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automatic reversing

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  • Ronald Duschenchuk
    I am just starting to get involved in model railroading especially in z. I would like to start by building a simple point to point shelf layout that could
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 2, 2001
      I am just starting to get involved in model railroading especially in
      z. I would like to start by building a simple point to point shelf
      layout that could also be used as a testing track for the engines in
      my collection. I would like to have continuous operation back and
      forth. This means that there would have to be some kind of detection
      device at each end of the track that would reverse the polarity to
      cause the engine to reverse direction. I would appreciate any help in
      regards to electrical components needed and any sites I could access
      that would help me in finding these components.

      If any members of this group have built such a layout with automatic
      reversing, please e-mail me or respond to this group.

      Ron Duschenchuk
    • Kim Vellore
      Ron, If you are familiar with electronics, here is something you can do. You can use IR LED s and sensors on both ends of the track and use the output of both
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 2, 2001
        Ron,
        If you are familiar with electronics, here is something you can do.
        You can use IR LED's and sensors on both ends of the track and use the
        output of both the Sensors 'OR'd with a couple of diodes as a clock to
        a toggle flip flop. The output of the toggle flip flop can drive a
        DPDT relay which can reverse the polarity.
        Here is how it works:
        Each time the light is cut by a loco it causes the sensor output say
        to high state. A rising edge as the clock to the toggle flip flop
        changes the output state which changes the state of the relay thus
        making the loco go back.
        There might be other easier ways but I could not think of any for Z.
        Kim

        --- In z_scale@egroups.com, Ronald Duschenchuk <ronpiano@o...> wrote:
        > I am just starting to get involved in model railroading especially
        in
        > z. I would like to start by building a simple point to point shelf
        > layout that could also be used as a testing track for the engines in
        > my collection. I would like to have continuous operation back and
        > forth. This means that there would have to be some kind of
        detection
        > device at each end of the track that would reverse the polarity to
        > cause the engine to reverse direction. I would appreciate any help
        in
        > regards to electrical components needed and any sites I could access
        > that would help me in finding these components.
        >
        > If any members of this group have built such a layout with automatic
        > reversing, please e-mail me or respond to this group.
        >
        > Ron Duschenchuk
      • D. A. Karp
        You could do this simply by placing a Marklin 8589 circuit track at each end of your line, and then connect them to the 8947 polarity relay. The nice thing
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 2, 2001
          You could do this simply by placing a Marklin 8589 circuit track at each
          end of your line, and then connect them to the 8947 polarity relay. The
          nice thing about the 8589 circuit track is that it can trigger the relay in
          one direction, but not the other, which would be helpful for your
          application. (An optical or magnetic sensor won't do this.)

          Note that this would mean the polarity would be switched without a delay,
          and may damage a locomotive if it were moving at high speed. You could use
          a timer circuit based on the 555 or similar IC to cut the power for a few
          seconds, delaying the locomotive before it starts in the other
          direction. This is a common enough circuit that your local hobby shop will
          probably have it pre-built or in kit form.



          At 08:16 PM 1/2/2001 -0500, you wrote:
          >I am just starting to get involved in model railroading especially in
          >z. I would like to start by building a simple point to point shelf
          >layout that could also be used as a testing track for the engines in
          >my collection. I would like to have continuous operation back and
          >forth. This means that there would have to be some kind of detection
          >device at each end of the track that would reverse the polarity to
          >cause the engine to reverse direction. I would appreciate any help in
          >regards to electrical components needed and any sites I could access
          >that would help me in finding these components.
          >
          >If any members of this group have built such a layout with automatic
          >reversing, please e-mail me or respond to this group.
          >
          >Ron Duschenchuk

          ___________________________________________
          http://www.creativelement.com/z/
        • Jeffrey MacHan
          Hi Ronald, I once built a single mainline layout in N that had an automatic reversing loop on each end. I used Circuitron DT-4 with 4 optical sensors, the
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 2, 2001
            Hi Ronald,

            I once built a single mainline layout in N that had an automatic reversing
            loop on each end. I used Circuitron DT-4 with 4 optical sensors, the AR-2
            autoreverse unit and the CD capacitor discharge unit to power the switch
            machines. It worked great. The components that I have will do the job
            for you but will not slow-stop-reverse-start-accelerate the train as you
            might like.
            The trains did not slow down or stop but ran continuously.

