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Z scale and "accurate" rail

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  • Scott
    Be careful what you wish for.................... Remember that from Lt Uhura in ST:4? Yes low profile rail would be nice, but it s not going to be cheap! I
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 29, 2004
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      Be careful what you wish for....................
      Remember that from Lt Uhura in ST:4? Yes low profile rail
      would be nice, but it's not going to be cheap!
      I belong to an H.O. club but model in Z at home.
      Some members are so picky about the track and maintaining
      it that the operating session becomes a non-operating
      session due to two hours of fine tuning. Members who
      actually want to RUN trains throw up their hands and leave.
      On my layout the Marklin turnouts have a few kinks, some engines
      make it thru every time, some de-rail.
      I've learned which engines to run in which direction.
      I also see where prices go up in other scales the more detail
      is involved. Some of my more expensive Z scale trains I bought
      due to the memories of trains I've seen in videos and museums,
      other are tough little runners i.e. Marklin cars.
      I think we all can agree that we love trains and small precision
      engineering, and compared to what are grandfathers had in the
      1950's we are blessed. Though what I've seen in those old
      Model Railroaders from the '50's they had FUN too! ;)
    • bill.foote
      Absolutely right Bill Foote (http://freespace.virgin.net/bill.foote), who was already playing trains in the 1950s ... From: Scott
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 29, 2004
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        Absolutely right

        Bill Foote (http://freespace.virgin.net/bill.foote), who was already playing
        trains in the 1950s


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Scott" <scott_lee11@...>

        > I think we all can agree that we love trains and small precision
        > engineering, and compared to what are grandfathers had in the
        > 1950's we are blessed. Though what I've seen in those old
        > Model Railroaders from the '50's they had FUN too! ;)
      • Adrian T. Wymann
        Ah yes, the question of scale rail appearance... Now I ve been through that one in 00/H0 and N too, and I ve found that it really rests on how much you re
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 31, 2004
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          Ah yes, the question of "scale rail" appearance...

          Now I've been through that one in 00/H0 and N too, and I've found
          that it really rests on how much you're willing to do once you've
          laid the track. Careful weathering and ballasting will often do more
          for an appearance which "looks right" than just slapping down rails
          with a smaller code designation. The idea is to blend the track into
          the scenery, so that even oversize rails won't stick out that much.

          Most importantly, however, I feel one aspect shouldn't be forgotten:
          what looks right also depends on what kind of track you're
          modelling. Modern mainline track in Switzerland, for examnple, is a
          sturdy affair, as it is supposed to support some fairly intensive
          and fairly high-speed train services. I don't feel Marklin track
          looks that bad for this kind of track, if given some treatment.

          On the other hand, if you're modelling some of the trackage I've
          seen in the US - well okay, different story. But then how do you
          replicate the wobble of the train without derailment on code 40
          track? It's like the announcer said at Boston Station - "next train
          track 5 - I guess" ;-)

          cheerZ

          Adrian

          ---> Swiss Federal Railways 1:220 <---
          http://www.wymann.info/SBB_miniclub
        • Reynard Wellman
          Hi Adrian, I ve worked along modern track when we were building the B.A.R.T. (Bay Area Rapid Transit) in Northern Calif. and while you are correct that there
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 31, 2004
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            Hi Adrian,

            I've worked along modern track when we were building
            the B.A.R.T. (Bay Area Rapid Transit) in Northern Calif.
            and while you are correct that there are some uses for
            large cross section track where high speeds, weather
            and average car weight must enter the equation, I do
            not see the need for the huge black boxes alongside
            Marklin turnouts. They are simply not prototypical in any
            nation.

            You are right about our deteriorating US rail and roadbed,
            but many of these ROWs (Right of Way) are over a hundred years old,
            engineered when trains ran slower and carried less than
            half the weight per axle that they do today. The anti train
            lobby in the US has seen to it that almost no tax dollars
            go to improving these ROWs. Old trackage is being pulled up
            and the ROWs are being used to build bicycle paths or to
            fatten up our already obese and gluttonous highways.

