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Re: roadbed

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  • Jeffrey MacHan
    Hi Dale, You ll find that this question has come up several times for discussion. You can get a full listing of messages from the archive that have some
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 1, 2001
      Hi Dale,

      You'll find that this question has come up several times for
      discussion. You can get a full listing of messages from the
      archive that have some bearing on your question by using the
      "search" function on our message archive.

      I just tried it using the search for "cork roadbed". There were a
      number of relevant answers. Don't overlook the arrow at the
      bottom of the page to continue your search to the beginning of
      the message archive.

      Cheers,
      Jeffrey


      --- In z_scale@egroups.com, Dale Halterman <dnhalt@m...>
      wrote:
      > Hello, I am going to start constuction on my layout soon. It is
      going to
      > be 40in by 8 ft. I am planning to use a base of 2inch foam
      topped by 1/2
      > in. high density foam board using the cookie cutter technique
      for the
      > elevations. I am trying to decide whether ornot to use cork
      roadbedover
      > the foam or mount the track directly to the foam.
      > I would like to have some opinions pro or con on each
      procedure
      > Thanks, Dale
    • bjkronen@aol.com
      ... Excellent !!! Take pictures of your progress. ... I ll take a shot. Without cork: 1. Does not look prototypical. 2. Track directly on foam is LOUD. You
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 1, 2001
        Dale:

        > Hello, I am going to start constuction on my layout soon.

        Excellent !!! Take pictures of your progress.

        > I am trying to decide whether ornot to use cork roadbedover
        > I would like to have some opinions pro or con on each procedure

        I'll take a shot.

        Without cork:

        1. Does not look prototypical.
        2. Track directly on foam is LOUD. You may was well run your trains on the
        back of a violin sound chamber.
        3. You may find that you have to use glues that will not dissolve in water,
        if you change your idea on track location, or expansions, later.
        4. Would save a small amount of time to leave out the cork.
        5. An electric foam cutter could be made to simulate the profile of cork
        roadbed, but the top of the roadbed would never be "above grade" compared to
        the rest of the layout.

        With cork:

        1. Looks "right"
        2. Z cork is expensive but looks nice, N scale cord is cheap but has to be
        cut down in width, cutting from sheets of cork is time consuming.
        3. White glue (and other forgiving glues) can hold the track to the cork and
        cork to the foam for water release for repairs and expansions later.
        4. Gives you something to ballast. Ballast without a "roadbed" shape may be
        questionable to the eye (i.e., everything looks like a branch spur, not a
        mainline)
        5. One commonly forgotten aspect of roadbeds is that they always have
        drainage ditches next to the right of way. With roadbed, and a foam base, it
        would take almost nothing to scribe in a ditch next to the roadbed edge.
        Nice touch, I think.

        Life as seen though one set of eyes. Other thoughts out there?

        Regards,
        Bill Kronenberger
        Houston
      • Bill Hoshiko
        ... Bill is right. Go out and look at some full size RR tracks. If you are modeling mainlines go look at mainlines. Same for yards or branch lines. You must
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 1, 2001
          bjkronen@... wrote:
          >
          > Dale:
          >
          > > Hello, I am going to start constuction on my layout soon.
          >
          > Excellent !!! Take pictures of your progress.
          >
          > >>
          > With cork:
          >
          > 1. Looks "right"
          >
          > 5. One commonly forgotten aspect of roadbeds is that they always have
          > drainage ditches next to the right of way. With roadbed, and a foam
          > base, it would take almost nothing to scribe in a ditch next to the roadbed edge.
          >
          > Life as seen though one set of eyes. Other thoughts out there?
          >
          > Regards,
          > Bill Kronenberger
          > Houston
          >

          Bill is right. Go out and look at some full size RR tracks. If you are
          modeling mainlines go look at mainlines. Same for yards or branch
          lines.

          You must look at both the track and the area adjacent to the tracks.
          You can recognize where the railroad track property ends and the
          neighboring non railroad property begins. Your model track should
          include all of this. You will probably have to compress your model
          because actual RR track including the drainage ditches, cuts and fills
          take a lot of space.

          The problem with model railroaders is that they copy what other modelers
          do and seldom go out and examine what the real RR's do. Take pictures
          of what you see and use them as reference to build your model track.

