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Re: Joerger DeLuxe Speed Regulator vs. Gaugemaster

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  • jmac_han
    Charles, The Gaugemaster (GM) and the DeLuxe (DL) speed regulator do two entirely different things. The GM simply superimposes a high frequency alternating
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 29, 2004
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      Charles,

      The Gaugemaster (GM) and the DeLuxe (DL) speed regulator do two
      entirely different things. The GM simply superimposes a high
      frequency alternating current (AC) signal to the track (20,000 hertz
      approximately if my memory is correct). It works by ionizing the gap
      between the rail and wheel when the loco hits a dirty section of
      track. Where it would normally stall at this point, the GM helps it
      through the problem spot. Note, the track is not cleaned by the GM
      and dirt will continue to accumulate until the time that the GM can't
      bridge the crud.

      The DL is a sophisticated speed regulator which replaces the speed
      circuitry on your transistorized throttle. It still requires a DPDT
      toggle switch for direction control and a regulated DC (direct
      current) supply, either a battery or a 9v 800milliamp wall
      transformer (recommended). The programming of the DL offers
      acceleration and braking and "feedback" circuitry to overcome the
      deficiencies (i.e. cogging) of wire-wound motors to provide almost
      unbelievable smooth slow speed operation.

      WARNING: These units are not compatible with each other! Using the
      GM or a Relco with the DL simply creates havoc with its feedback
      circuitry and the performace is erratic.

      Conclusion, use the DeLuxe and keep your track clean and you'll get
      terrific operational performance even with three-pole motored locos.
      It will not, however, allow your loco to run over those grimy spots
      on the track. Keep a chamois and rubbing alcohol handy for that. I
      would not add anything to the track such as Wahl Oil or RailZip.

      (Note: I have tried Wahl oil on the VEC and I did not see any
      benefit, actually made things worse for a while. Just my experience.)

      Cheers,
      Jeffrey MacHan


      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "ckuttner" <ckuttner@j...> wrote:
      >
      > Folkz, I really appreciate the suggestions and am interested in the
      > tangent on power supplies...
      > but my original question has yet to be answered.
      >
      > Sure, I do my best to have a really smooth track surface, good rail
      > joints, etc., but let's face it, even HO engines need to be bumped
      > occasionally to regain electrical contact with the rail.
      >
      > The Joerger and the Gaugemaster seem to be devices to help maintain
      > the electrical contact. What I don't understand is what the
      > differences are (besides battery vs. mains power) and how to
      choocse.
      >
      > thankz
      >
      > ck
      >
      > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "ckuttner" <ckuttner@j...> wrote:
      >
      > > Forgive my ignorance, but I've looked through a bunch of posts on
      > each of these devices,
      > > and remain a bit confused.
      > >
      > > What I'd like to do is have my loco run smoothly even with minor
      > dips in the rail. Not
      > > needing to run off a battery, I will be hooked into the wall [or
      > mains, for those in Europe].
      > > Momentum is pretty neat, at least in my HO experience, but the
      first
      > requirement is just
      > > good, solid running.
      > >
      > > So how do I choose which of the above to buy? Or are they both
      > pretty equivalent?
      > >
      > > thankz in advance
      > >
      > > chaz
      > >
      > > Charles Kuttner, MD
      > > Portland, OR
      > > http://cmug.com/~ckuttner/
      > >
      > > Otherwise known as:
      > > Col. Cornelius Kuttner
      > > Proprietor, psychopathist and microferroequinologist, Oakville &
      > Poorfarm RR
    • zbendtrack@aol.com
      ... Gee. How much did you use? One drop per layout (er, suitcase) applied with your index finger is the limit! Bill K. Houston [Non-text portions of this
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 29, 2004
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        Jeffrey:

        > (Note: I have tried Wahl oil on the VEC and I did not see any
        > benefit, actually made things worse for a while. Just my experience.)

        Gee. How much did you use? One drop per layout (er, suitcase) applied with
        your index finger is the limit!