            If this is the kind of setup that you are interested in, let me know 'cuz I
            still have all of the electronics in excellent condition. They are looking
            for a good home.

            Cheers,
            Jeffrey MacHan

            >From: Ronald Duschenchuk <ronpiano@...>
            >Reply-To: z_scale@egroups.com
            >To: z_scale@egroups.com
            >Subject: [z_scale] automatic reversing
            >Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 20:16:15 -0500
            >
            >I am just starting to get involved in model railroading especially in
            >z. I would like to start by building a simple point to point shelf
            >layout that could also be used as a testing track for the engines in
            >my collection. I would like to have continuous operation back and
            >forth. This means that there would have to be some kind of detection
            >device at each end of the track that would reverse the polarity to
            >cause the engine to reverse direction. I would appreciate any help in
            >regards to electrical components needed and any sites I could access
            >that would help me in finding these components.
            >
            >If any members of this group have built such a layout with automatic
            >reversing, please e-mail me or respond to this group.
            >
            >Ron Duschenchuk

            _________________________________________________________________________
            Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
          • Scott A. Whitmire
            ... This is the setup I use on my N scale layout, but I use only two sensors. I placed them just before the exits to the two reversing loops, and triggering
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 2, 2001
              At 1/2/01 07:06 PM, you wrote:
              >Hi Ronald,
              >
              >I once built a single mainline layout in N that had an automatic reversing
              >loop on each end. I used Circuitron DT-4 with 4 optical sensors, the AR-2
              >autoreverse unit and the CD capacitor discharge unit to power the switch
              >machines. It worked great. The components that I have will do the job
              >for you but will not slow-stop-reverse-start-accelerate the train as you
              >might like.
              >The trains did not slow down or stop but ran continuously.

              This is the setup I use on my N scale layout, but I use only two sensors.
              I placed them just before the exits to the two reversing loops, and triggering
              the sensor trips both turnouts and the relay that reverses the mainline
              polarity. I put the sensors as close to the exit points as I could so that
              when I run a train of three locos and 17 cars, I have less than 1/2 of a car
              length between the last truck clearing the turnout and the tripping of the
              turnouts. Make sure that your loop is long enough to hold the longest train
              you want to run.

              I've also noticed that if the train isn't run for a long time, the electronics
              aren't all that reliable for the first few minutes. The problem is the turnout
              firing circuit, which is basically a giant capacitor. It fires two Peco turnout
              machines. The turnout machines don't alway fire. The capacitor always
              discharges. I think the problem is in my turnout machines. But, after they
              warm up, they work like a Swiss watch.

              This is by far the easiest way to wire a pair of reversing loops and a
              reversing main line.


              >Cheers,
              >Jeffrey MacHan

              But, were I to do it over again, I wouldn't do the reversing loops.
              Instead, I'd
              lay a two-track mainline, and just put in loops to move the train from one
              track
              to the other--basically a really strecthed-out oval with the two long sides
              laid
              as a single mainline. Having a train running, and the mainline polarity
              reversing all the time play havoc with any switching maneuvers going on.


              Scott Whitmire
              whitmire@...
            • A H-Ellary
              hey guys how about going dcc then all that auto reversing is taken care of by either a booster or a power management module and yes you can get the decoders in
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 2, 2001
                hey guys

                how about going dcc then all that auto reversing is taken care of by either
                a booster or a power management module

                and yes you can get the decoders in z gauge :)

                A H-Ellary the mad UK Z'er with digitrax Chief + winlok 2.1

                now with added web page www.nccnet.co.uk/ahellary
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Scott A. Whitmire" <whitmire@...>
                To: <z_scale@egroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 4:29 AM
                Subject: Re: [z_scale] automatic reversing