            No, I will not simulate in my code 40, the modern "wobble" that
            you see when freight trains pass at grade . I prefer to
            model a more idealized railway; what should have been
            rather than what I am ashamed to see happening today.

            regards,
            Reynard
            On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 05:27 AM, Adrian T. Wymann wrote:

            > Ah yes, the question of "scale rail" appearance...
            >
            > Now I've been through that one in 00/H0 and N too, and I've found
            > that it really rests on how much you're willing to do once you've
            > laid the track. Careful weathering and ballasting will often do more
            > for an appearance which "looks right" than just slapping down rails
            > with a smaller code designation. The idea is to blend the track into
            > the scenery, so that even oversize rails won't stick out that much.
            >
            > Most importantly, however, I feel one aspect shouldn't be forgotten:
            > what looks right also depends on what kind of track you're
            > modelling. Modern mainline track in Switzerland, for examnple, is a
            > sturdy affair, as it is supposed to support some fairly intensive
            > and fairly high-speed train services. I don't feel Marklin track
            > looks that bad for this kind of track, if given some treatment.
            >
            > On the other hand, if you're modelling some of the trackage I've
            > seen in the US - well okay, different story. But then how do you
            > replicate the wobble of the train without derailment on code 40
            > track? It's like the announcer said at Boston Station - "next train
            > track 5 - I guess" ;-)
            >
            > cheerZ
            >
            > Adrian
            >
            > ---> Swiss Federal Railways 1:220 <---
            > http://www.wymann.info/SBB_miniclub
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE!� Highly addictive in Small
            > DoseZ!
            >
            >
            >
            <image.tiff>
            >
            >
            <image.tiff>
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale/
            > �
            > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > z_scale-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > �
            > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bill Powers
            Reynard, AMEN. Bill ... From: Reynard Wellman To: Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 8:12 AM Subject: Re:
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 31, 2004
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              Reynard, AMEN. Bill
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Reynard Wellman" <micron@...>
              To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 8:12 AM
              Subject: Re: [z_scale] Re: Z scale and "accurate" rail


              Hi Adrian,

              I've worked along modern track when we were building
              the B.A.R.T. (Bay Area Rapid Transit) in Northern Calif.
              and while you are correct that there are some uses for
              large cross section track where high speeds, weather
              and average car weight must enter the equation, I do
              not see the need for the huge black boxes alongside
              Marklin turnouts. They are simply not prototypical in any
              nation.

              You are right about our deteriorating US rail and roadbed,
              but many of these ROWs (Right of Way) are over a hundred years old,
              engineered when trains ran slower and carried less than
              half the weight per axle that they do today. The anti train
              lobby in the US has seen to it that almost no tax dollars
              go to improving these ROWs. Old trackage is being pulled up
              and the ROWs are being used to build bicycle paths or to
              fatten up our already obese and gluttonous highways.

              No, I will not simulate in my code 40, the modern "wobble" that
              you see when freight trains pass at grade . I prefer to
              model a more idealized railway; what should have been
              rather than what I am ashamed to see happening today.

              regards,
              Reynard
              On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 05:27 AM, Adrian T. Wymann wrote:

              > Ah yes, the question of "scale rail" appearance...
              >
              > Now I've been through that one in 00/H0 and N too, and I've found
              > that it really rests on how much you're willing to do once you've
              > laid the track. Careful weathering and ballasting will often do more
              > for an appearance which "looks right" than just slapping down rails
              > with a smaller code designation. The idea is to blend the track into
              > the scenery, so that even oversize rails won't stick out that much.
              >
              > Most importantly, however, I feel one aspect shouldn't be forgotten:
              > what looks right also depends on what kind of track you're
              > modelling. Modern mainline track in Switzerland, for examnple, is a
              > sturdy affair, as it is supposed to support some fairly intensive
              > and fairly high-speed train services. I don't feel Marklin track
              > looks that bad for this kind of track, if given some treatment.
              >
              > On the other hand, if you're modelling some of the trackage I've
              > seen in the US - well okay, different story. But then how do you
              > replicate the wobble of the train without derailment on code 40
              > track? It's like the announcer said at Boston Station - "next train
              > track 5 - I guess" ;-)
              >
              > cheerZ
              >
              > Adrian
              >
              > ---> Swiss Federal Railways 1:220 <---
              > http://www.wymann.info/SBB_miniclub
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small
              > DoseZ!
              >
              >
              >
              <image.tiff>
              >
              >
              <image.tiff>
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > . To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale/
              >
              > . To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > z_scale-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > . Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!

