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Re: [z_scale] roadbed

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  • bjkronen@aol.com
    ... Excellent !!! Take pictures of your progress. ... I ll take a shot. Without cork: 1. Does not look prototypical. 2. Track directly on foam is LOUD. You
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 1, 2001
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      Dale:

      > Hello, I am going to start constuction on my layout soon.

      Excellent !!! Take pictures of your progress.

      > I am trying to decide whether ornot to use cork roadbedover
      > I would like to have some opinions pro or con on each procedure

      I'll take a shot.

      Without cork:

      1. Does not look prototypical.
      2. Track directly on foam is LOUD. You may was well run your trains on the
      back of a violin sound chamber.
      3. You may find that you have to use glues that will not dissolve in water,
      if you change your idea on track location, or expansions, later.
      4. Would save a small amount of time to leave out the cork.
      5. An electric foam cutter could be made to simulate the profile of cork
      roadbed, but the top of the roadbed would never be "above grade" compared to
      the rest of the layout.

      With cork:

      1. Looks "right"
      2. Z cork is expensive but looks nice, N scale cord is cheap but has to be
      cut down in width, cutting from sheets of cork is time consuming.
      3. White glue (and other forgiving glues) can hold the track to the cork and
      cork to the foam for water release for repairs and expansions later.
      4. Gives you something to ballast. Ballast without a "roadbed" shape may be
      questionable to the eye (i.e., everything looks like a branch spur, not a
      mainline)
      5. One commonly forgotten aspect of roadbeds is that they always have
      drainage ditches next to the right of way. With roadbed, and a foam base, it
      would take almost nothing to scribe in a ditch next to the roadbed edge.
      Nice touch, I think.

      Life as seen though one set of eyes. Other thoughts out there?

      Regards,
      Bill Kronenberger
      Houston
    • Bill Hoshiko
      ... Bill is right. Go out and look at some full size RR tracks. If you are modeling mainlines go look at mainlines. Same for yards or branch lines. You must
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 1, 2001
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        bjkronen@... wrote:
        >
        > Dale:
        >
        > > Hello, I am going to start constuction on my layout soon.
        >
        > Excellent !!! Take pictures of your progress.
        >
        > >>
        > With cork:
        >
        > 1. Looks "right"
        >
        > 5. One commonly forgotten aspect of roadbeds is that they always have
        > drainage ditches next to the right of way. With roadbed, and a foam
        > base, it would take almost nothing to scribe in a ditch next to the roadbed edge.
        >
        > Life as seen though one set of eyes. Other thoughts out there?
        >
        > Regards,
        > Bill Kronenberger
        > Houston
        >

        Bill is right. Go out and look at some full size RR tracks. If you are
        modeling mainlines go look at mainlines. Same for yards or branch
        lines.

        You must look at both the track and the area adjacent to the tracks.
        You can recognize where the railroad track property ends and the
        neighboring non railroad property begins. Your model track should
        include all of this. You will probably have to compress your model
        because actual RR track including the drainage ditches, cuts and fills
        take a lot of space.

        The problem with model railroaders is that they copy what other modelers
        do and seldom go out and examine what the real RR's do. Take pictures
        of what you see and use them as reference to build your model track.

        If you are contemplating a fairly large Z scale layout you can take
        advantage of your space and build some truly realistic railroad right of
        way.

        The guys who model in the gigantic scales complain the Z scale lacks
        details. For Z scale we can add details that the big clumsies leave
        out.

        And, try not to lay your railroad ties directly on your base board. Use
        some type of road bed. Almost all track is raised above the surrounding
        area because of drainage. If you use a substantial roadbed you can use
        it to start grades. You can use a thinner roadbed to model sidings and
        yards, for they are almost always lower in elevation than the mainline.

        Your base board is the absolute bottom level of your scenery. Rivers or
        lakes may be lower but you must cut those out. Roads, houses and
        buildings should be made on separate baseboards. Imagine if it should
        rain on your layout. Where would all the water go. Would the homes
        and business on your layout be flooded.

