension cord.

                                        If the MRC gives you the performance you want, then why change. Can it
                                        do what I have just described is possible with the DeLuxe?


                                        > We have just been treated with several different programs for
                                        > viewing your videos but I have downloaded much too many programs
                                        > only to have them dissapear somewhere inside the electronics of my
                                        > computer never to reappear. If it connot be viewed by RealTime or
                                        > Microsoft than I will never view it.

                                        Jim Manley posted the link to download the codec to view it (which
                                        works with both of your prefered viewers). I am sorry I had forgotton
                                        that not all viewers automatically fetch the codec they need.


                                        > Perhaps some of the others who are currently using the DeLux power
                                        > can report on their use during slow speed switching.

                                        I hope they will. David George should have somehing to report very soon.


                                        > While using the DeLux can you couple a single car without causing
                                        > it to move.

                                        With Maerklin couplers a single car prefers to move backwards rather
                                        than slide the couplers sideways past each other. That is nothing to
                                        do with the DeLuxe! Try a bit of weight in the cars and it might be
                                        better.


                                        > If you can do this, please tell me what type of coupler allows you
                                        > to do this.

                                        I do not have enough experience of MT couplers to know if they can do
                                        it. Maerklin can do it with a bit more weight in the car.


                                        > Not trying to start a war, just want to build a layout to my
                                        > requirements.

                                        I am sure you would not be disappointed if you used a DeLuxe.


                                        > I am still unclear about the use of your DeLux controller on a true
                                        > switching (shunting) layout as found in the UK. Not a controller
                                        > being used for switching the yards on a continuous run layout.

                                        I do not understand the particular reference to "UK"! I have used the
                                        DeLuxe for switching on a small demonstration track using Manfred
                                        Joerger's modified Maerklin couplers. The control is absolute - the
                                        loco moves exactly when and how you want it to.

                                        I hope that helps. Jeremy.
                                      • Bill Hoshiko
                                        Thanks Jeremy, The word is getting out. Without purchasing a DeLux, I could never discover these attributes that you are describing. Perhaps the description
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Dec 31, 2004
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Thanks Jeremy,

                                          The word is getting out. Without purchasing a DeLux, I could never
                                          discover these attributes that you are describing. Perhaps the
                                          description of your controller in Ztrack could contain words that
                                          describe all that you just wrote. If the advertisement for your
                                          controller does not adequately indicate what it can do, we will never
                                          find out.

                                          Marklin couplers on US trains just totally destroy the illusion. If I
                                          were modeling European trains I would be working toward bringing those
                                          bumpers closer together. Why have bumpers when they couple so far
                                          apart. Sorry.

                                          Bill
                                          El Toro, Ca
                                        • Chris Mears
                                          Hello again, thanks for the input so far. I agree that there are a great number of variations on the continuous run layout theme, and the feedback with layout
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jan 1, 2005
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hello again, thanks for the input so far.

                                            I agree that there are a great number of variations on the continuous
                                            run layout theme, and the feedback with layout design suggestions has
                                            been great too!

                                            Thanks for the feedback on rail size. I don't mind thinking of
                                            something closer to scale for a later project, but now I just want to
                                            get building, and my research tells me that the pile of
                                            MicroEngineering code 55 rail I already have will more than suffice to
                                            produce trackwork that should be directly interchangeable with
                                            Marklin, MT, and so on. What are the wheel flanges like on Marklin,
                                            can they handle the smaller rails (I only have MT trucks and wheelsets
                                            so far).

                                            With regard to operation, what I am curious to, and perhaps the
                                            allusion will have to suffice, but (given optimal conditions), is
                                            switching cars a possibility? What is the slow speed running like? I
                                            have been able to look through many of the videos online featuring Z
                                            layouts, and I am really impressed with the smooth operation over the
                                            main that is acheiveable. Perhaps I need to re-think, and consider a
                                            continuous run myself with options to set out cars?

                                            Happy new year all, thanks for taking the time to contribute to this
                                            list and make it (and the scale too!) so interesting.