              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Reynard Wellman
              Hello again Adrian, BTW, I found your note to be very funny too! I about fell out of my chair laughing at the wobble and the Boston Station quote. Keep it
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 31, 2004
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                Hello again Adrian,

                BTW, I found your note to be very funny too! I about fell
                out of my chair laughing at the "wobble" and the Boston Station quote.
                Keep it up! We need to laugh at some of this overly serious
                worry about rail appearance. After all, these are model trains!

                regards,
                Reynard
                On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 05:27 AM, Adrian T. Wymann wrote:

                > Ah yes, the question of "scale rail" appearance...
                >
                > Now I've been through that one in 00/H0 and N too, and I've found
                > that it really rests on how much you're willing to do once you've
                > laid the track. Careful weathering and ballasting will often do more
                > for an appearance which "looks right" than just slapping down rails
                > with a smaller code designation. The idea is to blend the track into
                > the scenery, so that even oversize rails won't stick out that much.
                >
                > Most importantly, however, I feel one aspect shouldn't be forgotten:
                > what looks right also depends on what kind of track you're
                > modelling. Modern mainline track in Switzerland, for examnple, is a
                > sturdy affair, as it is supposed to support some fairly intensive
                > and fairly high-speed train services. I don't feel Marklin track
                > looks that bad for this kind of track, if given some treatment.
                >
                > On the other hand, if you're modelling some of the trackage I've
                > seen in the US - well okay, different story. But then how do you
                > replicate the wobble of the train without derailment on code 40
                > track? It's like the announcer said at Boston Station - "next train
                > track 5 - I guess" ;-)
                >
                > cheerZ
                >
                > Adrian
                >
                > ---> Swiss Federal Railways 1:220 <---
                > http://www.wymann.info/SBB_miniclub
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE!� Highly addictive in Small
                > DoseZ!
                >
                >
                >
                <image.tiff>
                >
                >
                <image.tiff>
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale/
                > �
                > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > z_scale-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > �
                > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Adrian T. Wymann
                Reynard You re perfectly right, of course, concerning those huge black boxes next to Marklin switches - that s probably why I m so keen on point- less track
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 31, 2004
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                  Reynard

                  You're perfectly right, of course, concerning those huge black boxes
                  next to Marklin switches - that's probably why I'm so keen on "point-
                  less" track arrangements in Z... ;-)

                  As for the Boston train announcement and the wobble, I'm glad you
                  saw the funny side, as intended. I got two mails off-group which
                  seemed to think I was trying to put down US railroading. Which of
                  course wasn't the idea at all, so my sincere apologies if others
                  felt that way too. Besides, there's funny things going on
                  everywhere. Not too long ago I was on a Swiss intercity train from
                  Berne to St Gallen which broke the world speed record with a snap as
                  the on-board announcement system went wild and announced all the
                  stops of the entire journey ("we are now arriving...") with only
                  short intervals, condensing an almost 3 hours journey into about two
                  minutes or so. I just hoped there were no tourists on board - just
                  imagine the confusion ;-)