          If you are contemplating a fairly large Z scale layout you can take
          advantage of your space and build some truly realistic railroad right of
          way.

          The guys who model in the gigantic scales complain the Z scale lacks
          details. For Z scale we can add details that the big clumsies leave
          out.

          And, try not to lay your railroad ties directly on your base board. Use
          some type of road bed. Almost all track is raised above the surrounding
          area because of drainage. If you use a substantial roadbed you can use
          it to start grades. You can use a thinner roadbed to model sidings and
          yards, for they are almost always lower in elevation than the mainline.

          Your base board is the absolute bottom level of your scenery. Rivers or
          lakes may be lower but you must cut those out. Roads, houses and
          buildings should be made on separate baseboards. Imagine if it should
          rain on your layout. Where would all the water go. Would the homes
          and business on your layout be flooded.

          This may sound picky but it will improve the looks of your railroad.
          Maybe YOUR should be capitalzed.


          Bill
          El Toro
        • D. A. Karp
          Here s something I wrote about cork roadbed and ballast that might help: http://www.creativelement.com/z/articles/ballast.html ...
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 1, 2001
            Here's something I wrote about cork roadbed and ballast that might help:
            http://www.creativelement.com/z/articles/ballast.html



            At 08:33 PM 1/1/2001 -0500, you wrote:
            >Hello, I am going to start constuction on my layout soon. It is going to
            >be 40in by 8 ft. I am planning to use a base of 2inch foam topped by 1/2
            >in. high density foam board using the cookie cutter technique for the
            >elevations. I am trying to decide whether ornot to use cork roadbedover
            >the foam or mount the track directly to the foam.
            >I would like to have some opinions pro or con on each procedure
            >Thanks, Dale

            ___________________________________________
            http://www.creativelement.com/z/
          • Jeffrey MacHan
            ... going to ... by 1/2 ... the ... roadbedover ... Hi Dale, I like both approaches and have used them successfully on the Val Ease Central. I have no
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 2, 2001
              --- In z_scale@egroups.com, Dale Halterman <dnhalt@m...> wrote:
              > Hello, I am going to start constuction on my layout soon. It is
              going to
              > be 40in by 8 ft. I am planning to use a base of 2inch foam topped
              by 1/2
              > in. high density foam board using the cookie cutter technique for
              the
              > elevations. I am trying to decide whether ornot to use cork
              roadbedover
              > the foam or mount the track directly to the foam.
              > I would like to have some opinions pro or con on each procedure
              > Thanks, Dale

              Hi Dale,

              I like both approaches and have used them successfully on the Val
              Ease Central. I have no particular preference.

              Now, if I were to begin a modest new layout, I would probably use
              cork. However, on a large layout with long runs of mainline, I would
              be tempted to lay the track on the foam and carve landscape features
              (I like to save a few bucks here and there, symbolically of
              course!).

              Everything my associates have contributed to this thread is valid. I
              think the sound deadening argument in favour of cork gives it an edge
              over foam. Another consideration that I just thought of is, if
              someone asked me to build a layout for them, what would I choose?
              Answer: cork, no question!

              Have fun with whatever you choose, or do both and see
              what you prefer.

              Cheers,
              Jeffrey
            • Rev. Charles Hanna
              Has anyone been using AMI Instant Roadbed in Z scale? Getting ready to start laying track for my first Z scale layout and could use any suggestions anyone
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 9, 2006
                Has anyone been using AMI Instant Roadbed in Z scale? Getting ready to
                start laying track for my first Z scale layout and could use any
                suggestions anyone might have.

                Thanks,

                Charles
              • Paul Hertel
                I have used AMI on my module and in my cigar box. I like it a lot. I have HO scale and it worked great for the double lines. For single it needs to be cut.
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 9, 2006
                  I have used AMI on my module and in my cigar box. I like it a lot. I have
                  HO scale and it worked great for the double lines. For single it needs to
                  be cut.
                  For my cigar box, I cut it in thirds and it looks good. For my layout I
                  will try N scale cut in half. It's easy to use. It's sticky on both sides.
                  Stays where you put it and holds track ballast very well. You can mold it a
                  bit to flatten the edges so it appears more realistic and can be painted
                  with acrylics.
                  It can be curved with ease.
                  We have a Reverend in our club the MidweZt HaulerZ.