                                            Chris Mears
                                            Charlottetown, PEI
                                          • de Champeaux Dominique
                                            ... Bill, it s still the same problem: our beloved small trainZ have to operate on tight radii curves (R= 145 mm for Marklin sectional). That s why AZL locos
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jan 1, 2005
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              > Marklin couplers on US trains just totally destroy
                                              > the illusion. If I
                                              > were modeling European trains I would be working
                                              > toward bringing those
                                              > bumpers closer together. Why have bumpers when they
                                              > couple so far
                                              > apart. Sorry.
                                              >
                                              > Bill
                                              > El Toro, Ca


                                              Bill, it's still the same problem: our beloved small
                                              trainZ have to operate on tight radii curves (R= 145
                                              mm for Marklin sectional). That's why AZL locos have
                                              protruding MTL couplers, and that's why Marklin euro
                                              stuff is "loose" between buffers. And about Marklin,
                                              the design of their couplers implies the location of
                                              trucks on US boxcars and some euro freight cars that
                                              are inwards, more than of prototype. Puting the
                                              couplers more inwards have close buffers between each
                                              car should imply trucks beeing even more towards the
                                              center....So it's still a compromise between accuracy
                                              and operations. The same than about code 55 rails vs
                                              code 40 rails.

                                              Happy new year to all,

                                              Dominique






                                              Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails !
                                              Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.mail.yahoo.com/
                                            • Bill Hoshiko
                                              ... Hi Dominique, Here in the states we have a saying Does the tail wag the Dog? I go into model trains in order to escape from the rigors of a world over
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jan 2, 2005
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Dominique <ddechamp71@y...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Bill, it's still the same problem: our beloved small
                                                > trainZ have to operate on tight radii curves (R= 145
                                                > mm for Marklin sectional).

                                                > Dominique
                                                >

                                                Hi Dominique,

                                                Here in the states we have a saying "Does the tail wag the Dog?"

                                                I go into model trains in order to escape from the rigors of a world
                                                over which I have little control. It gives me a sense of freedom to
                                                work with my trains while I still have to follow some unbendable rules.

                                                The rules are that the train operates on two rails separated at a
                                                specific distance and they are powered and controlled by electricity
                                                that is delivered through the rails. Other rules are that these
                                                trains should appear as realistic to the eyes as possible. Much of
                                                the realism is limited by my ability to shape and paint wood, plastic,
                                                metal and a few other items into realistic looking forms and I must
                                                include an electrical mechanism that advances the train down the track.

                                                I can also purchase items on the open market. Of the products that I
                                                purchase I may have to modify them so that they would better fit my
                                                own ideas of a realistic look.

                                                One of my first concerns with the look of scale trains is the space
                                                between each car in a train. Trains in the US prior to the 1960s had
                                                a distance close enough for a brakeman to walk the entire length of a
                                                train while the train is in motion. This is something that I have
                                                seen in films since I was a little child. The first thing to do is to
                                                shorten the couplers so that the distance between the cars are close
                                                to 30 scale inches. The next is to find the minimum radius that these
                                                coupled cars can traverse without derailing.

                                                If you operate diesels with 6 coupled drive wheels or steam engines
                                                with long wheel bases or cabs that extend quite far from the last
                                                drive wheel you may need even larger radius curves. The radius of the
                                                curves is determined by the appearance of your train traveling on the
                                                curve and not the ability of the train to stay on the track while
                                                going around it.

                                                If I tell myself that I cannot lengthen the radius of my curves
                                                because Marklin has R= 145 mm Marklin sectional curved track, then it
                                                is the tail that is wagging the dog and when the tail wags the dog the
                                                train looks more like a toy. Sorry

                                                I did not mean to start the year with a flame. I simply want to have
                                                a more realistic appearing Z scale model train. I personally do not
                                                care if non model railroaders think that my trains are toys but I do
                                                want long time model railroaders to view my trains as comparable to
                                                the best of theirs wheather they model in 1/4 inch scale or in 2mm scale.