        This may sound picky but it will improve the looks of your railroad.
        Maybe YOUR should be capitalzed.


        Bill
        El Toro
      • D. A. Karp
        Here s something I wrote about cork roadbed and ballast that might help: http://www.creativelement.com/z/articles/ballast.html ...
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 1, 2001
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          Here's something I wrote about cork roadbed and ballast that might help:
          http://www.creativelement.com/z/articles/ballast.html



          At 08:33 PM 1/1/2001 -0500, you wrote:
          >Hello, I am going to start constuction on my layout soon. It is going to
          >be 40in by 8 ft. I am planning to use a base of 2inch foam topped by 1/2
          >in. high density foam board using the cookie cutter technique for the
          >elevations. I am trying to decide whether ornot to use cork roadbedover
          >the foam or mount the track directly to the foam.
          >I would like to have some opinions pro or con on each procedure
          >Thanks, Dale

          ___________________________________________
          http://www.creativelement.com/z/
        • Jeffrey MacHan
          ... going to ... by 1/2 ... the ... roadbedover ... Hi Dale, I like both approaches and have used them successfully on the Val Ease Central. I have no
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 2, 2001
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            --- In z_scale@egroups.com, Dale Halterman <dnhalt@m...> wrote:
            > Hello, I am going to start constuction on my layout soon. It is
            going to
            > be 40in by 8 ft. I am planning to use a base of 2inch foam topped
            by 1/2
            > in. high density foam board using the cookie cutter technique for
            the
            > elevations. I am trying to decide whether ornot to use cork
            roadbedover
            > the foam or mount the track directly to the foam.
            > I would like to have some opinions pro or con on each procedure
            > Thanks, Dale

            Hi Dale,

            I like both approaches and have used them successfully on the Val
            Ease Central. I have no particular preference.

            Now, if I were to begin a modest new layout, I would probably use
            cork. However, on a large layout with long runs of mainline, I would
            be tempted to lay the track on the foam and carve landscape features
            (I like to save a few bucks here and there, symbolically of
            course!).

            Everything my associates have contributed to this thread is valid. I
            think the sound deadening argument in favour of cork gives it an edge
            over foam. Another consideration that I just thought of is, if
            someone asked me to build a layout for them, what would I choose?
            Answer: cork, no question!

            Have fun with whatever you choose, or do both and see
            what you prefer.

            Cheers,
            Jeffrey
          • Rev. Charles Hanna
            Has anyone been using AMI Instant Roadbed in Z scale? Getting ready to start laying track for my first Z scale layout and could use any suggestions anyone
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 9, 2006
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              Has anyone been using AMI Instant Roadbed in Z scale? Getting ready to
              start laying track for my first Z scale layout and could use any
              suggestions anyone might have.

              Thanks,

              Charles
            • Paul Hertel
              I have used AMI on my module and in my cigar box. I like it a lot. I have HO scale and it worked great for the double lines. For single it needs to be cut.
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 9, 2006
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                I have used AMI on my module and in my cigar box. I like it a lot. I have
                HO scale and it worked great for the double lines. For single it needs to
                be cut.
                For my cigar box, I cut it in thirds and it looks good. For my layout I
                will try N scale cut in half. It's easy to use. It's sticky on both sides.
                Stays where you put it and holds track ballast very well. You can mold it a
                bit to flatten the edges so it appears more realistic and can be painted
                with acrylics.
                It can be curved with ease.
                We have a Reverend in our club the MidweZt HaulerZ.

                Happy Z'ing
                Paul
                Berger Meister, Hertzberg.
                Car A
                MidweZt HaulerZ
                Belleville, IL
                www.midwezthaulerz.com <blocked::http://www.midwezthaulerz.com>



                .