                  cheerZ everybody

                  Adrian

                  --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, Reynard Wellman <micron@m...> wrote:
                  > Hello again Adrian,
                  >
                  > BTW, I found your note to be very funny too! I about fell
                  > out of my chair laughing at the "wobble" and the Boston Station
                  quote.
                  > Keep it up! We need to laugh at some of this overly serious
                  > worry about rail appearance. After all, these are model trains!
                  >
                  > regards,
                  > Reynard
                • de Champeaux Dominique
                  ... Guys, please let me remind you what is showed on David Karp s website: how to remove Marklin Turnouts mechanism. I ve done the same on the small diorama on
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 1, 2004
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                    --- "Adrian T. Wymann" <rail@...> a écrit :
                    >
                    > Reynard
                    >
                    > You're perfectly right, of course, concerning those
                    > huge black boxes
                    > next to Marklin switches

                    Guys, please let me remind you what is showed on David
                    Karp's website: how to remove Marklin Turnouts
                    mechanism.

                    I've done the same on the small diorama on which I'm
                    working, and it's an easy operation. And the look is
                    very, very better: the only heck with these modified
                    turnouts is tie spacing not matching US prototype, but
                    with this it's the same than Marklin / Peco track, and
                    curved rails beyond frog on diverging track (as it is
                    straight on prototype). But anyway like this they have
                    a fair looking.

                    Of course it's a little expensive as you have to
                    replace the original mechanism with a Tortoise or sthg
                    like this, but it's worth to do it.

                    Cheers,

                    Dominique






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                  • Tom Fisher
                    Could you post the URL? ... _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 1, 2004
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                      Could you post the URL?


                      --- de Champeaux Dominique <ddechamp71@...>
                      wrote:

                      > --- "Adrian T. Wymann" <rail@...> a �crit�:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Reynard
                      > >
                      > > You're perfectly right, of course, concerning
                      > those
                      > > huge black boxes
                      > > next to Marklin switches
                      >
                      > Guys, please let me remind you what is showed on
                      > David
                      > Karp's website: how to remove Marklin Turnouts
                      > mechanism.
                      >
                      > I've done the same on the small diorama on which I'm
                      > working, and it's an easy operation. And the look is
                      > very, very better: the only heck with these modified
                      > turnouts is tie spacing not matching US prototype,
                      > but
                      > with this it's the same than Marklin / Peco track,
                      > and
                      > curved rails beyond frog on diverging track (as it
                      > is
                      > straight on prototype). But anyway like this they
                      > have
                      > a fair looking.
                      >
                      > Of course it's a little expensive as you have to
                      > replace the original mechanism with a Tortoise or
                      > sthg
                      > like this, but it's worth to do it.
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      >
                      > Dominique
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Vous manquez d�espace pour stocker vos mails ?
                      > Yahoo! Mail vous offre GRATUITEMENT 100 Mo !
                      > Cr�ez votre Yahoo! Mail sur
                      > http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/
                      >
                      > Le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger est arriv� ! D�couvrez
                      > toutes les nouveaut�s pour dialoguer instantan�ment
                      > avec vos amis. A t�l�charger gratuitement sur
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                      >




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                    • de Champeaux Dominique
                      ... http://www.zscale.org/articles/undertable.html Vous manquez d’espace pour stocker vos mails ? Yahoo! Mail vous offre GRATUITEMENT 100 Mo ! Créez votre
                      Message 10 of 13 , Sep 2, 2004
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                        --- Tom Fisher <tfisher10@...> a écrit :
                        > Could you post the URL?

                        http://www.zscale.org/articles/undertable.html






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                      • Greg McAndrews
                        Hi all, I have had the pleasure of seeing Dominique s diorama and he has made a convert of me. Once you take the knife to those black boxes...you will never
                        Message 11 of 13 , Sep 3, 2004
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                          Hi all,

                          I have had the pleasure of seeing Dominique's diorama and he has made a
                          convert of me.

                          Once you take the "knife" to those black boxes...you will never look
                          back. If you hesitate, practice on some abused turnouts with burned out
                          solenoids.

                          The difference is dramatic. It is a pity that Märklin doesn't just sell
                          the basic turnout without the box.

