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Re: Joerger DeLuxe Speed Regulator vs. Gaugemaster

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  • ckuttner
    Folkz, I really appreciate the suggestions and am interested in the tangent on power supplies... but my original question has yet to be answered. Sure, I do my
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 29, 2004
      Folkz, I really appreciate the suggestions and am interested in the
      tangent on power supplies...
      but my original question has yet to be answered.

      Sure, I do my best to have a really smooth track surface, good rail
      joints, etc., but let's face it, even HO engines need to be bumped
      occasionally to regain electrical contact with the rail.

      The Joerger and the Gaugemaster seem to be devices to help maintain
      the electrical contact. What I don't understand is what the
      differences are (besides battery vs. mains power) and how to choocse.

      thankz

      ck

      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "ckuttner" <ckuttner@j...> wrote:

      > Forgive my ignorance, but I've looked through a bunch of posts on
      each of these devices,
      > and remain a bit confused.
      >
      > What I'd like to do is have my loco run smoothly even with minor
      dips in the rail. Not
      > needing to run off a battery, I will be hooked into the wall [or
      mains, for those in Europe].
      > Momentum is pretty neat, at least in my HO experience, but the first
      requirement is just
      > good, solid running.
      >
      > So how do I choose which of the above to buy? Or are they both
      pretty equivalent?
      >
      > thankz in advance
      >
      > chaz
      >
      > Charles Kuttner, MD
      > Portland, OR
      > http://cmug.com/~ckuttner/
      >
      > Otherwise known as:
      > Col. Cornelius Kuttner
      > Proprietor, psychopathist and microferroequinologist, Oakville &
      Poorfarm RR
    • jmac_han
      Charles, The Gaugemaster (GM) and the DeLuxe (DL) speed regulator do two entirely different things. The GM simply superimposes a high frequency alternating
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 29, 2004
        Charles,

        The Gaugemaster (GM) and the DeLuxe (DL) speed regulator do two
        entirely different things. The GM simply superimposes a high
        frequency alternating current (AC) signal to the track (20,000 hertz
        approximately if my memory is correct). It works by ionizing the gap
        between the rail and wheel when the loco hits a dirty section of
        track. Where it would normally stall at this point, the GM helps it
        through the problem spot. Note, the track is not cleaned by the GM
        and dirt will continue to accumulate until the time that the GM can't
        bridge the crud.

        The DL is a sophisticated speed regulator which replaces the speed
        circuitry on your transistorized throttle. It still requires a DPDT
        toggle switch for direction control and a regulated DC (direct
        current) supply, either a battery or a 9v 800milliamp wall
        transformer (recommended). The programming of the DL offers
        acceleration and braking and "feedback" circuitry to overcome the
        deficiencies (i.e. cogging) of wire-wound motors to provide almost
        unbelievable smooth slow speed operation.

        WARNING: These units are not compatible with each other! Using the
        GM or a Relco with the DL simply creates havoc with its feedback
        circuitry and the performace is erratic.

        Conclusion, use the DeLuxe and keep your track clean and you'll get
        terrific operational performance even with three-pole motored locos.
        It will not, however, allow your loco to run over those grimy spots
        on the track. Keep a chamois and rubbing alcohol handy for that. I
        would not add anything to the track such as Wahl Oil or RailZip.

        (Note: I have tried Wahl oil on the VEC and I did not see any
        benefit, actually made things worse for a while. Just my experience.)

        Cheers,
        Jeffrey MacHan


        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "ckuttner" <ckuttner@j...> wrote:
        >
        > Folkz, I really appreciate the suggestions and am interested in the
        > tangent on power supplies...
        > but my original question has yet to be answered.
        >
        > Sure, I do my best to have a really smooth track surface, good rail
        > joints, etc., but let's face it, even HO engines need to be bumped
        > occasionally to regain electrical contact with the rail.
        >
        > The Joerger and the Gaugemaster seem to be devices to help maintain
        > the electrical contact. What I don't understand is what the
        > differences are (besides battery vs. mains power) and how to
        choocse.
        >
        > thankz
        >
        > ck
        >
        > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "ckuttner" <ckuttner@j...> wrote:
        >
        > > Forgive my ignorance, but I've looked through a bunch of posts on
        > each of these devices,
        > > and remain a bit confused.
        > >
        > > What I'd like to do is have my loco run smoothly even with minor
        > dips in the rail. Not
        > > needing to run off a battery, I will be hooked into the wall [or
        > mains, for those in Europe].
        > > Momentum is pretty neat, at least in my HO experience, but the
        first
        > requirement is just
        > > good, solid running.
        > >
        > > So how do I choose which of the above to buy? Or are they both
        > pretty equivalent?
        > >
        > > thankz in advance
        > >
        > > chaz
        > >
        > > Charles Kuttner, MD
        > > Portland, OR
        > > http://cmug.com/~ckuttner/
        > >
        > > Otherwise known as:
        > > Col. Cornelius Kuttner
        > > Proprietor, psychopathist and microferroequinologist, Oakville &
        > Poorfarm RR
      • zbendtrack@aol.com
        ... Gee. How much did you use? One drop per layout (er, suitcase) applied with your index finger is the limit! Bill K. Houston [Non-text portions of this
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 29, 2004
          Jeffrey:

          > (Note: I have tried Wahl oil on the VEC and I did not see any
          > benefit, actually made things worse for a while. Just my experience.)

          Gee. How much did you use? One drop per layout (er, suitcase) applied with
          your index finger is the limit!

          Bill K.
          Houston


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • jmac_han
          I knew my unsollicited Wahl comment would generate a response from you, Bill. I d like to be able to say that I poured the bottle onto the rails or maybe used
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 29, 2004
            I knew my unsollicited Wahl comment would generate a response from
            you, Bill. I'd like to be able to say that I poured the bottle onto
            the rails or maybe used the wrong finger but "one drop on the index
            finger" was my method of application. It seems to me that it is
            important to report the results of the Wahl test as observed.

            I suspect that the oil actually disolved grime that had adhered to
            the plastic wheels of my MTL rolling stock and metal wheels of my
            Marklin passenger cars. The locos then picked up the newly released
            crud and performance suffered. It took about 3 wheel cleanings with
            the Speedi-driver and a complete wipe-down of the trackage with a
            Joerger cleaning wand to remove the oil mixed with the deposit.

            As I said, it made things worse "for a while" and following the
            cleanup, performance was no better than before I applied the Wahl
            oil. If my hypothesis is correct, the wheels of my rolling stock
            may be cleaner following the Wahl oil application but my locos had
            already reached their peak performance thanks to Chenier wheel-
            wipers and the use of Relco HF units.

            So, my experience applying Wahl oil actually forced me to do a major
            track cleaning job and to spend a few minutes tuning any locos that
            had run through the stuff. My conclusion following this single
            experiment was that the little 'dab' was more trouble than it was
            worth on the VEC. (Also, I shouldn't have done my little test in
            the middle of a train show...very embarassing!)

            Note: This summer I tried the oil on my outdoor garden layout, also
            using the "one drop on the index finger" technique. It appeared to
            improve conductivity but greatly reduced the traction of my 0-4-0
            locos. They could no longer pull the same number of cars that they
            normally handled. I plan to use Wahl oil on the "Gardenvale Short
            Line" to condition the track. Next Spring I'll apply it to the
            friction pads of my track cleaning gondola and push it around the
            entire layout with a couple of locos then wipe the track down with a
            chamois to remove any residue that had been softened up by the oil.

            So in my case, Wahl really is for "Gee" not "Zee".

            Cheers,
            Jeffrey

            --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, zbendtrack@a... wrote:
            > Jeffrey:
            >
            > Gee. How much did you use? One drop per layout (er, suitcase)
            applied with
            > your index finger is the limit!
            >
            > Bill K.
            > Houston
          • zbendtrack@aol.com
            ... I would agree with that 100%. Anything that s not plastic or metal *will* come off the wheels, and extra track cleanings would be required, initially.
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 29, 2004
              Jeffrey:

              > I suspect that the oil actually dissolved grime that had adhered to
              > the plastic wheels of my MTL rolling stock and metal wheels of my
              > Marklin passenger cars.

              I would agree with that 100%. Anything that's not plastic or metal *will*
              come off the wheels, and extra track cleanings would be required, initially.
              Once the rolling stock wheels are free of "junk" that should not be a continuing
              problem.

              Consider the positive: the lighting in your passenger cars won't blink any
              more, once clean. <wink, wink>

              Bill K.
              Houston




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jeff Rothfus
              ... That was exactly my experience ... I ve recently restored a decade-old z-scale layout. It took days of scrubbing to bring all the oxidized track back to
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 31, 2004
                On 10/30/04 you wrote:

                >I suspect that the oil actually disolved grime that had adhered to
                >the plastic wheels of my MTL rolling stock and metal wheels of my
                >Marklin passenger cars. The locos then picked up the newly released
                >crud and performance suffered. It took about 3 wheel cleanings with
                >the Speedi-driver and a complete wipe-down of the trackage with a
                >Joerger cleaning wand to remove the oil mixed with the deposit.