                                                Bill
                                                El Toro, Ca
                                              • de Champeaux Dominique
                                                ... Bill, I totally agree with you; myself I chose Z scale as I have now a room that would allow a very nice N scale layout, or even a good HO one, but my
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Jan 2, 2005
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  >
                                                  > Hi Dominique,
                                                  >
                                                  > Here in the states we have a saying "Does the tail
                                                  > wag the Dog?"
                                                  >
                                                  > I go into model trains in order to escape from the
                                                  > rigors of a world
                                                  > over which I have little control. It gives me a
                                                  > sense of freedom to
                                                  > work with my trains while I still have to follow
                                                  > some unbendable rules.
                                                  >
                                                  > The rules are that the train operates on two rails
                                                  > separated at a
                                                  > specific distance and they are powered and
                                                  > controlled by electricity
                                                  > that is delivered through the rails. Other rules
                                                  > are that these
                                                  > trains should appear as realistic to the eyes as
                                                  > possible. Much of
                                                  > the realism is limited by my ability to shape and
                                                  > paint wood, plastic,
                                                  > metal and a few other items into realistic looking
                                                  > forms and I must
                                                  > include an electrical mechanism that advances the
                                                  > train down the track.
                                                  >
                                                  > I can also purchase items on the open market. Of
                                                  > the products that I
                                                  > purchase I may have to modify them so that they
                                                  > would better fit my
                                                  > own ideas of a realistic look.
                                                  >
                                                  > One of my first concerns with the look of scale
                                                  > trains is the space
                                                  > between each car in a train. Trains in the US prior
                                                  > to the 1960s had
                                                  > a distance close enough for a brakeman to walk the
                                                  > entire length of a
                                                  > train while the train is in motion. This is
                                                  > something that I have
                                                  > seen in films since I was a little child. The first
                                                  > thing to do is to
                                                  > shorten the couplers so that the distance between
                                                  > the cars are close
                                                  > to 30 scale inches. The next is to find the minimum
                                                  > radius that these
                                                  > coupled cars can traverse without derailing.
                                                  >
                                                  > If you operate diesels with 6 coupled drive wheels
                                                  > or steam engines
                                                  > with long wheel bases or cabs that extend quite far
                                                  > from the last
                                                  > drive wheel you may need even larger radius curves.
                                                  > The radius of the
                                                  > curves is determined by the appearance of your train
                                                  > traveling on the
                                                  > curve and not the ability of the train to stay on
                                                  > the track while
                                                  > going around it.
                                                  >
                                                  > If I tell myself that I cannot lengthen the radius
                                                  > of my curves
                                                  > because Marklin has R= 145 mm Marklin sectional
                                                  > curved track, then it
                                                  > is the tail that is wagging the dog and when the
                                                  > tail wags the dog the
                                                  > train looks more like a toy. Sorry
                                                  >
                                                  > I did not mean to start the year with a flame. I
                                                  > simply want to have
                                                  > a more realistic appearing Z scale model train. I
                                                  > personally do not
                                                  > care if non model railroaders think that my trains
                                                  > are toys but I do
                                                  > want long time model railroaders to view my trains
                                                  > as comparable to
                                                  > the best of theirs wheather they model in 1/4 inch
                                                  > scale or in 2mm scale.
                                                  >
                                                  > Bill
                                                  > El Toro, Ca


                                                  Bill, I totally agree with you; myself I chose Z scale
                                                  as I have now a room that would allow a very nice N
                                                  scale layout, or even a good HO one, but my first
                                                  specification when back to modelrailroading, was broad
                                                  curves only.

                                                  When I was a kid, I had an HO layout, with very tight
                                                  curves (15" / 36cm), sectional track. And I remembered
                                                  that I already found horrible the sight of passenger
                                                  cars that were overhanging with a very unprototypical
                                                  shape. And because of these tight curves, which were
                                                  only sectional track from my trains' manufacturer
                                                  (Jouef, now disappeared french HO model train
                                                  manufacturer, with emphasis on french prototype), the
                                                  models were built with couplers giving an
                                                  unprototypical distance between rolling stock, with
                                                  buffers (as it was euro stuff) far from themselve.
                                                  Precisely to accomodate tight curves.

                                                  So I believe that at another scale, Marklin encounters
                                                  only the same problems with their Miniclub stuff.

                                                  AZL has also taken account of tight curves with their
                                                  releases.

                                                  Myself, as I have no curves under R=490mm either on my
                                                  diorama and my main in progress layout, I will modify
                                                  my couplers so as to have a fair spacing between my
                                                  locos and cars (changing coupler position on my AZL
                                                  locos, and towbar permanent coupling on my ABBA MTL
                                                  F-units sets).

                                                  I understand that it's easier to have close coupling
                                                  on US stuff than on Euro stuff, with the lack of
                                                  buffers on US stuff.

                                                  But, to summarise, and sorry for having been so long,
                                                  an industrial manufacturer as Marklin has to take
                                                  account of "tight curved users". That's why their
                                                  coupler system doesn't allow close coupling.

                                                  If I was an euro prototype modeller using Miniclub
                                                  stuff, I think one of my goals should be changing
                                                  Marklin couplers, to install MTL couplers and allowing
                                                  close coupling.

                                                  Just my 2 cents.

                                                  Dominique






                                                  Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails !
                                                  Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.mail.yahoo.com/
                                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.