                  Happy Z'ing
                  Paul
                  Berger Meister, Hertzberg.
                  Car A
                  MidweZt HaulerZ
                  Belleville, IL
                  www.midwezthaulerz.com <blocked::http://www.midwezthaulerz.com>



                  .

                  <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=229250/grpspId=1601533816/msgId=
                  47759/stime=1160421399/nc1=3848615/nc2=3848446/nc3=3848527>



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Larry Donsbach
                  I have not used the AMI as much as I am going to in the future but I have found one thing about it, it sure cuts down of the drum effect that is produced when
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 9, 2006
                    I have not used the AMI as much as I am going to in the future but I
                    have found one thing about it, it sure cuts down of the drum effect that
                    is produced when you glue cork roadbed to thin plywood. In addition, I
                    have been considering using a thin piece of it to dampen the vibration
                    of the new MTL track on plywood.

                    The Ttrak Z modules that I have currently use the 195mm R track and
                    Marklin 220MM R. I have noticed a really big diffenence in sound
                    deadening using the AMI under the Marklin track. I think that I will be
                    using a lot of the AMI in the future for its sound deadening qualities.

                    Larry D
                    San Antonio



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Thomas Welsch
                    Hello Charles, Paul has already told you about the advantages of AMI Instant Roadbed. I confess, I suggested it since I ve been using it for a long time. All
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 9, 2006
                      Hello Charles,

                      Paul has already told you about the advantages of AMI Instant Roadbed.
                      I confess, I suggested it since I've been using it for a long time. All
                      of the modules the MidweZt HaulerZ currently display use it for roads
                      and parking lots as well as roadbed. It's flexible, holds track and
                      ballast well, and the track can be re-positioned fairly easily if it
                      hasn't been pressed down too firmly or been there for a long time. You
                      can see it in the pics of my modules here.
                      <http://mysite.verizon.net/res0yju3/id9>

                      Keep ThoZe TrainZ Rollin'
                      Thom Welsch
                      MidweZt HaulreZ


                      Has anyone been using AMI Instant Roadbed in Z scale? Getting ready to
                      > start laying track for my first Z scale layout and could use any
                      > suggestions anyone might have.
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      >
                      > Charles
                      >
                    • Thomas Welsch
                      I hate it when links don t work....try this Thom Welsch
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 9, 2006
                        I hate it when links don't work....try this

                        <http://mysite.verizon.net/res0yju3/id9.html>

                        Thom Welsch
                      • Allan Borg
                        I have also used this product to lay track. When I placed the bed on the ground surface I used some Liquid Nails to glue it down so that I didn t have to press
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 9, 2006
                          I have also used this product to lay track. When I placed the bed on
                          the ground surface I used some Liquid Nails to glue it down so that I
                          didn't have to press hard on a piece of delicate foam. I also glued
                          the track down the same. On the edges I took an Exacto blade and
                          beveled the bed so make it even on both sides. At this point I took
                          the finest ballast and sprinkled it all over the bed and track and
                          pressed it into the gummy material. Once I was satisfied with the
                          appearance I then took a Dust Buster vac to the remaining loose
                          ballast and salvaged the unused portion. This process has to be done
                          all in the same day or else your AMI bed will start to get hard and
                          lose it's flexibility and wond accept the ballast.
                          Allan Borg
                          --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Welsch" <rvn20012000@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello Charles,
                          >
                          > Paul has already told you about the advantages of AMI Instant Roadbed.
                          > I confess, I suggested it since I've been using it for a long time. All
                          > of the modules the MidweZt HaulerZ currently display use it for roads
                          > and parking lots as well as roadbed. It's flexible, holds track and
                          > ballast well, and the track can be re-positioned fairly easily if it
                          > hasn't been pressed down too firmly or been there for a long time. You
                          > can see it in the pics of my modules here.
                          > <http://mysite.verizon.net/res0yju3/id9>
                          >
                          > Keep ThoZe TrainZ Rollin'
                          > Thom Welsch
                          > MidweZt HaulreZ
                          >
                          >
                          > Has anyone been using AMI Instant Roadbed in Z scale? Getting ready to
                          > > start laying track for my first Z scale layout and could use any
                          > > suggestions anyone might have.
                          > >
                          > > Thanks,
                          > >
                          > > Charles
                          > >
                          >
                        • afazzara
                          What is the preferred roadbed for z scale? Cork? Woodland Scenic roadbed? None? I had cork roadbed on my HO set when I was a kid (my dad and I never ballasted
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 6, 2015

                            What is the preferred roadbed for z scale? Cork? Woodland Scenic roadbed? None? I had cork roadbed on my HO set when I was a kid (my dad and I never ballasted it) and it was easy to use and gave good sound dampening from the plywood base. I plan on ballasting my z scale layout and the base will be a mix of plywood and plaster/foam.