                That was exactly my experience ...

                I've recently restored a decade-old z-scale layout. It took days of
                scrubbing to bring all the oxidized track back to life.

                Once I got things to a point where my rag was coming back clean, I then
                mustered the temerity to apply a thin film of light machine oil to the
                rails: What I produced was a black slurry which magically appeared on my
                "clean" track.

                Out came the rags again, and after 3 or more cleanings the slurry
                disappeared and performance spiked.

                I think something of what's going on here can also be explained by
                "contact time". Alcohol flashes-off immediately after the rag
                disappears, whereas oil remains in contact with the crud and continues to
                dissolve the really tough stuff for days on end.

                For me, I found oil to be a real labor saver. I absolutely prefer
                mopping-up slurry to scrubbing-down crud.

                When I finally got beyond the "second slurry" stage, things seemed to
                stabilize: Performance improved, and --- we haven't even mentioned an
                important ancillary benefit --- residual oil reduced further oxidation.

                I don't run my trains all that often. When the spirit moves me, the last
                thing I want is to have my spirits dashed by the specter of false starts,
                followed by ten minutes of elbow grease and alcohol.

                Light machine oil (I don't even bother with the Wahl brand <Duck!>) has
                improved my hobby experience. YMMV.

                Cheers,
                jeff
              • Glen Chenier
                ... released ... with ... Same happened when i put dirty rolling stock wheels on track still wet from alcohol. Then the tracks and wheels dried a few minutes
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 2, 2004
                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "jmac_han" <jmac_han@y...> wrote:
                  > I suspect that the oil actually disolved grime that had adhered to
                  > the plastic wheels of my MTL rolling stock and metal wheels of my
                  > Marklin passenger cars. The locos then picked up the newly
                  released
                  > crud and performance suffered. It took about 3 wheel cleanings
                  with
                  > the Speedi-driver and a complete wipe-down of the trackage with a
                  > Joerger cleaning wand to remove the oil mixed with the deposit.

                  Same happened when i put dirty rolling stock wheels on track still
                  wet from alcohol. Then the tracks and wheels dried a few minutes
                  later and were much dirtier than before. Nothing would run.
                  Annoying, but fortunately was not during a train show.

                  The only time i ever saw Wahl Oil cause traction loss was on N scale
                  locos with rubber tires. The oil does make the rubber lose it's grip
                  on the rail. For metal wheel to metal rail is not a problem.

                  Wahl oil does float the crud. It does not eliminate the crud
                  accumulation, but does make it much easier to deal with. It
                  certainly is a good way to clean rolling stock wheels en masse as
                  long as one is willing to wipe the tracks a few times during the
                  process. Beats cleaning each wheel one at a time. Continuous use of
                  fresh, clean Wahl oil on cleaned rails prevents dirt from
                  accumulating on the rolling stock wheels.

                  With just a little crud on the rails the Wahl oil seems to allow the
                  locomotive to tolerate it by squishing the floating crud aside as it
                  rolls. Makes the tracks appear to stay clean longer. Eventually the
                  dirt builds up to the point where a wipedown becomes necessary. At
                  this time a gentle alcohol rag wipe is all that is needed. No
                  scrubbing necessary. Then another drop of fresh Wahl oil to keep the
                  next week's (or month's) crud accumulation under control and
                  removeable. The time for a quick wipedown is when locomotives begin
                  to stall again.

                  I've used Wahl oil ever since Bill suggested it. Found it to be very
                  useful both in prolonging times between cleanings, keeping rolling
                  stock wheels themselves clean, making locomotive wheels very easy to
                  clean manually, and turning the regular track cleanings from a
                  drudgerous scrubbing chore to a simple alcohol rag wiping.

                  Sounds like an interesting poll subject. Will set one up in a bit.
                • Tom Fisher
                  Rags? Chamois (real or synthetic)? What s best for not leaving lint or residue when wiping off track? ... [snip] ...
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 2, 2004
                    Rags? Chamois (real or synthetic)? What's best for
                    not leaving lint or residue when wiping off track?

                    --- Glen Chenier <chenierfam@...> wrote:

                    >
                    > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "jmac_han"
                    > <jmac_han@y...> wrote:
                    [snip]

                    > alcohol rag wiping.



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                  • Glen Chenier
                    ... A lint-free cloth? :) Chamois, cotton, old sock - any smooth-surface soft cloth that is not fuzzy. Preferably without that fabric softener stuff in it;
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 2, 2004
                      --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Tom Fisher <tfisher10@y...> wrote:
                      > Rags? Chamois (real or synthetic)? What's best for
                      > not leaving lint or residue when wiping off track?