                > At 1/2/01 07:06 PM, you wrote:
                > >Hi Ronald,
                > >
                > >I once built a single mainline layout in N that had an automatic
                reversing
                > >loop on each end. I used Circuitron DT-4 with 4 optical sensors, the
                AR-2
                > >autoreverse unit and the CD capacitor discharge unit to power the switch
                > >machines. It worked great. The components that I have will do the job
                > >for you but will not slow-stop-reverse-start-accelerate the train as you
                > >might like.
                > >The trains did not slow down or stop but ran continuously.
                >
                > This is the setup I use on my N scale layout, but I use only two sensors.
                > I placed them just before the exits to the two reversing loops, and
                triggering
                > the sensor trips both turnouts and the relay that reverses the mainline
                > polarity. I put the sensors as close to the exit points as I could so that
                > when I run a train of three locos and 17 cars, I have less than 1/2 of a
                car
                > length between the last truck clearing the turnout and the tripping of the
                > turnouts. Make sure that your loop is long enough to hold the longest
                train
                > you want to run.
                >
                > I've also noticed that if the train isn't run for a long time, the
                electronics
                > aren't all that reliable for the first few minutes. The problem is the
                turnout
                > firing circuit, which is basically a giant capacitor. It fires two Peco
                turnout
                > machines. The turnout machines don't alway fire. The capacitor always
                > discharges. I think the problem is in my turnout machines. But, after they
                > warm up, they work like a Swiss watch.
                >
                > This is by far the easiest way to wire a pair of reversing loops and a
                > reversing main line.
                >
                >
                > >Cheers,
                > >Jeffrey MacHan
                >
                > But, were I to do it over again, I wouldn't do the reversing loops.
                > Instead, I'd
                > lay a two-track mainline, and just put in loops to move the train from one
                > track
                > to the other--basically a really strecthed-out oval with the two long
                sides
                > laid
                > as a single mainline. Having a train running, and the mainline polarity
                > reversing all the time play havoc with any switching maneuvers going on.
                >
                >
                > Scott Whitmire
                > whitmire@...
                >
                >
                > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!
                >
                >
                >
              • Alex W
                ... either ... Actually, I think that you can use the Digitrax PM-4 Power Management module even if you re not on DCC. It will detect a train passing into an
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 3, 2001
                  > hey guys
                  >
                  > how about going dcc then all that auto reversing is taken care of by
                  either
                  > a booster or a power management module
                  >
                  > and yes you can get the decoders in z gauge :)
                  >
                  > A H-Ellary the mad UK Z'er with digitrax Chief + winlok 2.1
                  >

                  Actually, I think that you can use the Digitrax PM-4 Power Management module
                  even if you're not on DCC. It will detect a train passing into an
                  incorrectly polarized segment of track and automatically reverse it so fast
                  that you frequently can't even tell that it's done anything (unless you're
                  watching the LEDs on the PM-4). I don't think that it will control your
                  switches for you, though. So, either you need switches that will allow you
                  to go the "wrong way" through them, or you'll need a trigger to activate the
                  switches separately.

                  - Alex W.

                  "Trust in God.
                  Believe in yourself.
                  Dare to Dream."
                • ahellary@nccnet.co.uk
                  hi guys i did try a pm4 well 2 actualy and thay did have a delay unlike a booster so i went with a second booster i was not aware of the pm4 working on non dcc
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 3, 2001
                    hi guys

                    i did try a pm4 well 2 actualy and thay did have a delay unlike a
                    booster so i went with a second booster

                    i was not aware of the pm4 working on non dcc but there are other
                    auto reverers like one from loys toys and another that i cant remeber

                    ahelary

                    > > hey guys
                    > >
                    > > how about going dcc then all that auto reversing is taken care of
                    by
                    > either
                    > > a booster or a power management module
                    > >
                    > > and yes you can get the decoders in z gauge :)
                    > >
                    > > A H-Ellary the mad UK Z'er with digitrax Chief + winlok 2.1
                    > >
                    >
                    > Actually, I think that you can use the Digitrax PM-4 Power
                    Management module
                    > even if you're not on DCC. It will detect a train passing into an
                    > incorrectly polarized segment of track and automatically reverse it
                    so fast
                    > that you frequently can't even tell that it's done anything (unless
                    you're
                    > watching the LEDs on the PM-4). I don't think that it will control
                    your
                    > switches for you, though. So, either you need switches that will
                    allow you
                    > to go the "wrong way" through them, or you'll need a trigger to
                    activate the
                    > switches separately.
                    >
                    > - Alex W.
                    >
                    > "Trust in God.
                    > Believe in yourself.
                    > Dare to Dream."
                    >
                    > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!
                    >
                    >
                    >
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