                <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=229250/grpspId=1601533816/msgId=
                47759/stime=1160421399/nc1=3848615/nc2=3848446/nc3=3848527>



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Larry Donsbach
                I have not used the AMI as much as I am going to in the future but I have found one thing about it, it sure cuts down of the drum effect that is produced when
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 9, 2006
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                  I have not used the AMI as much as I am going to in the future but I
                  have found one thing about it, it sure cuts down of the drum effect that
                  is produced when you glue cork roadbed to thin plywood. In addition, I
                  have been considering using a thin piece of it to dampen the vibration
                  of the new MTL track on plywood.

                  The Ttrak Z modules that I have currently use the 195mm R track and
                  Marklin 220MM R. I have noticed a really big diffenence in sound
                  deadening using the AMI under the Marklin track. I think that I will be
                  using a lot of the AMI in the future for its sound deadening qualities.

                  Larry D
                  San Antonio



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Thomas Welsch
                  Hello Charles, Paul has already told you about the advantages of AMI Instant Roadbed. I confess, I suggested it since I ve been using it for a long time. All
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 9, 2006
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                    Hello Charles,

                    Paul has already told you about the advantages of AMI Instant Roadbed.
                    I confess, I suggested it since I've been using it for a long time. All
                    of the modules the MidweZt HaulerZ currently display use it for roads
                    and parking lots as well as roadbed. It's flexible, holds track and
                    ballast well, and the track can be re-positioned fairly easily if it
                    hasn't been pressed down too firmly or been there for a long time. You
                    can see it in the pics of my modules here.
                    <http://mysite.verizon.net/res0yju3/id9>

                    Keep ThoZe TrainZ Rollin'
                    Thom Welsch
                    MidweZt HaulreZ


                    Has anyone been using AMI Instant Roadbed in Z scale? Getting ready to
                    > start laying track for my first Z scale layout and could use any
                    > suggestions anyone might have.
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    >
                    > Charles
                    >
                  • Thomas Welsch
                    I hate it when links don t work....try this Thom Welsch
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 9, 2006
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                      I hate it when links don't work....try this

                      <http://mysite.verizon.net/res0yju3/id9.html>

                      Thom Welsch
                    • Allan Borg
                      I have also used this product to lay track. When I placed the bed on the ground surface I used some Liquid Nails to glue it down so that I didn t have to press
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 9, 2006
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                        I have also used this product to lay track. When I placed the bed on
                        the ground surface I used some Liquid Nails to glue it down so that I
                        didn't have to press hard on a piece of delicate foam. I also glued
                        the track down the same. On the edges I took an Exacto blade and
                        beveled the bed so make it even on both sides. At this point I took
                        the finest ballast and sprinkled it all over the bed and track and
                        pressed it into the gummy material. Once I was satisfied with the
                        appearance I then took a Dust Buster vac to the remaining loose
                        ballast and salvaged the unused portion. This process has to be done
                        all in the same day or else your AMI bed will start to get hard and
                        lose it's flexibility and wond accept the ballast.
                        Allan Borg
                        --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Welsch" <rvn20012000@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Charles,
                        >
                        > Paul has already told you about the advantages of AMI Instant Roadbed.
                        > I confess, I suggested it since I've been using it for a long time. All
                        > of the modules the MidweZt HaulerZ currently display use it for roads
                        > and parking lots as well as roadbed. It's flexible, holds track and
                        > ballast well, and the track can be re-positioned fairly easily if it
                        > hasn't been pressed down too firmly or been there for a long time. You
                        > can see it in the pics of my modules here.
                        > <http://mysite.verizon.net/res0yju3/id9>
                        >
                        > Keep ThoZe TrainZ Rollin'
                        > Thom Welsch
                        > MidweZt HaulreZ
                        >
                        >
                        > Has anyone been using AMI Instant Roadbed in Z scale? Getting ready to
                        > > start laying track for my first Z scale layout and could use any
                        > > suggestions anyone might have.
                        > >
                        > > Thanks,
                        > >
                        > > Charles
                        > >
                        >
                      • afazzara
                        What is the preferred roadbed for z scale? Cork? Woodland Scenic roadbed? None? I had cork roadbed on my HO set when I was a kid (my dad and I never ballasted
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 6
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                          What is the preferred roadbed for z scale? Cork? Woodland Scenic roadbed? None? I had cork roadbed on my HO set when I was a kid (my dad and I never ballasted it) and it was easy to use and gave good sound dampening from the plywood base. I plan on ballasting my z scale layout and the base will be a mix of plywood and plaster/foam.