        Bill K.
        Houston


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jmac_han
        I knew my unsollicited Wahl comment would generate a response from you, Bill. I d like to be able to say that I poured the bottle onto the rails or maybe used
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 29, 2004
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          I knew my unsollicited Wahl comment would generate a response from
          you, Bill. I'd like to be able to say that I poured the bottle onto
          the rails or maybe used the wrong finger but "one drop on the index
          finger" was my method of application. It seems to me that it is
          important to report the results of the Wahl test as observed.

          I suspect that the oil actually disolved grime that had adhered to
          the plastic wheels of my MTL rolling stock and metal wheels of my
          Marklin passenger cars. The locos then picked up the newly released
          crud and performance suffered. It took about 3 wheel cleanings with
          the Speedi-driver and a complete wipe-down of the trackage with a
          Joerger cleaning wand to remove the oil mixed with the deposit.

          As I said, it made things worse "for a while" and following the
          cleanup, performance was no better than before I applied the Wahl
          oil. If my hypothesis is correct, the wheels of my rolling stock
          may be cleaner following the Wahl oil application but my locos had
          already reached their peak performance thanks to Chenier wheel-
          wipers and the use of Relco HF units.

          So, my experience applying Wahl oil actually forced me to do a major
          track cleaning job and to spend a few minutes tuning any locos that
          had run through the stuff. My conclusion following this single
          experiment was that the little 'dab' was more trouble than it was
          worth on the VEC. (Also, I shouldn't have done my little test in
          the middle of a train show...very embarassing!)

          Note: This summer I tried the oil on my outdoor garden layout, also
          using the "one drop on the index finger" technique. It appeared to
          improve conductivity but greatly reduced the traction of my 0-4-0
          locos. They could no longer pull the same number of cars that they
          normally handled. I plan to use Wahl oil on the "Gardenvale Short
          Line" to condition the track. Next Spring I'll apply it to the
          friction pads of my track cleaning gondola and push it around the
          entire layout with a couple of locos then wipe the track down with a
          chamois to remove any residue that had been softened up by the oil.

          So in my case, Wahl really is for "Gee" not "Zee".

          Cheers,
          Jeffrey

          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, zbendtrack@a... wrote:
          > Jeffrey:
          >
          > Gee. How much did you use? One drop per layout (er, suitcase)
          applied with
          > your index finger is the limit!
          >
          > Bill K.
          > Houston
        • zbendtrack@aol.com
          ... I would agree with that 100%. Anything that s not plastic or metal *will* come off the wheels, and extra track cleanings would be required, initially.
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 29, 2004
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            Jeffrey:

            > I suspect that the oil actually dissolved grime that had adhered to
            > the plastic wheels of my MTL rolling stock and metal wheels of my
            > Marklin passenger cars.

            I would agree with that 100%. Anything that's not plastic or metal *will*
            come off the wheels, and extra track cleanings would be required, initially.
            Once the rolling stock wheels are free of "junk" that should not be a continuing
            problem.

            Consider the positive: the lighting in your passenger cars won't blink any
            more, once clean. <wink, wink>

            Bill K.
            Houston




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jeff Rothfus
            ... That was exactly my experience ... I ve recently restored a decade-old z-scale layout. It took days of scrubbing to bring all the oxidized track back to
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 31, 2004
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              On 10/30/04 you wrote:

              >I suspect that the oil actually disolved grime that had adhered to
              >the plastic wheels of my MTL rolling stock and metal wheels of my
              >Marklin passenger cars. The locos then picked up the newly released
              >crud and performance suffered. It took about 3 wheel cleanings with
              >the Speedi-driver and a complete wipe-down of the trackage with a
              >Joerger cleaning wand to remove the oil mixed with the deposit.

              That was exactly my experience ...

              I've recently restored a decade-old z-scale layout. It took days of
              scrubbing to bring all the oxidized track back to life.

              Once I got things to a point where my rag was coming back clean, I then
              mustered the temerity to apply a thin film of light machine oil to the
              rails: What I produced was a black slurry which magically appeared on my
              "clean" track.

              Out came the rags again, and after 3 or more cleanings the slurry
              disappeared and performance spiked.

              I think something of what's going on here can also be explained by
              "contact time". Alcohol flashes-off immediately after the rag
              disappears, whereas oil remains in contact with the crud and continues to
              dissolve the really tough stuff for days on end.