                          Greg McAndrews

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: de Champeaux Dominique [mailto:ddechamp71@...]
                          Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 6:48 AM
                          To: z_scale@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [z_scale] Re: Z scale and "accurate" rail

                          --- "Adrian T. Wymann" <rail@...> a écrit :
                          >
                          > Reynard
                          >
                          > You're perfectly right, of course, concerning those
                          > huge black boxes
                          > next to Marklin switches

                          Guys, please let me remind you what is showed on David
                          Karp's website: how to remove Marklin Turnouts
                          mechanism.

                          I've done the same on the small diorama on which I'm
                          working, and it's an easy operation. And the look is
                          very, very better: the only heck with these modified
                          turnouts is tie spacing not matching US prototype, but
                          with this it's the same than Marklin / Peco track, and
                          curved rails beyond frog on diverging track (as it is
                          straight on prototype). But anyway like this they have
                          a fair looking.

                          Of course it's a little expensive as you have to
                          replace the original mechanism with a Tortoise or sthg
                          like this, but it's worth to do it.

                          Cheers,

                          Dominique






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                          Le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger est arrivé ! Découvrez toutes les nouveautés
                          pour dialoguer instantanément avec vos amis. A télécharger gratuitement
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                          "Z" WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE! Highly addictive in Small
                          DoseZ!

                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • de Champeaux Dominique
                          ... Thanks for the advertisement Greg! But I don t want to be taken for the Doctor Turnout ! I ve only followed David Karp s instructions. Cheers, Dominique
                          Message 12 of 13 , Sep 3, 2004
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                            --- Greg McAndrews <mcandrew@...> a écrit :
                            > Hi all,
                            >
                            > I have had the pleasure of seeing Dominique's
                            > diorama and he has made a
                            > convert of me.


                            Thanks for the advertisement Greg! But I don't want
                            to be taken for the "Doctor Turnout"! I've only
                            followed David Karp's instructions.
                            Cheers,
                            Dominique






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                          • Torsja
                            After Dominique reminded me of the nice website of David Karp s http://www.zscale.org/articles/undertable.html I decided that the motor on the Marklin Z-Scale
                            Message 13 of 13 , Sep 5, 2004
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                              After Dominique reminded me of the nice website of David Karp's
                              http://www.zscale.org/articles/undertable.html I decided
                              that the motor on the Marklin Z-Scale turnouts is not so pretty. So
                              I went to work on one that was already installed on my Needle Eye
                              ZMOD. I used the knife to cut out the motor from the turnout and
                              pleased it under the layout instead. I think the result was so much
                              better. And it actually was very easy to do this modification. And
                              with use of the original motor from Marklin it is relative cheap to
                              use instead of buying a new turtle motor. Used Markline turnouts are
                              not so hard to by cheap on the internet.

                              I will let the pictures on my website speak for them self.
                              http://194.143.113.189/tjm/

                              regards
                              Torsja - Norway




                              --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, de Champeaux Dominique
                              <ddechamp71@y...> wrote:
                              > --- "Adrian T. Wymann" <rail@w...> a écrit :
                              > >
                              > > Reynard
                              > >
                              > > You're perfectly right, of course, concerning those
                              > > huge black boxes
                              > > next to Marklin switches
                              >
                              > Guys, please let me remind you what is showed on David
                              > Karp's website: how to remove Marklin Turnouts
                              > mechanism.
                              >
                              > I've done the same on the small diorama on which I'm
                              > working, and it's an easy operation. And the look is
                              > very, very better: the only heck with these modified
                              > turnouts is tie spacing not matching US prototype, but
                              > with this it's the same than Marklin / Peco track, and
                              > curved rails beyond frog on diverging track (as it is
                              > straight on prototype). But anyway like this they have
                              > a fair looking.
                              >
                              > Of course it's a little expensive as you have to
                              > replace the original mechanism with a Tortoise or sthg
                              > like this, but it's worth to do it.
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              >
                              > Dominique
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