                          Anthony

                        • jamesmacburney
                          Anthony, The ZoCal group uses on our Z-Bend modules Neoprene & Cork Strip Gasket, 1/8 Thick, 1 Width, 100 Length from McMaster-Carr. I cut mine on a Mat
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 6
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                            Anthony,
                            The ZoCal group uses on our Z-Bend modules Neoprene & Cork Strip Gasket, 1/8" Thick, 1" Width, 100' Length from McMaster-Carr.  I cut mine on a Mat Cutter with a 45degree cutter.  Works great even on curves.
                            James
                          • de Champeaux Dominique
                            Cork from IBL for me. Dom De : afazzara@yahoo.com [z_scale] À : z_scale@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Vendredi 6 février 2015
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 7
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                              Cork from IBL for me. *;) Clin d’œil
                              Dom


                              De : "afazzara@... [z_scale]" <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                              À : z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                              Envoyé le : Vendredi 6 février 2015 19h31
                              Objet : [Z_Scale] roadbed

                               
                              What is the preferred roadbed for z scale? Cork? Woodland Scenic roadbed? None? I had cork roadbed on my HO set when I was a kid (my dad and I never ballasted it) and it was easy to use and gave good sound dampening from the plywood base. I plan on ballasting my z scale layout and the base will be a mix of plywood and plaster/foam.

                              Anthony


                            • Ken Armstrong
                              Some recent articles for HO and N scales suggest using two layers of material in the roadbed for best sound deadening. The best combination seemed to be foam
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 7
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                                Some recent articles for HO and N scales suggest using two layers of
                                material in the roadbed for best sound deadening. The best combination
                                seemed to be foam tape with cork on top. The foam tape used was "campers
                                tape" which is slightly less dense than the Scotch sticky foam tape.
                                Other good materials were homosote (which is ground up compressed paper)
                                and auto foam tape for sound insulation. In N scale I have used cork
                                roadbed over picture framing matboard (dense paper sheet) or craft foam
                                sheeting which both do well on extruded foam scenery. I like Woodland
                                Scenics scenery glue to hold it down but there are cheaper brands. Most
                                of this material is available over the web at reasonable or even cheap
                                prices. Try Tape.com for starters.
                                Ken Armstrong
                                Irmo, SC
                              • robertallbritton
                                I can tell you the LOUDEST combination is track glued directly onto pink foam board. Been there - done that.
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 7
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                                  I can tell you the LOUDEST combination is track glued directly onto pink foam board.

                                  Been there - done that.
                                • ellgeib
                                  Homosote can be a good material. I have a 48 inch by 21 inch portable layout I bought from a friend about 25 years ago. He used 1/2 inch thick Homosote for the
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 8
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                                    Homosote can be a good material. I have a 48 inch by 21 inch portable layout I bought from a friend about 25 years ago. He used 1/2 inch thick Homosote for the base and simply tacked Marklin track to it with small pins. The vast majority of pins are still holding well. I hauled this layout back and forth to two train shows each year for about 15 years and stored it in a garage. It is a paper product and should be somewhat sensitive to humidity changes, but I haven't noticed any problem. It is heavy though. I built a 2nd portable layout, 48 inches by 24 inches, using 3/4 inch Homosote for the base (it's all I could find locally). That layout was a bear to carry - way too heavy. I rebuilt it using foam board and cut the weight by many pounds.

                                    I wouldn't recommend Homosote for a portable layout. It does have some good properties for use on a permanent layout. I don't know if it comes thinner than 1/2 inch. That's pretty thick for z-scale roadbed. And it would require a lot of trimming for the sloped edges. It does have excellent holding power and sound deadening qualities. I know a number of years back that those qualities made it popular, at least for a while, in HO scale.

                                    Ell Geib
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