              For me, I found oil to be a real labor saver. I absolutely prefer
              mopping-up slurry to scrubbing-down crud.

              When I finally got beyond the "second slurry" stage, things seemed to
              stabilize: Performance improved, and --- we haven't even mentioned an
              important ancillary benefit --- residual oil reduced further oxidation.

              I don't run my trains all that often. When the spirit moves me, the last
              thing I want is to have my spirits dashed by the specter of false starts,
              followed by ten minutes of elbow grease and alcohol.

              Light machine oil (I don't even bother with the Wahl brand <Duck!>) has
              improved my hobby experience. YMMV.

              Cheers,
              jeff
            • Glen Chenier
              ... released ... with ... Same happened when i put dirty rolling stock wheels on track still wet from alcohol. Then the tracks and wheels dried a few minutes
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 2, 2004
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                --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "jmac_han" <jmac_han@y...> wrote:
                > I suspect that the oil actually disolved grime that had adhered to
                > the plastic wheels of my MTL rolling stock and metal wheels of my
                > Marklin passenger cars. The locos then picked up the newly
                released
                > crud and performance suffered. It took about 3 wheel cleanings
                with
                > the Speedi-driver and a complete wipe-down of the trackage with a
                > Joerger cleaning wand to remove the oil mixed with the deposit.

                Same happened when i put dirty rolling stock wheels on track still
                wet from alcohol. Then the tracks and wheels dried a few minutes
                later and were much dirtier than before. Nothing would run.
                Annoying, but fortunately was not during a train show.

                The only time i ever saw Wahl Oil cause traction loss was on N scale
                locos with rubber tires. The oil does make the rubber lose it's grip
                on the rail. For metal wheel to metal rail is not a problem.

                Wahl oil does float the crud. It does not eliminate the crud
                accumulation, but does make it much easier to deal with. It
                certainly is a good way to clean rolling stock wheels en masse as
                long as one is willing to wipe the tracks a few times during the
                process. Beats cleaning each wheel one at a time. Continuous use of
                fresh, clean Wahl oil on cleaned rails prevents dirt from
                accumulating on the rolling stock wheels.

                With just a little crud on the rails the Wahl oil seems to allow the
                locomotive to tolerate it by squishing the floating crud aside as it
                rolls. Makes the tracks appear to stay clean longer. Eventually the
                dirt builds up to the point where a wipedown becomes necessary. At
                this time a gentle alcohol rag wipe is all that is needed. No
                scrubbing necessary. Then another drop of fresh Wahl oil to keep the
                next week's (or month's) crud accumulation under control and
                removeable. The time for a quick wipedown is when locomotives begin
                to stall again.

                I've used Wahl oil ever since Bill suggested it. Found it to be very
                useful both in prolonging times between cleanings, keeping rolling
                stock wheels themselves clean, making locomotive wheels very easy to
                clean manually, and turning the regular track cleanings from a
                drudgerous scrubbing chore to a simple alcohol rag wiping.

                Sounds like an interesting poll subject. Will set one up in a bit.
              • Tom Fisher
                Rags? Chamois (real or synthetic)? What s best for not leaving lint or residue when wiping off track? ... [snip] ...
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 2, 2004
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                  Rags? Chamois (real or synthetic)? What's best for
                  not leaving lint or residue when wiping off track?

                  --- Glen Chenier <chenierfam@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "jmac_han"
                  > <jmac_han@y...> wrote:
                  [snip]

                  > alcohol rag wiping.



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                • Glen Chenier
                  ... A lint-free cloth? :) Chamois, cotton, old sock - any smooth-surface soft cloth that is not fuzzy. Preferably without that fabric softener stuff in it;
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 2, 2004
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                    --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Tom Fisher <tfisher10@y...> wrote:
                    > Rags? Chamois (real or synthetic)? What's best for
                    > not leaving lint or residue when wiping off track?

                    A lint-free cloth? :) Chamois, cotton, old sock - any smooth-surface
                    soft cloth that is not fuzzy. Preferably without that fabric softener
                    stuff in it; haven't noted any problem from this but better to avoid
                    it if possible. You won't need to press hard enough to leave lint.
                    Paper towels not recommended, they catch and tear, but will do in a
                    pinch if nothing else available.