                      A lint-free cloth? :) Chamois, cotton, old sock - any smooth-surface
                      soft cloth that is not fuzzy. Preferably without that fabric softener
                      stuff in it; haven't noted any problem from this but better to avoid
                      it if possible. You won't need to press hard enough to leave lint.
                      Paper towels not recommended, they catch and tear, but will do in a
                      pinch if nothing else available.

                      It's always good to regularly vacuum the tracks too. Cloth lint is
                      minor compared to some of the dust bunnies and spider webs that can
                      collect, especially on little-used sidings.
                    • Glen Chenier
                      ... The idea is to use any absorbent material to soak up both the oil and the suspended liquified dirt with one swipe without scrubbing. One material that
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 2, 2004
                        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Tom Fisher <tfisher10@y...> wrote:
                        > Rags?

                        The idea is to use any absorbent material to soak up both the oil and
                        the suspended liquified dirt with one swipe without scrubbing. One
                        material that DOES leave lint behind is Handi-Wipes (aka J-cloth).
                        While this stuff is great when cut into strips and wrapped around the
                        roller of a N scale Centerline Products track cleaning car (fitted
                        with Z scale trucks), it does leave behind big clumps of fuzz at rail
                        joints and turnout frogs and points when swiped rather than rolled.
                        Most smooth surface cloth will absorb the dirty oil without leaving
                        fibres behind.
                      • zbendtrack@aol.com
                        ... 1. Old cotton T shirts cut up 2. Coffee filters Regards, Bill K. Houston [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 2, 2004
                          tfisher10:

                          > Rags? Chamois (real or synthetic)? What's best for
                          > not leaving lint or residue when wiping off track?
                          >

                          1. Old cotton "T" shirts cut up
                          2. Coffee filters

                          Regards,
                          Bill K.
                          Houston


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Bill Powers
                          Tom, Real Chamois. Kind of pricey but you get so much that lasts a long time. Works with alcohol or goo-gone etc. ... From: Tom Fisher To:
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 3, 2004
                            Tom, Real Chamois. Kind of pricey but you get so much that lasts a long time. Works with alcohol or goo-gone etc.
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Tom Fisher
                            To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 6:09 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] Wahl Oil - was Joerger DeLuxe Speed Regulator vs. Gaugemaster


                            Rags? Chamois (real or synthetic)? What's best for
                            not leaving lint or residue when wiping off track?

                            --- Glen Chenier <chenierfam@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "jmac_han"
                            > <jmac_han@y...> wrote:
                            [snip]

                            > alcohol rag wiping.



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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Mark Fielder
                            ... Is there anything special about Wahl Oil (spell checker has just suggested Whale Oil!) or is it just a light machine oil? Mark.
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 3, 2004
                              >I've used Wahl oil ever since Bill suggested it. Found it to be very
                              >useful both in prolonging times between cleanings, keeping rolling
                              >stock wheels themselves clean, making locomotive wheels very easy to
                              >clean manually, and turning the regular track cleanings from a
                              >drudgerous scrubbing chore to a simple alcohol rag wiping.
                              >
                              >Sounds like an interesting poll subject. Will set one up in a bit.
                              >

                              Is there anything special about Wahl Oil (spell checker has just suggested
                              Whale Oil!) or is it just a light machine oil?

                              Mark.
                            • Uwe Liermann
                              Hello Mark, ... I use the stuff that came with my beard clipper for the scissors... -- GreetingZ Uwe
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 3, 2004
                                Hello Mark,

                                > Is there anything special about Wahl Oil (spell checker has just suggested
                                > Whale Oil!) or is it just a light machine oil?

                                I use the stuff that came with my beard clipper for the scissors...

                                --
                                GreetingZ
                                Uwe
                              • Bill Hoshiko
                                ... suggested ... Hi Mark, Wahl Oil is a lubricant sold by Wahl a company that manufactures clippers for giving hair cuts. The Wahl company seems to be a
                                Message 15 of 23 , Nov 3, 2004
                                  "Mark Fielder" <markfielder@m...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Is there anything special about Wahl Oil (spell checker has just
                                  suggested
                                  > Whale Oil!) or is it just a light machine oil?
                                  >
                                  > Mark.

                                  Hi Mark,

                                  Wahl Oil is a lubricant sold by Wahl a company that manufactures
                                  clippers for giving hair cuts. The Wahl company seems to be a major
                                  supplier of hair clippers to professional hair emporiums. Check with
                                  your Barber the next time you have your hair trimmed.

                                  It think that it is available on both sides of the Atlantic.

                                  Bill
                                  El Toro, Ca
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