                            Anthony

                          • jamesmacburney
                            Anthony, The ZoCal group uses on our Z-Bend modules Neoprene & Cork Strip Gasket, 1/8 Thick, 1 Width, 100 Length from McMaster-Carr. I cut mine on a Mat
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 6, 2015
                              Anthony,
                              The ZoCal group uses on our Z-Bend modules Neoprene & Cork Strip Gasket, 1/8" Thick, 1" Width, 100' Length from McMaster-Carr.  I cut mine on a Mat Cutter with a 45degree cutter.  Works great even on curves.
                              James
                            • de Champeaux Dominique
                              Cork from IBL for me. Dom De : afazzara@yahoo.com [z_scale] À : z_scale@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Vendredi 6 février 2015
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 7, 2015
                                Cork from IBL for me. *;) Clin d’œil
                                Dom


                                De : "afazzara@... [z_scale]" <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
                                À : z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                                Envoyé le : Vendredi 6 février 2015 19h31
                                Objet : [Z_Scale] roadbed

                                 
                                What is the preferred roadbed for z scale? Cork? Woodland Scenic roadbed? None? I had cork roadbed on my HO set when I was a kid (my dad and I never ballasted it) and it was easy to use and gave good sound dampening from the plywood base. I plan on ballasting my z scale layout and the base will be a mix of plywood and plaster/foam.

                                Anthony


                              • Ken Armstrong
                                Some recent articles for HO and N scales suggest using two layers of material in the roadbed for best sound deadening. The best combination seemed to be foam
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 7, 2015
                                  Some recent articles for HO and N scales suggest using two layers of
                                  material in the roadbed for best sound deadening. The best combination
                                  seemed to be foam tape with cork on top. The foam tape used was "campers
                                  tape" which is slightly less dense than the Scotch sticky foam tape.
                                  Other good materials were homosote (which is ground up compressed paper)
                                  and auto foam tape for sound insulation. In N scale I have used cork
                                  roadbed over picture framing matboard (dense paper sheet) or craft foam
                                  sheeting which both do well on extruded foam scenery. I like Woodland
                                  Scenics scenery glue to hold it down but there are cheaper brands. Most
                                  of this material is available over the web at reasonable or even cheap
                                  prices. Try Tape.com for starters.
                                  Ken Armstrong
                                  Irmo, SC
                                • robertallbritton
                                  I can tell you the LOUDEST combination is track glued directly onto pink foam board. Been there - done that.
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 7, 2015
                                    I can tell you the LOUDEST combination is track glued directly onto pink foam board.

                                    Been there - done that.
                                  • ellgeib
                                    Homosote can be a good material. I have a 48 inch by 21 inch portable layout I bought from a friend about 25 years ago. He used 1/2 inch thick Homosote for the
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Feb 8, 2015
                                      Homosote can be a good material. I have a 48 inch by 21 inch portable layout I bought from a friend about 25 years ago. He used 1/2 inch thick Homosote for the base and simply tacked Marklin track to it with small pins. The vast majority of pins are still holding well. I hauled this layout back and forth to two train shows each year for about 15 years and stored it in a garage. It is a paper product and should be somewhat sensitive to humidity changes, but I haven't noticed any problem. It is heavy though. I built a 2nd portable layout, 48 inches by 24 inches, using 3/4 inch Homosote for the base (it's all I could find locally). That layout was a bear to carry - way too heavy. I rebuilt it using foam board and cut the weight by many pounds.

                                      I wouldn't recommend Homosote for a portable layout. It does have some good properties for use on a permanent layout. I don't know if it comes thinner than 1/2 inch. That's pretty thick for z-scale roadbed. And it would require a lot of trimming for the sloped edges. It does have excellent holding power and sound deadening qualities. I know a number of years back that those qualities made it popular, at least for a while, in HO scale.

                                      Ell Geib
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