                    It's always good to regularly vacuum the tracks too. Cloth lint is
                    minor compared to some of the dust bunnies and spider webs that can
                    collect, especially on little-used sidings.
                  • Glen Chenier
                    ... The idea is to use any absorbent material to soak up both the oil and the suspended liquified dirt with one swipe without scrubbing. One material that
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 2, 2004
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                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Tom Fisher <tfisher10@y...> wrote:
                      > Rags?

                      The idea is to use any absorbent material to soak up both the oil and
                      the suspended liquified dirt with one swipe without scrubbing. One
                      material that DOES leave lint behind is Handi-Wipes (aka J-cloth).
                      While this stuff is great when cut into strips and wrapped around the
                      roller of a N scale Centerline Products track cleaning car (fitted
                      with Z scale trucks), it does leave behind big clumps of fuzz at rail
                      joints and turnout frogs and points when swiped rather than rolled.
                      Most smooth surface cloth will absorb the dirty oil without leaving
                      fibres behind.
                    • zbendtrack@aol.com
                      ... 1. Old cotton T shirts cut up 2. Coffee filters Regards, Bill K. Houston [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 2, 2004
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                        tfisher10:

                        > Rags? Chamois (real or synthetic)? What's best for
                        > not leaving lint or residue when wiping off track?
                        >

                        1. Old cotton "T" shirts cut up
                        2. Coffee filters

                        Regards,
                        Bill K.
                        Houston


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Bill Powers
                        Tom, Real Chamois. Kind of pricey but you get so much that lasts a long time. Works with alcohol or goo-gone etc. ... From: Tom Fisher To:
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 3, 2004
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                          Tom, Real Chamois. Kind of pricey but you get so much that lasts a long time. Works with alcohol or goo-gone etc.
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Tom Fisher
                          To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 6:09 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Wahl Oil - was Joerger DeLuxe Speed Regulator vs. Gaugemaster


                          Rags? Chamois (real or synthetic)? What's best for
                          not leaving lint or residue when wiping off track?

                          --- Glen Chenier <chenierfam@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "jmac_han"
                          > <jmac_han@y...> wrote:
                          [snip]

                          > alcohol rag wiping.



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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Mark Fielder
                          ... Is there anything special about Wahl Oil (spell checker has just suggested Whale Oil!) or is it just a light machine oil? Mark.
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 3, 2004
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                            >I've used Wahl oil ever since Bill suggested it. Found it to be very
                            >useful both in prolonging times between cleanings, keeping rolling
                            >stock wheels themselves clean, making locomotive wheels very easy to
                            >clean manually, and turning the regular track cleanings from a
                            >drudgerous scrubbing chore to a simple alcohol rag wiping.
                            >
                            >Sounds like an interesting poll subject. Will set one up in a bit.
                            >

                            Is there anything special about Wahl Oil (spell checker has just suggested
                            Whale Oil!) or is it just a light machine oil?

                            Mark.
                          • Uwe Liermann
                            Hello Mark, ... I use the stuff that came with my beard clipper for the scissors... -- GreetingZ Uwe
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 3, 2004
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                              Hello Mark,

                              > Is there anything special about Wahl Oil (spell checker has just suggested
                              > Whale Oil!) or is it just a light machine oil?

                              I use the stuff that came with my beard clipper for the scissors...

                              --
                              GreetingZ
                              Uwe
                            • Bill Hoshiko
                              ... suggested ... Hi Mark, Wahl Oil is a lubricant sold by Wahl a company that manufactures clippers for giving hair cuts. The Wahl company seems to be a
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                "Mark Fielder" <markfielder@m...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Is there anything special about Wahl Oil (spell checker has just
                                suggested
                                > Whale Oil!) or is it just a light machine oil?
                                >
                                > Mark.

                                Hi Mark,

                                Wahl Oil is a lubricant sold by Wahl a company that manufactures
                                clippers for giving hair cuts. The Wahl company seems to be a major
                                supplier of hair clippers to professional hair emporiums. Check with
                                your Barber the next time you have your hair trimmed.

                                It think that it is available on both sides of the Atlantic.

                                Bill
                                El Toro, Ca
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